SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Based on your recent posts, your M has been a sham, you deserve so much better than a proven SERIAL CHEATER and a liar who has been playing russian roulette with your health, file for D and don't look back, life's too short.

People that engage in this level of attention seeking behavior are fundamentally broken...

I don't even want to say she is broken. It's just who she is.

There's a place in this world for people like her, who go around doing the things she did. The problem is when she wants it both ways, being married and being that.

Which role do you think is more true to her fundamental nature? More indispensable?

This one really gets to me. The constant parade of trickle truth is heart wrenching.

It may be possible to find out more of these "revelations" into your wife's character, but I think there's enough coming to light after your last post to get a clear picture that it was more than what she has admitted to. How much more? It will be hard to ever know-- you're going to go nuts trying to get all the answers, that's for certain.

I think it has become clear that this was not, in fact, the best of all possible marriages, and (gently) she was not a safe and trustworthy partner. That concept does not appear to be in her mental makeup. That concept really hurts to realize, and believe me when I say I've been in exactly this situation, myself. It's the realization that she wasn't the person you thought she was-- the point where she goes from paragon to just another flawed, messed up human being, that kind of hurts more than the actual adultery. Of course, the constant lying, gaslighting and trickle truths hurt pretty bad, too.

As people reading your progress have said and will repeat (trust me!), you are seeing who she actually is, vice the woman you thought she was. There was a whole other her she hid from you all those years.. one who could cheat on you effortlessly, who planned to do what she did because.. she wanted to. It's part of her mental makeup. I think you've demonstrated that in your last update-- this goes back a long, long way. It might have been there before you married her and you never knew it. Is she a sex addict? Is she some other kind of addict? Who knows? You know what you know. She IS like this. She IS capable of doing this again.

I've been actively toning down what I call "banging on the divorce drum" on SI and other places, because if it gets said too much, posters get intimidated-- worse, they get the impression SI is only about telling betrayed spouses to divorce. It really isn't. So I'm not going to say "I think it is best for YOU to divorce"-- I CAN say "In your situation, I would already be divorced". Theoretically, Anything is forgivable, and even this situation might be. MIGHT be. I do think the odds are heavily against it happening. This is really her. She's like this. I don't know how, at this age, she could magically transform into another, safer spouse. I suppose it's possible, but the effort would be on her. Do you really think she will make that effort? Based on your updates, I have my doubts. I'm just an internet stranger, though. This one's on you. What do you think?

As is often repeated, but nevertheless true, I send you strength and decisiveness.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 1:01 PM, November 5th (Thursday)]

I've been actively toning down what I call "banging on the divorce drum" on SI and other places, because if it gets said too much, posters get intimidated-- worse, they get the impression SI is only about telling betrayed spouses to divorce. It really isn't. So I'm not going to say "I think it is best for YOU to divorce"-- I CAN say "In your situation, I would already be divorced".

I am trying to do this too, although it may not appear so to some. I don't think SI is about trying to get people to D at all. The JFO forum can be quite triggering to a lot of people still dealing with their own pain. I try to be as objective as possible. That said, I do want to make it clear to the OP that I'm ALWAYS going to lean in the direction of a therapeutic separation at the very least, especially in a circumstance like this. This should be in the range of 30-90 days, but certainly for as long as the BS needs to get their head clear. I feel strongly that getting to safety is imperative and allows the BS to think straight and see their situation more precisely.

Brother Apparition

How are you going?

Buffer, Thank you for asking. I’m going through a wide range of emotions. I’ve made a commitment to “not be pathetic”, hold my head up, exercise, get some work done each day. Discoveries kept coming in an acid drip, so I insisted no more of that until she could get herself together and tell me the entire story. WW is working on that, its going to be a long and complicated story of infidelity and it looks like it will encompass every kind of infidelity possible - online affair, emotional affair, hotel/bar one night stands, Ashley Madison, multiple EM to sex affairs. Its staggering.

I’m really having a hard time finding a story from anyone that had a wife do so much. Not that I haven’t found many horror stories and people in equal pain. I’m not saying mine is worse. I’m going to go through a new D-Day, maybe its the 4th D-Day - hard to count exactly. Then a polygraph to see if it is all out. Then I don’t know exactly, I’m getting comfortable with making no and slow decisions (if you can call chaotic bouts of despair, hurt, and anger “comfort”).

