SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I normally try to be supportive and fair to both parties. But; if you believe her story, I have a bridge for sale.
Sorry but a coordinated orchestrated fairytale directly from unicorn fart land.
Grown ups don’t have weekend of self pleasure with a new beau.
One day at a time.

Metonymy

Based on the methodical way you handled everything so far, I would find it hard to believe that you would believe any piece of this ridiculous story she spouted to you. If I am wrong, I think you cannot be helped.

When they are caught, the behaviors usually fall into one of a few categories.
(1) they come clean and try to repair
(2) they sex bomb you and try to make you rug sweep
(3) they continue to spout lies and verbal garbage

We do not know your wife, but probably most people involved in affairs do not plan to leave their spouse and most probably still think they love them. But the one thing that will certainly doom any chance for you to salvage this, should you want to and only you can decide that, is if you do not get the truth in order to make an informed decision. And from her behavior so far, you are going to in my opinion have to play some big boy hardball, starting with her finding a different hotal to work at, followed by a written timeline and a polygraph to verify it.

The reason I think almost everyone thinks you need to dump her is so far she has not exhibited any inclination to do anything necessary but rather is counting on you to cave.

There is a saying here that "you must be willing to lose your marraige in order to save it". Until SHE believes that is your position, you are unlikely to get what you need from her. I suggest you stand your ground and make no concessions at all, and when you are ready make your final decision.

Good luck to you.

You did nothing wrong. You are unlucky to be in this situation. You are lucky, however, that she doubled down on the betrayal. In my years of being here the only worst thing than the betrayal are waywards who manipulate their spouses for years. You have the benefit of having a black and white discussion.

We all have bad things that happen in life. We can bemoan our situations or simply stand up, tighten our belts and do what has to get done. Continue to sever in the admirable stoic way that you have. The worst part is over. Now there is just some administrative work that needs to be done. You can also begin addressing your own emotions with friends, families, counselors, etc.

Sorry you are here man. You're an impressive and admirable guy....if that means anything coming from an anonymous internet pseudonym.

It's really unbelievable the fiction most waywards invent to squirm out of their guilt, shame and any related accountability. It's like hearing a sales pitch for a bad b-movie script. Of course trying to "save their marriage" is a part of it too but for many it appears avoiding the guilt, shame and condemnation is the bigger part.

You've taken a hard line with her since the confrontation, congratulations for that. Most WS act like your WW is acting now. Trickle truth, mood swings, sex bombing etc. Some of them come around to really develop remorse but it usually takes a while for that to happen. It doesn't matter if you are set on D but you seem to have at least a little consideration for potentially offerring her R. If that continues to be the case, realize that WS take time to grapple with the enormity of what they've done. The shame and guilt seem to produce lies and rationalizations for some time before they turn it around. And that's if you're lucky because many WS never turn it around. Seeing yourself as the villain in your own movie is not something everyone can accept and deal with.

I sincerely admire those few that are able to deeply grapple with it. And those are the ones where you have the potential for a true, successful R.

There's really nothing to save here. I realize that you loved who you thought she was and the life you had together, but gently while this may have been true on your side it was nothing but an act on hers. I still stand on the thought that she likely actively recruited to be her husband role while she was likely already involved in with the AP. The facts all line up with this. The almost immediate cessation of sex after marriage. The sudden affair. The brazenness of her attempted deception following your altercation last week. Her feeble attempts to coerce you back into position. That shows a level of indifference to you and your well being that is callous beyond which a normal person is capable. Run don't walk free of her.

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies and support. This is a good place.

First, I want to answer a few recurring questions and clear a few things up.

I am still in shock, definitely grieving, and quite depressed, so what I post here takes on the form of a ‘report’. Especially with two of my last posts, where I had a lot to report, it was easier to cite the facts and not dive too deeply into my responses to them.

But to be clear: no part of me believes the masturbation story. Okay, that’s not 100% true. I mean: it seems so odd a story, and frankly somehow more embarrassing than them just having straight up sex, that part of me believes it. I know that that belief comes from a wounded, misguided place: a stupidly hopeful place, thinking, ‘Well, if they haven’t had p-i-v- sex, maybe this is somehow salvageable…’. But overall, it is risible in the extreme and hopefully, one day, when I have much much greater distance from all of this, I will actually be able to generate laughter at its thought.

