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Haunting “old infidelity”

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 JackD (original poster new member #75911) posted at 8:27 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

Haunting “old infidelity”

WW had A with a work colleague some 21 years ago in ’98 when we were both 31YO . This started one year into our marriage for about 6 months .

I struggled massively to deal with this at the time (hey, wish SI had been around then !) . My ground rule , day 2 was you must never see AP . she did the next day as she “wanted to tell him face to face it was over” . cue hysterical bonding .

Me ? downward spiral , I wanted to know everything which she obliged with ( as I thought at the time but subsequent learnings taught me otherwise) .

“Fast forward” 10 years to 2008 ( now 2 kids , 8 and 4) . After many years of coming to terms with things , a few house moves and even a move across continents and thinking we had found some peace , something started to “go off” in me as I noticed her registering on Friends reunited . To my shame (as it seemed at the time ) I bugged her PC and low and behold she had set up an email account and recontacted her AP (who by now was on a different 3rd continent) wishing him a happy birthday etc etc . They exchanged a couple a couple of long emails where more information came to light (ie. he accused me of “meddling” in “their” relationship .. btw he was married with 2 kids when they first hooked up ) before I intercepted .. on reflection I wish I had waited to see how far when would have taken things .

When I confronted her over this she claimed she always felt guilty about they way she had treated him \ ended the A.

Turns out from the emails I read she had met him 2 years after their A ended , met him in a park with our own 1 YO daughter in tow , again to address misgivings about the way she ended things . He referred to this incident and “touching her breast” and clearly had feelings to go further .

I sent him a stroppy email back and pretty much forced her to send him an email saying it was a mistake to contact him again (probably not my best move) which he did not react well to , again he thought I was “meddling”

Me? Spiral downward again , drink , drug and other abuses to try and mask the sadness and actually trying to make myself loathe myself so that I wouldn’t feel like I could call her out on her indiscretions anymore

10 years on from the above (and another child I’d like to say I’ve reconciled myself but truth is the pain still comes back to me . Not so much an all consuming wave like day 1 or day 10 years +1 , but maybe a few days a year , a dark cloud descends over everything as I recall all the above.

Easy to say time is a healer and would have done things differently but through the fog of A and R , there is no clear light shining that you know that where you should instinctively head for. What to do from here , that’s the question . I cant do another 10 years of this shit that’s for sure

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2020
id 8612169
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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 8:43 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

JackD

you from Kentucky?

chiming in as I just spotted your "entry" to this place

You have a lot to unpack and the experience of people here will lead to some form of resolution.

What no one can predict.

note the "healing library" read everything there

note that you will never be free of the memories of your experience regarding your spouse affair and the apparent attempt to re-kindle some of the old flame.

the picture you paint is on the grim end of the spectrum - as it appears your spouse is still in wayward mind set. Or, in dire need of some change in moral behavior with respect to your wedding vows.

FWIW - many here have walked the path on which you currently find yourself. I stomped down some of the weeds for you before 1998.

With the 4 day weekend - you will not get as many posts as you will after the long weekend ends.

I would advise that you do not order your wife to do anything - discuss what you would like and hopefully she starts to "see the light" and come up with things to do towards resolving the position in which you are now immersed.

The road ahead is long and winding.

Question- did or have you or are you GOING to inform the other affected spouse?

Imperative that you expose and don't give a flying duck - about what your wife's paramour thinks or says.

edit: dang sepll checkter!

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 3:45 PM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery."For a person with integrity, there is no possibility of being unhappy enough in your marriage to have an affair, but not unhappy enough to ask for divorce."

posts: 992   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
id 8612173
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 9:06 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

Your anger is certainly justified. My best advice is to go into IC with someone who deals with infidelity. Take care of yourself physically. Does your WW understand that you are still hurting from her betrayals? Do you believe she still carries a torch for the AP? Is your WW completely remorseful and committed to the marriage? Could she have had affairs with other men? How is the marriage, otherwise? Is she loving and respectful? Does she do everything to minimize your fears of further infidelity? Do you love her or are you simply going through the motions? These are some of the questions you need to answer. If you want out of the marriage, get your ducks lined up. You are in your early 50's. You can live another 40 or more years. Do not sentence yourself to a dead marriage for the rest of your life.

posts: 717   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8612178
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ShatteredSakura ( member #70885) posted at 9:12 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

"Meddling"

What a F-ing tool

I strongly suspect xWW's AP to have had a similar feeling as he was an exBF. The sheer entitlement of some people.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 3:12 PM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

posts: 854   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2019   ·   location: CT
id 8612180
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Michigan ( member #58005) posted at 9:15 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

he accused me of “meddling” in “their” relationship

JackD

Based on their actions both your wife and her boyfriend feel that they did nothing wrong. You reinforced this attitude by them having no real consequences.

