SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Honest opinion, Owningit, it's the bailing on the kids. Leaving after they are grown does not seem as bad. Probably doing their spouse a favor, man or woman.

I’m scratching my head as to why Jose Nunes married Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love). She divorced her first husband Michael Cooper, to find herself, then married Nunes - her soulmate so she said.

Of course Gilbert found herself again, divorced Nunes, and then partnered with Rayya Elias, a woman.

Did Nunes expect a different result?

I finally figured out part of why this thread was bugging me.

If we can't make the assumption that there was infidelity in the mix or on the proverbial horizon, then we also can't make the assumption that there are reasons for the "demolition" beyond just what the author has described. If you're just tired of cleaning his crap off the toilet, then fucking say that. Or if you've decided that you don't really want to be a mother, then just say that too. OWN THAT. Don't sell this kind of vague crap as some type of female empowerment...because I find it incredibly demeaning and insulting to suggest that your personal epiphanies are a by-product of realizing there's no fulfillment in soapstone. And I also find it incredibly selfish to break up a family because you aren't happy when you seemingly have no clue what it would actually take to MAKE you happy. I don't know exactly what I want...I just know it's not this. Isn't that the exact same thing that should have been figured out before she got the "this"? Maybe what needs to be figured out before you do "that"?

Read it. Drivel.

Don't sell this kind of vague crap as some type of female empowerment...because I find it incredibly demeaning and insulting to suggest that your personal epiphanies are a by-product of realizing there's no fulfillment in soapstone. And I also find it incredibly selfish to break up a family because you aren't happy when you seemingly have no clue what it would actually take to MAKE you happy.

Nailed it. Said it better than I could.

Here's the problem and why it's on an infidelity site. It's about not honoring vows. Sure there are deal breakers, but this guy broke no deals.

I hope if she wrote her own vows they said:

"I will stay with you as long as we can hack it, and if I have an identity crisis I will drop you faster than you can say 'can't we just see a therapist first?' "

As long as those are the vows, she didn't do anything wrong.

To be perfectly fair, if I were to renew my vows I would say something similar. No way I'm promising lifelong commitment to even a reformed cheater.

I will drop you faster than you can say 'can't we just see a therapist first?

Do we know that they did not work on the M or try MC?

Not sure why people are upset as it does not appear the husband is. He will be fine. The kids will be fine.

I have seen cases like this and generally when the spouse is holding them back, it will not be long that the kids are holding her back.

Her husband will move on and eventually have the kids.

Often you do not have to burn the witch, instead simply open the door and hand the witch her broom.

She will have to live with this.

Do we know that they did not work on the M or try MC?

I don't, but in all of my MC, IC and reading the way this article is written sounds very much like it's coming from someone that had a midlife crisis and decided to stop trying. Maybe she read "the alchemist" at book club. I don't know.

What strikes me as not having done therapy is her lack of substantive complaints combined with lack of understanding why she is taking such drastic action indicates she hasn't given it the thought and care it deserves. Not "my husband turns away from me" not even "I just stopped loving my husband and couldn't stay in a loveless marriage". Just that she "felt" like her experiences were colored through the lense of being her husband's wife. She even uses the passive voice to make this complaint. Not "I found myself defining my experiences through him and couldn't figure a way to define my own life inside the marriage". She takes no ownership of how she chose to define herself in the marriage and blamed the marriage for it.

It's sad and a bit pathetic to be frank.

Her conclusion is that she "thinks" she isn't deluding herself (after making a solid case that she most likely is) that this is not for nothing and what she is doing is starting something "new". Okie dokie. I bet you therapist was totally down with that logic for ending your marriage. "No no, you aren't deluding yourself, this all makes sense, the weight of cabinetry decisions never should have been laid on your shoulders."

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 4:14 AM, Wednesday, January 5th]

Here's the problem and why it's on an infidelity site. It's about not honoring vows. Sure there are deal breakers, but this guy broke no deals.

I didn’t realize we got to be the arbiters of what does (and more important does not) constitute a dealbreaker in other peoples’ relationships. Here I thought we were just an infidelity site.

What is an acceptable dealbreaker? Why do you feel that she must prove herself to you?

Are women not allowed to divorce good men?

I'm not talking about legal or statutory restraints Dee 😂

Well thank God for that. That would be truly terrifying!

Anyone can divorce anyone for any reason. That's the law (in most places these days). As a society, marriage is essentially vestigial.

Now, personally, I think it's unethical to make a vow and contract for life to throw it away because of reasons you can't even say out loud to your spouse.

Man or woman. I don't care and I welcome you to reread all of my posts in this thread and see if you think I'm carrying any sexism into this opinion.

A man divorcing his wife for the same lack of reason is equally unethical and pathetic.

My autobiography might be titled, "Diet, Accept the Indifference of the Universe, Reason".

Are women not allowed to divorce good men?

Exactly. Do people have a right to get divorced because they think it's best? Or best for them?

Most people say No, in conversations I've had in real life. They say marriage is a commitment--for better or worse. But honestly, you can't know what marriage is like, what your particular marriage is going to be like, who your partner is going to be, or who you are going to be until it happens. You can talk all day long about, "But you promised!" Except the promise was made when you had no damn idea what you were talking about.

But to defend men here, in all fairness, they just don't seem to feel as lost in marriage as many women seem to feel. We drown. I don't know why, can't explain it, don't always understand it, but it happens. We give until there's nothing left. My H gives a lot too, he really does. But his max and my max don't equal the same amount of giving, for whatever reason. The mental and emotional energy is all me; he simply follows directions. And I do appreciate that! But I am jealous as hell of the freed up space in his brain. There has been no extra space for any superfluous thoughts in 25 years. I look at him obliviously playing on his phone and think, "Why is he so mentally unburdened?" Idk. No answers here. I know he tries very hard, especially now.

