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Is it fair to say that most people see an exit affair as a intentionally cruel and very deliberate means for the WS to show the BS, in absolute terms, that the WS wants to get away from a person they don't like? Bad enough so as to knowingly cause a lifelong injury to the BS? Isn't it an "I've got to get away from you at any cost (to you)" kind of thing?

Is it also fair to say the only way R occurs if it's genuinely wanted by the WS and BS? That there's a special kind of effort required by the WS to express in word and deed, over a lifetime, that the BS is worth said effort? And that the WS greatly values the BS?

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around how a WS that is so decidedly vile to a BS can turn around, for reasons that aren't selfish, seek genuine R and value the BS that they saw as so very worthless.

Afterall, we aren't talking about semi-familiar acquaintances who were forced into each other's company and recently saw they were people that didn't like each other for one reason or another. We aren't talking about a new-hire that is introduced to existing staff and there are disagreements resulting in bruised egos/chafing where they then begin avoiding each other. We are talking about two people who knew each other intimately (the good, bad and the ugly) and one of them hated the other person...their whole being, enough to attempt to murder them emotionally and psychologically as effort to get away from them. It's not a situation where there's uncertainty about who the BS was when the WS decided to use the nuclear option(A) to end the M. It's not as though only after an A the WS has a light go off making the WS likable.

It's kind of a "coyote ugly" thing. Except, instead of the coyote biting off their own arm to get away, the coyote bites off the innocent party's arm to get away. Given the history, how would the innocent party ever believe the coyote really values them enough to R after experiencing the length it'd go to get away from them?

How is a BS to ever feel that, to their WS, they're anything more than a weight chained to the WS's neck? Some people use the really generous term of "plan B". To me it feels more like "plan-I guess I have no other choice".

I don't doubt that a WS who utilized an exit affair can't experience regret, remorse, sorrow, guilt or be contrite about what they've done. But I do feel it's almost impossible that the same WS could ever have the genuine love for that BS that's necessary for a real R to happen. The idea of the exit affair and an R seems like a paradox to me given the implications of an exit affair.

I think all affairs are cruel, and while a cheater might claim they weren't being intentional or deliberate, failing to anticipate the very obvious and natural consequences of your choices is no excuse.

But to my mind, an exit affair simply means someone looking, possibly only subconsciously, for a way out of their marriage. It means the cheater wants to end the marriage and leave to be with the AP. They probably wanted to leave the marriage for some time before this, but stayed because of inertia or fear or whatnot.

That said, I do think a couple can come back from an exit affair. I mean, in some sense, the BS whose WS was trying to make it work with the AP and not afraid to leave and be exposed, but who then came back and chose the BS anyway . . . in some ways that's, not better, but it's something. Because the WS already experienced all the things that so many are afraid of . . . public judgment, the logistics of leaving, etc.

Really, there's no way to "win" in the aftermath of an affair. All you can do is make your healthiest choices in less than ideal circumstances. But do I think a WS could realize, oops, the fantasy of the AP was way better than the reality? Hell yes.

My WGF told me on dday that hers was an exit affair. She only attempted R because I promised to be different (what we also call the pick me dance)

What I came to realise over time is that she didn’t want to exit our relationship. I had in fact done nothing wrong other than be a reliable stable loving and caring partner. What she wanted to exit was middle age…..

My WW became very dissatisfied with everything in her life. We needed a new house, a new car, new furniture. When those things didn’t help she looked at me as the problem. She tried so hard to monkey branch out of here but never found Mr Right. She had about 12 A’s in 14 months 2 physical the rest were online EA.

The thing is I’ve been a solid faithful H and father for 30 years. She will never be satisfied no matter where she branched off to. You could have created the perfect man, house, car, furniture and life and she would’ve been miserable anyway.

Through IC she has become more content but she knows the minute she becomes dissatisfied, she is free to leave.

I think a genuine exit A is incompatible with R. Upon discovery the WS yearns for the BS to initiate D because they are too cowardly to do it.

I think that many As are rationalized as exit As. "I was separated from you already in my mind", "I already divorced you spiritually", etc. etc. There are hundreds of versions of this line. It's usually some combination of relationship history rewriting and coping because the cheater doesn't want to feel like a bad guy. Upon discovery, this lie unravels like so many others, because they don't actually want to D. They just needed an excuse to cake eat without feeling like a complete piece of shit for doing this.

