SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Before deciding whether or not to ‘reconcile’ or rebuild or restore your marriage, some thoughts should be understood and considered before moving forward.

If you’re new to the forum, I’m sorry you’re here, just be sure to understand that none of your spouses choices are your fault.

Nothing we can do can make someone cheat. In order to cheat a person has to make dozens of calculated decisions, including choosing to lie in order to hide those decisions from you. But that’s the damage too. We can’t imagine our status changing overnight from loyal spouse to being completely invisible to the person we trusted most.

It’s trauma we’re being asked to recover from. It’s the emotional equivalent of a high speed vehicle collision. It takes several YEARS to recover from this.

— So now what?
We don’t owe our spouses a second chance. Read the previous sentence again.

If we stay, it should only EVER be because we’re aiming for something worthy of us and our valuable time.

Reconciliation is NOT staying for the kids. It’s NOT staying for financial stability. It’s NOT due to fear of the unknown. Staying for those reasons are leaning into a life of resentment and additional misery on top of the betrayal horror show.

People do stay for all those reasons and more, and I understand why they do. I’m just saying if you’re staying for anything other than a chance for a decent or better life — it’s not reconciliation.

— Don’t Settle!
A good R isn’t settling for less. It’s demanding more. It’s requiring more honestly, more changes, more consideration than at any other point in the relationship.

To me, settling would be allowing the bad behavior to continue, to allow a WS’ un-safe habits to continue, to stay the course.

If you feel like no matter what else you do, you would have to settle for less — then divorce may be your best path forward.

Your standards are intact. You didn’t cheat, you held up your end of the deal.

— What are the odds?
Personally, I love the line, "Never tell me the odds."

That said, the odds are not on the side of reconciliation. I’ve read 31 books on infidelity and relationships, recovery, blah, blah, etc. All of that and 5 bucks gets me a cup of coffee. I’m no expert, but some people need numbers or an idea how rare my experience is to reconcile a marriage.

Our MC was a bit of an expert. He’s been a counselor for 35-years now and at one point he informed us he was a betrayed spouse. His marriage ended in D. He doesn’t set out to ‘save’ marriages, merely to give people enough information to decide for themselves. That said, he agreed with the odds. It’s uphill.

Of all the statistics, or those who need a number, let me put it this way. I think at some point nine out of ten betrayed spouses choose to leave. Sometimes it takes years to get to that choice, but I think that’s the number. Of the people who choose R, if both spouses choose that path together, I’ve read that around 70 percent of those couples succeed.

In other words, if 100 couples go through infidelity, 90 divorce, 10 try R together as a team. Of those 10 couples, 7 make it. So, that’s about 7 couples per 100 dealing with infidelity that find a path to recovery.

Like I said, it’s uphill.

— It takes both people.
You can put all you have into saving the marriage, but you cannot do it alone. I think the biggest reason R fails is one partner or the other is unable to be vulnerable again with the other. In order to feel vulnerable we have to feel safe. Some folks NEVER make it back to safe. That gets back to those odds above.

It’s more than normal to not feel safe for a very long time after infidelity.

Some WS never get back to vulnerable either. They feel like they will never get balance back in the relationship, so they don’t try or they stop trying.

So the WS has to ditch the shame and not hope for ‘normal’ since infidelity obliterates whatever normal used to be.

— What about trust?
Great question and one that gets asked early and often around here.

How did blind trust work for all of us?

It didn’t.

Blind trust isn’t a good idea and best left to fairy tales and amateur gamblers.

The first person you have to learn to trust after infidelity is YOU.

You doubt everything because you can’t believe you missed the signs. Welcome to this club. All of us MISSED every single sign. Because we trusted that if our spouse was unhappy enough to cheat, they would TELL us.

The upside is, when we get hurt bad, we learn fast. We know what the signs look like and feel like, we know what the lies sound like and the methods used to deceive us.

A WS is out to change all of those patterns, all of those things that made them want or need validation from strangers, or it’s not R. If they are holding to the same old stories, same routines, they’re not worth another minute of your time.

Trust yourself first, then allow your WS to earn SOME trust back with consistent, caring actions.

— Will they ever do it again?
None of us know the answer to that. But a WS who does no work, makes no changes, makes little to no effort or only temporarily alters bad behaviors patterns is 100 percent likely to make similar choices in the future.

In my case, my WS not only hated what she did, she hated that the validation and the risk was all for nothing. Being used for a temporary escape from reality wasn’t worth it to her. She still had to work at it to overcome the shame of her choices, that’s something some WS aren’t able to do. IF a WS is unable to ditch the shame, they keep their distance and avoid vulnerability as much as we do after dday.

