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I know exactly the feelings you are going through cNc. My WS was having an A for months with his Ex-fiance of 7 yrs ago. He claims he hates her now. But yet he goes back 2 wks ago to try to talk her into not taking him to court. BTW the OC is due Aug. 20th. The OW claims he said he wanted her back and she never knew he was married. He says opposite. I don't know how I will react with this other child. The OW is trying to take a restraining order against me saying I have been calling her and I made a threat. My H made the threat. I know it is not the OC fault but you can't help the way you feel. I have my 13th month S to think about. That is all that matters.

crazed,

I think,to answer your question (and consider yourself "lucky" he has no feelings for her), it is because it is now out of his control (and yours)and he wants to get past this God awful mistake he made with some emotional stability intact. You can not change the past; he made an egregious error that will now cost him both financial and emotional pain for a very long time (perhaps the rest of his life for the latter).

My H also has/had no feelings for the OW (and NC with the OC----who was an unfortunate pawn in this awful game OW's play), but as he says "you can't put the genie back in the bottle". You MUST move beyond it, how you choose to do that is an individual choice.

Do not add to your pain by trying to figure out where your H's head is. You said,"OC was conceived out of a drunk ONS". Why would you expect that he would have feelings for her under those circumstances? I don't understand your concern for how he should feel about her. Are you expecting him to have pity, sympathy, empathy...what? Hell, it was HER choice to complicate the issue even further by having the OC. He had no choice in that decision.He made a stupid, life-altering mistake that will affect many people both now and forever. It is up to him to figure out how he intends to deal with the consequences of his actions.

You take care of YOU, as best you can in this tragic and unfair set of cards you have been dealt.I hope I haven't upset you. I'm not feeling too well today and may have misinterpreted your post. I struggle myself with trying to "get out of my H's head" in this whole shitty mess, and keep the focus on *me* and my healing.

Take care

[This message edited by BeeTrayed at 2:39 PM, July 21st (Friday)]

It is not so much OC it is the fact that goes back to her at 3 in the morning to talk. He says he hates her but how do I know that is true. How do I not know that it is not a pawn in his game to have his cake and eat it too. How am I to know the truth when I all I have heard is lies? How do I distinguish the 2? My biggest fear is I am going to be in that court room and I am going to find out something new that H has not told me. I have given him every oppertunity. I can only forgive so much. If you keep forgiving for every lie than it gets to the point you are saying it is ok to lie. No hard feelings. I don't get upset that easy.

art2,

Time; you will know in time.

Try to think of it this way...could you be any more hurt than you already are by any future revelations?

Stay informed, as best you can to protect yourself. The rest will unravel as time goes by. I know it is not easy; prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Set boundaries if you feel that will help you in dealing with a possible "cakeman".

Easier said than done...

I think Bee said it perfectly. You can only take it one day at a time. Yesterday is only a memory now, and tomorrow doesn't exist at all. So, we only have today.

{{{hugs}}}

Wow, I find it more amazing everyday how many of us there are sharing this awful experience. My prayers go out to you all.

I want to respond to the comment someone made about hating the OW. Yes, it is easy to hate her, but I have come to the conclusion that she is just not worth that much emotional energy. Nor do I want her to hold that kind of power over me. In my case, the OW is incredibly selfish and short-sighted and looking to put the blame for all the poor decisions she made onto someone else so she does not have to be responsible.

Do I hate her? Its just not worth it.

Do I pity her? Yes. But I will never forgive her for the harm and pain she has caused me.

Does feeling some level of pity for OW/OC make me want to take action? Absolutely not! She brought this child into the world by her choice and stupid mistakes. Her headache and heartache of no husband and father to help her raise her child is her problem, not mine. Not one single bit.

Does my H hate her? I don't know because we don't discuss it. He has shown me everyday that he is trying to atone for his mistakes and is putting me and his family first. He has no malice toward the child, but also believes OW made the choice to bring a child into the world, fully knowing the situation, and it is her job to take responsibility and raise the child.