This lie is also usually told to the AP in some form or fashion. "I promise I'll leave my spouse for you." But they never do. Not when it isn't genuine. They are also trying to keep AP on the line. Cheaters don't value AP over the BS. Cheaters want both. What bullshit they spin to keep both rarely has any basis in reality.

I suppose my story is comes close to an exit affair betrayal. I kicked out my fWH on D-day and he beelined straight to his fAP's home. In a way it was an exit affair. He seemed relieved to leave. This happened three years ago.

My husband today explained to me that his exit stemmed from the fact that he left an environment where he was under a super, self-inflicted stress because of the constant lies, juggling schedules, more lies to cover up more lies etc. etc. And of course at that point in time, he did not care for me much.

Forward three years to now. People constantly can change their minds, attitudes, behaviours. NOTHING is permanent. A separation need not be permanent, a divorce need not be permanent, hate need not be permanent, etc. etc. We both changed the way we see one another. It took all this time to see one another and I mean really see one another as we are. Not as I want him to be or he wants me to be.

Actually, there can't be a paradox, but a lie. If the A is a true exit A, the intention to R is a lie. If the intention to R is sincere, then it is a lie that the A is an exit A.

In an exit As, WS is in a state of real indifference. They don't care what BS feels or thinks, BS is no different from any ordinary person for WS anymore.

I don't think their cheating is done deliberately to hurt BS. But that's what makes it so cruel and painful. They simply didn't care. They don't even realize how much pain they give their BS, unless they see it. And some of them can't understand even if they see it.

Even if there are fights and ridiculous excuses, there is at least a reaction, and it relieves the BS a little. But that indifference, unresponsiveness doubles the pain of BS. The stories of sleeplessinSTL and CheesecakeBaker come to my mind first, as an example.

Edit: I should add that what I said is valid for the time BS and WS are together. Since the absence of BS after the separation creates a new situation for WS, WS may consider BS's place in his/her life more healthy and perhaps begin to seek his/her existence.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 11:17 PM, Wednesday, November 17th]

I think part of the explanation, at least for some people, is that WSes are searching for something, but they don't know what. They decide a new relationship is the answer, so they embark on what they think is an exit A. But when it comes time to exit, they realize that's not what they were looking for. IOW, they only thought they were in an exit A.

You raise an important issue, though: How can a BS distinguish between a WS's true desire to R and a desire simply to stay in a comfortable state?

All I can say is: consistent actions over time will tell. The BS needs to observe their WS and respond accordingly.

My STBXWW had 2 affairs which I recently found out were exit affairs (she denied this for over a decade until a poly).

In her case, there was nothing in particular in the marriage that she wanted to escape - she just "fell in love" with one guy, and after that ended "fell in love" with another (wanted to run away with each).

When those ended (first dumped her second "cheated" on her) she says she realized I was a better man than either and that she regretted ever feeling like she wanted to leave.

I tried reconciling with her for 13 years BEFORE I knew they were exit affairs (I originally thought they were just cake eating opportunities for her). Once I found out she tried to exit, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am in process of filing for D.

What little trust was rebuilt went out the window with that revelation. She was still lying and to me that meant she could discard me again when the mood hit her.

Not a game I want to play anymore.

I think it comes to personal choice.

My point of view: I remove the Infidelity part. If a GF dumps me for someone else, then later come back to say sorry, I changed my mind, my response is thanks but no thanks.

I personally think all affairs are potentially exit affairs as the cheater has NO IDEA if their BS will choose to give them the gift of R. In my mind, cheating in itself is exiting the marriage/relationship because so much time and effort is being focused on the affair and the AP. Even if the affair ends and the WW stays with the BS.
In my case, my H was such a shitty communicator and had frustrated with our marriage. The AP presented herself and an opportunity was born. Instead of coming to me, he chose to start a relationship with his AP, and in his mind at the time, our marriage was over and it was only a matter of time until he left.
BUT, and as in MANY affairs, this line of thinking isn't reality, it's simply justification of a shitty choice. My H said many times after the affair ended that his brain wasn't working and his head was so far up his ass he was having trouble breathing.
Not an excuse, just reflection after he was able to get his head straight again.
All affairs are deliberate, intentional, cruel and the pain they cause is debilitating to the BS.
You have remember that it's not the BS that's so awful, worthless, and disgusting, it's the WW's inability to deal with their own issues.

