SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

9 years, mind blowing. In a way you've been in a polyamorous marriage. You're the first wife, he's had a 2nd and a 3rd wife.

SnowToArmPits- this is in NO way shape or form a polyamorous marriage. Cheating is not polyamory. Polyamory requires informed consent.

OP's husband is a cheater, plain and simple. Zeta did not agree to her husband fucking several one night stands nor to him having long term affairs!!!

[This message edited by PSTI at 11:06 AM, October 7th (Thursday)]

Just a short update. Not much has happened in the last week. I still live day by day, some days are OK, others not so much. I even started studying.

My WH started IC two weeks ago. He chose a therapist who is supposed to be specialized in infidelity and betrayal. He said the first session was good, except for a strange comment from the C, when he told him, that he has disclosed all of his affairs and details to me. Supposedly, WH shouldn't have told me about ONSs or about the details, because this only hurts me and was of no real importance to him. And telling me just unburdened WH and caused me additional pain. So in a way he supports, not directly lying, but lying by omission. Other than that, he had some good suggestions on how to proceed and how to support me, but this was a huge red flag.

Last week we went there together, not for MC, just for me to check him out and for the possibility for me having IC with him as well. I had some hope that WH somehow misunderstood him. But it was a disaster. First, the C tried to persuade me, that there was something wrong in my marriage besides the cheating, that I must have missed something else and we had other problems prior to the cheating. And as I kept telling, I was happy before the affairs and I had no problems, not related to the betrayal, the therapist outwardly told me, he didn't belive me. Why would I be lying about that in counselling? I was actually happy before WH started the first LTA and for some time after, when I was still more or less clueless. Things were bad in the last few years, but they were bad because of the cheating and not some other underlying problems. I can accept that WH was cheating because he had issues, either with himself or our relationship, but why insisting I was missing something in our marriage as well?

Then I told the therapist, I disagree with him about omitting the details of the infidelity and that I believe I have the right to know everything I feel I need to. He actually said, that the details were not my business, they were my husband's and his APs and I have no right to ask for them. Even my WH doesn't agree with this. I should not dwell on the past, but concentrate on our marriage in the future. And when I said I need to know who I am staying with if I decide to stay, the answer was, we should then talk about my husband and his feelings and not in detail about his past actions. WTF?

Next, he told me the MOW didn' do anything to me, so I shouldn't feel anger, hate or resentment towards her and telling her husband about the affair is none of my business. She fucked my husband for 9 years, tried to break us apart, even though she is married too, just to have him all for herself, she drove across the town to his second job to fuck him after he broke it off with her after D-day, just to change his mind. They never did it in his office before, she is too classy for that, but I guess desperate times called for desperate measures. And after he finally got his head out of his behind and told her they were really over and refused more makeup sex, she was still coming back to him complaining about how she was treated and how ugly the breakup was and how he ruined her vacation. But no, she didn't do anything to me. And yes, I know WH is mostly to blame, but she played her part and I will hate her as much as I want to and no therapist will tell me otherwise.

And in the end,when I said no decent person does things like that to another human being, the answer was, that my standards about this and about lying were too high and very little people could measure up. And that WH tried to, but couldn't follow up in the end.

Needless to say, I am not going back and I don't think WH is either. It is his decision, but even he found the counsellor's views very strange. Not that the C was wrong about everything, he made some good comments, he said some things that made sense and made me and WH think and we did and will again discuss them at home. But the above I cannot accept.

To make my day perfect, the second LTAP contacted WH via e-mail. He ended things with her in July after Dday, just by a short text and then met with her in person a month ago to tell her there can't be anything between them any more. This was before I knew she even existed. Obviously, he wasn't convincing enough, so she contacted him last week, he sent a NC message and she begged him again to meet her in person. He sent another NC, telling her I know everything and if she contacts him again, the replay will come from me. I hope she gets it this time.

Is is a good thing that he told me about her messages? I know every instinct told him not to, but he says he is done hiding anything from me. I don't belive him yet, but maybe it is a good sign?

