SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ugh, I’m sorry for posting here again, I’m sure some of you probably want to smack me with a 2X4 to see if that’ll get the message through my head. For those of you that haven’t seen my posts, my WH moved out at the end of October. He has since been doing what I call “dangling the carrot”. If I get upset, he says he has been thinking of us. When I soften up, he basically tells me this can’t be fixed (he had a 2.5 yr affair which I know was E and P—not just the sex).

The latest “dangling” happened this weekend. After “coming clean” about details Saturday, he basically told me Sunday he couldn’t be guilted into R. I told him I couldn’t be his friend in that case. It’s either black or white for me, no in between. Later on, I take the kids to see him, he knocks on my window and asks if I want to go in. Of course, I said no even though I was taken aback considering we had just argued earlier (I almost feel like he did it just so our kids can see him trying to get along with me).

Monday he sends me a message when he’s picking up the kids asking if we could talk. I ignore it. He calls and asks the same. I told him I wasn’t playing that game with him anymore, that I didn’t want to talk. Anyway, I was intrigued and told him to tell me what he wanted to talk about. My son went to open the door and he hung up, but texted me “about how we could start giving it a try” 🙄 I ignored him again.

The next day when I went to pick up the kids, I was trying to ignore him (avoiding eye contact, not talking) and he knocks on my window again “move the seat up so dd can sit comfortably”. I roll it up and do it. Knocks again. “I’ll pick up the kids Thursday and take them back Friday”...ok.

By the way, I have been dressing up more, doing my makeup, doing my hair, posting on social media (but I deleted him Monday) since dday1. He has asked several times why I didn’t do it before...not sure if he’s kicking himself in the ass a little or not. By the way, he definitely affaired down. His AP is younger than me and easily looks 5 years older and she was also married and a mother of two 🙄

Have WS here been absolutely sure they wanted to D their BS and then regret it shortly thereafter? I don’t understand his behavior, so I’m probably just kidding myself, but I want to think that a part of him truly is conflicted. By the way, I can’t be sure, but I don’t think he is still in touch with MOW. Any insight?

Just mho, but he sounds like a manipulative cake-eating arsehole to me. Still in touch with AP = still cheating. He wants his wild romance with schmoopsie and wants to keep his wife on the back burner for plan b.

You sound like you're starting to focus on you and that's what you should be doing right now. If he wants cake, tell him to go find another bakery.

Please don't worry about apologizing for posting...if it makes it easier for you to write things out on here...then do it .

What you are describing sounds a lot like how my 1st H was when we separated after I caught him for the 2nd time with another woman. He didn't want me...but didn't want anyone else to have me either . I didn't understand the mixed signals at all. Sometimes I thought he was ready to become a family again...and then he would find a new "shiny"...and I was discarded.

It wasn't until I seriously started dating the man who became my 2nd H that my 1st H decided I was THE ONE . By then it was too little too late.

I have seen several posts on here where the couple has separated...then go for R several months later. So I assume that this DOES happen. Is this what you want?

about how we could start giving it a try

Give what a try, NOT cheating in a marriage? What exactly is this trying he speaks of? F@ck him! He should be on his knees begging, and anything other than that will NOT work. R is very hard work. He needs a hell of a lot more commitment to you than that. Bullsh@t.

He has asked several times why I didn’t do it before

Because if you had dressed up more, THEN he wouldn't have cheated and ruined your life as punishment? Asshole. Your clothing does not justify his cruel, immoral behavior. And besides, I don't see what you are trying to win back here--an unremorseful, cruel husband who blames you for his A because you weren't hot enough? That is like the worst husband ever! Stop trying to win this idiot back! Yuck.

You do not have anything to work with here. He is not good R material. He's not even good person material! Work on you. Work on your self-esteem and seeing yourself as the amazing person you are. That effort will guarantee you happiness, because making an effort with this dipshit is going to be like chasing your tail--never enough, always out of reach, never quite working. Make yourself happy. I used to hate when my IC said that stuff, but damn it, she was 100% right.

Still in touch with AP = still cheating. He wants his wild romance with schmoopsie and wants to keep his wife on the back burner for plan b.