Bee-you are so right that only time can tell these things. For me it will be a year since dday in the next few weeks. It has been the toughest year I have ever lived through, but am FINALLY, FINALLY seeing the light on the other end of the tunnel.

This event of our lives is such a difficult test. I am sorry for all that have to go through this and pray for the strength and support to make the right choices and find happiness in spite of the difficulties.

Didn't someone once say, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?"

Hugs to you all.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 6:28 PM, July 24th (Monday)]

Art2 I can totally relate to your post. The OC is not due until Dec. he has been NC with her for 3 months since D-day but now wants to contact her to discuss support and visitation. I too am feeling like I could be being lead down the garden path and this may lead to him being back with her and it may take me another year to figure it out. They now have a legit reason to interact and see each other. The visitation is freaking me out the most because he is not being clear with me on how he thinks this will work. I can not handle him going to her place to see the baby and her. Besides that, she does not know about me which just adds to my uneasy feelings. He doesnt want to tell her because he is hoping to settle out of court with her and doesnt want to upset her anymore then she already is. I think he needs to be honest with everyone - including her. Right now she is angry but no doubt when he steps up to take responsibility for the child, she will start trying to bring him back into her life as well. How do I know he will not give in? 3 months from D day there just is not enough trust built up to go through this. My thoughts are with you Art2 & everyone else

crispy, he's sparing her feelings by not telling her about YOU? WTF?!

crispygal

Sorry that you are in this thread with the rest of us. My only advice is that if he wants a relationship with the child then it is with you by his side. I would not trust them to do the right thing when for the past year he hasn't been honest. Since the OW doesn't know about you yet she thought she was his girlfriend. I think that is different then most others in this thread. In my situation we are married with two small children and she knew the whole time about us. We have chosen NC mainly because I don't trust them to do what is right. I would welcome the child into my home but i will not stand by and let him visit at her home. And what I mean by not stand by is that I would remove myself from the situation and cut my losses. She may use the child as a pawn, in our situation it has been that way. And then you will hear the infamous words "the child is not at fault, it is an innocent child" That may be the case however you were innocent as well. How much are you willing to deal with? This is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life. It will be a long road and I wish you the best.

I agree with MadeItThrough, Crispy. Fuck her feelings! Was he thinking of yours when he went into the affair? I would think that if he truly is serious about it, he would think of you and you only.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part I guess.

art2 -

At first my H too was speaking with OW, so I understand and sympathize with your pain. From my experience, I can tell you that before you make rash judgements, it would help to understand why he is talking to her. Is he trying to smooth things over and get it behind him, handling it on his own and trying to reduce his own embarassment over the situation? Is that just as possible as him trying to decieve you? I think men sometimes just don't get it and want to fix it all on their own. My H was bowing to OW's phone calls, thinking he should get a cell phone so she wouldn't call him at work, etc., etc. He just didn't get that NC was the only way that I would be able to handle the situation, and that the more he talked to her, the more she would expect. It took us about 2 months to go completely NC, and require that all communication be only through our attny. At one point, I had my H include "my wife and I" in an email so that she would finally get the picture--man did that email piss her off! But in my case, OW knew all along my H was married, so perhaps it is more difficult for you and H. Sounds like your H needs to tell OW about you before even telling her that he is reconciling with you--I understand that may be very difficult and embarassing for him.

From all that I have read here, and my own experience - handling it without court while trying to reconcile just doesn't work. I would suggest trying to get your H to go NC and hire an attny. If your H has truly broken it off with her, there is no reason they need to talk about anything until baby is born and paternity is established.

Read some earlier pages on this thread- there is lots of good information about this situation that may help you.

Hugs to you.

[This message edited by twokidsmomny at 6:53 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

My H had an affair that he finally told me about in March of 2006. It lasted almost 2 years had as a result a child was born that will be a year old this Thursday. I also have a six month old son with my H. My H is attached to the OC and wants to see her but the OW won't let him do that on his own (even though he is legally entilted to) or if I am around. My H is affaid to go to court over visitation in fear of having to pay this woman more money than he already is each month. So I have to deal with him seeing his child with the OW. WE are trying to reconcile but all we end up doing is fighting about the OW. He swears that the A is over and he doesn't want this woman- he wants to be with me and his son. He regrets the A but can't give up his daughter. Has anyone been successful at truly reconciling when there is another child involved that your WS has sees along with the OW? Any advice from anyone reading would be great.