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 10:54 AM, Tuesday, October 12th]

This so called therapist sounds very dangerous. He sounds like he is pro husband and anti-wife. You need to get your husband out of there ASAP. Your marriage is hanging on by a thread and this guy is going to take a pair of scissors and cut it. There are no excuses for your husband’s behavior, that’s the first thing, and the second thing is you have the right to know everything that was done to your marriage by your husband. Please please don’t go back to this man. If your husband does then It seems to me that he could care less about your happiness. I question why you stay in this marriage. Still, it’s up to you whether you reconcile or divorce, but demand any therapist be healthy. Believe it or not there are some dangerous people claiming to be counselors. Be on your guard.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 11:55 AM, Tuesday, October 12th]

Stay away from this therapist. He will cause you more traumma. His approach is damaging not just for you but for your WS as well.

Next time you choose a MC or IC for that matter, before signing up, ask them about their approach/method of helping their clients with issues surrounding infidelity (as if they are treating WS or BS or rebuilding M). Set it up as an interview of sorts.

It is a good sign you WS told you about the second OW reaching out. Discuss with him how to respond next time this happends be it OW1 or OW2.

Does OW1 H know about the affair?

I definitely will not be going back to this therapist and my husband says he won't either. To be fair, the therapist did say the affair was 100% WH's fault, but then at the end made that comment about my too high moral standards. Luckily these two sessions were just us checking him out and we haven't signed up for anything more. Anyway is it OK to have the same IC or not? I have nothing to hide and have no problem with this and my H says the same. I can see some advantages to therapist knowing both sides, but are there downsides as well?

It is a good sign you WS told you about the second OW reaching out. Discuss with him how to respond next time this happends be it OW1 or OW2.

Does OW1 H know about the affair?

We did talk about it and I told him I expect him to tell me about any contact with any of them, even if my reaction is not positive. It is positive that he is finally trying to be honest, but them reaching out bothers me. And I want that we deal with any contact together. He claims he intends to do so, but time will tell. He also told me about the last couple of times OW1 reached out to him and what she said, before he shut her down and told her he can't be talking with her any more. The last time she was really pissed, because their boss came to her and told her WH asked not to be assigned to any projects with her because of personal reasons. Of course I can't be sure he is telling the truth and isn't talking, texting or doing anything else behind my back.

And the OW1 an OW2 don't know about each other.

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 1:05 PM, Tuesday, October 12th]

It’s definitely a good thing that your H is letting you know when he is being contacted by the OW. Its important because keeping secrets and avoiding hard conversations with you are habits that he will have to break for your marriage to have any chance.

In general, it's not a good idea to use the same therapist as your partner does, because if a conflict of interest arises, it's generally impossible for the IC to serve both of you simultaneously. With infidelity, a conflict of interest is part of the mix from the start, so it's generally a terrible idea.

Some therapists actually can serve both at the same time, but those therapists are rare.

I read you to say neither of you will use this idiot. That's a great decision. Don't second-guess yourself.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:43 PM, Tuesday, October 12th]

Edit1: Kudos to you for taking this counselor to task. I think it would also great that your husband witnessed your willingness to advocate for yourself and your zero tolerance for bullshit, even from a so-called professional.

Edit2: I know you recognize this but just to reiterate: you should not be in MC right now; it's too soon. The wrong MC (as you just got a sample of) can make your situation 1000 times worse. Also, cheaters frequently use the therapeutic setting of MC as a safe space to lie to and manipulate their BS as well as learn the correct "vocabulary" for conveying remorse without actually changing their ways.

You need an individual counselor who will focus solely on your interests and your mental health, and help you come to a decision about whether you want to even look into the possibility of reconciliation with a man who robbed you of the past 9 years of your life. Edit3: When you interview therapists, clearly state what your goals are, ask them about their methods, and ask for their insights for how they benchmark therapeutic progress and success.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:57 PM, Tuesday, October 12th]

I have to ask - what good could your WH get out of an IC who has completely different views about the root causes of his infidelity? He's not just there to learn how to support you. He's there to address his issues that allowed him to cheat for this long and with this many women. His IC just isn't up to that task if he still believes it has anything to do with the marriage. Unless your WH didn't tell him about OW2, what sense would that make anyways? The marriage is bad so he went to OW1 and that was bad so he went to OW2. That alone should make his IC realize how poor coping mechanisms and wanting more was the likely culprit instead of whatever was going on in the marriage. He can't stick with this IC when it comes to digging deep and fixing himself. And if he doesn't do that, he's at high risk of cheating again once things calm down with you.

You have the right to interview the therapist about their views regarding the presenting problem prior to scheduling. Exercise that right as many times as is necessary.

Good luck!