I can’t be sure, but I don’t think he is with AP anymore. Supposedly he ended things and that’s why she told me the truth. Of course, he could be lying, but he knows the kids would resent him even more if they found out he was still in touch with her.

I have seen several posts on here where the couple has separated...then go for R several months later. So I assume that this DOES happen. Is this what you want?

That’s a tricky question. At this point, I don’t even know what I want. I think because part of me hangs on to the anger in an effort to make this hurt less. I wish he had thought more about the kids and I. I wish he would show true remorse for doing what he did and then leaving the house “because I asked him to”. I wish it had never happened.

I’m not sure if he showed remorse how forgiving I’d actually be, though, so maybe he’s right in saying that this could never be fixed. I don’t know. It’s a rollercoaster. I love the person I THOUGHT I had by my side, not the one I realize has been with me at least 3 years (only God knows if this is the first time he steps out of our marriage). I’m just having a hard time wrapping my brain around all of it and holding on to those loving feelings that he obviously hasn’t feel for at least 3 years, although he was damn good at pretending he did.

Give what a try, NOT cheating in a marriage? What exactly is this trying he speaks of? F@ck him! He should be on his knees begging, and anything other than that will NOT work. R is very hard work. He needs a hell of a lot more commitment to you than that. Bullsh@t.

You are right, I am not seeing enough effort on his part. That’s exactly what I was telling my brother yesterday—at this point it isn’t about US trying, it’s about him showing me HE wants another chance...but he isn’t doing that 🤷🏽‍♀️

Honestly, he always made me feel attractive/wanted, I just didn’t believe I looked good (flabby belly/stretch marks after kids made me insecure, plus I started gaining weight). He does claim turning down his advances made him feel unwanted, though 🙄

That effort will guarantee you happiness, because making an effort with this dipshit is going to be like chasing your tail--never enough, always out of reach, never quite working.

You’re right. He is not R material and it’s looking like he might not ever be. It just takes the heart a long time to catch up with the brain. I (and just about everyone around me) thought I had a unicorn husband...turns out he was just an ass with a party hat.

Just typical cake eating bullshit. Don’t do that pick me ballroom dance. Stay frosty and stay on course. you’re doing fine.

Do not engage. I repeat. Do not engage.

Honestly, he always made me feel attractive/wanted, I just didn’t believe I looked good (flabby belly/stretch marks after kids made me insecure, plus I started gaining weight). He does claim turning down his advances made him feel unwanted, though 🙄

As a man I can say that most men I know including myself are not expecting real women to look like fake Instagram models who have been photoshopped.

If he felt rejected by you, he certainly could have talked to you about it instead of cheating. At one point in my marriage back in our 30s, my WW had fallen into a pattern of “not tonight honey” — I was kind but sat her down and told her this wasn’t going to work for me. I was blunt but not harsh about it. Our sex life recommenced.

I too felt rejected, but I didn’t solve that dilemma by seeking out another woman. And my communicating solved the problem quickly.

Of course my WW decided to implode our marriage later in our 40s but that’s a whole different story.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:03 AM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

At this point, I don’t even know what I want. I think because part of me hangs on to the anger in an effort to make this hurt less.

Gently, it hurts as much as it hurts. You hurt as much as you hurt.

The quickest way through the grief, anger, fear, and shame is to feel it and let it go. I'm not saying it's an easy way; I'm saying it's the easiest way. A good IC can help.

I urge you to start focusing on what you want, how you want your recovery to go. Know what you want even if you can't get it. Don't sell yourself out by ignoring what you want.

Stop focusing on your H. If you really want D, all he is is a source of funds and parenting for your kids. If it turns out you want R, he becomes a lot more relevant, but right now, I think your priorities are: 1) self-care; 2) child care; 3) focusing on what you want.

I too felt rejected, but I didn’t solve that dilemma by seeking out another woman. And my communicating solved the problem quickly.

You’re right. His communication is terrible. He was always conflict-avoidant which is kind of ironic considering the bullshit he put us all through. I have told him numerous times, had I known that all these things “made him unhappy”, I would’ve changed in a heartbeat. I thought he was completely fine with the way our relationship was going; I thought we had unspoken agreements, if you will.