She has a fantasy lover online that can do no wrong and you to do the boring husband stuff. She’s taking you and what you do for granted.

You need to at least mention the possibility of divorce in order to get it across to her how serious this is and what she has to lose.

Don't bluff. If you can't live without her you will have to just suck it up.

posts: 585   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2017   ·   location: Michigan
id 8612181
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LostOpportunities20 ( member #74401) posted at 9:33 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

10 years on from the above (and another child I’d like to say I’ve reconciled myself but truth is the pain still comes back to me . Not so much an all consuming wave like day 1 or day 10 years +1 , but maybe a few days a year , a dark cloud descends over everything as I recall all the above.

JackD - I am in the a similar situation in terms of not having been more proactive and decisive...suffering the consequences 10+ years later for what is essentially rug sweeping.

In the 10 years since the emails, has your wife changed? Or is she still behaving the same? Any indication that she is remorseful and wants to do what she can to be safe for you?

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8612185
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:33 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

OLD Infidelity? Probably feels like ongoing infidelity and insincerity. This haunts you because it is unresolved and your gut knows it and will never let you off the hook. She maybe no longer in physical contact with him but, it seems as if she still carries a torch for him. This form of betrayal can be more intimate, in some respects, than an active emotionless PA. Multiple DD trauma is the worst. It just reinforces the deceit and the insincerity of our WS’s claims of it all being an impulsive mistake and, their reassurances that you’re their actual true love and not a concession, a plan B. Leaves you wondering how much of your spouse’s head space you actually occupy vs the AP. Leaves you questioning everything in your relationship.

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1337   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8612186
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Dyokemm ( member #40254) posted at 10:05 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

So OM has whined several times that you have ‘meddled’ with his relationship with your own WW......

My first thought on you sharing this is OM’s focus on his relationship with YOUR WW is because he has had no consequences in dealing with his BW in his own M.

It sounds like you never informed his BW about the A......and as a result, he continues to sniff around your WW (and she continues to interact with him).

Give this idiot something else to worry about then complaining that you are interfering in their A......

Inform his BW.....BLOW HIS WORLD UP.

And do NOT tell your WW you are going to do it.

One- she will warn him and he will take steps to block contact or at least paint you as a psychopathic, jealous liar to his BW so she won’t believe you.

Two- if your WW comes raging at you for outing the OM to his BW, you will know that they are STILL in contact.

Stop rugsweeping.....

It sounds to me that this A has never really ended.....I would not be shocked at all that they are still secretly communicating with each other at a minimum.

posts: 440   ·   registered: Aug. 10th, 2013
id 8612192
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Westway ( member #71747) posted at 10:45 PM on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020

You are the only one keeping yourself in this hell.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8612201
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 1:13 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

My friend, I'm sorry you're here. There is a lot to unpack in what you've said, and you've said very little. Overall, posts like yours are poster children for the evils that flow from rug-sweeping, which is clearly what you've done. Shit stays around like the stench of a rotting corpse under the bed. It never goes away. You spend 20+ years suffering through the charade of a marriage.

The first thing I will say: you don't need any more reason than you already have to divorce this woman. Divorce does not require any threshold proof, and the passage of time from the last verified instance of infidelity does not create amnesty. Divorce is available to anybody who is unhappy in his marriage.

Second, you cannot control your WW's behavior. You should try to do so, not even a little bit. Not by direct request, not by ploys or threats or gambits. You can only control you.

Third, this site is mostly about helping betrayed spouses get out of infidelity. There are only two paths: divorce or reconciliation. Reconciliation is only available if the cheater you are married to commits herself 100% to fixing what is broken inside her (usually with the help of a good IC), going full no-contact with the AP, and bending over backward to do everything she can to make you heal. Obviously, your WW is not one of those types of cheaters. Therefore, to be blunt, your only path out of infidelity is divorce. In other words, your choices are: (a) continue living year after year of "this shit", or (b) divorce your cheating wife.

