M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 1:20 AM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
"I just moved away from the sushi bar at in the restaurant bc the guys at the bar were trying to talk to me.
One said no way that’s your baby.. & I moved away.
Seriously if you want to be with me stop withholding love from me as a punishment bc it going to truly cause me to stop doing my part & we will get divorced. I don’t want that but what your doing is not helping & it TAKES TWO to keep this together"
And this is why, earlier in your story, people identified your wife as manipulative and verging on abusive.
She is the victim, you are the bad guy. She is a poor, suffering lamb, starved of love, and cruelly denied the chance to have lunch with a group of friends that she did not betray or lie to for eleven months, which may account for why - according to her - they love her. If she starts having sex with their husbands and boyfriends, they may change their opinion of her, but until her friends have been negatively impacted by her actions, why would they care about what was done to you and the kids? That would require a level of empathy and conscience that they may not be capable of.
The weird thing is that while she is making everything relating to the salvage of the marriage completely dependent on you, she managed to cheat and lie for eleven months without once consulting you for an opinion, let alone your blessing, of the actions that she took independently. She can fire a huge missile at the marriage without your help, but clearing the rubble afterwards depends entirely on you. The audacity of what she is saying is staggering, and the focus on herself, and her entitlement to love and worship, would be laughable in other circumstances. It is hard to read her texts without thinking, "Who the hell does she thinks she is?"
I am wondering what actions she considers constitute the 'part' that she says she will stop doing unless you start worshiping her, because nothing she has done so far suggests any effort, empathy, or remorse. Wouldn't she have to start doing something before she could stop it? All she has done is p*ss and moan about not receiving the adulation she believes she is entitled to, and play the victim. Is that the 'part'? If she stopped doing that, the quality of your life might improve.
Our thoughts are with you as you endure this, Ark. Your wife made an independent choice to cheat, without consulting you. You may have to make a choice about your future independent of her input - such as it is - based on what you need, and what you are receiving.
[This message edited by M1965 at 1:25 AM, Saturday, November 13th]
src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 2:22 AM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
Ark, I am sorry but you must not forget this is the woman who was fucking another man while trying to get pregnant. She didn't give a shit who the father might be. In fact, she may have processed in her pea brain that it was your fault she couldn't get pregnant so why not try with the AP?
Get rid of her. Don't take any more of her crap. She is horrible. Save yourself. How in the hell in what reality can you see her changing? Contrary to what some have said here, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
File and serve her. Just maybe she might wake up once she is served. Hopefully not, because it will be most likely temporary and you will be sucked into spending more time with this person. This woman is way too callous and self-centered for redemption.
J0ck ( member #47763) posted at 9:42 AM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
Mate not saying what you should or shouldn't do
But IF you divorce you can see how she's going to spin this to her friends --the old I tried everything to make it up to him but he was unloving etc etc yada yada (poor me).
beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 10:36 AM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
I followed your story and I believe I replied 1 or 2 times. To summarize, while you were trying to conceive a second child, your WW was also in an active affair with a gym guy who you also see once in a while since you go to the same gym. While pregnant, your wife didn't know who the father of her second child was. She didn't care who the father was. I believe she also made you both believe (husband and AP) that you were the father of her child which was highly mental in my view. The affair was discovered, DNA tested the child and now you're trying to work on all things for R but it seems that everything is failing.
In my view, your WW is not R material. She's selfish. She celebrated your birthday with another man inside of her. She celebrated your daughter's birthday with another man inside of her. She wanted to conceive a child and didn't care who the father is, whether it'd be her husband or her AP, it doesn't matter as long as she conceives a child. And now she wants you to join her in celebrating her birthday? Why not ask the AP to celebrate it with her by putting her d*** inside of her since they were having fun for all those 11 months?
Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 11:25 AM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
I’m reasonably certain that if your google traits of a narcissist that it would read like her resume.
She’s doing a poor job and is falling apart simple because you are doing the one thing narcissists can’t deal with - you not falling for their bullshit.
You may want to make her someone else’s problem sooner rather than later. When narcissists don’t ‘win’ they escalate.
longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 2:43 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
If YOU want to be with ME stop withholding love from ME
I thought you were pulling the pin and she had gotten the message. What gives? Is this some pathetic Hail Mary pass on her part?
She is really thinking you are still in this? To the point where she can make demands? She is acting like she has power in this. Why are you letting her?
More important, why are you doing this to yourself?
goalong ( member #57352) posted at 4:02 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
One has to understand that OP is wavering in his decisions and attitude because he is the one who is emotionally affected and not the writers to this forum.