If you really want D, all he is is a source of funds and parenting for your kids. If it turns out you want R, he becomes a lot more relevant, but right now, I think your priorities are: 1) self-care; 2) child care; 3) focusing on what you want.

I am definitely trying to focus on myself and the kids, but it is so hard to not think about him and wonder what the hell is really wrong with him. As Thumos said, I think communicating would’ve made a huge difference in our marriage. I just wonder why he couldn’t come out and tell me DIRECTLY what he was feeling (he claims asking if I am attracted to him, asking me if I felt like his roommate, etc. was direct enough...I should’ve read between the lines and known our marriage was in trouble 🙄

Of course, he could be lying, but he knows the kids would resent him even more if they found out he was still in touch with her.

I just wanted to say to this that if he cared about how the kids felt he wouldn’t have cheated in the first place. He’s already hurt the kids. Someone functioning from this selfish of a mentality won’t stop lying or being selfish “for the sake of the kids”, or anyone else for that matter. Trust me when I say, he does not think or process or feel the same ways you do. He’s functioning from a whole other place.

OP, you need to take control and file for divorce. This will

stop him playing games on you.

Tell your WH that he is free to go but you will not share your

husband with another woman. At this point you want NC with

your WH. Kids will be dropped off at your parents house for

WH to pick them up and drop them back off. No more face

to face contact or phone calls.

An contact about the kids will be handled only through email.

You will not consider recovery unless WH establishes NC

with the OW, writes a full time line, willingly and honestly

answers all your questions about the PA, gets STD tests done,

provides ability to verify NC, access to phone and social

media, and he has to start IC, as the starting point for you

to consider recovery.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 5:49 PM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

Trust me when I say, he does not think or process or feel the same ways you do. He’s functioning from a whole other place.

You’re right. I notice it even with the communication he has with the kids. It’s like he’s ok with texting them once or twice a day (when they get that much). When they’re with him, I text them, I talk to them/FaceTime them and even want to listen to them play their video games. I signed up for a Roblox account so we can play when they’re gone😂

You will not consider recovery unless WH establishes NC

with the OW, writes a full time line, willingly and honestly

answers all your questions about the PA, gets STD tests done,

provides ability to verify NC, access to phone and social

media, and he has to start IC, as the starting point for you

to consider recovery.

The thing is that he could care less about recovery. I’m not sure if he’ll ever get there (I almost feel like he has to reach rock bottom—which probably hasn’t come for him yet), but I’m not holding my breath anymore. We are communicating mainly through the parents talking app and he doesn’t seem to care so 🤷🏽‍♀️

If he does come back, have him sign a post-nup favorable to you. It's almost certain he will cheat again, and that way the separation will be easier for you because you won't have to hammer out details. It's also a way to tell if they are even going to try to be faithful. (I know several people who made out quite well after using this tactic when their cheater cheated again.) In my case, my WXH was begging me back, but declined to sign a pre-nup because I should just trust him, so I made the best -- and hardest -- decision of my life to divorce.

If he does come back, have him sign a post-nup favorable to you.

As the days go by, I am more and more convinced he won’t be back. He is comfortable having our kids two nights a week (although it’s about 3 or 3 1/2 days once we add up the hours) and not hearing me “nag/talk” about the affair until the wee hours of the morning. His loss. I know I am an intelligent, educated, beautiful woman...it’s just starting over that scares me, especially since he was only my second serious relationship and that started at 18.

His looks will fade just as everything else he had going for him (trustworthiness, love/empathy for others, likeability, dependability, etc.) has started to fade—then he will realize he is just the shell of what he once was. 🤷🏽‍♀️

As the days go by, I am more and more convinced he won’t be back.

You seem so focused on wanting him back that you can't see he is not worth having. My fear is that the minute you do move on will be the time he tries to come back and you'll stay stuck. Flip the script. Reject the rejector. You don't know it, but you don't want him.

Try to confront yourself: why am I sad about his abuse rather than repulsed by his abuse? That is the work you need to do. Find your self-preservation instinct. Longing for our abuser to return requires work on ourselves.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:13 AM, December 4th (Friday)]

He’s very happy to keep you in limbo (which to me is like living in hell). You are NOT a yo-yo but that is how he treats you. One minute it’s “do you want to come in” and the next minute “he cannot be guilted into reconciliation “.