As to that last point, I'd mention that divorce is not irrevocable. If you file a divorce, it can take about a year to resolve. You can abandon the process at any time. Even after you finalize a divorce, you and your WW will remain in each other's lives as co-parents. You can date. Rediscover a relationship. All that.

However, staying married, that is irrevocable. The time you spend in that unhappy marriage, you'll never get it back.

Divorce is taking action. Moving forward. For 20+ years you've been stuck in inaction. The shark that swims, eats. The shark that stops swimming slowly dies.

Let's get down to brass tacks.

WW had A with a work colleague ... in ’98 ... start[ing] one year into our marriage for about 6 months .

The first year of most marriages is still the honeymoon phase. Cheating at this stage is a huge red flag. It is an express statement by your WW about how she views the sanctity of the sacred wedding vows she made, presumably before God and family.

day 2 was you must never see AP . she did the next day as she “wanted to tell him face to face it was over”

Right out of the box she was not only not remorseful, she was putting the AP and his feelings ahead of you, your feelings, and your marriage. You are and have been Plan B, this entire time.

“Fast forward” 10 years [plus 2 kids and a few moves]. To my shame (as it seemed at the time ) I bugged her PC and [found she had] recontacted her AP wishing him a happy birthday etc etc .

There is no shame in bugging her PC. The shame here is 100% on her. There is and should be no privacy between spouses. The two become one. Meanwhile, you confirmed that, after 10 years of marriage, you're still Plan B.

he accused me of “meddling” in “their” relationship .. btw he was married with 2 kids when they first hooked up

Have you exposed the A to his wife? You should do this right away, and DO NOT tell your WW in advance. The chutzpah of him suggesting you are "meddling" in his efforts to fuck your wife. That kind of talk isn't coming from a vacuum. It speaks volumes about the degree to which your WW has affirmed, to him, the degree to which he is important to her.

When I confronted her over this she claimed she always felt guilty about they way she had treated him \ ended the A.

Assume she was honest in saying this. Felt guilty about how she "treated" the AP? It seems to me she gave up some NSA pussy. He's probably pretty happy about that. Maybe she felt guilty that she didn't give him more NSA pussy than she had already given him? Never mind what she didn't say: she felt guilty that she betrayed you by taking off her clothes and letting another man put his dick in her just months after promising you, to your face, in your wedding, that she would never do this.

Is it possible for her to shout any louder that the AP is Plan A and you are Plan B?

Turns out from the emails I read she had met him 2 years after their A ended , met him in a park with our own 1 YO daughter in tow , again to address misgivings about the way she ended things . He referred to this incident and “touching her breast” and clearly had feelings to go further .

Oops, I spoke too soon. I didn't realize she could turn her "Jack D, you're Plan B" message up to 11. Playing sexy touchy feely with the AP, with your daughter present. SMDH.

10 years on from the above (and another child I’d like to say I’ve reconciled myself but truth is the pain still comes back to me.

My friend you're not reconciled with your cheating wife, not even a little bit. You've merely rug-swept this, choked down the shit sandwich for God knows what reason.

I cant do another 10 years of this shit that’s for sure

If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting.

You cannot change your WW's behavior and should not try. You have not described one ounce of effort made by her to fix herself, to make recompense to you for the damage, nor to help you heal.

As I see it, you have two choices: (a) "do another 10 years of this shit", or (b) man up and divorce her cheating ass. My friend, she is still cheating on you, in essence.

Which JackD do you want to be staring down in the bathroom mirror 5 years from now? 10? If my timeline is right, you're in your early 50's. Plenty of time to find a good, honorable woman who will treat you with respect, kindness, and love. My friend, cut that poison out of your life.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:17 PM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4183   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8612227
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 3:19 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

JD,

One problem that you are having, is not seeing it for what it is. Your WW did not have a 6mth A.

What she had/has is an A that is at least 10yrs long. As long as there is contact with the AP, the A continues.

Next thing to address is her reactions for the get go.

she did the next day as she “wanted to tell him face to face it was over”

recontacted her AP (who by now was on a different 3rd continent) wishing him a happy birthday etc etc

again to address misgivings about the way she ended things

It is obvious that she was VERY invested in her AP. Shew chose his feelings over yours for over 10yrs.

The very fact that she brought YOUR child to the meet-up, shows how little respect she had for you.