However you are doing a mistake by trying to overly analyze how your WW and her circle, including her family responding to the situation. She is trying to be defensive all the time because of what she did and frequently such people who are in such situations do not make sense in what they say or even do.
whatever you do at the end (D or R) hope you keep your head up and do your other things like job even better. Though it is difficult it keep your mind occupied and away from negative thoughts. Also it gives you satisfaction and sense of accomplishment and in the eyes of others you look confident and sexy. On the other hand if you react to every situation in an uncontrolled manner you look weak. Because what has happened you can never undone and to keep your sanity and acting in a productive manner this is the only way forward. Otherwise you are the only one that get affected.
Any consequences to the OM? Hope his W see him for what he is, a loser getting involved with a heavily pregnant women.
The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:02 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
You can love her. Doesn’t mean she loves you as a loyal and caring spouse.
Just because you love her doesn’t mean you have to stay married to her.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.
jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 8:32 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021
I won't go into the accusations or diagnosis of labeling your WW with a specific disorder. She may have a clinical diagnosis, and she may not. That may be more important down the road, but the truth is that this does not matter at this point. She doesn't believe that she can be helped, nor is she seeking out help.
But what you do need to do, right now, is DEAL WITH THE PERSON STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU. Not your loving wife/girlfriend of years past; not the potential good wife she could possibly be in the future. THIS WOMAN, today, is what you have. Are you good with this version?
Chamomile mentioned earlier that this is not a remorseful person. Not even close. Any signs of contrition or guilt seem to evaporate in a nanosecond if she does not like the way things are going. Her sense of entitlement is currently of the charts. In no way is this person in front of you reconcilable material. It's your option if you want to try to wait this out in hopes of her 'getting it'. I will say this--in my years of being here, and reading thousands of peoples stories, it is the betrayed spouses who draw a hard line, refuse to accept poor behavior, and are willing to end the marriage(and actively work toward doing so) if their partner's behavior is ANYTHING but empathetic and full of contrition....are the one's who fare the best---by far. They are truly willing to lose the marriage in order to have a chance for it to be saved.
Many waywards do not have it in them to make wholesale changes. The bottom line is that they don't really want to. Their behaviors are a culmination of shitty boundaries and poor decision-making probably long before we even meet them. It's usually pretty obvious of the ones that do want to change for the better. Their actions match their words. They show vulnerability. They show CONTRITION. They have more concern for those they hurt over themselves. All things that your wife currently lacks.
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14
WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 12:56 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
I think goalong makes a great ppint.
Well, there is no doubt OP is torn. I mean, from our vantage point, the best thing OP could do is grey-rock his WW and file for divorce. But OP isn't doing quite that right now, for him obviously things are not so simple. For all we know he may even be on the verge of (regretfully) caving to what his WW is saying to him about how "the only way we can fix the marriage is if we do it together" aka the cry to rugsweep. We know this is bullshit in a situation like this, but let's face it, it's all to powerful a line that has been used too many times by MCs and Waywards to manipulate BSs into rugsweeping.
This also goes for what OP's WW texted him "don't punish me for witholding your love". It completely misses what actually happened here, but it's a powerful manipulator. Doesn't this tie into the advice not to go to bed angry? It's awfully hard for a BS to give up on his vows just because his WS did.
Just to be clear, I absolutely believe OP and his daughters would be much better off if he filed for D grey-rocked in the meanwhile, and never looked back. I sense the OP isn't there yet, so I'm just trying my best to pace the way the OP may be thinking here.
I absolutely agree that OP's WW is actually revealing a lot more than she is probably intending to. She is not remorseful, and her capacity to do the work is not nearly enough in the relation to the damage she caused. She is illustrating that as clear as day in her texts! (Meanwhile she wants a gold star for not engaging in conversation w some random? Wasn't she with her daughters anyway?) She doesn't get/doesn't care that OP is so betrayed that even being around her right now is torture. She doesn't get/doesn't care that OP is an severe anguish because of HER actions, and the least she can do is demonstrate that this is way more important to her than her damn birthday.
Basically, WW is saying that she thinks OP should keep on acting like her husband, even after SHE betrayed him AND his daughters, **for another man** in about the worst way possible and already blew the marriage into smithereens. It's why her lines about it takes two to fix the marriage and all that are really, just total bullshit. It's NOT AT ALL the usual tough times about money or challenges w kids or anything like that, where at the end of the day you are still on the same side. See OP, your WW demonstrated to you that she isn't even on **your team**! She left that for OM.
jb3199 brings up a great point. OP, rugsweeping NEVER works. The harder line about always turns out to be the better one. For both the BS's happiness and self-respect, and saving the marriage.
[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:38 AM, Sunday, November 14th]
Ark04l (original poster new member #79489) posted at 2:18 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
I will be filing for D. As much as I HATE the thought of breaking apart or family, I know it’s the only way.