Second, I should clarify that under no conditions will my wife be visiting me here. I reported that because that’s what she said. My actual response to her offer was to say that I consider that a deeply manipulative ploy on her part: that the very source of my agony—her deliberate withholding of sex to me; her choice to have sex with another man—is somehow to be turned into our salvation. I told her she was sick and needed help.

I should also clarify that OBS and I have both told our spouses that we have seen the Word doc in its entirety, and that we have proof of their overnight at the hotel. Sorry. I forgot to mention this. My wife initially had the cheek to berate me for ‘snooping’ in her computer. I calmly pointed out that there would have been no need for me to do so if she had proven herself to be a trustworthy partner.

Finally, with regard to my wife’s previous marriage: I don’t think there is any ‘fire’ or even ‘smoke’ there when it comes to infidelity. They had plenty of issues, but her having a wandering eye wasn’t one of them.

Ultimately, where I am at this very moment is that I am through with her. Everyone has different thresholds, especially around betrayal; for a variety of complex reasons, infidelity is, for me, one of those irrevocable sins.

If you asked any of the women I have dated in my lifetime—whether for a few months or for several years—while they might be happy to share many of my flaws (!), one flaw they would NOT cite is "poor communicator." I am of the profound belief that good communication is the heartwood, the core, of all healthy relationships. And that, above all, infidelity is not—ever—a means of working through problems. You should be able to communicate through any problems.

What I have extracted from the hundreds and thousands of helpful words written to me here is this, above all: when it comes to the wake of infidelity, and when the betrayed evaluates the betrayer’s suitability for any form of reconciliation, actions are everything.

My wife’s actions—from the outset and right through to this moment—convey utter disrespect and a complete absence of remorse. I wrote these very words to her not a few hours ago. (She has yet to reply.)

Where I am at this moment is that I will be serving her with divorce papers next week; I will ask for no contact from her for several months; and I’m going to proceed with the expectation that this relationship is unsalvageable.

That all said, I don’t know how I would feel if—out of nowhere, and unexpectedly—she started displaying all the actions associated with the ideal remorseful cheating spouse. Though, even if she did, it may well be too late.

Darn it! I knew I forgot something.

OBS reconnected with me this morning by text. We are going to have a phone catch up tomorrow – just to compare notes, commiserate, etc. She has kicked her husband out of the house. Both her sister and mother are staying with her, which is great. Not sure what her plans are, moving forward, but I get the sense that it is going to be more difficult for her to move on from him.

Oh and: basically, all his major relationships have ended because of his cheating! The reasons why she chose to take him on are complex and not appropriate for this medium.

I think he, for sure, could be in major trouble at his work and maybe my wife too. It’s the least they deserve.

Kudos to how you have handled things so far. I can assure you, many of us, when freshly betrayed, made many, MANY more mistakes.

The one thing that I can't stress enough, is to protect yourself financially. I've seen the injustice way too many times, for a cheater to decimate the marriage, yet the BS pays a heavy financial price via divorce. You have done well for yourself prior to this relationship and marriage, and I know that your consult eased many of your concerns. But my look from the spectators view is that this marriage is at most a couple of years old. She has been inappropriate for half that time....that you are aware. If you do 'reconcile', the marriage clock doesn't start over. That time accrued, if you divorce later, works against you.

I'm also a fan of reconciliation if both partners are committed. So why not try again...if you both saw that as an option in the future....as a divorced couple starting anew? You're protected, and can invest as deeply as you see fit. As can she. But the financial element is resolved. Look up a thread by a poster YHGTBKM(you have got to be kidding me). He had assets prior, he firmly divorced, and his ex wife was able to come back for more legal compensation than in the initial divorce. Their marriage was longer, and with that came more entitlements....cheater or not.

Just something to think about.

Thank you for the update. You are doing well. Be careful. She seems to be the type that, once she figures out what you want to see, could easily shift and act that way. I would suggest that you divorce no matter what. If you reconcile, you can remarry after a pre-nup is signed.

