SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I hope everyone understands, I had to remove some details from this post to protect privacy, etc. I put way too much out there, and could have accomplished as much with less detail.

[This message edited by traildad at 12:12 PM, April 11th (Wednesday)]

Short version - I believe my wife is still having an EA with her cousin. I am at a loss as to what to do. Looking for help.

- Should I come right out and say NC? Or wait to see what the MC suggests this week? (he didn’t give advice other than to get her to MC)

- Should I call him and say NC?

- Should I tell family/friends to help snap her out of this?

- Am I right to call this an EA even if it is not sexual (I think)

[This message edited by traildad at 1:31 PM, April 11th (Wednesday)]

(((traildad)))... Boy, I can really feel your pain. She's with him in her heart. She has no room for you right now.... the 180 is definitely the right thing, you have to look after you and your kids right now. Is the OM married, it sounds like he's not, but if he is, tell his wife!!!!

Other than the 180, you need to see a lawyer just to see where you would stand if this leads to D. You have to protect yourself, all part of the 180. Don't cater to ANY of her needs, that gives her more power. Let the MC guide you (but you have to feel comfortable with them, they didn't all get A's in school) The first one I went to was a joke.

More will follow with better advice....and posting here can really help you- getting your pain out there to the the folks here for feedback and support can be a lifeline... ((((hugs))))

Thanks! He is single. The only person I could tell that would blow this whole thing up is my WW's mother, but I feel it could destroy their entire family.

It is so hard to do the 180 and not tell anyone about what is happening. I feel like as I go on living my own life and reconnecting with some friends, etc. that I am so alone because they have no idea of the pain right under the surface.

It would be their actions that cause the destruction, not yours by telling.

You are perfectly within your rights to demand nc and if she chooses to ignore that then expose their dirty little affair.

Affairs thrive in secrecy. The two of them are obviously choosing to ignore the repercussions of their particular relationship, they don't get to do that.

For the sake of you and your children you need to act. The longer this goes on the messier it will get.

I'm so sorry you find yourself here traildad but so glad you find SI.

tts

Thank you so much. This site is great.

Every time I push her on this at all she says "he's family, you can't ask me not to talk to him, and besides we aren't doing anything wrong anymore". I point out that she has other cousins that she never speaks to, so her argument is bust. But it never changes anything, she just tells me that I am treating her horribly by accusing her of things. She even told me yesterday that it is going to take a long time for her to trust ME again!!! for her to trust me??? are you kidding me??? Some of the stuff she says is so out of line it is almost laughable.

Welcome traildad - sorry you are here - but glad you found us! I'll get right to it:

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Should I come right out and say NC?

My opinion - Yes - if she wants an opportunity to save her M - that is what I would demand, but unless you are ready to back it up with actual consequences... it gets tricky and can backfire.

Or wait to see what the MC suggests this week? (he didn’t give advice other than to get her to MC)

If you have a good MC experience in Infidelity (and that is a big "If") he should be pressing your WW to go NC. But that is something WW needs to do. She needs to go NC (you should approve the letter she writes... more about this in the healing library - check it out)

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Should I call him and say NC?

And what - expect him to do the decent thing?... Your WW needs to draw that line.

Should I tell family/friends to help snap her out of this?

Also tricky - but promising to do so if she does not go immediately NC (and following through if she doesn't - is something I'd consider...

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Am I right to call this an EA even if it is no longer sexual (I think)

An EA is an emotional affair - no sexual contact is implied by the term... EA almost always become PA's if there is opportunity though, (as did your wife's...) So unless you believe in the presidential excuse and definition - your wife has had a PA and is continuing in an EA.

There are some sage and experienced betrayed men on this board - wait to hear from them! You will know them by their no-nonsense straight shooting

[This message edited by Take2 at 10:41 PM, April 6th (Friday)]

I am no expert...by far. BUT. I would tell her that I am disgusted beyond belief that she is having an AFFAIR with a relative. I would tell her that she has a lot of problems and that if she does not stop this crap NOW...I will be going public with all that I know. I would also tell her that I would be seeking a divorce as fast as possible and that I would be seeking full custody of the kids. She is not being a proper parent right now.