Lost Daughter anyone? I found Olivia Coleman's character to be, well, lost. And I can relate to lost. And eta: when we watched The Lost Daughter, my H could not relate to Leda at all. That's when I understood that men and women do not experience marriage and parenthood the same way. I don't know how or what is different, but it's something.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:47 AM, Wednesday, January 5th]

I finally figured out part of why this thread was bugging me.

If we can't make the assumption that there was infidelity in the mix or on the proverbial horizon, then we also can't make the assumption that there are reasons for the "demolition" beyond just what the author has described. If you're just tired of cleaning his crap off the toilet, then fucking say that. Or if you've decided that you don't really want to be a mother, then just say that too. OWN THAT. Don't sell this kind of vague crap as some type of female empowerment...because I find it incredibly demeaning and insulting to suggest that your personal epiphanies are a by-product of realizing there's no fulfillment in soapstone. And I also find it incredibly selfish to break up a family because you aren't happy when you seemingly have no clue what it would actually take to MAKE you happy. I don't know exactly what I want...I just know it's not this. Isn't that the exact same thing that should have been figured out before she got the "this"? Maybe what needs to be figured out before you do "that"?

Now that is what bugged me too. It was too vague. It was cheerio dust and cabinets and Pennsylvania but it wasn't really because I'm sure she still has cabinets and cheerio dust and clearly her husband would have moved to NY because he did even as they were breaking up. I found the actual piece pretty vapid. That doesn't mean there isn't real stuff in the real life situation that she just didn't put out there and it's kind of a shame she didn't. Because yes, it comes across as shallow trying at introspection. I'm assuming it didn't go down quite that way in real life.

I suspect because for women like Honor, marriage is romantic and for men, like me, it is a duty. Quiting without substantial injury shows a lack of integrity.

For a WS there is no integrity either. It's a more violent vow break than simply leaving. But leaving like that is breaking your vows.

I suspect because for women like Honor, marriage is romantic and for men, like me, it is a duty.

I do not see marriage as a duty, but I know many men who do. But what is that duty exactly? To simply have that family? Keep that family? But that is ridiculous because you are only 50% of the equation. The family is not yours to own or take care of. I feel men are harmed with this line of thinking.

Exactly. Do people have a right to get divorced because they think it's best? Or best for them?

Most people say No, in conversations I've had in real life. They say marriage is a commitment--for better or worse. But honestly, you can't know what marriage is like, what your particular marriage is going to be like, who your partner is going to be, or who you are going to be until it happens. You can talk all day long about, "But you promised!" Except the promise was made when you had no damn idea what you were talking about.

You may have hit on the real disagreement here. What is marriage? It's a beautiful thing to see a married couple who have been together for 50 years and still love and cherish one another. Maybe the most beautiful thing in the world. It is horrifying to see a married couple who have been together for 50 years where one is clearly just waiting for the other to die so that they don't have to spend one more day with them. There are individually wonderful people who cannot be happily married to one another and truly shitty people who seem to make it work somehow. No infidelity or abuse is pretty much a base level expectation of any relationship. Not doing those things isn't an impressive feat. Lots of marriages are unhappy without the truly awful deal-breakers.

If you can't live happily with a person, who are you honoring those vows for? Who are you trying to impress with your survival skills and long-suffering patience? If the marriage is unhappy, the kids aren't going to be much impressed and no one mentally healthy is so good an actor that they can fake loving their spouse for a decade plus.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 4:58 AM, Wednesday, January 5th]

The duty is in the standard vows.

Have/hold
Love/cherish
In sickness and health
In good times and bad
Richer or poorer
Forsaking all others
Until death do is part

It's not hard.

The duty is in the standard vows.

Have/hold

Love/cherish

In sickness and health

In good times and bad

Richer or poorer

Forsaking all others

Until death do is part

It's not hard.

Lots of things that don't violate those vows make a marriage die.

Your spouse develops a drug habit. That's sickness. Do you stay as you become homeless because she spends every dime on drugs? Sells everything in your home, including your kids' X-Box? As you sleep with your wallet and keys in your pillow at night? She's sick. Times are bad. She's made you poor. What is your duty?

She decides that soap is bad for you and stops bathing and wearing deodorant for years.

She joins a crazy religion that you are morally against in every possible way.

She causes drama with everyone and you wind up isolated from your friends and family due to her behavior.

Or maybe she just starts to irritate you with every word she says because what was cute when you met is now annoying as heck.

None of us has endless patience and tolerance. We can wind up with people who don't technically break a single vow and yet we cannot remain with them unless we're dead set on martyring ourselves for an ideal.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 5:08 AM, Wednesday, January 5th]

Dee, Honor has basically no complaints about her husband's behavior or what drove her to do this. She states he is innocent. She states that she doesn't answer his question why (at least not out loud).

I'm not actually saying the duty of marriage is to be kept for anything but infidelity (for example like Jesus suggests). But I think it would involve them no longer doing their end of the bargain. A drug addict is not holding up their end of the love/cherish part of the contract. It is a two way street.

But if we sit here and say, "divorce without reason is fine", we may as well also defend other vow breaking for personal gain. I don't know, maybe infidelity for example?

That's what brought this article to this site and that's what I'm pointing out.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 5:21 AM, Wednesday, January 5th]