Some fall into the trap of wanting reconciliation so badly they ignore everything. There are signs if you open your eyes.

Repeats happen. 1 year, 5 rears, even 10-15 years after.

Think about having to go through this again.

Appiration,

I’m really having a hard time finding a story from anyone that had a wife do so much.

I come very close. I was married 4 years...almost to the day. 1 month before I married my 1st wife, she cheated on me with my THEN best friend (this is a a thing with her). I didn't find out until about a month AFTER we married. Like a dumbass, I rugswept. A year later, we moved to a small state capital in the deep south with 2 state universities...that's pertinent later. Having very few skills, I worked restaurants, while my wife worked in the state bureaucracy...and fucked her boss...and at leat 10-15 other men that I know of over the next 3 years (I didn't find out about all this shit until we were already divorcing). My evil XWW then moved in with (my next) best friend (fuck I can pick 'em can't I?), and during their 10 year relationship fucked at least 30-40 men that I can pin down! After she got tired of him, she roped in her 3rd victim, and while she's been married to him for 19 years, has fucked around constantly. None of her kids seem to have the same father as they all look different from each other.

It was so bad, I honestly didn't think my daughter was mine! All the rest of my nieces and nephews all look like my 3 brother's and I. It wasn't until I got to meet my sister's daughter (Sister is closest in age to me) that I was shocked, my daughter and niece could be twins. But any way, my XWW is one of the worst women I've ever had the displeasure to ever have to deal with, much less know.

Thankfully, I've been able to move on and put my life back together. Took a while, but I managed to do it...this all took place from 1987-1991 (my 1st marriage), with her other marriages running since then. I was too proud and stupid and stubborn to get help from the county mental health unit and struggled for years after the divorce. OTH, by the time I met my current wife, I'd become a far better man than I was then.

It sucks being tied to a serial, but you can shake it off and escape...it just takes time and effort on your part. You're far better prepared than I was.

Oh Redwing, so sorry. I guess if one goes fishing for horror stories on here, one will catch some real whales. I’m not sure yet how big mine is, it just keeps growing. At some point, betrayal is betrayal and even had it been one affair, I suppose i’d be in the same place.

A number of men who have been crucial to SI's success have R'ed after serial cheating. If you met any of them, you would not doubt their manliness in the least.

R with a serial cheater is possible. But what's relevant to you is whether R is possible with your W, and you know the answer to that question better than any of us.

Buts start with finding out what you want. If you want R, then you need to look at your W as a candidate for R. Right now, keep saving your energy and using it on and for yourself.

I want to second sisoon's thoughts. You will find those for which a ONS is a dealbreaker and others who have been able to successfully R with a serial cheater. First take care of you. Take time to figure out what you want given what you know. Then if you want R focus on whether she is a candidate for successful R. You will get lots of advice on what she should be doing. Good luck.

I have to agree that R with a serial cheater is possible, but the WS would have to be a rare and exemplary individual to make it happen as it is all on them.

Their effort may wax and wane, but the desire to R must be their top priority to succeed.

Apparition,

You wrote, I’m really having a hard time finding a story from anyone that had a wife do so much. Not that I haven’t found many horror stories and people in equal pain. I’m not saying mine is worse.

Yes she seems to hit almost every category of sexual activity. Usually it's WHs who have a list like that. Reading your story I had the same thought you had.

I will say that you didn't say that she does other women so you only have to worry about 1/2 of the worlds population.

I’m really having a hard time finding a story from anyone that had a wife do so much. Not that I haven’t found many horror stories and people in equal pain. I’m not saying mine is worse.

Oh, there's a few horror stories on here that could rival yours. I'm astonished she is being so forthcoming with the timeline. Does she say what motivated her to stop lying to you?

Apparition, sorry what happened to you, you have one of the worst cheating stories I have ever read!

You said:

Apparition:

it will encompass every kind of infidelity possible - online affair, emotional affair, hotel/bar one night stands, Ashley Madison, multiple EM to sex affairs. Its staggering.

I'm sorry, but your WW is not just a serial cheater, she is a free ........ (fill the blanks)!

Apparition:

Then a polygraph to see if it is all out.

Why waste your money on a polygraph? What's the point?!

What difference does it make if she had 15 or 20+ AP and ONS?