I personally think all affairs are potentially exit affairs as the cheater has NO IDEA if their BS will choose to give them the gift

of R.

I think the potentially is the operative word here. My EX’s affair for her turned out to be an exit affair, but at my choosing. I think in many affairs the WS thinks they won’t get caught, and if they do, the possibility of divorce is small. I know my EX thought she wouldn’t get caught, especially as she was so close to what she deemed would be a hard exit. If I hadn’t been tipped off, she could have taken it to her grave.

Once caught, she was convinced because "she was never going to leave me", and I believe that, it should mean less to me and the 25+ years of marriage and dating, raising a family, and being on the finish line of raising kids and my retirement, I would come to the conclusion that she deserved another chance. It just didn’t work that way for me.

My guess is it’s a 75/25 split of WS who want to keep the marrige, and those who just want out. Nothing scientific to back that up, but just my gut from reading various forums. I don’t think the ratio applies as to successfully reconciling as I think that number is lower than the 75% But the WS somehow thinks there situations are different from the other cheaters. They had their good reasons! Mine needed something to make her feel young and relevant. Others sight many other reasons. Hopefully, as time goes on they realize there was no reason to do it. I was relatively lucky mine got there quick. There are however stories here where the WS never gets there.

But you are right. Every WS should look at the affair as an exit. Even if it might not be what they wanted

In my case, I believe the exit was made possible only b/c I had pushed the OBS to wake up and see her WH for what he really was, a POS serial cheater who cheated on her while she was 7 months pregnant.

This situation made life untenable for the OBS and the AP, and forced the AP in my case to glom on harder to my WW. My WW was still considering to stay or not, and I know for fact that if the AP dumped her, my WW would have stayed, which would have been to my detriment. I was scrambling after DDay to fix things, and my WW was wavering, but the AP kept in her ear, even after promising his own OBS that he wanted to fix his own marriage.

I think a lot of Affairs can end up being an exit, but it does make a subsequent R a lot harder to swallow for the BS if they know that they were about to get tossed to the side for some shiny toy, only to have the WW come crawling back when shit blows up in their face.

In my case, my WW is still with her AP now yrs out. They have to glom on to each other now that both the OBS and myself have moved on to better pastures. They're now stuck, and I suspect not as happy as they try to portray.

Still, I'd love for her to come back and ask for another chance so that I can laugh in her face. Regret ,remorse, exit or not, having gone through this once, I am confident in saying that D was the right outcome, and should be for most affairs. If life was too short for the WW and they wanted to try on newer shinier toys, than once the A happens, the BS should move on to their own newer shinier life without the WWs.

I agree that an exit affair seems cruel and confusing and R seems to make no sense in that instance. But how does a WS who immediately drops an AP right away when they were potentially ruining their marriage over that affair make any more sense? Both situations seem pathologically weird to me. I can't make sense of the thought process and logic behind either.

In my WH's case, we weren't living together during his affair. He wasn't literally looking at me every day and lying. We were both disconnected, and I think he probably would have pursued a full time relationship with AP if he had left after D-day. He dropped her right away though and later said that giving up FB was harder than giving her up. What does that say about him? What did that relationship mean and why did he risk his marriage and family for that?

My WH has always been envious and rather perpetually searching in life. He calls himself an opportunist - mainly referring to careers and business, but I think it has probably applied in his personal life too. Warren Zevon has a song called "Looking for the Next Best Thing". It could have been his theme song.

I recall an instance travelling with my WH when he was 40. We had met in grad school years before, and I left a year earlier than him and started a tech business with startup funds from my mom that we both eventually ran. We had sold it and were on our boat in Isla Mujeres travelling with our children. My WH saw a party boat with spring break students and backpackers. He complained to me how he previously worked so hard through his PhD in engineering that he never had the opportunity to go on spring break. I was completely amazed of his regret and thought process - travelling with your beautiful family on your own boat and financially independent at 40 vs missing spring break or being a broke backpacker a few years earlier?

But that's not my problem. I am grateful for what I have. I live in a situation and area that I've always said would be my dream retirement, and I worked to make that a reality. If my WH leaves tomorrow for his "Next Best Thing", I'm really ok with that.