A WS who owns all their choices, and takes responsibility to help heal the relationship is someone you can at least work with going forward.

— What’s the work?
For me, it was finding my value. I’m awesome, I’ve always been awesome. I’m kind, I hold the door for people, I always stepped in when I saw a bully pushing anyone around. My sons turned out great because I was good father. I served my country for six years as a badass United State Marine. I coached football for 25-years helping guys learn about getting the best out of themselves to help them and their team. All that I don’t need any human to validate me, agree with me or praise anything I’ve accomplished.

But I forgot all of that on discovery day.

It took me time to get back to my badass self.

I didn’t take any shortcuts. Counseling helped some. Music helped some. I worked out, I read about recovery here and in books. I focused on what I liked about me. I let go of the outcome.

The day it doesn’t matter to you whether you’re married or not is the day you can do anything.

That’s when I truly chose to give my wife one last chance.

Her work was similar, she just had farther to go find her value. People know when they make bad choices, and I’m not sure my wife will ever forgive herself, but she did have to let go of the shame. She had to not put up walls and be be defensive. She had to understand why she wanted that validation from someone outside of our relationship.

And she had to help me put this thing back together.

— Yeah, but how the ____ is it better?
Infidelity is as bad or worse than any tragedy in my life so far. I’m in my mid-50’s now, so I don’t challenge the Universe to throw more at me, but I do realize more difficulties are ahead me. That’s life.

I can’t ever control any person in my life or the bad things that happen to me.

I get to control one thing in this world - my response to adversity.

It ain’t a bumper sticker, it’s a choice I get to make. I get to decide how I tackle this and whether I’ll stay in the past or live for today.

I chose to not let whatever my wife did DEFINE me.

I went a step further and decided I would not let her worst choices her worst days define her either.

By doing that, it gave us a shot.

Before infidelity we communicated poorly. We were married young, and we kept all of our horrible habits from our youth, and would talk down to each other and let problems build up on us. We played the stupid games, the power struggles, we competed for attention from the other — it wasn’t all sunshine.

The best part of R for me is building a bullshit free environment.

No games, no leaving issues for later, if I have a problem, I vent it all, on the spot.

It’s liberating compared to how I lived before. That’s better.

My wife and I give to each other instead of take from each other. That’s way better.

We don’t have to fake it or pretend any feelings. If it’s a bad day, if there is a trigger for me, well, WE deal with it together. That’s better too.

I used to say the better M was in spite of infidelity, but the reality is — it’s because of infidelity. Infidelity blew up the marriage, broke the deal, ended the world as we knew it. We made GOOD changes because of the HORROR show she created.

I wouldn’t recommend infidelity to anyone, ever.

I will always hate that it happened. I will never be okay with her choices.

I also am glad we fought our way back.

— A recap for considering R:
1. Don’t Settle. Don’t compromise your standards.
2. Don’t rugsweep - pretending it didn’t happen or stuffing your pain down is like building an emotional time bomb that only gets more powerful the longer ill feelings fester and linger.
3. Confront the initial pain and anger head on — with or without counseling. Just don’t bury it.
4. Decide what YOU want. Ask for what you want.
5. Set the boundaries required for you to move forward and feel safe.
6. Let go of the outcome. The only person you can control in this life is you.
7. Blind trust is never a good idea. In all seriousness, 100 percent trust in any human is not a good idea. How did that innocent take on trust work out for any of us?
8. If you’re going to rebuild the relationship, you have to find a way back to vulnerable.
9. Accept the facts of what happened, however you can always be NOT okay with those facts.

Oldwounds this is very spot on when it comes to my experience too.

It is funny. Every once awhile the hypothetical dicussion about would you rather be BS or WS comes it is an easy answer because I am so far out from Dday. Without a doubt I'd rather be me, who happens be a BS.

My W still has times where she has trouble forgiving herself. You know what? That is her cross to bear. I can't do it for her. She created a shit show by making the choices that she did and on some level I believe that she should bear the consequences.

Great post for any newly minted BS to read and take to heart.

Thank you for this thoughtful, hopeful and helpful post. Today is my 4th anniversary of discovery and my world still wobbles on its axis. I hope to be as wise and confident as you before I am done. I am going to share your post with my WH because it is such a great touchpoint for us both. Best to you moving forward.

Thank you for sharing this I can’t really comment yet because so many things are on my mind. I will be sharing this with my W also.

Fantastic post! It reflects my beliefs 100% and I feel that is needed!

