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Newest Member: BigGuy

Just Found Out :
I think my world is over

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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 10:34 PM on Friday, February 11th, 2022

I don’t think anyone, or at least not many, have said the sperm donation excuse was a real excuse. I wondered if my post could be read that way. My country is big on sarcasm and it becomes second nature. What I was trying to do was to lay out her case (as explained by OP), tilted slightly, because it just leaps off the page as absurd when you do that. It’s like repeating what someone says, and just responding ‘really?’.

[This message edited by straightup at 10:37 PM, Friday, February 11th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 385   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8715639
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 1:25 AM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

I’m a little perplexed as to why she was 100% sure the first child was AP’s. She was, because she says she went back to him to conceive child #2. Was it just that the first child resembled AP in some way, or has she already done her own DNA test.

It's possible that she wanted to have a child with her AP and avoided conceiving with her BS.

Me: 62, BS -- Her: 61, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 559   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8715663
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 2:19 AM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

Three points: (1) This is a ghastly betrayal. About as bad as I have read. (2) Her story of why she picked the AP to father the children is completely idiotic. Any reasonable person who was intent on having kids would never have done what she did. Obviously, she wanted the AP to be the biological father. There is no way around it. Her excuse is total horseshit. She may be trying to convince herself now that she took a bullet for the team, but obviously, that was not her motivation back when she chose the AP to be the father. (3) I can't imagine how you can reconcile with someone who did such a horrible thing to you. Take her up on having her sign over everything. Move quickly for divorce. If there is some type of legal remedy you can pursue against the AP, do it.

I am so sorry. Please take care of yourself physically and emotionally.

posts: 717   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8715671
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ButAnyway ( member #79085) posted at 2:39 AM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

src9043 … Exactly … ^^THIS^^

[This message edited by ButAnyway at 2:39 AM, Saturday, February 12th]

posts: 151   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8715676
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yellowledbetter ( member #70518) posted at 3:50 AM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

" Eventually, OM was fired and got sued. (I verified this with an acquaintance, it’s true) The new president started accusing WW of knowing and being involved in the fraud due to the rumors of her and OM thanks to the OBS scandal at the office. "

No, thanks to your wife being a POS human being.

Me: BW 54, WH 57
LTA, AP 20 yrs younger.
Married 35 yrs, together for 38
3 adult children
DDay Dec19/2018 Attempting Reconciliation….still.

~where there is deep grief, there was great love.

posts: 143   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2019   ·   location: Canada
id 8715682
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 2:25 PM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

Wow. I just read your narrative of her letter, her explanation and your first steps to parsing it all into something that is coherent and perhaps, provable. I apologize if I said anything that sounded like "get on with it? what's next?"-- I was concerned, this is kind of a new one for me. Your description of what happened next is thorough and well-written; I know it had to take a while.

Guys, for real, I am well aware of where I am standing. I know what she did to me, I know the word used to describe males in my situation. No need to try to convince me on D her. I got no desire for R and am thousands of miles away from forgiveness or rug sweeping. Please, no need to keep rubbing it on my face.

Nobody on here is that insensitive. Yeah, we all know this is betrayal at a level that is hard to imagine. We don't use certain phrases that tear the heart and soul out of a betrayed spouse. It's not healthy and it's not productive to make a poster feel like hammered crap. Anyone who comes close to that is usually fresh out of hell themselves, and they're another member of the walking wounded.

A couple of points. You seem willing to admit to some personality traits that "made it easier for her to be unfaithful". I would advise you not to get too hung up on this-- from her letter she is already more than willing to blame your personality on her having an affair. Please, be careful with this. Adultery isn't a mistake (or something that "just happens"), it's a selfish decision, made after a series of escalating shitty decisions (all of which, by the way, the answer should have been a firm NO to-- No I won't text you, No I won't have lunch with you, No I won't flirt with you, No I won't sext you.. and you see how it escalates). She claims she did this with intention and planning. I think you're smart enough to realize this is a classic after the fact justification.

She claims this extramarital relationship was entirely planned, for YOUR benefit laugh , to "give you what you wanted". I'm sorry. There are so many holes in this answer you could drive a Mac truck through it. She's saying she decided, on her own, without consulting ANYone, that she would take unilateral action in her marriage to be inseminated by another man, and (although I'm unclear on this), it only took the two times she was fertile to do this? She literally looked at the calendar, found the right day, cleared his schedule and went and had sex with him? Just to have a baby for YOUR benefit? My people have a saying for times like this: "Yeah, and I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot".

She never thought she was vulnerable to discovery? DNA testing kits have been around since before you were married-- chances were pretty high she was going to get discovered sooner or later, even in Latin America. It was almost an inevitability. My kids and I have done DNA tests, fortunately we achieved the results anticipated. My ex has much to answer for, but not this.

