SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations with any weekend intensives for infidelity? One that I was interested in is the EMS weekend, has anyone attended that?

If WW and I attend one I'll post a response letting you know what it was like.

Retrouvaille gets very good reviews. It's run by some organ of the Catholic Church, but I haven't read any report that the Catholicism is intrusive.

There's a retrouvaille org that has a lot of info about the program and it's history.

I think they aim to cover costs, not make a profit, so it's reasonably priced.

We went to Retrouvaille. The focus wasn’t on religion (we aren’t Catholic). We found it very helpful.

Thank you so much, I will check them out. The one thing I see that is a little troubling for me at this stage of the game is from the website, my emphasis added:

A team of three couples and a priest gives a series of presentations. All presenting couples have been through Retrouvaille. They have all experienced disillusionment and pain in their own marriages. They offer hope as they share their pain, struggles and successes in rebuilding their marriages. You will be encouraged to put the past behind you and start rediscovering each other.

The situation is that WW is starting to accept responsibility for the cheating, and I'm concerned that this attitude of "the past is the past" will basically halt that progress.

We did EMSO, the weekly, online version of AR's weekend intensive. XWH barely did the homework, didn't use the information to change, and we're now D.

I feel AR is lenient toward the WS, but my view may be tainted by our situation.

leafields:

I would like to know more about your experience when you say AR is lenient, I was thinking of asking WW to attend the EMS weekend with me because their videos look good and appear to value accountability of the WS.

Or PM me if you could if you prefer.

There is another one that looks very good, a Focus on the Family weekend intensive which isn't strictly about A but looks good still.

The program seems to be more of a "let's save the M" type. As a BS, I was supposed to get my flooding under control & not let my WS deal with my irregular emotions. There were a few times when the curriculum seemed to rugsweep. But that could just be my filter on the topic at hand. My XWH would wait until the last minute to work on his homework, so he didn't take the time to change.

In case anyone is curious, this was a very helpful part of a response I received back from the AR folks:

I can tell you that Rick's approach is that you deal with the infidelity first before any resentment or issues prior to the fallout of the infidelity. I'm sure that's music to your ears. But we'll explain it to her in a loving way that she can understand why you can't discuss those pre-infidelity issues yet and more often than not, they understand.

WW agreed to go and I feel this would be a good step.

Sounds like a good approach. I hope it meets your expectations. When do you go?

We're signed up for April with the possibility of March.

In some of the prep that they send you is a paper The Reality of Affairs. One of the main tenets that I really liked reading that I'm glad we'll be addressing are three main indicators of a couple being able to successfully move beyond it.

The WS taking responsibility for their choices
Having empathy for their spouse
Having a good marital history before the A.

In order of importance they are (1) Empathy and (2) taking responsibility.

HCSDI I hope this helps you and it is good that your ww agreed to go.

But.

Here again, you are doing all the work. You're doing the research. You're signing up for things. You're paying for it. You're leading her towards that R pool and convincing her to get in.

What is SHE doing? IMHO, she needs to be doing the lion's share of effort towards R, and thus far has done literally almost nothing. The only times she has done anything, it's because you did 99.57% of the effort to get it done.

Just be careful that you aren't Ring yourself into a situation where you're going to be doing all of it and she doesn't put in any effort beyond an insultingly bare minimum - just IME, that generally builds a lot of resentment in the BS and is not conducive to the kind of long-term changes the ws needs to be making and to the BS's healing.

I would have to agree with Ellie. You cannot want to save your marriage more than your WW does. She has to be the one lifting the heavy stones at this point. You may just end up jaded down the road.

Make sure you are getting the commitment you deserve HCSDI. Its been over a year now since your DDay. How are you doing? HOw is the WW doing?

Gotta echo Ellie here. I also explored a bunch of infidelity retreats. AR was not on my list, but those who did call back and interview basically said that my WH was not ready for what they had to offer (which I gotta say, was actually a GOOD thing for ME, in that it was kind of pivotal for me to realize that my energy was focused on trying to DRAG him into R... which just doesn't seem to work - or didn't for me). That was 2+ years ago, and my bet is if I called again today for an interview, I'd get the same answer.

Our time is a reflection of our PRIORITIES; we put effort into the things that are IMPORTANT to us.

Me and my WH did it middle of December. To me it was worth it. It definitely made him get it a little more. We went through affair recovery. He is also doing hope for healing through them as well. He started that in September/December. Just finished that last week. He has even gotten to the point of wanting to be a group leader at some point. It definitely made him do alot of self reflection.

[This message edited by Felix12306 at 1:09 AM, Tuesday, February 15th]

I side with Ellie. Everyone sides with Ellie. It is true, I do all the work. Every idea is mine. Every suggestion, every proposed next steps are mine.

The therapist was supportive of doing an intensive, and thought it was a great idea. Week after last after an EMDR session the therapist told me that WW is not able to lead any recovery or reparative efforts yet. WW is pretty broken and messed up. Tell me something I don't know. She thinks WW will be able to at some point.