This is an excellent post. Not only for those who have been able to reconcile, but also for those who could not. The odds are very stacked against it. That from my perspective is very good to see. I have almost left this site at various points feeling like a failure as I did have a model EXWW who showed remorse and was willing to do anything to save her marrige and family. Reading hear stories such as yours illustrates that I’m more the norm than the exception.

You are so right about the vulnerability aspect. I was to quote Taylor Swift "never ever ever ever" going to be vulnerable to her again. Or as it unfortunately seems with anyone else, although I’m working hard on that.

The other thing in my opinion needs to be a return to mutual respect. Same thing, I was never going to respect her and she respect for me was clouded with fear. Not physically, but fear that I would one day decide I would walk away, which in hindsight was a legitimate. That fear manifested in her being so subservient that I almost couldn’t recognize the woman she became or which I still look at with regret, the woman I created.

You should be very proud. I read a lot of "reconciliation" stories which aren’t reconciliation stories at all. It’s just the BS deciding that keeping their lives, financials, and children intact is worth eating the shit sandwich. I get that as I did it for five years. But they never really accept the affair happened and get to a better place. The really just survive the ordeal. You, and others here have transcended and have a truly happy marrige. Again, I recognize the hard wirk needed to do this and commend you

waitedwaytolong:

You should be very proud. I read a lot of "reconciliation" stories which aren’t reconciliation stories at all. It’s just the BS deciding that keeping their lives, financials, and children intact is worth eating the shit sandwich. I get that as I did it for five years. But they never really accept the affair happened and get to a better place. The really just survive the ordeal. You, and others here have transcended and have a truly happy marrige. Again, I recognize the hard wirk needed to do this and commend you

I can agree that a marriage can survive (in a manner of some sort) - but it is forever clouded joy when the memory of the infidel intrudes in the mind of the BS.

Given time - the memories sharp recollection of details dulls - but never goes away. Said it again another way -

You CAN again enjoy life and have good times living. And you will be financially better staying together and "keeping the family intact" if outward
appearances can be practiced to the point they seem natural to others so that the marriage looks so well.

But - the but - it is like a car repaired after a wreck - the frame or uni body is unbent - but the metal is forever changed internally. The body panel with the dent filler is painted over and the appearance matches the 'factory' appearance. But underneath - some know and those who know of the "accident" know for sure what is underneath the surface. They accept the appearance as reality those who don't know the history..

I agree life can go on and be fun and enjoyable - just quite never the same before innocence lost.

Thanks for the very kind words Waited. As I’ve mentioned before, you have been a big part of my work for my recovery along the way. We’re not that far off in how we view the Hell of infidelity and your honest reflections you’ve always posted hit home hard. I’ve felt all those same exact things and was certain there was no way I could be married after what my wife did.

In fact, one of your posts years ago allowed me to warn my wife that love wasn’t going to be enough to ‘save’ us. Hell, love couldn’t stop infidelity, how could it possibly be the key factor in R?

So, we started to find ways to build the bridge back to each other, with love ‘and’ better communication, love ‘and’ more empathy then ever, etc.

You are so right about the vulnerability aspect. I was to quote Taylor Swift "never ever ever ever" going to be vulnerable to her again. Or as it unfortunately seems with anyone else, although I’m working hard on that.

I do hope you find a way to vulnerability with someone you care about. I have the same group of friends I’ve had since 8th grade, one of them was cheated on, got divorced, married again — but couldn’t be vulnerable and ended that too. I’ve seen his walls up close, but they are not ever coming down for him.

It ain’t easy when we’ve been burned so badly.

Another huge point you brought up, the subservient wife stuff — yeah, that’s no fun. I needed my wife to find her strength, to find her swagger and not wallow in her poor choices.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:00 PM, Thursday, September 16th]

Hippo16-

I agree life can go on and be fun and enjoyable - just quite never the same before innocence lost.

Life’s never the same after any tragedy, but there aren’t any rules that require us to mourn or stay in victim mode until the end of time.

Innocence lost probably means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For me, I had a stepfather who beat me like a drum from the time I was 8 to 11 years old until my mother literally escaped with my brother and I late one night. Life lost it’s purity long before I joined the USMC or was cheated on.

I can maybe equate ‘innocence lost’ with the presumably comfortable blind trust I put in my spouse.

But again, blind trust doesn’t serve ANYONE well, and it’s a lesson hard learned.

Ultimately, I’m sorry some folks (and this may or may not be your experience) are unable to really move forward.

My wife and I don’t have to be married.

Every day we choose each other.

We’ve been to Hell and back, and every day we get to decide we want the other.

We didn’t stay because of the kids. Our awesome sons, who give us great joy are grown up, and they reflect the best of us.

