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skins21 posted 3/29/2018 15:07 PM

Newbies should be the ones to read this thread. I wish I had listened to my attorney the day I called him. He's handled thousands of cases but also doesn't harbor ill will to wayward spouses. His ex-wife actually works for him and he's remarried.

All of the sayings are true!

-The toast can't be unburnt.
-The toothpaste can't be put back in the tube.
-You can't unfuck the donkey.

Infidelity in most cases should be a deal breaker. It's sad that people choose to stay with a cheater because of kids, financial dependence, co-dependency or they are just too weak/scared to stand up for themselves.

All of the betrayed spouses need to be empowered to take their lives back again, find happiness again, gain independence and freedom.

I know I was stuck for awhile because I was trying to "win her back" and trying "reclaim" my wife. It's pointless and weak to do those things. Maybe it's some biological reaction but it's bullshit. I also realize now that anger and revenge are bullshit primitive emotions as well. Our reptile brains still control most of our biological responses. It's like when you're under attack your brain just goes into stupid mode and you can no longer think rationally or logically. Every action is based purely on emotion and it just leads to many poor decisions. The sooner you can stop the emotional responses the quicker you will heal.

This is why I'm advocating just getting away from your wayward spouse as quickly as you possible can. Until you remove the source of pain, the toxic relationship, the cancer in your life, you can't begin to start healing.

If I had a better support network I wouldn't have tried healing on my own or with the help of my WW.

If one recently betrayed spouse is helped by this advice and saves years of emotional trauma then it's well worth it. Maybe my opinions aren't popular but I don't understand the point of reconciling with a lying, cheating, manipulative, deceiving, sexual/emotional abusive, self-centered spouse. They aren't worth your time, energy, effort or money.


Then you can start living your life for yourself again.

Zugzwang posted 3/29/2018 15:45 PM

All of the betrayed spouses need to be empowered to take their lives back again, find happiness again, gain independence and freedom.
I believe my wife found power in staying too. But, hey- she would have found power in leaving too. It all depends upon the health and strength of character of BS. She stayed for the kids and she stayed because of who she is. I think we have a really good life now. I agree with her, I think it is better and healthier.
Until you remove the source of pain, the toxic relationship, the cancer in your life, you can't begin to start healing.
I think she healed. She stayed. I am not entitled to anything with her. She gave me a gift. I worked my ass off for it.

SisterMilkshake posted 3/29/2018 17:15 PM

Maybe my opinions aren't popular but I don't understand the point of reconciling with a lying, cheating, manipulative, deceiving, sexual/emotional abusive, self-centered spouse. They aren't worth your time, energy, effort or money.
Right, you don't understand. You don't want to understand. You are stuck in your stance and refuse to see, hear, read what others have tried to explain to you in 10 pages now. And what they have tried to explain is: Your WW is not every WS. Please stop painting people with such broad brush strokes. You do no one any favors.

smokenfire posted 3/29/2018 17:22 PM

After this I'm going to step away, sadly, but I will.

You are robbing yourself of so much, but this is your path. I hope that you find a better place soon, but it will be what it is. It seems and feels safer to paint them all with the same paint.

You can't protect yourself for the rest of your life from pain. It doesn't work. You can certainly try, but you will only push away people and be lonely.

We are not all the same at all, but I totally get why you want to stay in that cave. It's small, dark, no one can get in etc. You are welcome to believe in the power of redemption anytime you choose.

Hell, I'll even save you a seat.

sewardak posted 3/29/2018 17:33 PM

"All of the betrayed spouses need to be empowered to take their lives back again, find happiness again, gain independence and freedom."

I did this while still being married to my WS.
I don't need money, the kids are grown, and I'm ot codependent. Nor am I weak. maybe, just maybe, you can be happy working this out.
Something to consider. But please don't speak for all of us

pureheartkit posted 3/29/2018 19:32 PM

Skins, I'm glad you tried anyway even though you are hurting much worse now. And we can all see that you're hurting very badly and don't want anyone to suffer through anything like what is happening to you.