Now that you are here, for us to try and help you, can you let us know what has your WW done to make you feel safe? Does she give you full transparency of her life? Does she tell you where she goes, gives you unfettered access to her channels of communications?

BTW, 'bugging' her computer is not wrong, especially when you have reason to suspect something is going on. In a healthy M, either spouse should have free access to each others' communications (phones, emails, etc). The only time for secrecy is if a surprise party/present was being organized/bought.

If you have nothing to hide, you don't hide anything.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 1200   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8612243
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20yrsagoBS ( member #55272) posted at 4:51 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

It’s not old infidelity if you were not privy to important details.

For you, the trauma is new

Please see an attorney, learn your rights. Be good to yourself and don’t trust your Cheater to be honest

Maybe time for a polygraph?

BW, 54 WH 53 When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas

posts: 2199   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2016   ·   location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
id 8612252
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 4:52 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

The part that bugs me is that she felt bad for the way she ended things with AP.

Why didn't she feel bad for cheating on you?

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 4590   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8612253
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 JackD (original poster new member #75911) posted at 8:05 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

Thanks all about above for your responses,obviously not an easy post for me to confront after all these years but still grates in me.SO much more (mostly my decline into extreme wayward behaviour out the back of the A, totally zero before) which I’m not sure I can even bring myself to say here ,let. alone to her. This is my dilemma now ; how can we look each other in the eye day to day and say love conquers all which is what I tell myself but not sure I have ever believed since D. Day. Just realised this latest trigger brought about by another “friend “ who we’ve not seen for maybe 8 years saying to my wife he “always had a crush on her “ after she started putting her LinkedIn profile in order recently. She’s an attractive woman now which makes me all the more sensitive about anything she discloses to me like this.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2020
id 8612264
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 JackD (original poster new member #75911) posted at 8:05 AM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

Thanks all about above for your responses,obviously not an easy post for me to confront after all these years but still grates in me.SO much more (mostly my decline into extreme wayward behaviour out the back of the A, totally zero before) which I’m not sure I can even bring myself to say here ,let. alone to her. This is my dilemma now ; how can we look each other in the eye day to day and say love conquers all which is what I tell myself but not sure I have ever believed since D. Day. Just realised this latest trigger brought about by another “friend “ who we’ve not seen for maybe 8 years saying to my wife he “always had a crush on her “ after she started putting her LinkedIn profile in order recently. She’s an attractive woman now which makes me all the more sensitive about anything she discloses to me like this.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2020
id 8612265
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 2:29 PM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

We can only offer advice based on the information a poster provides. You've not provided much. However, after ruminating on this for a bit, I'd re-write your first sentence:

WW had A with a work colleague some 21 years ago in ’98 when we were both 31YO . This started one year into our marriage for about 6 months .

"My wife and I married in 1998, when we were both 31. At the time we got married, my wife was in at least an EA, that became a PA at some point, with a co-worker. I discovered it about 18 months into our marriage. I confronted her and demanded that she cease all contact with the AP. She said she would, but that was a lie.

I rug-swept the A and did nothing to heal; she did nothing to fix herself nor help me heal. Instead, she met with him in person after the confrontation to warn him about me, then took the A deep underground. For about 10 years, over several moves and job changes, she maintained a secret, one-sided open relationship, continuing to communicate with the AP, exchanging love messages and sexually explicit messages. I caught her again in 2008 and confronted her. I demanded that she sent him a no-contact email. She grudgingly sent it, but I sensed her resentment and I do not know if she maintained NC since then. In the aftermath, I continued to rug-sweep and did not heal. Instead, I sunk into depression and engaged in 10 years of self-destructive behavior, including excessive drinking and drug use."

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4183   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8612295
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Stinger ( member #74090) posted at 4:14 PM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

Easy for me to say, I know. But, why stay. She sounds monstrous.

posts: 697   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2020
id 8612314
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 5:34 PM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

My own personal perspective is that your wife has disrespected and dishonored you throughout your marriage. She has disregarded your pain.

So you’ve been living a lie with her and thus the pain and self medication.

Your children are now 20 and 16 right? You will soon be in an empty nest with a woman you will increasingly realize is morphing into a fishwife as her menopause kicks in and whatever nurturing aspects of her personality she still has fade.

She may be waiting out that eventuality to leave you. Maybe leave her first so you don’t have to stare at this harridan sitting across the breakfast table every morning knowing her duplicity and how she never really loved you and was scheming (at the very least) to be penetrated by another man.