ETA: Best to have your own IC who can help you advocate for your own best interests.

[This message edited by HardKnocks at 11:01 AM, October 12th (Tuesday)]

My WH and I shared an IC for awhile. I don't recommend it.

If I had to start from day 1 all over, I would insist on joining my WH to interview any IC he was considering - and afford him the same opportunity to meet with any IC I was considering. My WH's 1st IC's website "professional" photo was of her in some tropical locale, wearing a shirt that showed the same kind of cleavage I'd expect to see in a pop star's poster. I referred to her as "booby shrink". I never met her, but she had similar sentiments of the IC you describe.

I would educate myself on relational betrayal trauma before "interviewing" an IC for myself or my WH. Including the 2-part interview with Marnie Breecker on "The Addicted Mind" podcast, and all the interviews with dr Omar Minwalla, and whatever I had time for on Helping Couples Heal.

I would ask their thoughts on the 'successful rebuilder" list from How to Help Your Spouse Heal. IIRC, that includes answering ALL of the BS' questions... I KNOW it includes "keep no secrets" (I looked in the book- chapter 3 says if the A comes to light via discovery [vs voluntary disclosure], they "willingly tell the truth without their spouses needing to pry it out of them". The books "the List" BEGINS with voluntary disclosure as #1... #2 is willingly telling the truth if the A is discovered via another way).

I would ask if they agree that being a BS is a trauma, and to provide the nature/extent of their training and experience with PTSD.

[This message edited by cgreene at 11:50 PM, Tuesday, October 19th]

Well, I 'd kind of like to slip that therapist a note. I'm not sure which one to give him though:

A) a well laid out argument against his recommendations

Or

B) tell him that he needs a bit of an ass whoopin' and there are plenty of volunteers for the role at SI. The line starts right behind me.

Hi Zeta,

Sorry you are here.
The title got me. Your story reads like mine. I don’t post often but I read here a lot. It has helped me immensely.
My WH had cheated all our married life.At the time it was 30yrs.

There was a period where, like you, I was preparing and thinking divorce was imminent. I think maybe he was in the throws of his most loving ( lustful limerance) affair and was very disassociated in our life but then he changed back to being invested. ( It all made sense later.)

It also took him three months to come clean with all of his affairs and his long list of EA’s.

I was ready to walk and divorce at D Day in 2014. In fact I was heading off to work and I remember the car trip and playing Pink and making plans as to my next step. I was gutted by his affair but in a way relieved to know the truth. He wanted out and so be it. When I got back from work I think it hit me and anger and sadness over his lies came out. What hit me more than anything was he wanted to save our marriage!
Like. Why?
It was such a shock to me and my adult children that he was an adulterer. He comes across as a very ethical and moral person and then to find out he was a cheater and a disgusting liar brought me to my knees many a time. I just could not understand who he was.

He has done a lot of work. A lot of therapy and a lot of counselling and read a heap of books since d day to try and work out why he lived his life like he did.
He hated who he was. He hated what he was doing at the time but he says he just got such a thrill of a woman…in fact, any woman who found him attractive and funny that he could not get enough of it. Then afterwards he was consumed with guilt and remorse but not enough to make him stop. His cheating life was a mixture of him hating himself and then loving the times he spent with the women who found him wonderful.

His longest affair was ten years. She was single when they met but during the affair she married. (I told her husband) Whilst with her he started another affair that went for eight years. She was a single widow. These were his serious affairs. He other smaller affairs. One was the first year into our marriage with my best girlfriend at the time. The latest affair was with our then next door neighbour. He was a piece of work. He really was.

He worked long hours (so he said) he travelled a lot ( took them with him) and he got away with it. I must have been so easy to lie to. So trusting.

I never saw a red flag. I wondered afterwards what was wrong with me. It took me a long time to realise that he was just such a great liar and of course I used to be a very trusting partner and never dreamt that he was capable of betrayal. I looked back and then saw what might have been red flags but at the time I dismissed them cos there was no way he would do that to me. Call me dumb call me stupid but it is what I am…was …

When d day happened I was recovering from breast cancer and treatment and my whole life was a bit upside down and I know I was in a strange place.

But it really threw me that he wanted our marriage. I was not expecting that. Over the next three months as more truths came out I did end up asking him to leave which he did. I saw a lawyer and got the legal separation going. He agreed to everything. I was not in a good place. I was drinking too much wine at night to dull the pain and I know I had thoughts of suicide and I know I was coming across as quite unstable. I just did not know how to cope and I hated him so much.