My H dud the same thing to me for months. I would hear “I want a Divorce” but then he would change his mind days later and swear up and down he didn’t want to divorce.

I finally put an end to this when I snapped one night and finally had enough, finally stood up to him and finally stopped playing his game. I told him “I’m divorcing you b/c I have no other choice. I have nothing left to give to this marriage. You are free to be with the OW or anyone else you choose,”.

Game changer.

I restored my power and self esteem in one move. There was no more discussions. It was the hard 180 and I mean hard b/c we were still living together.

In my opinion your cheating H (whether he and the OW are together or not) has proven your family, your marriage AND you are not his first priority. You need to stop waiting around for him “to decide” what he wants. It’s time for you to decide how you are going to manage yourself and your kids to move on and start extricating yourself from him.

You are doing a great job by not answering him or doing anything more than dropping off your children. No chit chat. No “let’s be friends and hang out together” crap. That is done by the cheater to assuage their guilt. To allow the cheater to think “it’s not so bad b/c we are friends”.

Sorry friends don’t lie and cheat and break vows and promises. You can eventually re-establish a friendship for the sake of family harmony. But don’t continue to allow him to string you along.

As you said he’s either in or out. And if he’s out (which his actions show) then he needs to stop trying to lead you in into believing you have a chance of reconciliation.

Keepingit2gether, I'm not a WS but I have to ask

Have WS here been absolutely sure they wanted to D their BS and then regret it shortly thereafter?

Is this what you want to happen or hoping happens?

I don’t understand his behavior

It is possible that the consequences of his actions are starting to cause him discomfort and he is not liking the feeling.

so I’m probably just kidding myself, but I want to think that a part of him truly is conflicted

IMHO I think this is normal for many BS. We hope that the WS comes to realize they lost a very wonderful and special person. But guess what? You don't need any validation from him!

By the way, I can’t be sure, but I don’t think he is still in touch with MOW

Would this really matter at this point? If he isn't are you considering R if he changes enough?

Any insight?

Yes. Live for you and the kids. Enjoy the Holidays and have a great New Year.

Try to confront yourself: why am I sad about his abuse rather than repulsed by his abuse?

Honestly, I was truly blindsided, that’s why I am sad about it. He always talked about how I was the love of his life and I thought he did everything he could to show it. I never ONCE felt that he was cheating, acting distant, etc. His behavior changed once dday1 (thought it was an EA) came 4.5 months ago.

No “let’s be friends and hang out together” crap. That is done by the cheater to assuage their guilt. To allow the cheater to think “it’s not so bad b/c we are friends”.

I agree. I think it helps him feel less guilty and he thinks our children will resent him less if I’m happy being his friend 🙄 He knows tension between us is obvious and the kids don’t like us not being able to get along, but that’s what he wanted and I can’t do anymore groveling to fix our relationship.

Live for you and the kids. Enjoy the Holidays and have a great New Year.

I am not going to lie, if he showed me he could be a safe partner, yes, I would like to reconcile. However, as I mentioned before, I know he’s not thinking like I am. He is still blaming me for what he did (lack of affection, supposedly not supporting him enough, not watching TV with him...whatever lame excuse you can think of, I probably got it), so he is definitely not remorseful. This is a side of him I never knew existed and now I often think I was in love with a lie.

You are right, though. Regardless of what he does or doesn’t do, I have to show my kids that they are always going to be my priority. It’s hard to mask the pain, but I try really hard to pretend things are getting better (hell, I even defend stupid WH when they talk about him and I would love to laugh and say that’s what he deserves). At the end of the day, my kids already know they have one shitty parent. I don’t want them to grow up thinking about how this made me just as shitty, so I make sure I let them know I love them while they’re here, I miss them when they’re gone, and that most importantly, no one could ever come between us.

You are asking the wrong question. This is why you are in the predicament you are in. I know because I have 25 years of experience. My back and forth with my WS in the early years played out with this cat and mouse game. So if you don't want to go down the long road of serial cheating then let me spell it out for you.