We didn’t stay because of the money. After decades of financial struggle, a couple of key financial victories a while back changed all that. We could each retire today, alone and be perfectly fine with money. That’s a fortunate spot to be in, yet, we worked really, really hard to get there.

We stayed because we like each other.

I’ll grant it took some brutal years to get back to that sentence above, but we’re there. And then some. More love, some cherish in there too and we’re building on some level of trust everyday.

As I mentioned in my first post, I understand that I am in rarified air. But we do exist. My wife and I aren’t the only ones. In fact, a couple who happily R’d BUILT THIS WEBSITE.

I’m just not one to spend my life looking out the window wishing bad shit didn’t happen to me, or living in some part of the past where life was somehow more innocent — wondering what an infidelity free life would look like. Of course, I’ve had all those thoughts, they just didn’t do me any good.

My energy is aimed at living well. Right now, that means holding hands with the person I love watching the sun fall into the Pacific every night.

It’s not about pretending it didn’t happen, it’s about what is going on right now in front of me is FAR more important to me than the past.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:29 PM, Thursday, September 16th]

Thanks for this, Oldwounds. I posted my 7 year update then came in and saw your post and read it. You are very spot on with your wisdom and insights. 7 out of 100, huh? I really do feel like a unicorn some days.

And as I read your very thoughtful post, I recognize how similar our emerging thoughts post-infidelity are. While many of us start at a different place, also have different paths during the years of the recovery process, once we funnel out the into the other side, many of the insights gained are similar. That just seems very interesting to me!

Thank you for supporting, as well as challenging me to dig deeper and grow stronger, over the past few years. Surviving Infidelity is much easier with friends like you.

All the best to you!

Hey psychmom! Great update in the thread your started.

I really do feel like a unicorn some days.

Maybe not quite unicorn level, but we do seem to be on the endangered species list!

And as I read your very thoughtful post, I recognize how similar our emerging thoughts post-infidelity are. While many of us start at a different place, also have different paths during the years of the recovery process, once we funnel out the into the other side, many of the insights gained are similar. That just seems very interesting to me!

It is interesting. And I agree, while infidelity behavior is amazingly the same, recovery from infidelity seems follow unique ways to the other side.

The one thing I hope we all find is some level of peace.

Or lots and lots of peace and hearty dose of happier moments.

Thank you for supporting, as well as challenging me to dig deeper and grow stronger, over the past few years. Surviving Infidelity is much easier with friends like you.

You’re kind to say, and right back you — thanks very much for all the help you offered. You had a lot of insight to those tougher moments, and things I got to ‘see’ coming before they happened for me on my road back.

OldWounds,

It was threads like this that gave me heart when I was new to this. Today is an important day for us, and it was important during my W's A. I remember this day in 2010, and it's comforting to read your words.

My only quibble is with your comments on the odds. Shirley Glass stated that of the people she treated who said they wanted to R, only 20% ended up D'ed. I take that to mean: if both partners want R and do the work, R is eminently possible. Since both you and your W were willing to do the necessary work, the odds were actually in your favor. (How about THAT for re-framing? )

Given time - the memories sharp recollection of details dulls - but never goes away.

Two thoughts:

First, as OldWounds points out, there's a lot of tragedy in the lives of most people. Infidelity took its place among mine.

Second, and more important, that's why this advice is so important:

If we stay, it should only EVER be because we’re aiming for something worthy of us and our valuable time.

Remember: almost all of us can leave. There's no statute of limitations in an M - it can end whenever one partner decides to end it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:29 PM, Thursday, September 16th]

Sisoon —

You’re one of those people here at SI that really helped me and my perspective, so if anything I ever ramble about out helps you in any way, I’m glad.

My only quibble is with your comments on the odds. Shirley Glass stated that of the people she treated who said they wanted to R, only 20% ended up D'ed. I take that to mean: if both partners want R and do the work, R is eminently possible. Since both you and your W were willing to do the necessary work, the odds were actually in your favor. smile (How about THAT for re-framing? shocked )

I accept your quibble, and I understand. I took the Glass number, which I thought was specifically 72 percent of couples where BOTH people are all in for help. However, my MC’s assertion is the VAST majority of couples experiencing infidelity either don’t seek counseling at all — or only ONE partner in the couple is interested/does the work to save the M.

And it kind of matches up a bit with membership here. Even the people that jump straight to the R forum, most of them are in shock, doing all the work themselves or worse - some of them are still in infidelity.

I realize not everyone who has a successful R posts in positive stories or even returns with happy updates.