My daughters then booked me into a holistic organic mental health facility for a month. ( they asked him to pay for it) It was at this point that through the sessions at this facility I saw my life and his life through a different lens. Each day I had therapy, mindfulness,detoxing,exercise,yoga,meditation, relationship talks…etc etc etc…it was full on and full time. No phones. No media, no sugar, no coffee, nothing but focus on myself and my life. For me it was a life changing experience. I was also able to understand a bit more about why he made stupid life choices and why he did what he did. Stupidity and immaturity as well as a low emotional intelligence formed his framework. More than that I saw my life in a different light. I saw who I was and why I made decisions in my life. I saw what it was that wanted out of my life. I was able to set myself some life boundaries.

After this experience I felt a lot stronger and I met with WH and I was able to start a better communication with him. I think at this point I was ready with a new idea of a relationship foundation and willing to give reconciliation a more intelligent and healthy approach.

We sort of started our whole relationship all over again. It is what it felt like. We were able to talk about our therapy sessions and what we each wanted in life. He was learning a lot about himself. His lack of empathy. He acknowledged his selfish thinking. He realised his whole life that he thought of himself first before anyone else and he saw how wrong that was. This was a huge revelation for him. This was at maybe the two year mark? For an academic scientifically intelligent person he was emotionally like a 15 yr old until d day so it has taken him a long time to grow.

We are now close to the eight year mark and it does get easier BUT it will always be there. He has intense feelings of guilt and hate for what he did and it does get him down but he quite likes who he is now so it helps him. He is always thinking of me first. I see it every day and in everything he does. There are times where he reverts to doing something dumb but they are less and less as time goes on. He is open and willing to talk at all times.

So, in answer to your question…is reconciliation possible? Yes. But it takes a lot of work. A lot of tears. A whole lot of communication. A lot of time and patience. A whole lot of questioning as to is it worth all of this?

Think about what it is you want in your future life. Will all the work be worth it? Will you be able to live with limited trust? Can you accept it might not work? Can you be prepared with boundaries then act on them? What is the risk? How will you learn to live with the trauma? Read everything that has been mentioned in all of the other posts. How to help your spouse heal was a simple yet very effective guide for my husband in the early days. Reading it once is not enough. There are so many aspects to infidelity and the thinking that surrounds it that it will take a long time for them to truly understand.

I wish you a good outcome for whatever road you take….and it is ok to change the path as conditions change or deteriorate.
All the best. Take care of you x

Hi Zeta,

Sorry you are here.
The title got me. Your story reads like mine. I don’t post often but I read here a lot. It has helped me immensely.
My WH had cheated all our married life.At the time it was 30yrs.

There was a period where, like you, I was preparing and thinking divorce was imminent. I think maybe he was in the throws of his most loving ( lustful limerance) affair and was very disassociated in our life but then he changed back to being invested. ( It all made sense later.)

It also took him three months to come clean with all of his affairs and his long list of EA’s.

I was ready to walk and divorce at D Day in 2014. In fact I was heading off to work and I remember the car trip and playing Pink and making plans as to my next step. I was gutted by his affair but in a way relieved to know the truth. He wanted out and so be it. When I got back from work I think it hit me and anger and sadness over his lies came out. What hit me more than anything was he wanted to save our marriage!
Like. Why?
It was such a shock to me and my adult children that he was an adulterer. He comes across as a very ethical and moral person and then to find out he was a cheater and a disgusting liar brought me to my knees many a time. I just could not understand who he was.

He has done a lot of work. A lot of therapy and a lot of counselling and read a heap of books since d day to try and work out why he lived his life like he did.
He hated who he was. He hated what he was doing at the time but he says he just got such a thrill of a woman…in fact, any woman who found him attractive and funny that he could not get enough of it. Then afterwards he was consumed with guilt and remorse but not enough to make him stop. His cheating life was a mixture of him hating himself and then loving the times he spent with the women who found him wonderful.

His longest affair was ten years. She was single when they met but during the affair she married. (I told her husband) Whilst with her he started another affair that went for eight years. She was a single widow. These were his serious affairs. He other smaller affairs. One was the first year into our marriage with my best girlfriend at the time. The latest affair was with our then next door neighbour. He was a piece of work. He really was.