My wife has her IC therapy on Monday. The therapist insisted I come. And told me to "not trust my wife whatsoever"
With that being said. 10 minutes ago we just told my 8 year old daughter we are separating. She broke down. Absolutely fell to pieces. And so did I. I couldn’t help it. But she clung to like glue. And even (not my intention) looked at my wife and said "this is your fault"
So I’m ready for Monday, I’m ready for a professional to tell my wife how fucked up this all is. And then I’ll be telling her that same week I want a divorce.
I leave tomorrow. "For my week away" that will be followed up by IC counseling for ny wife, and divorce papers.
Fuck this is hard. I’m in a lot of pain right now because how hurt my daughter Is. but this is the only way
Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 2:35 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
Yeah man that sucks. Nobody here will be able to sugar coat that tough discussion for you.
Just know that it will not be the discussion that will be a pivot point, it’ll be how this is handled going forward.
One point of consideration is going away. I understand that you absolutely need it, however your daughter may feel a bit of abandonment. I’m merely bringing this up as something to chew on. I do not think what you are doing anything wrong, it may just be something to chew on a bit.
Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 3:03 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
Strength to you for this week Ark. Your kids will get through this, as will you.
M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 3:05 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
I think you have made the only feasible, realistic decision open to you, after having the need for it forced upon you. This is not what you would have wanted in an ideal world, and everyone here knows what you must be feeling, particularly after telling your daughter. How does an eight year-old make sense of something like this? How does anyone make sense of something like this? There is no making sense of any of it. Infidelity is selfish toxic cruelty.
It goes without saying that you will be there for your daughters in the aftermath of this, because they need a solid, stable grown-up to be 'there' for them and to do what is best for them. Your wife was, and is, incapable of doing that. All she seems to care about is herself.
You and your kids will be alright, because you will ensure that. They need you, and you need them. You can be their family, and they can be yours. And maybe one day you will meet a woman who will become a part of your life and theirs.
Be there for them, Ark. They need the security and stability that you can offer them. You said that you had problems bonding with your new daughter, but she is as innocent and undeserving of this as you and your eight year-old are. Please do not let your wife's actions colour your feelings toward her; she is your daughter, and she needs you and her sister to build her a solid framework that makes her feel loved and secure. From what you have written here, I feel sure that you are already way ahead of me on this score.
Out thoughts are with you and your daughters in this difficult time.
[This message edited by M1965 at 11:58 AM, Sunday, November 14th]
longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 5:24 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
As trite as this sounds, we are all pulling for you. I don’t see how you could do otherwise. Did your wife absorb the pain of your daughter or is she still on the me me me train?
Strength to you.
The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 12:16 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
Can you make it a point t if telling yourself child that you live her and she should call you every day. No matter what. You need to be there for her.
And also so your wife doesn’t put the blame on you. You need to be very honest with your daughter that your wife is the one that caused this situation and you have no choice. Otherwise yiur wife will blame you and have your child blame you.
This was the professional advice I received. You don’t need to provide details but you do need to be honest with your child that you have no choice and you cannot stay married to someone who doesn’t love and respect you.
So sorry for you.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.
66charger ( member #69471) posted at 4:31 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
My wife has her IC therapy on Monday. The therapist insisted I come. And told me to "not trust my wife whatsoever
That is a strange thing to hear from HER therapist. Be prepared for the iceberg to emerge. If you are 100% sure you are going to divorce, you may want to consider passing on this meeting. There is no need to become the Titanic.
Buy your 8 year old a cell phone (if she doesn't have one already). It will comfort her to know Dad is always there, even if it is a text/call.
RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 4:59 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
My wife has her IC therapy on Monday. The therapist insisted I come. And told me to "not trust my wife whatsoever
Her IC broke patient confidentiality to tell you that?
src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 5:21 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
I am truly sorry it has come to this point, but you have no choice. Focus on yourself and your daughters. It will be difficult at first but as time progresses you will emerge from this nightmare in a much better situation with your whole life still ahead of you. Co-parenting requires cooperation between the two parents. I did it. It wasn't easy but my son did thrive and I saved my sanity and self-respect in jettisoning a serial cheater.
Please be prepared for anything when meeting with your wife's IC. There may be an attempt to blame-shift, minimize the behavior of your WW, or some other tactic designed to derail your resolve to get out of the marriage. She is your WW's therapist so I would be on guard.
The purpose of the session should be simply to help you and your WW transition out of the marriage as amicably as possible with an emphasis on your daughters' welfare.
Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 5:41 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021
Ark - strength to you. I feel that you are making the best decision for you and your children. You’re getting out of infidelity. You have your whole life ahead of you.