I think SI is primarily a trauma ward, helping people through their worst days and they simply move on, regardless of their ultimate path.

SI certainly was a HUGE part of my recovery.

Ultimately, to me — I was trying to suggest the numbers, the odds — don’t matter to me. And they shouldn’t really matter much to anyone who heals and figures out what they want out of life and their M.

Some folks just love numbers, and I thought this explained our smaller numbers here in the R forum.

Oh I love this so much. What a beautiful and spot-on distillation of what it means to R. It's funny how we can be from different generations, with different experiences and different marriages and all still come to the same realizations about R.

Reconciliation is NOT staying for the kids. It’s NOT staying for financial stability. It’s NOT due to fear of the unknown. Staying for those reasons are leaning into a life of resentment and additional misery on top of the betrayal horror show.

So many times, we mistake rugsweeping or "powering through" or even martyrdom for reconciliation.

My favorite definition of reconciliation is this:

the action of making one view or belief compatible with another

The view/belief that I had to reconcile was that the woman I though would never betray me did it without blinking an eye. It changed my entire view of who she was.

The interesting part is that SHE also has wrestled with reconciling her view of herself with the path & action she chose. Seeing that process has certainly been painful for me over they years because of the continued denials about her character, her choices, her selfishness. For Mrs. Cap, the process to merely reconcile with herself has been at least a 4 1/2 year battle.

I can recall about 3 days after D-Day v1.0 when I found out more and more information on my own and was asking her questions about everything. At one point, she looked at me and asked "Why don't you believe me? I'm an honest person!"

Well, 3 full days of lies and cover-up was something she needed to reconcile with that belief she held about being "an honest person". At the 4+ year mark, she finally started that process.

All of this to say that reconciliation has to first start from within for both the BS and the WS. We cannot reconcile with one another until we have reconciled with ourselves.

Godspeed my friend. Keep enjoying the new life. And as I have said for many, many years of my life...wait till next year!

Hey Cap -

All of this to say that reconciliation has to first start from within for both the BS and the WS. We cannot reconcile with one another until we have reconciled with ourselves.

This is a very succinct observation and absolutely a key. — and even both partners are able to do this, it doesn’t guarantee success. That’s how hard this is.

You’ve certainly given your wife every opportunity to work on herself. That seems to be finally happening, I hope it continues.

And as I have said for many, many years of my life...wait till next year!

I thought I was an optimist, but I yield that title to you — and heck, if it worked for your Cubs….anything can happen.

Maybe there is something about us baseball fanatics and the hope that returns each spring, after suffering some LONG winters.

Be well, keep healing my friend!!

Emergent8

It's funny how we can be from different generations, with different experiences and different marriages and all still come to the same realizations about R.

If we all get far enough along — yes, the realizations are amazingly similar.

It’s a tougher tragedy than most, and yet, peace and joy are available on the other side of all the good work.

Oldwounds - what an excellent post. It really should be a stickied thread in this forum. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your story?

But they never really accept the affair happened and get to a better place. The really just survive the ordeal.

This is so sadly apparent. Really great way to explain what most "reconciliations" look like.

Aletheia -

Have you ever thought about writing a book about your story?

That’s a very kind suggestion. I do love to write and I think writing my experience down at home along the way helped me — as one fun SI member always asked — do you journal?

Yes. I did journal.

When we have 5 billion negative feelings zipping around our brains, it always helped me to write it out, figure it out.

All of that said, I do think the closest I’ll get to a book is the long post to open the thread and my story on my profile page.

And I think the reason is — life is not done yet. The hard earned re-start my wife and I worked hard to get needs time and attention and not reflecting too much more on what happened but what we want to do today.

Sun’s out. Maybe a walk along the water this morning.

Thank you oldwounds, you are spot on on many levels.. Today was a rough day for me.. I wasn't sure why I was feeling out of sorts till I realised today was the day my wife first chested on my physically.. She was on her "solo" vacation and basically spent the evening sexting the AP before inviting him to her hotel room for a booty call.

This was 4 yrs ago.. DDay 2 was 2.5 yrs ago.. I am still struggling.. Mainly due to the struggle I had to get her to go NC.. and that as time went on she went from being apologetic to angry at me for not getting past it.. To the point now I know we are just in limbo.. Sex life is dead.. We are not truly happy with each other.. And I am sure she is still in contact with him.

I wish I had your advice two years ago.. Laid out what I wanted and asked if she could follow through.. As I am sure the answer would be no and I would be happily divorced now.. I know i would be happier having asked for exactly what I wanted.. And known for sure if she was willing to try.. Or just wanted to forget what she did.