Go see as many attorneys in your areas (that are good) as you can.....then pick one. Once you see them, she cannot retain them. Play very fast, and very hard. Take no prisoners. Your wife needs to see reality.

Right now she is a fairy riding a unicorn. She needs a theoretical sucker punch to bring her back to reality.

If all the above doesn't help....file and go for broke...then rebuild your life without the super crazy.

The stuff she is saying is so very typical of a WS in an A. It's a cross between sickening and laughable.

Don't look for sense in the crap she speaks and the behaviour she exhibits, there is none.

Don't try to talk sense into her, it's impossible.

Don't appeal to her common sense, her love for her family or just for what's right or wrong.

She is deep in the fog and it's up to you to be strong. Demand that she go nc or threaten to expose. If she's really doing nothing wrong then she and her cousin can explain that to her Mum.

Keep going to counseling and 180 180 180. Get legal advice and get your ducks in a row to protect yourself and your kids if she self destructs.

I don't mean to sound harsh or cold but I've been here a long time and have seen the pain and confusion over and over again. Focus as best you can, read in the healing library here on SI and above all come here and ask for help whenever you feel your strength wavering.

Sending you hugs from across the miles, the rollercoaster is a bitch but survivable, we're all proof of that.

tts

[This message edited by trying to smile at 10:41 PM, April 6th (Friday)]

Thanks everyone, I expected to hear these things. I am just awakening from the shock of it all and coming to my senses and taking actions to protect me and the kids. Thanks again. I will be coming here often for your help and support, this ain't easy, but I am starting to see a path.

((traildad)) I'm sorry that this is happening to you. How long have you been married and how old are your littles? OK. Warm and fuzzy time is over.

Your situation is a problem and you know it. I think you need to INSIST that your W go NC with her cousin immediately or leave the house.

She says that she will stop when I start treating her better

Your W is reversing cause and effect, something that I am VERY familiar with. Do not get caught up in this circular argument because the stopping point is actually HER contact with OM. If not for the contact? You would not be angry. Seems pretty simple to me. But her? Not so much.

I am just afraid if I push her too hard on demands, etc. that she will just run out the door

You are looking at this wrong-headed, traildad. You have 'played' nice for 4 months now and your W still has her head stuck up her ass. It is time to play hardball.

You are dealing with an EA AND a PA. PA does not refer to only actual intercourse. PA = physical affair. They have touched. That is a PA.

I saw nothing in your post that indicates that your situation is not salvageable. No prior inappropriate behavior, etc... But at the moment, wow. Your W is completely immersed in her fantasyland and you are allowing her to continue to live in it.

I think you should make life hard for her. She ABSOLUTELY needs to go no contact if she wants to remain in your life.

I read a post a while back that I think applies to your situation. The poster said she gave her WH 15 minutes to decide....the marriage or the door?

Unfortunately I think that is where I think you are. Your W needs an ultimatum. Cousin or her H/kids. Choose. Now.

If she wavers? Open the f'n door, turn the fan on high and send her on her way.

I don't know about clueing in the rest of the family at this point. You are the best judge of that. Do you think there is someone that you could contact that could be helpful? If you were just going to spread the word throughout the family to 'out' her at this point, I'm not sure that is such a good idea.

And I also don't have a good feel for whether or not you should contact the cousin. Go with your gut on that one. But the f'n guy came to visit your family...WTF? The problem with contacting him is that you may give them more of a connection. Almost like an 'us' against 'him' thing. KWIM?

To sum up my completely incomprehensible post:

Demand NC.

Shit, I've got nothing else right now. I am sorry for your situation. It sucks.

There are some really good articles in the healing library (look in the yellow box at the top left of the screen) that you can read through.

Posting helps. The SI posters are experienced, wise and give really great advice. Good luck to you.

Oh and traildad - part of protecting yourself is - you get a copy of those texts, emails, phone records, whatever you can and secure them: forward them to your phone, put them on a flash drive, hide them, but you secure them. You don't have to do anything with them now, or ever - but secure them!