Scooter - Mine had a 3 year A and I found out when OC (girl) was 2.

I have the same situation. OW will not let him see OC, who he's very attached to, if she thinks I'm going to be around.

He will not go to court for the same reasons your H won't.

This is one of the main issues that prevented us from R. I found it totally unacceptable for him to see OW for visits with OC, even if it was just for pickup. I felt that if he was serious about R, he would take me with him when he picked up OC or go to court to force visitation if she refused because I was there. OW also calls him constantly and uses OC as reasons to call. I also found this unacceptable.

I have no advice because, as you can see, my R is over due to OW and OC and his inability to grow a set of balls.

I just wanted to say, I hope others have suggestions and I'll be hoping your situation turns out well.

(((HUGS)))

I have the same problems- she calls him on his cell when she knows I am not around (like while he is at work). he claims it is all about his daughter and i have now asked him to to answer and call her back when he is around me so that i can listen and he says he will. but i am having a very difficult time dealing with the fact that she won't let me be around the visits. they do meet in public places at my request (he was going to her house) so my H is making efforts to try to make things easier for me to deal with but as long as the OW is so involved with his visits and I am not, I can't find closure over the A. I need closure.

Scooter

Hello, I left a response on the reconciliation forum to your first post. As for the phone calls, our MC suggested that he only talk to her in my presence. So when the phone rings and I am not around he doesnt answer. When I get home then we call her together. It still makes me want to everytime he talks to her. She will use the child as a pawn. The OW in our sitaution wanted him to pay an outrageous amount to support the child, she went as far as detailing everything from spring water to swimming lessons, the kid is only 7 months. Meanwhile my children who are 6 and 3 go to swim lessons b/c my sister paid for it b/c we cant afford it. He lost his job of 21 years making 100k because of the affair and now makes $12 an hour and she still wants swim lessons for her kid. Thats how they are they could care less about you and your children. The think they are the victims and their child is innocent. Well I have news for them we the BS are the victims and our children are just as innocent. Don't let him steam roll you. I am sure he misses his daughter but that is a consequence of the deceit and betrayal they both created. It is about you right know. If you don't take care of yourself they could care less about you. I am almost positive she knew that he was married. And him how could he have kept that from you for 2 years, sorry but what a bastard! Decide for yourself what you are willing to put up with. Go see a counseler they can help but don't comprise yourself any longer for their stupidity and selfishness.

[This message edited by overdone at 2:46 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

Overdone is right. You need to decide what is good for you and YOUR child.

Here are my thoughts. If OW did not want you to be around OC then she shouldn't have gotten knocked up by a MM. By sleeping with YOUR H, she chose to have you in OC's life.

I feel the same way I felt in my own situation. OW is using OC to manipulate and to drive a wedge between you. She knows damn well that you don't want your H with her, but she is using OC to make that happen.

2 weeks yesterday my husband comes home and sits down next to me. Starts crying that he has done something really stupid. We have been married 7 1/2 years with a 5 year old little girl. We have been trying to have another baby since she was born but this last year it really tapered off.

Back to the couch. I had this awful feeling wash all over me. I asked him if he had cheated on me and he said yes and then it started spilling. And she got preg....

Wow, not I am in a state of shock I have never felt before. My daughter's birthday was in the begining of this month. The baby was born 4 days after her birthday and it was a boy, that is what we were hoping for and after more questioning I found out that she gave him the name I wanted to name our son. He said that it only happened twice and he felt so bad about it, he severe depresssed, lost 15 pounds and didn't want to tell me until now cause he knew that he would lose us. Great timing my daughter starts kindergarden in 1 month.