I'm hesitant to offer advice because man... this is way over my pay grade. There are some common sense actions I would take, however. You have a (more or less) sanitized version of events from her end. She paints a fantastical story worthy of a Lifetime movie plot. Remember this, as you ponder on just how implausible all of this sounds-- she's had a very, very long time to get her story in order. She knew this day was coming. I won't call her a diabolical genius-- she had to know what a risk a DNA kit was, and she hid her anxiety over a mask of indifference. SO.. she's at least a good actress. I would focus on the elements that can be confirmed. The first question I would ask is how much of this is verifiable? Would it be possible to speak to the HR department of her previous firm? It would be nice to get their side of the story now. I would think, as a spouse who is experiencing Financial Infidelity (which is what we call it in the States), you might have a right to know what outstanding debts are being carried by your spouse-- why and how. I don't know what's true here but I know a little something about human nature. Nobody pays back thousands, puts themselves into long term debt, risks her standing, her credit and her professional reputation, if they don't have to. The very first thing I'd be thinking is there was more to this fraud than your wife is telling you. That the OM did more than just commit adultery with her. IF you visit this company to get their side of the story and it turns out to be a false narrative, what does that suggest to you? To me it suggests simple blackmail. She was offered (probably by the OBS) a choice of paying them off or informing you of the affair. It's a nasty business from the sounds of it.

I'd also reach out to the subordinate and get his angle on what actually happened. Of course his loyalty is to your wife, not you-- but he might be approachable. If they were such good friends, maybe he's the only other person out there that ever heard the real story. I would try this before trying the OBS.

As to that... well, you have your wife's version of what's true and what's not true. His OBS made it uncomfortable at her old place of work and that facilitated both of them leaving? I think? Or at least the OM getting fired. So OBS outed this fraud scheme? Are they still together? Than I doubt it. Your wife doesn't want anything to do with the OM; she appears adamant on that-- however if the OM is the father, does he have some measure of rights to be involved in your son's life somehow? I have no idea how it is in your country. It would probably be difficult to set up a low-thread discussion with the OBS, but it would be very revealing.

I very much admire your attitude about this contretemps; it is incredibly complex and you have approached it with logic, dignity and at least some level of self-awareness. Keep making good decisions-- including getting your wife access to therapy. Best of luck.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 2:30 PM, Saturday, February 12th]

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 799   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8715710
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:12 PM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

OP, how are you today?

But you are what you did
And I'll forget you, but I'll never forgive
The smallest man who ever lived..

posts: 6822   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8715718
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:30 PM on Saturday, February 12th, 2022

I'd also reach out to the subordinate and get his angle on what actually happened. Of course his loyalty is to your wife, not you-- but he might be approachable. If they were such good friends, maybe he's the only other person out there that ever heard the real story. I would try this before trying the OBS.

This is a pretty good idea. The infidelity might be just the tip of a larger ice berg.

I much admire your attitude about this contretemps

Although this is far…from a "contretemps".

It would be nice to know the degree of her complicity, sum of monies involved and the terms of her redress. Was there an actual crime involved or was it a breech of trust and violation of corporate policy? As her spouse you have a right to know the impacts on your family. Was there an out of court settlement? If so, what are the terms.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, containment of risk and further harm, and the stability and security of you and your kids environment and welfare, is job-1.

Someone (AP and OBS) and possibly others (grieved employer, creditors, loan sharks, authorities) may possibly have some degree of power over your WW and/or could compromise the overall security of the family.

Just something to think about.

"If nothing in life matters, then all that matters is what we do."

posts: 1337   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8715757
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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 3:03 PM on Monday, February 14th, 2022

SHSA - I hope you found some peace over the weekend.
I imagine you are trying to keep calm knowing now what you know while being around the children.
Do not sleep with your wife unless you are closing that chapter for good!
She will take it as forgiveness.
How are you doing? You said you don't have many people to talk too. Feel free to dump it out here. If you skip some of our posts, that is ok. It is sometimes cathartic just to post.

posts: 725   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8716085
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HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 6:45 PM on Monday, February 14th, 2022

SHSA -

OP, your story is one of the most horrific I've ever seen on this board, if not the worst.

You are not in a place to think clearly right now. YOu may think you are, but really, this is just too much for you to dissect at this time. So start with IC and get some help there. We can parse through the letter and I think the experience of the board is usually spot on.

Facts:

Your wife wanted to start an affair, though she said she gave that up
Your wife went back to the same guy for the affair, so you have to imagine that she had and continued to have feelings for this guy.
Your wife cheated on you, not once, but over a long period of time
Your children were conceived by the POSOM
Your wife cheated on your for a long time, and hid those details, hid the paternity of your children for a decade
Your wife hid everything at work from you also for a decade. She has lied to you in the most horrific way possible.
Your children are not yours biologically, but you raised them
Your wife stole a huge part of your life from you, a decade of your life.