Agree with the others.

You don't need MC. MC is for remorseful WSs who want to R. You need to see a lawyer and do a hard 180.

Uhm... yeah, push for NC with the incestuous AP. If she can't or wont do that, then get all the evidence that you can and be prepared to file. Your marriage will not heal while this continues. Even in a no fault state, I am certain that an incestuous affair has got to have some kind of impact on the settlement. One would think at a minimum it would be factored into the custody decision.

You are right. You are in shock and that is pretty normal. Your wife could have written your post for you. She knows that you don't want to divorce because of your kids, out her to her mom, that you love her, etc. she knows all of this and is capitalizing on it. She is calling all of the shots and has lost respect for you.

You have to start driving this bus for your sake and your kids. She can't really run to him because she is already with him in her heart. Speak to a lawyer, do 180, consider outing her to family, get you some IC if you can.

You cannot nice her out of this. I tried, and every choice that I made to do the nice thing was wrong. Every

one. You have a great resource here, and many wise friends to hold you up during this. I am sorry, but this is gonna get harder before it gets easier.

traildad{{{{ bro hugs man. I feel your pain and I was were you are only worse 5 short months ago.

Sorry to say this man but please WAKE UP! You can't keep letting her have the upper hand if you want any chance to save things.

Should I come right out and say NC? Or wait to see what the MC suggests this week?

Neither!!! Please reread the 180 again especially this:

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

Harsh words but VERY true. Your WS is expecting you to act exactly like you are now, scared, frustrated, jealous and interested. DON"T DO IT!!! Doing this only gives her more power over you. Run the complete 180 and stick to it no matter how much it hurts.

(he didn’t give advice other than to get her to MC)

- Should I call him and say NC?

NO! MC will not work while she is still in the affair. Stop trying to get her into MC. Get yourself into IC and run the 180. That is your best chance right now to not only save yourself but maybe save your marriage. Please read number 1 of the 180 again: Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

- Should I tell family/friends to help snap her out of this?

Again NO! Not right now. Reread number 19 of the 180: All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! Telling family and friends at this point will only make you look weak to her. Wait and run the 180. You can always tell them down the road a little if need be.

Am I right to call this an EA even if it is no longer sexual (I think)

Sorry again, but please wake up! Keep thinking like this and you're lost. It doesn't matter whether it's an EA or a PA. That's only semantics at this point. Besides EA's can, and almost always are even more damaging than sex only PA's. What's more important at this point is to start detaching yourself from this toxic situation. Run the 180 and stick to it no matter how much you think it hurts. Pay special attention to yourself now. Breathe, try and eat, sleep, hydrate and most of all exercise as it will help with the first 4. Force yourself to go out and have a good time. Do things that you like to do and that make YOU feel good. Spend some money on yourself. I know you said money is tight right now but are you going to let her spend it and you don't get anything? Go to the movies, engage in a favorite hobby or pastime. Let her see that your enjoying life even when she thinks shes destroying it for you. Be strong, act strong but don't get mad or act mad. Let her see you smile, laugh, feeling good about yourself. Trust me, she'll get it.

You HAVE to reclaim the power in this situation and the ONLY way to do that right now is running the 180. Trust me it works I know, and if it doesn't, do you really want to stay and let her abuse you this way? You have to convince yourself that YOU are the one that will make the decision whether you want to save the marriage or let her go. Don't tell her that, just know it positively in your own mind. That is exactly what the 180 is about..."YOU"...and how you can survive no matter what she does. YOU CAN DO THIS! YOU CAN BE STRONG AND SURVIVE THIS! But you have to act NOW!

Good luck man, we'll be here when you need us.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 5:31 AM, April 7th (Saturday)]

Thanks guys, this is exactly what I needed. I certainly "woke up" finally this past weekend and started the 180 immediately. I realize now I was in shock and playing this all wrong. I was such a bumbling pushover, damn. I guess I was just in denial that all this was actually happening, I still can't believe that a year ago we were happy, etc. and now this.