He worked long hours (so he said) he travelled a lot ( took them with him) and he got away with it. I must have been so easy to lie to. So trusting.

I never saw a red flag. I wondered afterwards what was wrong with me. It took me a long time to realise that he was just such a great liar and of course I used to be a very trusting partner and never dreamt that he was capable of betrayal. I looked back and then saw what might have been red flags but at the time I dismissed them cos there was no way he would do that to me. Call me dumb call me stupid but it is what I am…was …

When d day happened I was recovering from breast cancer and treatment and my whole life was a bit upside down and I know I was in a strange place.

But it really threw me that he wanted our marriage. I was not expecting that. Over the next three months as more truths came out I did end up asking him to leave which he did. I saw a lawyer and got the legal separation going. He agreed to everything. I was not in a good place. I was drinking too much wine at night to dull the pain and I know I had thoughts of suicide and I know I was coming across as quite unstable. I just did not know how to cope and I hated him so much.

My daughters then booked me into a holistic organic mental health facility for a month. ( they asked him to pay for it) It was at this point that through the sessions at this facility I saw my life and his life through a different lens. Each day I had therapy, mindfulness,detoxing,exercise,yoga,meditation, relationship talks…etc etc etc…it was full on and full time. No phones. No media, no sugar, no coffee, nothing but focus on myself and my life. For me it was a life changing experience. I was also able to understand a bit more about why he made stupid life choices and why he did what he did. Stupidity and immaturity as well as a low emotional intelligence formed his framework. More than that I saw my life in a different light. I saw who I was and why I made decisions in my life. I saw what it was that wanted out of my life. I was able to set myself some life boundaries.

After this experience I felt a lot stronger and I met with WH and I was able to start a better communication with him. I think at this point I was ready with a new idea of a relationship foundation and willing to give reconciliation a more intelligent and healthy approach.

We sort of started our whole relationship all over again. It is what it felt like. We were able to talk about our therapy sessions and what we each wanted in life. He was learning a lot about himself. His lack of empathy. He acknowledged his selfish thinking. He realised his whole life that he thought of himself first before anyone else and he saw how wrong that was. This was a huge revelation for him. This was at maybe the two year mark? For an academic scientifically intelligent person he was emotionally like a 15 yr old until d day so it has taken him a long time to grow.

We are now close to the eight year mark and it does get easier BUT it will always be there. He has intense feelings of guilt and hate for what he did and it does get him down but he quite likes who he is now so it helps him. He is always thinking of me first. I see it every day and in everything he does. There are times where he reverts to doing something dumb but they are less and less as time goes on. He is open and willing to talk at all times.

So, in answer to your question…is reconciliation possible? Yes. But it takes a lot of work. A lot of tears. A whole lot of communication. A lot of time and patience. A whole lot of questioning as to is it worth all of this?

Think about what it is you want in your future life. Will all the work be worth it? Will you be able to live with limited trust? Can you accept it might not work? Can you be prepared with boundaries then act on them? What is the risk? How will you learn to live with the trauma? Read everything that has been mentioned in all of the other posts. How to help your spouse heal was a simple yet very effective guide for my husband in the early days. Reading it once is not enough. There are so many aspects to infidelity and the thinking that surrounds it that it will take a long time for them to truly understand.

I wish you a good outcome for whatever road you take….and it is ok to change the path as conditions change or deteriorate.
All the best. Take care of you x

Zenkitty, thank you for your story. I am so sorry we both had to deal with this level of betrayal. Your story and others posted above give me some hope that future together is possible even after such special kind of hell and that even cheaters who are in so deep can turn around. I don't know if I will be able to forgive him, or even just accept what he has done and move on with him, but still any shred of hope is welcome in my state of mind.

Things are still pretty much the same with us. He is trying, still does most of things right, but I don't believe his words and I am not even sure I can believe his actions. I am still in this state of perpetual mind movies, of sadness and anger and disbelief that this is my life now. I still wish with all my heart to stay with him, but I am so afraid he will hurt me again, because I don’t know if I could survive it. We haven’t found new ICs, since the disaster a couple of weeks ago we have looked a bit, but most around here seem to have this shared responsibility philosophy, which I will not accept. But we talk a lot, he even initiates these talks more than I do, actually every time he sees I am down. We talk about the affairs, but mostly about us, our feelings, our expectations and he insists he loves me and wants to repair the damage he has done.

