SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is

fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.

This 180 list may help.

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For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.

bump

Thanks for this list. Take care, cd

bumpity bump

I like this list A LOT. WH is not seeing OW, but still has not learned healthy boundaries. I started behaving this way a few weeks ago, and the progress I have seen in our communication is tremendous. I still have some setbacks, althought they are few and far between. WH is really shaping up, and you know what, so am I!!

Good for you Newstart!

It does make sense (in NOT ALL) but in some situations to step back from our spouse a bit.

It helps keep our sanity - what we have left of it - and hopefully get some clarity in our situation.

The only thing we can control is ourselves.

My best to you.

Thanks for the list.

Are we suppose to do this when our spouse won't step up? Or after Dday?

My H wants to continue on as if nothing happened. No counseling, NC with OW, he just made a mistake.

[This message edited by Rene at 4:36 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)]

Rene,

I am NOT an expert, actually fairly new to all of this.

I have to say, after reading your profile, you have been thru alot, and for that I am sorry.

You can only do what is best for you. Your husband sounds like he has some serious 'issues' that should not be swept under the rug. It does not sound like he is doing all he can to help you heal right now, don't feel alone, my husband isn't doing this either!

He made a 'mistake' yet continues to make the same 'mistakes' with the same results. I am living that too.

The only thing you can do is decide what do YOU want out of your life? You do not have to make any major decisions today, not even next week or next month, but start to think about what kind of life you want to live, what kind of peace in your heart, what kind of marriage do you want.

My counselor asked me these questions last week and I have thought alot about this.

I don't have all the answers, never will probably.

I think by detaching from my H a little, I can see things more clearly though, and that helps me.

My best to you, whatever you decide.......

Thanks so much, I can see those things would be hard to do if the person is in your face everyday...

My WH has left and has not said if or when he will come back....

I am going to do these things for myself, so I can try to make it through this Holiday Season...

I am going to copy it and read it over and over until I commit it to memory for now...

Thanks for all the help everyone!!

You are all the answer to my prayer to God to help me find the strength the endure this..

Leftandalone,

I am sorry for your situation. You are not alone...you have us here at S.I.

You are so right... do what YOU need to do to cope. Whatever it takes...'fake

it till you make' it as someone once said.

Lean on your family and friends and you will find strength you never knew you had!

Michelle, who I lived round the corner from, describes 180 also as the last ditch effort. She says that it might work, but at the very least, if it doesn't work, it helps to preserve self respect.

I went to her for counseling. It did help because my WS did notice - profoundly. At that time I didn't know what was going on, only that the marriage was on shaky ground. I mention this from time to time, the problems that ended our marriage were not marital problems including the cheating. It wasn't something that I could do or change maritally that would make a difference. I would have quietly excused myself and hung up the first time he called, ending it there, had I known what he was.

Wow thanks for this great list!!

Sigh. I wish I had seen this list months ago. I think I would be in a much better place had I done these things earlier. I'm going to follow the list for a while, at this point I'm at a loss for how else to behave with the WH. We had been doing better, but we just had a major setback. He says he feels too much guilt and pity for me, I don't need his pity, maybe if he sees I'm really moving on he'll see what he is going to lose.

I'm sorry Bunny. Those 'setbacks' are rough.

At first, I was a wreck, then read all the books and went to counseling for months and months....tried to be all HE needed and fix this marriage.

Nothing.

Long story short the only thing we can change is ourselves. Our lives, our thoughts, our reactions, our expectations, our choices.

This is a good way to gain some clarity, as I have said before. It is SO difficult to follow!!!! Very hard!

Try to stick with it and just watch how things start to improve.

It is not a game. It is a way to protect ourselves after all else has failed miserably.

Good luck to you and take care of YOURSELF.

I have found some peace in my heart I never knew I would feel again. You will too.

This is truly a great list, but how does one do a lot of these things with a crippling phobia which isolates them?

Since my WS has been stressing me out sooooo BAD, my driving agoraphobia has returned!

(Yes, I have also gone to IC).

The close by neighbor women are of NO help at all. I have asked them to go out to coffee all to no avail!

Any suggestions?

I might be slowly going MAD!!!

To dreamlife,

Have you ever heard of benzodiazepines? They are wonderful medications that help to ease the panic, until your strength and more "logical" thinking has returned. (I truly mean no insult by this!) "Benzos" include Xanax, Valium and Klonopin among others. There are also certain anti-depressants designed to help control anxiety specifically, like Paxil. There are others that help too, as anxiety is the "flip-side" of depression.

I, too, have suffered debilitating panic attacks. I never reached agoraphobia, but close. There are several things that will/can work.

The most important thing is to UNDERSTAND the panic attacks. You can do some reading to do this-or talk with your IC.

Basically, "panic" is your body's natural "fight" or "flight" response in overdrive! It usually begins and sometimes returns because we are extremely stressed out and our bodies are trying to tell us that we have too much on our plates-to pay attention-we can't take anymore.

It may be that your thoughts are overwhelmingly catastrophic (understandably so, if you are here!). If so, a cognitive-behavioral therapist or cognitive-behavioral therapy book might do the trick. It is extremely important to realize that your thoughts directly impact how you feel. Of course, how you feel leads to your behavior-either avoiding or seeking something, to be general.

What happens with panic attacks is that they may occur and scare you so terribly that you begin to be wary and hypervigilent for any sign of their return. You begin to fear their reoccurrence more than anything in this world, because they are so terifying and utterly debilitating!

With some medication and some understanding into your thought processes that lead up to the panic attacks (in your case while driving), you can grow to overcome this!

You may want to try Systematic Desensitization-just big words to describe taking tiny steps in facing feared situations or things. There are books on this also. For example, if you feared spiders, you might begin with a picture of a spider and sit with it until your anxiety reaches a tolerable level. Then, (after many tiny steps) eventually you would move to a real live spider and maybe even try to pet or hold it.

NO MATTER WHAT! YOU CAN DO THIS! It just may take some time.

I'll be praying for you!

Pdove

Ok, I'd like to add a rule to the list. "No unnecessary email contact. No email banter."

I had been really good at just responding with "I'm fine, thank you" when WH would ask how I was doing and inquire about the weather. Then he sent a slightly more friendly email and I got sucked into chatting, and then he clammed up on me when things got "too personal." Hello Asswipe, I'm pregnant with your child. It is hard to get much more personal than that. NOTE TO SELF: DO NOT ENGAGE IN WITTY EMAIL BANTER. Other than that, the list has been very useful lately.

bumping

Whack !

Bumping....

Take what you need and

leave the rest..........

This is a LAST resort - for those whose WS is

fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

for those of you who have a REMORSEFUL, hardworking FWS...give your marriage TIME and

go forward TOGETHER. You can do it !

[This message edited by tlsmi at 4:41 PM, March 27th (Monday)]