Is finding two or three extra AP or sexual encounters matter anymore, or makes a difference after the army of men she slept with?!

Really, think about it!

You already know enough!

Some say:

R with a serial cheater is possible

Really?!!

Seriously?!!

What's wrong with people these days!

Are all the women in the world just vanished, and the cheaters are the only option we've got?!

Hell, even if that was true, being single and going Monk mode is much better and more fulfilling in life!

I would never advice you to R with such cheaters!

Is she the best you can do?!

Aren't you capable of finding a loving, respectful and a faithful women?!

Dude, any women walking across the street right now is literally better than your WW!

I'm worried if you decide to R and stay with a cheater of the worst type is going to destroy you, it will have a huge effect on your mental and physical health!

The last thing you want is to have mental health problems coupled with heart issues and blood pressure and what not, and for what?!

Why are you setting yourself for a world of hurt with this woman?!

Why stay in misery?!

You say you love her, I say: What's love got to do with it?!

Brother, you're old enough to know what's right from wrong, and you're old enough to not play some mental gymnastics games on yourself to convince yourself into staying with this woman and reconciling with her!

Don't deny yourself happiness!

Read my signature!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 3:53 AM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

My Xw was a serial cheater. Did both genders.

I agree with Kaliber. For a person to do this type of shit, it is unimaginable to me that she can ever get healthy. This is extreme deviance.

I would not hire Ted Bundy( if he was alive) to babysit, either.

Apparition,

One way to think of a serial cheater is that they are addicted to having affairs. Just like an alcoholic is an alcoholic for life they will always want an affair and extraordinary precautions need to be taken to prevent relapse.

But you might not want to be a cop for the rest of your WWs or your life.

It's also a big psychological mountain to climb that your WW has had 10 lifetimes of sexual experiences which makes you just 1 out of 150 or however much the number is.

It only makes sense for you to get a clear picture of what divorce would look like.

52 years old, 12 year formal marriage, own business, mixed family (therefore assuming this is both your second marriage)… It makes sense to be clear on how things might go IF this ends in divorce.

What that gives you is a path. It’s like when the first pioneers crossed the Plains; they would send out smaller parties to scout the best route. Sometimes the main group would decide on one route over another, only to find out that it wasn’t the best option. Knowing what divorce is likely to look like gives you immense power and removes fear. This in turn enables you to take a firmer stance on what is required to reconcile.

Yep – believe it or not then UNDERSTANDING divorce can be good for reconciliation. Possibly because it increases the chances of either R or D on the right grounds.

Having said that; your situation definitely is bad. Unlike some users I can’t calibrate infidelity. I cant say that an ONS is 10 pain-points, an EA 3, Madison hookups 7 and so on and give you a pain-score an maybe a Gold Medal for the worst WW on-site. There ARE posters here that have reconciled from serial-cheater infidelity and there are posters that have divorced for what one might consider “less”. It’s all down to what you can do, what you want and what you are offered.

I second the addiction aspect of her infidelity. I am NOT calling her out as a sexual addict, but there is something long-standing and wrong in her behavior. It’s going to take A LOT to change that. A LOT.

Learn about divorce, and when you have that picture you might be in a better place to decide. It might not be what you want, but what you need.

I will say that you didn't say that she does other women so you only have to worry about 1/2 of the worlds population.

I may have to worry about 100% of the population. So far WW admitted to searching for women and talking to one on AM. Most of these "two in the water" statements have resulted in later admissions.

One way to think of a serial cheater is that they are addicted to having affairs. Just like an alcoholic is an alcoholic for life they will always want an affair and extraordinary precautions need to be taken to prevent relapse.

WW meets most of the checklist for sexual addition.

Yep – believe it or not then UNDERSTANDING divorce can be good for reconciliation. Possibly because it increases the chances of either R or D on the right grounds.

I agree and have been considering all the possibilities. I'd be fine financially. I'd be fine as far as women showing interest in me and having a full dating life. I'd be fine as far as finding love again.

Having said that; your situation definitely is bad. Unlike some users I can’t calibrate infidelity. I cant say that an ONS is 10 pain-points, an EA 3, Madison hookups 7 and so on and give you a pain-score an maybe a Gold Medal for the worst WW on-site.

More than 10 AM hookups and many of the hookups became regulars. So that's now news for me. My WW seems to have been trying to win the gold across many competitions.

