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Years ago when I was teaching my marketing students, I told them that the perfect answer to questions like "How are sales?" or "How is business?" is to respond with "Unbelievable."

Could be unbelievably good, could be unbelievably bad. Who knows? But it's unbelievable, regardless.

So, that's the word I use to describe our MC session today. Unbelievable. In this case, unbelievable in a good way.

I discussed how being "opportunistic" in discussing things comes across as minimizing whatever I have brought up to tell me how I should be better at approaching conversations.

This eventually moved into a conversation about my hesitancy to discuss anything because for 20-something years, the typical response has been to minimize and steamroll.

The MC turned to Mrs. Cap and asked if that was her recollection. To my utter amazement, she answered "actually, it was probably worse than that."

Mrs. Cap then went on to describe in detail how she would look for a weak spot and then exploit it to the Nth degree, finding ways to tear me down and crush my spirit.

I was shocked. For the first time in however many years, I wasn't the only one in this reality. Not only could someone else see it, but she flat out confessed to DOING it.

She talked about how she did everything she could to tear my self-confidence to the ground and that she recognized that her affair absolutely razed anything I had built up over all the years.

She owned it. And not just from a minimized "I did some things that weren't right..." perspective that is her MO. This was an "I've come to understand that everything I was supposed to be as a wife...I did the exact opposite...and I did it on purpose..." confession.

She had great sorrow in her eyes. She apologized in ways I've never heard her apologize before. Specific. Owned. Heartfelt. Recognizing the depths of the knife stabbing over and over and over.

For the first time in a long, long time, I truly felt seen. This wasn't a "poor me, I was a bad person" thing. No, this was an "I have hurt you for such a long time. I can't begin to even ask forgiveness. What I have been was such a horrible person and I can't begin to imagine just how deeply I have caused pain, not just from the A, but in all the years prior."

I must have had some look on my face, because the MC said "What are you feeling right now? Because it looks like shock."

Yeah. I am shocked. Because I never thought I would hear anything like that.

At one point, we had discussed the Codependent/Narcissist scale that goes from -5 (CoD) to +5 (Narc). My wife said "For most of our marriage...I'd give myself a +5...or more...especially when I was stramrolling him about everything." I'm better now. More like a +1.5.

What!?! She RECOGNIZED that behavior?

That was the point when the session ended & the MC said that we will pick up from there the next time.

So, yes, today's session was unbelievable.

CR,

It says in proverbs.

"an honest answer is like a kiss on the lips"

I think many here who are stuck would be able to move on and likely even forgive if they got such unprotected blunt 2x4 answers to their questions.

Sounds like you had a good session, Cap! Good things come to those who wait. I'm pulling for you.

Mrs. Cap then went on to describe in detail how she would look for a weak spot and then exploit it to the Nth degree, finding ways to tear me down and crush my spirit.

I was shocked. For the first time in however many years, I wasn't the only one in this reality. Not only could someone else see it, but she flat out confessed to DOING it.

Holy hell. Are there any parallels to this and how she acted with your kids that they needed help with?

Does she think that she is a narcissist? Has she been evaluated for any personality disorders? I mean, this sure is highly abnormal behavior in how to treat your spouse that you claim to love and value. There must be an explanation for it.

Are there any parallels to this and how she acted with your kids that they needed help with?

Not that I can really remember. I was the recipient of the brunt of everything. She was harsh & critical with the oldest ones when they were younger, but she never sought to hurt them or undermine them in any way that I recall.

I was the lucky recipient of every last bit of it.

Does she think that she is a narcissist? Has she been evaluated for any personality disorders? I mean, this sure is highly abnormal behavior in how to treat your spouse that you claim to love and value. There must be an explanation for it.

Never evaluated for anything. The way she described it was that she never looked at what she was doing to see the ugly darkness of it all. She just thought she was a "strong woman" and was "asserting herself".

And as she continued to "assert" herself and tear me down more and more, it made her want to feel even more powerful.