Those are the facts. There are no assumptions, those are just the facts. There doesn't need to be a case built on justification, or her motives. That just doesn't matter. Even if what she wrote in that letter was what she felt, and it was true, I have to say SO WHAT? YOu have the facts above.

Take her offer now, and have her sign over what you believe to be FAIR. We cannot judge what is fair, but she owes you. So while she is offering you an easy D, which is what you said you were leaning towards, take that offer NOW dude. It won't get any easier for you. You get to decide what is FAIR, but make no mistake, it won't always be this easy for you, so the advice from the board is to take that offer. YOu can always give her back more later if you feel the need, but she may never again feel this much guilt to give you an easy road out.

You can even decide to R later on, but at least they will be on your terms and you will have been financially protected. That and go to IC, those are your two best individual pieces of advice at this point.

posts: 1426   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8716157
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recovering2018 ( member #63336) posted at 7:57 PM on Monday, February 14th, 2022

There's a lot of debate about WWs motivations and while we all have our opinions, I don't think it's the most important thing right now. I don't think any explanation can justify the damage that has been done to OP and the kids and the real truth may not come out until after years of counseling if ever.

OP:

First, sorry this happened. This story is heartbreaking. I basically agree with the post above
.
You're 100% on the right track. Almost too logical given the circumstances, but at least you recognize that.

1. See your attorney. If she'll give up any claims, and an agreement can be enforced, then take the deal. I don't know the laws down there. My concern would be that she could later claim she signed the agreement under duress. Again, a point for your attorney.

2. Get her into therapy.

3. Get you and the kids into therapy.

Unless your attorney suggests otherwise, I'd stay away from the other couple. Your situation is messy enough without involving other unknowns. The only reason to engage with them before legal matters are decided is if you want to pursue fraud/paternity/interference claims and have a reasonable chance of success.

[This message edited by recovering2018 at 7:58 PM, Monday, February 14th]

_________________________________

Me- H/BS 50s
Her- WW 40s
Married 20+ years with minor children
D-Day 2017, 6 week EA

posts: 105   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2018   ·   location: United States
id 8716185
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 4:19 AM on Tuesday, February 15th, 2022

What’s the common wisdom here? Any advice?

Only you can decide what is best for you. There are many factors to consider.

Seek legal advice.

Then figure out what is best for you. Perhaps a post nup would be something to consider. I have one. Just in case.

It is possible your marriage can survive this. If you are both all in and willing to work hard together to restore the marriage to something you can both live with.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 12 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 14857   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8716293
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NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 7:35 AM on Wednesday, February 16th, 2022

My thoughts are with you and your boys, SHSA. I hope that you are getting support IRL and that you are taking some space to breathe and think.

Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 671   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8716486
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seaandsun ( member #79952) posted at 1:11 PM on Wednesday, February 16th, 2022

You can't trust a word from your wife.
You really don't need to explain yourself.
What's happened/done doesn't need words.

They had a relationship that lasted for years. She gave birth to two children from AP and watched you grow the fruits/proofs of your love/betrayal. (you can't decorate , you're number 2)

She started working for AP and turned AP's scum as a "business wife". she also left herself in a difficult situation financially. (I think there will be other AP's as well.)

The father of your AP children will always be in your spouse's life, I'm sure he can be reached anytime, your wife informed ap when you noticed the relationship (after the DNA talk).

wss usually take all the blame for their ap (protecting their kids' father)

(Don't talk to him! He is so bad, his wife is so bad, I paid the price, I suffered, you have no idea what she did to protect her marriage! etc.)

You can offer a lie detector. You should ask for a timeline (how many people and how many years) about the relationship(s). You have to cover up a little.

(Don't be too hard on yourself, your wife knows you can't get divorced, she's just being nice to save her pride. If you get divorced, she will force the conditions.)

posts: 77   ·   registered: Feb. 16th, 2022
id 8716498
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Odonna ( member #38401) posted at 10:33 PM on Saturday, February 19th, 2022

I hope the OP feels safe to come back and post.

There are many who are thinking of you....!

posts: 978   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2013   ·   location: Northern Virginia
id 8717437
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 2:14 PM on Sunday, February 20th, 2022

SHSA -

OP, your story is one of the most horrific I've ever seen on this board, if not the worst.

You are not in a place to think clearly right now. YOu may think you are, but really, this is just too much for you to dissect at this time. So start with IC and get some help there. We can parse through the letter and I think the experience of the board is usually spot on.

Facts:

Your wife wanted to start an affair, though she said she gave that up
Your wife went back to the same guy for the affair, so you have to imagine that she had and continued to have feelings for this guy.
Your wife cheated on you, not once, but over a long period of time
Your children were conceived by the POSOM
Your wife cheated on your for a long time, and hid those details, hid the paternity of your children for a decade
Your wife hid everything at work from you also for a decade. She has lied to you in the most horrific way possible.
Your children are not yours biologically, but you raised them
Your wife stole a huge part of your life from you, a decade of your life.