When I first asked him about it he tells me that he quit talking to her and was extremely sorry, he met her at the dry cleaners and they started talking. She complained about her husband and then I guess he started in in me. They slept together there at the dry cleaners. He said of course it was her idea and he went and was stupid. I told him he was stupid not using a condom or pulling out, God, he did that when we were dating. Now he is mad at the OW cause he says that she trapped him. She told one of the girls that she purposlyey got off her birth control pills and planned her cycle. Wow, I did that for years and it didn't work for me. He said that she called him 2 weeks ago and told him that the baby was born and he needed to take a DNA test. I fainted, I was throwing up and I even quit breathing a few times. I got mad, took down all the family pictures. Tired to beat the sh*t out of him. He didn'e evem know her last name. I asked how long have you known about her being with child and he said a couple of months. How times did you have sex with her, he said a couple of times he can't rememer. I left and came to my mother's house but I am having a REALLY hard time dealing with this. She has already brought the baby up to her work twice showung it off. He has not seen it yet he told me that he told her she was lying and needed to test her husband 1st and to stay away from him and his family. He says that he can't stand her. Well I guess he could 9 months ago. Last night I told him that he needed to take off of work till friday cause I am not emotionaly handleing this well and we need to talk. But the more talk the madder I get. I found out last night that he has know about her being preg. since DECEMBER and didn't want to ruin our christmas.........

He does not have the money for a test and they say the baby looks like him. But here is the deal the girl and her husband are white, mine is black.

Can't really argue with the eyes!!! He says that he doesn't think it is his. He will do anything for us and our marriage. Even move far away. And no one has to know about it. But this girl did not try to have his baby for nothing and to keep it quite. And then my mother in law tells me that I need to fight for my man. I can't even work now, I am too emotional. I want a divorce. I have no money, insurance through him and my daughter is crying all the time for him.I am so confused. People are telling me to go to counseling first, I am tommorow I have an appointment, and try to work things out. But that is so hard to do. The betrayal is there, and now a BABY. How am I gonna explain that one to my daughter. I am so hurt and comfused. Can you please help me I think I am going crazy. Has this situation every happen to any one and what are some steps that I need to do to get back to myself. Can a marriage really work when baby comes out of an affair? Is it really worth it? The whole town will eventually know. People are saying that they think this is not the first time he has done it and I have questioned him before but how do I go on with 600.00 a month and thats it?

Scooter--so sorry for you situation. Similar to mine. OW also refuses to have me involved--I got to meet OC once (he's 6 months old) and now she says that's it.

H agrees that it is not reasonable for him to see OC with just OW--the handful of times he has seen him, it was at the hospital, with her mother there, and once at day care (plus the uncomfortable visit with the three of us).

We are at a standstill for now. She calls re: OC issues, A is over, but I don't trust her or him yet for that matter. Lots of drama ahead, but luckily H is standing with me and we keep trying to brainstorm ways to see OC.

Unfortunately, I think with an OC situation where the WS wants contact, closure for us, the BS, is almost impossible. Our MC says it's like driving a car, over time if the A is over and there is no contact with OW, the A can recede in the rear view mirror til it's pretty distant. With contact with OC, OW and the A can never recede--keep creeping closer with every drama or visit or court thing or whatever. Makes it that much harder to reconcile.

People have done it--we're only 1 year out from d-day and still working hard. But I don't have any magic answers for your and my dilemma. Keep plugging away.

Ladies,

I'm not a lawyer but here's what ours told us...once paternity is established and an order is put in place re visitation, the OW has NO SAY SO in who is w/ your H when he sees the child. I know that many of you are afraid to go the court route, but I urge you to see a lawyer for a consultation (many don't charge) and find out what your and H's rights are. In our case, lawyer told us that we have a very very good chance of winning full custody of the OC should we seek to go that route (OW is not married). It's tempting to take the OC away from her...we are still in discussions w/ our lawyer for best strategy.

Also, another thing...check your state law but in many states, if the OW is married, then her H is automatically assumed to be the father of the OC. I don't know how this works when different races are involved but you should definitely try to find out. Whether OW's H is white or black may be a moot point in the eyes of the law. If that is the case, she can say whatever she wants and you always have the option to sue her for harassment or slander. It's definitely worth a look and well worth any lawyer fees to put her back under the rock she crawled out from under.