I guess you can't stop her from entering the house.

your wife is not healthy, losing you will, bring a lot of additional problems for both the children and herself, her ex-husband, children and friends will not believe even if she tells new lies. She may have outbursts of anger

you should add a few cameras inside/outside the house. Your wife may now try to come home (to your bed) late at night, beg to approach you, argue, blame. may make different charges to the police for you. Evaluate the likelihood of such situations occurring.

Be sure to change the locks after your attorney approves.

Trying not to be too graphic but a GF and I in a LDR thought doing the masterbation shtick would be hot the next time we got together...It was, but soon hands wandered, then mouths.
So take her explanation with a 50lb bag of salt. It may have happened her way.

TBH They cooked up this explanation as something "more acceptable" than regular sex... what a couple of dopes.

But to be clear: no part of me believes the masturbation story.

Excellent.. I think it's unanimous, then?

I don't want to retread the ridiculous here, I know this crap is painful. Just.. notice how they fall back on that one with such energy and conviction. "I didn't actually have the other man's penis in me", or "I didn't put my penis in the other woman, so there, it's all great, see"? This is sampling of what I call the last chapter in the Cheater's Handbook, Chapter Four: So You've been Caught, What Next?

As if the mental specter of them mutually masturbating all weekend to erotically charge up the weekend was somehow what you and the OBS wanted to hear! "Oh well, nothing wrong here! Let's go back home.. maybe we can stop for some pancakes on the way"

What they both didn't bank on is that their disgusting fallback story is almost worse than any tawdry PIV sex admission. You are both supposed to go back to the way things were? To be attracted to them physically, as spouses? To trust them again? That's the expectation, right? JUST because their genitals didn't connect? Like you believe that one.

To quote my favorite refutation, "Yeah, and I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot". (Ash, Army of Darkness)

I don't mean to make light of a truly miserable situation, but I will say this-- we have every one of us been in this place.. and many of us, and I include myself in that have not handled things nearly as well. I am the way I am today because I've had four (I just had my own anti-anniversary recently) years of therapy and recovery. I'm at a place where I am actually resigned to what happened and even, dare I say it, happy from time to time. Where you are heading is fraught with uncertainty and yes, loneliness. Yet, it is a place where you can make your own decisions, and show yourself that you have a moral center. Sometimes, that is everything. It is to me. You'll come out of the darkness, friend, and I have a feeling you'll be around to help out others as well. You've done well. It's far from over, but you made a decision and you stuck with it. Just be strong and make practical decisions. You can't control her-- but you can control yourself, and that's all the power you ever needed.

Very impressed with how you have handled yourself in this very difficult circumstance.

I agree a million times over that communication is the lodestone of a healthy relationship. And based on how you express yourself here, I have no doubt you express yourself clearly in your relationships, including your M.

But make no mistake, your WW’s infidelity had nothing to do with any lack of communicating or failure to be clear on your expectations for fidelity. Any intimation by your WW that her infidelity was caused by your failure to communicate is pure made up out of desperation hogwash.

As with so many WS, the reason your WW cheated is because she wanted to do it. Period. End of story.

Now, most importantly, take care of you. You have undergone a huge emotional trauma and the aftershocks are still coming. Trust me. Eat healthy. Exercise. Get into activities or hobbies that occupy your mind. Get extra rest if you can. See a good counselor. Good luck.

I am of the profound belief that good communication is the heartwood, the core, of all healthy relationships. And that, above all, infidelity is not—ever—a means of working through problems. You should be able to communicate through any problems.

You were certainly clear in your response to her accusing you of cheating. That she went through with last weekends romp immediately afterwards should be the first thing you consider if you have any thoughts of remaining even friends with her. Keeping walking your path. You're doing better than most have.

[This message edited by grubs at 7:22 PM, Thursday, February 17th]

Those who want to cheat create opportunities.

she thought that she had the right to have an affair, that she could do it without getting caught.

If she had not thought of getting caught and acted carelessly, they could have continued the relationship for years in the working environment.

ap manager is someone who draws attention in the workplace, showing interest in your wife and thinking about her comfort in her career or working environment is enough to start the relationship. (she wanted to be with ap, she wouldn't have slept if she didn't like it)

The weekend frenzy has been too much, but they have lived in the past. If you didn't see the messages, it wouldn't be a problem again.