He is trying to get to why and how he allowed the affairs to begin in the first place and then to last this long. He says he fell in love with the first AP (but still loved me all the time and never considered leaving ), and felt entitled to have something just for himself after 20 years of being a good boyfriend, husband and father. He just didn’t expect to go this far. It was just spending time together at the beginning and it took more than 6 months before they had sex and in all this time he was slowly pushing his boundaries until at some moment he realized he was already cheating and then went full in. This is the moment which bothers me the most, which constitutes most of my mind movies – the first time they were together, when he realized there is no coming back from this, but still did it. Even though I found the first incriminating messages a month prior and he saw how hurt I was and he saw me crying, but when he managed to gaslight me it didn’t matter any more. I just can’t get this moment out of my head. And I still blame myself a little bit. If I didn’t allow myself to be gaslighted, if I had pushed harder then, maybe this wouldn’t have turned into a full blown affair. And maybe, the ONSs and the second LTA wouldn’t have happened. I know it is just wishful thinking, but I just can’t help myself. He has changed so much in that period, he turned from an upstanding human being who knew what was right and lived by his beliefs to someone I don’t recognize at all. He says fidelity was sort of a binary variable to him, either he was faithful or not and when he crossed the line, it didn’t really matter if he did it again with someone else. He was a cheater either way. It sort of makes sense, or maybe I just want it to make sense, but it is in line with his story, that he never even considered cheating before AP1, then it took 6 months to do it with her, but just 2 months after their PA started he already had his first ONS.

On the other hand, I sometimes question if he was really faithful the first 20 years of our relationship. Can a person really change this much? He is willing to take a polygraph on that subject and he was pretty bad at hiding stuff at the beginning, that is why I caught on very early that something was happening, but I just don’t know. Maybe the person I fell in love with never really existed.

And on top of everything the second AP doesn’t seem to get the "no contact" concept. I have some sympathies for her, because she is just 25 or 26 and he was her first relationship, but she knew he was married the whole time and he made sure to tell her, they have no future together, but now, when he ended the affair abruptly, she just can’t let go and says she doesn’t want to live anymore. On the upside, he has shown me all her messages and when she has shown up at his workplace, he contacted me immediately.

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 12:53 PM, Friday, October 29th]

Zeta - I'm so sorry for all that you're continuing to go through. I hope that things turn out the way that you'd like.

because she is just 25 or 26 and he was her first relationship, but she knew he was married the whole time and he made sure to tell her, they have no future together, but now, when he ended the affair abruptly, she just can’t let go and says she doesn’t want to live anymore.

How are you sure he told her they had no future together? Over 5 years I can't help but believe he gave her conflicting signals. Regardless, he groomed a child idc idc idc, 20 yrs old is a child to me. I really do hope that she can move on for your sake, and for her own sake, and get some therapy and recover from this. She wasn't a toddler, she knew right from wrong, however context matters, she was quite young, naive (first relationship = virgin?), there still exists an inherent power imbalance based on age and life experience.

[This message edited by Aletheia at 5:05 PM, Friday, October 29th]

I agree with the above. 20 years old is still very young. Especially since it was her first relationship.

And there is no way he didn't "future fake" her. None. A 5 year "relationship" and he wants you to believe he never allowed her to believe they might be together one day,and he would leave you? That's not even believable.

I would have him take a polygraph. You can not begin to attempt to reconcile, until you have a foundation of truth. And you don't have that.

He may not have ever intended to leave you and be with her. But he surely told her he did.

Actually one of the few things in this mess I am pretty sure about, is that he didn't mislead her or promis her a future together. I listened in on their last phone conversation and she confirmed he told her on several occasions over the years that she should find a boyfriend her own age, someone who would be just hers and not married with kids. And she mentioned he told her he loved her only once in the five years and even that was when she questioned him about it. She also said she expected to be with him until she finds someone else or until she finishes her degree (he was helping her with her studies quite a lot apparently), then they would continue to be friends. Btw, now that I know about the affair, she doesn't understand why they can't just be friends, why there should be no contact. She gets they can't have sex, but what harm would getting a cup of coffee together now and then do .

But in the end it doesn't matter what he said to her. She is obviously in love with him and she may have heard his words, but what she understood or hoped for may be an entirely different thing. She is quite young and pretty immature, even for her age and he should have known better.

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 11:54 PM, Friday, October 29th]