Hugs to you all,

BW

I thought this needed to be posted again ladies so here goes.

OC HANDBOOK OF ADVICE

1. Dna results must be established and your H should hire an atty immediately if he hasn't already done so. DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.

2. If you have children of your own with your h take steps to protect them and yourself by filing for a psuedo legal separation; because in the case of child support, he who files first gets the most (in most states). It doesn't matter one bit which child came first only who files for support first. So if she files first she gets an amount based on his entire income and if you then get separated/divorced your child support would be based on a percentage of his income less what he's already paying her. Makes sense to protect yourself by filing for a separation that way if you and your husband divorce you will benefit more and if you stay together it will keep more money in your household. Even if you're financially self-sufficient you should still consider setting up a child support order because in these uncertain times you never know what tomorrow will bring i.e. corporate downsizing, etc. It never hurts to have that order in place even if you don't need it now. Also consider having alimony set up in the separation papers as it can also reduce the ow's child support order.

3. Visitation with possible oc or sending money to the ow for the oc is a no-no until dna has been established and the courts are involved. Everything should be done legally as it's the only way to protect you and your family. Trust me on this one. There are couples out there who have been dealing with an oc for several years. Visitation, money, etc. only to discover that the child is NOT his. They are embroiled in a huge legal battle because the wayward husband "assumed" parental responsibilty of the child.

4. Depending on which state you live in your h could be responsible for back child support, internment (costs of labor and delivery), the costs of the dna test if it's positive, current medical coverage and also a portion of child care costs. Any money that passes hands before a court order is made or before an attorney draws up a legal document signed by both parties may be considered a gift and may not be deducted from the back support amount owed. Some states base child support payments on both the husband and the wives income (another good reason to file for a legal separation). In other words the 'household income' is what they use to determine those payments not just the husbands income.

5. Any decisions to have contact with the oc if it is indeed your H's should be made by both of you. He should not be imposing his wants upon you if you want no contact. ANY decisions made regarding the possible oc should be made jointly. Your H should not be having any contact with ow unless you are both completely involved. That means no phone calls, no text messages, no emails, no meetings, nothing and NO SECRETS! PERIOD! But if you're smart--DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.

6. Work on your marriage first and foremost before you even consider having contact. A weakened marriage will only be further weakened if you throw the tension of an oc into the mix. Get into marriage counseling and IC if possible. You can look around this board and see how difficult reconciliation is without an oc so take things slowly and think through them very carefully.

7. Contact with oc is a very personal choice. Many women are able to make the decision to go down that road while others are not. There is a lot of drama that goes along with contact, it's not an easy path to choose. Also consider that visitation can be started at any time down the road. If say in two years you are then open to the idea of contact the child won't have suffered if your husband wasn't involved for the first couple years. It won't even know the difference.

8. Remember that if the oc is indeed your husband's child the ow will no longer hold all the cards. If the two of you want contact she can't prevent it. She can't prevent you from being involved, etc. She can't call all the shots, only the courts can. Once she decides to attach paternity to your husband she is forfeiting a portion of her parental rights.

9. Make sure that you dot your i's and cross your t's in the form of legal documents. If you're adamant about no contact, have it in the papers. If you want to prevent her from making contact with your children or extended family put it in the paperwork. If your H is responsible for a portion of child care costs require ow to only use a licensed child care provider which will prevent her from having her momma watch and claim she's charging $250.00 a week when she's really charging nothing at all.

10. Protect your financial assets such as homes, etc. If you don't have a will get one now. If anything were to happen to your ws the ow would be able to fight you for a portion of everything if indeed the oc is his. Many people create a will that specifically excludes the oc or they leave the oc some small stipend such as a dollar so that the old "he forgot to include me" argument can't be used. If you intend to have a relationship with the oc should dna confirm that it's your H's then this is all a moot point.

11. If you and your spouse do decide to have contact document everything. Keep a notebook and list everything possible in it from the time the oc is picked up/ dropped off to whether or not they were dirty when you got them from the ow. This information has come in very handy for others in the same situation that ended up having to fight for custody, etc and it's one more way to protect yourself.