You didn't observe her during your marriage, and she was relieved about security. you caught the messages from him.

she can't confess her relationship history to you, you pass it on to AP's wife. must protect the ap first. she is trying to keep the ap in its place and with it.

You are handling everything quite well at this stage. Keep it up. I can understand, at this stage, that you still harbor a tiny element of hope that if she does a complete 180 and becomes a remorseful spouse you would consider R. Please remember that she was quite adept at hiding what she was all about for a little over one year into your relationship. She flipped almost immediately after your marriage. She became a different partner overnight. How could you ever take a chance with her again no matter how remorseful she might become? She is extremely damaged or extremely calculating. Close the book forever on this one. That is my advice. I forgave the ex-WW's first affair. It got me nowhere. She cheated again.

But to be clear: no part of me believes the masturbation story. Okay, that’s not 100% true. I mean: it seems so odd a story, and frankly somehow more embarrassing than them just having straight up sex, that part of me believes it.

There’s no reason that it can’t be true, in the sense that this specific activity actually may have occurred. That two adults alone in hotel rooms over the course of months actually stopped at that point is, of course, a blatant lie. Both waywards obviously agreed to use this snapshot of their affair to try and convince their spouses that this was the full extent of betrayal.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 2:30 PM, February 17th (Thursday)]

While it is still awfully painful you are still doing very well, taking appropriate action.

As I wrote before, if she truly starts working a meaningful rebuilding plan that’s fine, but does not preclude divorce. It would take years to become a safe partner for you or anyone else. I actually hope she does do that work. It would show character.

But that doesn’t mean she has to be your wife while she takes the next 2-5 years to work thru her deamons.

I don’t mean to laugh at your pain at all, but it still strikes me every few hours how ridiculous her excuse was.

oh im sorry honey, I didn’t know that "foresaking all others" in our wedding vows included that I couldn’t take off all my clothes in front of another man, lay down on a bed with him and watch him stroke his penis while I fingered my vagina. My bad. Lesson learned. Noted from here on out ….

I’m sorry but it’s as if she’s saying that in itself shouldn’t be a reason for divorce.

And of course it’s absolutely the tip of the iceberg of what they actually did for 48 hours.

Anyway, I’m sorry if my glibness was painful. You just have to shake your head sometimes.

I really believe you are going to find someone real and with only your Interests at heart down the road. For now, continue on your path and take care of yourself. Hope you are enjoying the wildlife at least.

We’re in your corner.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:48 PM, Thursday, February 17th]

metonymy:

Slight t/j (sorry)

I am so very sorry you are having to endure this. It is such a sad waste. For you and anyone reading this wondering about the “whys” of infidelity, consider what has occurred in this instance. After a failed M, the WW in her late thirties with her two young boys part time, recently finds the OP, a caring and devoted person successful enough in his forties to be semi-retired, marries him and she works at a desirable job with a loving H. The OM in his fifties, with a good career, after a failed M, recently finds love and marries a woman in her late thirties with her own career, who is described as very attractive, even a trophy wife, and they have a very young child.

By all accounts an observer could say that after failed marriages, both the OP’s WW and the OM have hit the jackpot in life’s lottery. And yet they decide to throw it all away for NO GOOD REASON! Zero! Zip! Nada! And look at the trail of destruction: the OP, the OBS, the WW’s two boys have their life ripped apart again, the OM’s young child. Two marriages destroyed. Possibly two careers. All the immediate family’s. And for what?

Don’t ever try to make sense of it. As demonstrated here and time and again, it happens in good marriages, bad marriages, anytime any place. Pure selfishness with no consideration for others.

Very sad for all concerned.

Metonymy,

Even if her masturbation story is true, it's still a deeply erotic connection and even more so considering that your sex life in your marriage became sporadic and a tool for manipulation.

What she has confessed to is more than enough reason to divorce, but we all know that's not all.

Ask yourself has she ever masturbated in front of you?

Don't feel bad your WW is one of those women who changes once married and will do so for the rest of her life, it's not you.