STOP TALKING TO HIM. Just stop. You know he's dangling a carrot and you take it. Why? Because you're afraid if you don't then he'll stop dangling the carrot. Why do you want a carrot anyways? I want the full meal. I ain't on no diet that I need a carrot. F the carrot. NO thank you to the carrot.

"Carrot's" suck. and only mess with your emotions and are his way of exercising his control over you.

Literally picture someone dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit and making the rabbit chase it. Who is in control? The rabbit or the dangler?

Please take back your control. Prove to yourself how pathetic your WS actually is. I will give you a test. I hope you follow through with it. DO NOT Respond to any danglers.

Examples of good communication:

WS: "I will pick up the kids at 4 tomorrow"

YOU: "unfortunately 4 doesn't work, you can pick them up at 5"

Example of Carrot Dangling:

WS: "ok, 5 is fine...(long pause), so why 5? do you have plans or something?"

You think to yourself Oh my gosh he sounds jealous! this is awesome! NO IT's NOT awesome. Do you want a marriage or a jealous cheater who wants his cake and be able to eat it too? What do you want?

if you respect yourself your answer to his dangling question:

"5 works, I will have the kids ready" and you drive off.

Now guess what? he will text you,

"So you didn't say what you're doing at 5? Have a hot date or something? Why is it a big secret! They are my kids too, I have a right to know!"

YOU: CRICKETS!

Him: (Hours later) HELLO????? Why aren't you answering me???

YOU: CRICKETS

Him: "You know what? Screw you this is exactly why I left you!"

You: (having a bubble bath) CRICKETS

Him tomorrow at 5: completely ignores you

YOU: tomorrow at 5: LOVE YOU KIDS!

If anyone here knows this game? Please confirm. I call this game CRICKETS. Your silence as much as you don't believe it, will go along way in teaching your WS how to treat you and that you cannot be played. You will also teach your children the meaning of self respect.

Let me know how the game works for you. When you forget the game remember it's called CRICKETS>

Truth be told crickets isn't a game. It's a way of life. It allows you the ability to respect yourself and set an example for your kids that their parents aren't two idiots toying with their lives and emotions. Be the example. IF your WS ever wants to get off of his high horse and have a real marriage he will let you know in no uncertain terms. He will be a man and fight for you. He will not carrot dangle and lead you on. YOU are the mother of his children. Respect that more then his sad attempts at keeping you on a leash.

[This message edited by Broken1Again at 11:01 AM, December 4th (Friday)]

Have WS here been absolutely sure they wanted to D their BS and then regret it shortly thereafter? I don’t understand his behavior, so I’m probably just kidding myself, but I want to think that a part of him truly is conflicted. By the way, I can’t be sure, but I don’t think he is still in touch with MOW. Any insight?

I expect that cheating isn't as fun when there's no one to cheat on anymore. This man does not love you.

I am definitely trying to focus on myself and the kids, but it is so hard to not think about him and wonder what the hell is really wrong with him. As Thumos said, I think communicating would’ve made a huge difference in our marriage. I just wonder why he couldn’t come out and tell me DIRECTLY what he was feeling (he claims asking if I am attracted to him, asking me if I felt like his roommate, etc. was direct enough...I should’ve read between the lines and known our marriage was in trouble

You're making a huge assumption here. There wasn't something wrong with the marriage or communication that caused him to cheat. He was just fine with being married and cheating. Communicating would have meant working on the marriage and that was not his goal. His goal was cheating. His big marital problem is that you found out about the cheating. The list of excuses that gets trotted out after cheating is just jusitifcation and trying to put the blame on you and/or the marriage.

You'll see him with more clarity as time goes on if you limit your contact to only practical matters. Meanwhile, you'll be living your own life and separating emotionally from him. Stay strong and there will come a day when you can't imagine why you'd entertain being with him. Thankfully, love fades and drifts away. If a new man came to you with his relationship resume, you'd never give him a chance. New guy's resume says "I am capable of pretending to love you and treat you well while cheating on you for years". You'd be horrified. The only difference between this cheating man you're divorcing and the theoretical new cheating man is that you fell in love with this one before knowing what he was about. You developed an attachment to a very talented liar. Been there, totally get that. This is not a kind of person who's a great bet for a healthy relationship.