WW wants to stay married and is willing to keep trying, but is very avoidant. A concept like "you are responsible for how you treat your spouse no matter how they treat you" pissed her off. A concept of "you apologize for your actions and your behaviors only. You don't apologize for people's reactions or their feelings" made her sit silent, not saying anything.

So I wanted to do an intensive as something else to try.

I'm feeling more in control of things and seeing her as broken more and more. It still doesn't get easier when she says shit like "I'm sick of being sad" and "You just want me to be sad along side you" but it does make a huge difference when the therapist is helpful.

I commend you for your wholehearted efforts HCSDI.

In order of importance they are (1) Empathy and (2) taking responsibility.

How empathetic a person do you feel your WW is?

People have differing levels of empathy. Some people have no empathy. Some people can have so much empathy they're actually tormented by it. If your WW has little or no empathy she will never be able to understand the trauma she has caused in you. If she doesn't understand the trauma she's caused in you I'd respectfully suggest she wont be motivated to initiate much if any of the 'work' required herself.

Maybe she can 'learn' to be more empathetic?

Felix
That's awesome! Can you describe a little what it is like? What are the small groups like? Are there activities for just the WS and just the BS? Is there any attention from a counselor for WW and I and our situation?

And what is the after care like?

So basically you are in a small group. Usually about 4 or 5 couples. Each of you have a therapist assigned to you. We got Rick which was nice. Each couple gets 1 hour long session with him alone. The rest is done with him as a group. And then everybody there all the different groups watch different talks from him as well. There is one time where the betrays and the waywards break off separately and work with a therapist. There are activities that you both have to do. They have to do one called a hurt letter and they have to do one where they name 40 things that they have caused you to lose through their affair, they also have to list triggers too. It really makes them look at everything. And you read those things to each other in front of your small group. After the weekend ends you get set up with mentors that have walked our path and you get 6 weeks with them. It's a weekly 90 minute phone call. After that your group has material to set out on its own to continue working on things.

The biggest challenge that your reconciliation has faced from the very beginning is that you want to rebuild but your wife wants to avoid divorce. The distinction between these 2 things is that you're trying to create a completely new relationship while she just wants a return the status quo.

Back when you were on the cusp of filing for divorce, your wife roped you back into therapy on the basis of finding out whether saving the marriage was possible. Your MC/joint IC has told you that your wife is incapable of taking a proactive role in your reconciliation, which puts you right back where you started at the beginning: you're doing all the heavy lifting, single-handedly carrying the weight of her infidelity and dragging her from one reconciliation-oriented activity to another while she kicks back like a queen on a palanquin.

Before you fund your therapist's next Tesla payment in the hopes that she can give your wife a character transplant and throw thousands of dollars into a weekend intensive, you need to put some serious thought into the following questions and put benchmarks in place:

-At what point do you stop doing the heavy-lifting and insist that your wife be the driving force behind this process? Are you depending on your therapist to tell you when your wife is ready or are you prepared to enforce your own limits?

-What are you goals for MC and this weekend intensive? How will meeting those goals benefit you, your, wife and marriage? What will you do if those goals aren't met? What if they're met but the benefits don't last long or aren't as transformative as you expected?

-In what ways are you holding your wife accountable for what she does or doesn't do through out this reconciliation process? Is she holding her end of the bargain, and if not, what are willing to do about it?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:18 PM, Tuesday, February 15th]

Blue
Thank you again as always. The short answer is I don't know when I'll run out of gas. I don't believe WW will ever be the driving force I want to heal the marriage. I have a couple small boundaries in place because I'm very hurt she won't apologize and restore for some damage she did after the A, and those boundaries I suspect will be there until death because she has totally dug in her heels. I don't get it, but there it is.

What I'm hoping for is what Felix had said, that it seemed to move the needle to her WS "getting it." That WW will be more willing/able to see my side and approach the situation toward healing and restoration. I want to break a classic stalemate; she has told me basically everything I have expressed to her, that she feels I'm ignoring her needs, I'm the one digging in my heels and not her, I'm refusing to meet her needs to move on, I'm refusing to forgive her and just lording that over on her. She said she's sorry, what else do I want from her, etc.

Taking weekends off to do this is difficult for her, and she has agreed to do it. She has a commitment to most past it, and is very frustrated that I can't give her an end date. I don't think she believes me that it doesn't work that way. But she is sincere that she wants things to improve and it is very slowly.

So I don't know when this ends. So long as there is still progress I can keep going. I'm not really angry anymore, just very disappointed.

Felix
That sounds awesome, I'm so looking forward to it. They're very booked so we're looking at April. How did your WS handle the exercises? I think my WW will do them but I can't guarantee she won't be defensive as hell about it. I really, really love the idea of her being in the company of other waywards and hoping for a change of heart. She might not have a change of heart, but being there with other waywards I think will give her the perspective that it isn't just me. Infidelity wrecks things deeply for everyone.