Does she say what motivated her to stop lying to you?

She says she wants to reconcile. She says the behavior started two years ago. She says she is motivated to save our marriage, but the shame of her activities is making full disclosure difficult. I'd like the polygraph to know the timeline, that's important to me to know when my marriage became a charade. She says she feels shame and remorse and wants to make amends and be "the greatest wife ever". But we have not had a new DDay where there is supposed to be more disclosures.

Why are you setting yourself for a world of hurt with this woman?!

Why stay in misery?!

You say you love her, I say: What's love got to do with it?!

Right now I'm putting myself together. I'm getting professional help. I'm talking to a friend now. And I'm thinking exactly about your questions, but I'm not actually doing very much as far as decisions go. My guiding word right now is patience. My goal is to be strong, put myself first, and keep my head up.

More than 10 AM hookups and many of the hookups became regulars. So that's now news for me. My WW seems to have been trying to win the gold across many competitions.

Good Lord, man.. it gets worse and worse.

She says she wants to reconcile. She says the behavior started two years ago. She says she is motivated to save our marriage, but the shame of her activities is making full disclosure difficult.

Motivated by what, exactly? Time spent in grade? I'm not being flip. Her choices indicate she doesn't much LIKE being married. I fail to see how thing are SO radically different now that you would find her offer of reconciliation to be sincere. Remember, it is NOT her offer of reconciliation at the end of the day, it's yours. Beware of offering reconciliation early. You may regret you did. I see you are working on your own healing first, but you should approach your healing with the sense that the "perfect" marriage you clearly set such great store in actually never existed at all. I want to stress that anything is possible, even now; I will also state-- what you build out of the wreckage of this marriage will not be anything like that previous "perfect" marriage you cherished. It will be forever tainted by triggering, humiliation, and lack of trust. Trust takes an interminable time to come back to a marriage, once it is lost, and often it is never regained. Being married to the woman you describe in your post-- well, I can just say it will be very challenging, lots of hard work, and require lots of therapy for both of you, with absolutely no guarantee it will work.

Do I sound a little negative? It's possible. I offered reconciliation (on very strict boundaries-- I wasn't going to be part of a multi partner marriage, didn't want to swing, didn't want to share in any way outside the marriage). Foolishly I opted for this almost immediately. I told her it was an all or nothing decision and she had to make it right there. A year after that, I called it a day. From what I could SEE she seemed to be doing the right things. It LOOKED like she was trying. I didn't want to be a marriage cop, so I believe her. After a year of therapy, I told her that it wasn't going to work out. She resisted, I felt awful, then I found out she'd been in contact with the last AP the entire time.

I think that is a scenario I could easily predict happening to you. I strongly suspect your wife is a sex addict, or some kind of validation addict. If you take in what people are saying on here, you will see this phrase repeated-- you are not equipped to fix her. She has to do that herself.

You are only equipped to fix you and make decisions that impact YOUR future. Divorce or reconciliation, it's your choice, but I strongly urge you to figure out what you are forgiving first, before you go the route of forgiveness.

I'd like the polygraph to know the timeline, that's important to me to know when my marriage became a charade. She says she feels shame and remorse and wants to make amends and be "the greatest wife ever". But we have not had a new DDay where there is supposed to be more disclosures.

How many DDays has this been for you? You shouldn't be finding out new stuff at this stage. I agree, get her to nail down her adultery time line, and go over it with a fine toothed comb. Ask for clarifications and resolve inconsistencies. Check against the data you know to be objectively true-- like when you were out on travel, for instance, or the duration of her AM account. Sign in to her AM account and find every one of her assignations by date. Add them to the timeline-- more correctly get HER to. Don't let her chintz out on the information-- you want to know who did what to who, in every unpleasant detail, what she thought about it, what she said to them, the record of her transactions and messages with the other men she slept with. What was she feeling about you the entire time she was doing this? That kind of thing.

ONce you are satisfied with the timeline, go over it with a certified polygraph inspector and get him to help you formulate some good questions. You will probably only get 3 of them, so make them good. For instance, if your wife convinces herself something isn't a sex act, like a hand job or something other.. specify in advance, that that IS a sexual act.. before your examiner asks about other sexual acts with other men.

Best of luck with this, I wish you happiness (eventually). Moreover, strength and decisiveness.