Those are the facts. There are no assumptions, those are just the facts. There doesn't need to be a case built on justification, or her motives. That just doesn't matter. Even if what she wrote in that letter was what she felt, and it was true, I have to say SO WHAT? YOu have the facts above.

Take her offer now, and have her sign over what you believe to be FAIR. We cannot judge what is fair, but she owes you. So while she is offering you an easy D, which is what you said you were leaning towards, take that offer NOW dude. It won't get any easier for you. You get to decide what is FAIR, but make no mistake, it won't always be this easy for you, so the advice from the board is to take that offer. YOu can always give her back more later if you feel the need, but she may never again feel this much guilt to give you an easy road out.

You can even decide to R later on, but at least they will be on your terms and you will have been financially protected. That and go to IC, those are your two best individual pieces of advice at this point.

I second this, as much as I got from how your confrontation went is that you were never really part of the equation. When you had virility issues your wife didn't wait for your medical treatments to show progress, she jumped straight to AP and let him knock her up and never once consulted you about it, she took your choice to make a decision. She did this twice, maybe you were gonna be okay with it, if presented you were never going to be capable of fathering children. But you never had that moment together. Now she freaks out about it, she needs you for HER children, she knows that AP will never be a father figure for HER children, she knows that she alone can't give HER children what they need. Be suspicious, don't let her guilt you into accepting responsibilities you were never intended to have.

posts: 106   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8717530
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 1:58 PM on Monday, February 21st, 2022

Bump

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
----------------------------------
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 799   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8717764
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:41 PM on Monday, February 21st, 2022

The OP hasn’t posted for over 10 days. If he comes back he can easily find his thread and bump it up if he feels a need to.
The same rules apply on SI as do with real-estate: location is the key issue. Page 1 on the JFO has space for about 20 active threads. Let’s focus on those that are current and being updated. There really isn’t much more anyone can say on this thread without more input from the OP.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 13233   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8717777
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Sordid ( member #50143) posted at 11:18 PM on Monday, February 21st, 2022

I exchanged a PM with OP during his first gap between messages. I won't share most of the contents of that messaging, but I feel comfortable mentioning two things:

1. He works a lot, and work can be busy for him. "Busy with work" can mean radically different things depending on your job; "busy at work" for me meant working a minimum of 12 hours a day, every day (including weekends, holidays, etc.), from December 10th 2021 until December 28th 2021, with the only exception being Christmas Day itself. I cancelled vacation that had already been approved, and made two people who report to me cancel a total of 3 vacation days (collectively). Most of those weekdays were around 15 hours/day, not the minimum of 12. (In case anyone's curious, I work in cybersecurity; feel free to google 'log4j2' if you want an idea of what was going on that demanded all that time.)

So when he says he's busy with work, I don't know what that means for him, but it's certainly possible that he has so little free time, which he's using to actually deal with his wife, that he hasn't found time to come online and update a thread in a community that he's been part of for less than a month.

2. People laid on the 2x4s very quickly and with great force, and he definitely noticed. His story is so awful, many people jumped directly to the, "Open up your eyes, man, divorce is the only solution!" stage, and bypassed two important stages that usually come before that: (1) "Let's talk through all the alternatives, and see the pros and cons of each." (2) "Wow man, I feel terrible for you. I'm thankful I never endured anything like that, but let me share the most painful part of what finding out felt like to me, and how I got through it."

He did feel the force of the 2x4s, and he did think about whether he wanted to continue here or not. He came to the conclusion that he did, and wrote two long posts about 10 days ago, after we had exchanged messages. So it's possible he's changed his mind, and doesn't plan to post anymore. Whether he did or not, I do think that it behooves everyone who thinks a 2x4 upside the head is necessary, to at least pause for a minute or two, if the new member is going through the "finding out" stage. There is plenty of time to break out the big guns a week or a month after they start posting. You can't help someone who abandons the site, and spending the first few days offering support and helping the person sort through their feelings, while maybe offering some gently phrased advice, seems like it would maximize the chances of someone sticking around long enough to eventually endure people beating on them to shake them out of their denial. I think for the most part, this site gets this right, but when someone has a really extreme story (like finding out the children you raised aren't your biological offspring), it does seem like, as a community, we get ahead of ourselves, rather than nurturing the BS through the initial stages of dealing with this knowledge.

“One of the cruelest things you can do to another person is pretend you care about them more than you really do.” Douglas Coupland

posts: 225   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2015
id 8717935
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:13 AM on Tuesday, February 22nd, 2022

Amen to point #2 Sordid.

posts: 1004   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8717955
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