I don't fault anyone who decides to D right away as long as they aren't cruel or malicious about it. The attempt to R to me shows a willingness to take risk, to believe. That's human goodness. Maybe some say weakness. Trust and willingness to bond yourself to another is just human. If we were to do away with it, what sort of creatures would we be?

I wish I could restore some faith in humanity for some of you. Good people are out there trying. All I can say is don't shut yourself out of the possibility of finding someone like that. If you feel it's too painful to try then I understand. Wish I had met someone else who was better. Our lives are what they are. Take the time you need. I think you have much more to give if you can take another chance.

For some of you, the risk will be too great. I hope you find happiness though and love. Please don't turn away from the possibility without consideration because the numbers back it up.

I think the best way to prevent all this pain is to get out there and make it an issue in the world.

We know the damage infidelity causes.

No one should glamorize it in the media.
Help should be available to all.
People should not trivialize it when it comes up.
Places on the web that support it I wish could be closed but don't know if that's legal.
Kids should learn how to have proper boundaries in school by age 16.

Wish there was an anti cheating vaccine, but until then, we have to help our kids and push back against this in society. These numbers of unhappy marriages are too high in any study I read. Humans are better than this. Whatever we decide to do together usually gets done.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 7:38 PM, March 29th (Thursday)]

Followtheriver posted 3/29/2018 22:40 PM


I am truly sorry that you are in so much pain. As a FWW, I will apologize on behalf of your WW for the destruction she caused and not having any remorse or compassion to really want to do any work to repair the damage to you and your M. I have absolutely no words on why she took your gift of R and pissed all over it. I am being sincere in apologizing in the hope that it helps you in anyway.

While your rage and contempt towards all waywards is understandable, please feel free to direct it right at me, if again it would help you.

I am a strong girl and I can take it. Do you want to know why? I have fixed what was broken, healed what was damaged and changed what no longer worked. I have put everything I have and somethings I didn't into healing my BH, myself and my M. Even if my BH decides tomorrow that this is a deal breaker for him, at least it would end with my BH on a path of healing and me knowing for the first time in my life what it feels like to be a whole person.

I know from personal experience that the rage and pain you are unleashing here can and will eventually destroy your soul and everything you care about. It will consume you and it will break you. Will you please find some healthy way to work through it? Please.

TDVW posted 3/30/2018 03:11 AM

As a BS the life we once knew is no more. Infidelity breaches the vows we took. I understand your point of view Skins. For myself like you it didnít matter if he $anged her once or 50 times. It was over. Iím sure you may have heard the saying opinions are like $ssholes everyone has one. Peace.

Western posted 3/30/2018 06:40 AM


I just noticed this thread. Late to the show as I am not in 'General' much.

While I feel that SI has a pro-R slant regarding membership, I am largely in your corner as I feel D is normally the best course of action in dealing with infidelity.

Not always, not 100% but the vast majority of the time yes..

While I am not big on generalizations, I didn't take your post as one and in fact, everyone here generalizes from time to time whether they want to admit it or not.

I agree largely with what you say and keep fighting the good fight and get yourself away from your toxic WW.

You deserve so much better than what she gives you

skins21 posted 3/30/2018 09:34 AM


I stopped being angry the day I finally decided to stop R and start the D process. This was my issue, I could either seek revenge on OM, continue to wait for my WW to "change" and wallow in depression at how shitty my life is or just completely remove her out of my life. If I let go of her I also let go of the anger, resentment, bitterness and revenge thoughts against OM. I had to come to the realization that she just isn't worth going to jail over or sinking to her level. I had to choose me, which I haven't done in a very long time. I just couldn't compromise my morals and values and by staying with her that's exactly what I was doing.

I guess "my opinion" is that the only way to truly get out of the emotional/mental torture, the sleepless nights, the mind movies, the deep depression and anger is to just let her ( the WS) go. Break the emotional bond and start living life for me again. If this path is able to help anyone else then to me it's well worth the negative responses.