She "figured it out" in 2015. Made a half-hearted attempt at an apology (again, it was "I'm sorry, I haven't treated you right, we just need to move forward..." By that point, I was a shell of myself. Then I couldn't meet the new expectations of "moving forward". She recommended that I go see a counselor and "figure it out". a

Six months later...hello, A...and the hits just kept on coming...

And I don't write these things to be seen as a victim. I don't need anyone to say "Poor Cap". But it's about time that there was some validation and, on a different level, vindication.

All the times I was told that I didn't remember things properly, that I just needed to cowboy up and do XYZ, that I must be imagining things because that was never [said, done, implied, etc.].

I'm not crazy...all that actually happened...

I have to think this is major progress. Not necessarily going to get her to R, because the underlying reasoning that drove her to this behavior is still untreated. Admission were she went wrong is huge though.

Does she have close friends or does she maintain distance supremacy and control over them also?

She says that she has been working on this with her IC. I'll take her word for it.

Does she have close friends or does she maintain distance supremacy and control over them also?

Not a single one. She has a couple of them that she is in contact with every couple of weeks or so, but no one with whom I would classify as "close".

Not that she will make a change, but whenever she has brought up the fact that she has no "close" friends, I used to ask "Do you think it's a them issue or a you issue?" Her answer is usually "Well, life is just so full and I don't have time for developing those deep relationships...."

I’m happy you had this moment. You deserve it.

I would’ve balled my eyes out but I’m an emotional old sap

Good for you. At least she's admitting she wasted 20 years of your life and then capstoned these two decades of lack of authenticity, habitual cruelty and narcissism with the ultimate act of disrespect and dishonor. I guess that's progress. What do you plan to do with this information?

And just like that...you know it when you see it. It's like a switch for some reason - at least that's how it was with my WS.

I'm glad she is finally letting go of the false image she has of herself and instead realizes that doing bad things and admitting it make you a better person than denying and blaming someone else for your shortcomings. I'm sure it feels good to be steeped in the same reality and to know you are not crazy.

On the one hand you can have empathy for the contortions she's had to develop in order to live with herself. On the other hand, how much damage has she done and can it be overcome?

At the very least, the door is now open to walk together in the same universe and opportunity awaits.

Shit man, I felt better after reading that - I can only imagine how you feel. My vision of my ex wife is colored by her constant attempts to make herself the victim, to read that your wife totally owned what she did and was doing to you definitely feels unbelievable.

I'd say that this indicates that her IC is a very good IC.

I'm sure it feels good to be steeped in the same reality and to know you are not crazy.

Amen! Amen! AMEN!

What do you plan to do with this information?

The short version is to sit and watch, making sure that it wasn't just "for show" as it oftentimes has been in the past. If it's really real, this is the start of rebuilding the foundation where a real, authentic relationship can be housed.

I would’ve balled my eyes out but I’m an emotional old sap

Gotta say that it was the shock of hearing all of that come put of her mouth that kept it from being a flood in the session. There were some tears from me as she was apologizing. There were quite a bit more from her. I may or may not have shed more in my quiet time last night and again this morning.

Not that she will make a change, but whenever she has brought up the fact that she has no "close" friends, I used to ask "Do you think it's a them issue or a you issue?" Her answer is usually "Well, life is just so full and I don't have time for developing those deep relationships...."

That I see a lot of my ex in yours is why I asked. My ex had a cycle. She had close friends but their shelf life averaged less then six months. Always watching for them to fail her. True answer is she doesn't trust anyone close. Doesn't feel comfortable relying on other people. Them knowing her. I tried most of our marriage to get her into IC, but she refused. I know how exhausting it can be to be married to that, so I'm glad yours at least seems to be making progress.

Amazing, I sure hope she had an actual epiphany. Something many of us wished for, it's good to see it can actually happen!

Validation is a big deal, regardless of what the other spouse actually "gets" or doesn't get.

Happy for you!

If for some reason, she ever started acting like that again, how do you plan on handling that?

If for some reason, she ever started acting like that again, how do you plan on handling that?

Easy. I take the kids and we're done. Just that simple. I have the mental/emotional ability to do that now. Didn’t have it 4 1/2 years ago.

She was calculating and behaved this way intentionally.

I hope she changes dramatically b/c that is a sad way to live.