Anyway, since starting the 180 her behavior has escalated significantly. Almost as though she is scared now. Scared that she knows there is no longer an easy road out of this. She is flat out mean to me any chance she gets. She appears desperate. But I am going to focus on this being about me, not her.

A couple questions about the 180, etc.

-How do you do the 180 without being "cold" as it says? Do I still talk friendly with her about the kids, if she asks about work, etc.?

-I understand I need to demand NC. Should I wait until after I have seen a lawyer? My fear is that if I demand NC or leave (as some have suggested here), and she leaves, I won't be able to gather any evidence, etc. to help my case.

-If I am to wait to "demand NC or leave" how do I handle her talking to him, right out in the open, while laying next to me in bed. Just act like it doesn't bother me? I don't see how I can continue that for very long.

She appears to be in a situation with two possible outcomes and she knows it, neither will be easy or fun:

1) go NC and break off her "fantasy", spend next couple of years trying R with me, back to real world, etc.

2) leave, face all of these truths in court, etc. likely deal with her shame as her family friends will eventually find out, but she will be free (at least for a while) to contact him.

Thanks again guys, I'm gonna have a lot of questions.

Hey guys - Can you help me clear something up? It seems as though almost everyone is saying demand NC, but as PanicAttack points out this really would not be following the 180. Any suggestions?

Anyway, since starting the 180 her behavior has escalated significantly. Almost as though she is scared now. Scared that she knows there is no longer an easy road out of this. She is flat out mean to me any chance she gets. She appears desperate. But I am going to focus on this being about me, not her.

Good for you man! Yeah shes scared because you're showing her that you're detaching. Shes going to give you all kinds of grief and be confused because this is the NEW you and she isn't getting her way abusing you. Hang in there, DON'T give up! You're doing the right thing. It's not going to be easy but it will be worth it. Especially when you see the power shifting back to you.

A couple questions about the 180, etc.

-How do you do the 180 without being "cold" as it says? Do I still talk friendly with her about the kids, if she asks about work, etc.?

YES!!! Always friendly, calm, collected and that's exactly what you want to talk about. Avoid any conversation about the marriage at this point. Try and make your sentences short and too the point. Don't initiate conversations, let her talk then listen. When you calmly get your point across, leave the room. If she brings up the marriage or the A, act uninterested.

-I understand I need to demand NC. Should I wait until after I have seen a lawyer? My fear is that if I demand NC or leave (as some have suggested here), and she leaves, I won't be able to gather any evidence, etc. to help my case.

Do not demand NC right now. Do not demand ANYTHING. It won't work anyway and it will only make you look weak and give the power back to her. Act like you don't care if she talks to OM. I know that's hard, but you have to do it. Remember, your goal here is to detach and make her believe you'll be fine with or without her.

-If I am to wait to "demand NC or leave" how do I handle her talking to him, right out in the open, while laying next to me in bed. Just act like it doesn't bother me? I don't see how I can continue that for very long.

DO NOT LEAVE!! NEVER leave. If anyone leaves it's her! You did NOTHING wrong here. She's having the A not you. I know it's hard to listen to those convos. If it gets too tough, tell her your going out for some relaxation. Get away for awhile so you don't have to listen BUT DON"T EVER act like it's bothering you. Detach, detach, detach. She'll begin to get it if she wants you and the M. If not, do you really want to stay with a toxic woman that is purposely trying to hurt you at every turn? It's hard but YOU CAN DO IT!

She appears to be in a situation with two possible outcomes and she knows it, neither will be easy or fun:

1) go NC and break off her "fantasy", spend next couple of years trying R with me, back to real world, etc.

2) leave, face all of these truths in court, etc. likely deal with her shame as her family friends will eventually find out, but she will be free (at least for a while) to contact him.

Only if you stay strong here. If not you're looking at option #3 and believe me it's not pretty. She continues to abuse you and gets you to react to her bullshit. DON'T let that happen. Stay strong. Keep on course and don't give the power back to her. You're in control now whether she realizes it yet or not. Hang in there bro.