Once empty nest kicks in there will be nothing to distract you from the truth staring you in the face every single day.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:41 AM, November 26th (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8612325
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:46 PM on Thursday, November 26th, 2020

This is my dilemma now ; how can we look each other in the eye day to day and say love conquers all which is what I tell myself but not sure I have ever believed since D. Day.

From what you have written, you can't look her in the eye and say love conquers all, because you're in the middle of your story, and there's a big obstacle in the way.

Have you talked with your W about this? Neither of you had any effective tools for recovering from infidelity 20-odd years ago. You're at least on the brink of finding good tools now.

Just realised this latest trigger brought about by another “friend “ who we’ve not seen for maybe 8 years saying to my wife he “always had a crush on her “ after she started putting her LinkedIn profile in order recently.

How did your W respond?

*****

It looks like you've stopped abusing drugs. What are you doing for support?

*****

IMO, one crucial, early step out of infidelity is to decide what you want, D or R. Often, that's not an easy question to answer. You can't go back in time and preven the A, but you can figure out what kind of life looks best for the future. Once you know, you can figure out how likely it will be to get that future. Do you know what you want?

TBH, I see the same red flags others do, and they indicate R may not be easy, 'not easy' is different from 'impossible.' It's eminently possible, that there are lots of green flags, if you will, that could mean your W will change in order to keep the M, if you lay out the changes you want.

But the 2 easiest things for a candidate for R to do are becoming honest (no more lies) and maintaining NC ('no contact'), and your W has trouble with NC.

*****

Have you considered IC? A good IC can help you process your feelings, decide what you want to do, and, if you want R, evaluate the likelihood of success.

You've carried this with you for a long time. None of us knows what's best for you based on your posts so far, but some of us seem unable to stand uncertainty. Often, however, it takes some time to make the best decision for yourself.

My reco is to take the time you need to make a good decision.

And I also recommend having some faith in yourself to come to a good decision. Up to now, you haven't had tools.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 31151   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8612334
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 JackD (original poster new member #75911) posted at 6:04 PM on Friday, November 27th, 2020

Hippo16 – “Question- did or have you or are you GOING to inform the other affected spouse?”

Ifound her on FB years ago but she is not active by the look of things . I have his cell number and called him a few years ago to say what I though of him and his comments on email , he seemed to have no regrets IMO and not a least bit shamed of the ”meddling” accusations . From email I was able to intercept back in 99 , this was not his first affair outside his marriage ta the time . I get the impression he I still married to same woman now , it does cross my mind if h ever confessed to her , I doubt it

Src9043 - “Does your WW understand that you are still hurting from her betrayals?”

No . She became tired of discussing it after 2008-10 , especially as I went off the rails and did a lot of stuff that hurt her so I think she always thinks we’re pretty much even

“Do you believe she still carries a torch for the AP? “

I suspect so but nothing to leads me to believe she will have contacted him . His last message to her (us really , he knew I had access to emails then ) was “I trust I won't get anything. But if I do, I will just delete it without reading it. I am just not interested in being open for fine and worthy communication but you guys not aiming for that nor respecting me. Understandably enough, as I write these final words to you I have a load of bittersweet feelings. But there is no doubt that this should be it. No

further correspondence. I can only write the nice feelings and best wishes

I have about you and for you so many times.

“Is your WW completely remorseful and committed to the marriage?”

Yes

“Could she have had affairs with other men?”

She has never admitted to any others and said it was the only time

“How is the marriage, otherwise?, Is she loving and respectful? Does she do everything to minimize your fears of further infidelity? Do you love her or are you simply going through the motions?”

I would probably grade it a 6-7 if I’m honest

ShatteredSakura – exactly , see above extract to get a flavor of the arrogance of the guy.

Thanks everyone else , I’ll respond as I get the chance . Its’ clear I rug swept both major times I found out and that’s probably my biggest regret , more so the second time when she re-contacted after ten years and the new information came to light about their meetup\s in the park and calls . Whilst I went as far (not nearly far enough on hindsight) of throwing my wedding ring at her , there were no real consequences to her other than how useless I became to the family unit by relying on drink and drugs to numb the pain . She feel pregnant a few months after the 2nd big disclosure and we lost the baby which sank her into depression , claiming that I did not really want it in any case and accusing me of seeing one of our best GF’s (not true) at the time .

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2020
id 8612616
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