[This message edited by skins21 at 10:21 AM, March 30th (Friday)]

metoohurt posted 3/30/2018 09:53 AM

Good luck brother. Take a break if necessary.

sisoon posted 3/30/2018 12:34 PM

Skins, I'm really sorry that you're in so much pain. I wish you wouldn't spread it around so much, though.

I'm posting because I think you are giving newbies exactly the wrong message. Each BS needs to figure out what is best for him, and that is not necessarily D.

There is no one-size-fits-all for recovering from infidelity except: look inside, figure out what you want, figure out what's possible, get good help, take action.

You're advocating that everybody do something that you didn't do. You do not and can not know if the approach you advocate will work any better than the approach you took. I know the approach you advocate would have been wrong for me, and many other members have said and shown it would have been wrong for them. I ask you to accept that and adjust your posting accordingly.

I urge you to feel your pain and process it out of your body. That - not lashing out on a 'net forum - is the way to recover. My guess is that you need help you're not getting - I hope you get what you need.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:35 PM, March 30th (Friday)]

Marz posted 3/30/2018 12:46 PM


I think you've find that a decision is better than no decision.

skins21 posted 3/30/2018 12:48 PM

I really have to disagree. What I see advocated to most newbies is to "get out of infidelity" by using the 180 method. I'm advocating doing exactly that and to file for D.

I did not do the 180, I did the pick me dance by trying to be more "alpha" than the OM sexually and physically. I tried to reclaim my WW from him and prove to her that I was the better partner.

That whole thing didn't even matter. She was never planning on leaving me. She was just using him for the way he made her feel and sex. I was just her plan B or C.

I think doing the 180 and emotionally detaching and breaking the "love" bond is important. Once you're no longer emotionally invested you can start healing quicker and start thinking rationally/logically.

Filing for D is really the only thing that snaps a WS out of "limerance" or the fog if you will. Only when I threatened D or scheduled the appointment with the mediator did she realize gravity of the situation.

Yes, she might learn from this, change her character and be an amazing wife. She just won't be mine, she had her chance and fucked that up.

Maybe it's different if you've been married for 25 years or there was no sexual contact. I'm not saying there aren't cases that R is a good idea.

[This message edited by skins21 at 12:50 PM, March 30th (Friday)]

sisoon posted 3/30/2018 13:14 PM


Please reread your posts. Many of them in fact say that R is never a good idea.

josiep posted 3/30/2018 16:28 PM

skins came to this forum and poured his heart out.

Would a newly JFO member read his post and not realize it was his opinion and not be able to recognize that he was overgeneralizing from a place of pain and anger and hurt?

Does anyone honestly believe that a newly JFO reader would leave a remorseful WS based on reading skins post?

But most importantly, he poured out his pain and hurt and anger here; one would assume he did it for feedback and advice. Did he get advice on steps to take to help him heal? Or did he mostly get lectured for the way he overgeneralized about unremorseful WS's?

I have to wonder if a PM from one of the moderators asking him to rephrase some of his language would have accomplished the goal of eliminating the overgeneralization and allowed the conversation to move onto thoughts and ideas about healing.

sewardak posted 3/30/2018 16:35 PM

the beef we have is that he is saying this is the way everyone should do it.

TheGuy123 posted 3/30/2018 17:44 PM

When I was all most out of tooth paste and wanted to split what I had on my toothbrush and wanted to save the rest... I was able to suck up some past and spit it back in the container.
That way I had some left for bed time.

Now that I busted my old lady for phucking around.... she brushes my choppers and is responsible for making sure I have toothpaste....same goes for the toilet paper!

In all seriousness infidelity sucks big time and any way anyone can get out of it is the way to bad "SOME OF" the wayward's are to stupid to see it that way.

sassylee posted 3/30/2018 17:50 PM

Oh Guy123,

Your post makes me want to send you a case of toothpaste just so youíll never have to do that again!

TheGuy123 posted 3/30/2018 17:51 PM

I guess what I'm saying is...when we were kids and I was pushing her around and she was phucking around things were different.

These days she kneels only to me and I will never ever lay a hand on I don't spit back toothpaste into the tube so I have that going.

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