SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For a little perspective on the herpes part, according to webmd, about 50% of people 12 and over are infected with HSV2 and don't necessarily know it. It will be a reminder of what your girlfriend did, but it won't ruin your life if she's passed it on to you. But you will be reminded of her infidelity if/when those outbreaks occur.

Is your girlfriend in IC? She should be to figure out why she chose infidelity and figure out better ways to cope with life. IC might be a good idea for you, too, to help you process this. And I also think you need a new MC. Maybe you can work through this, but you need a counselor that knows more about infidelity than this one seems to.

You can take your time deciding what you want. Watch her actions over time, not her words. The love bombing and hysterical bonding are all well and good, but unless she's working to figure out why she did it and how to not do it again, it's likely to happen again.

toopol, here is my reason you should move on.

You need to find a woman that DOES NOT need a man, or a marriage, to make them self complete. Your WGF is in love with the idea of being married, not really being married to you. How do I know? Because she gave it away to the next guy who offered "marriage" and was willing to go that direction until you mentioned you were planning on proposing, and THEN she was confused. And look who she gave it away to - some diseased ass clown "player" who merely offered her the world by working in some fucking hotel as a front desk jockey, and she fell for that? SERIOUSLY? Talk about someone who already demonstrates they can fail on life's important decisions! Dude, you want a much stronger minded woman than that. You want to find someone who doesn't pick you just to "be married". You want someone who doesn't need another person in their life but CHOOSES to share herlife with you because of you and who you are. I am betting this is what you struggle most in your therapy about commitment. Buddy, you are one of those guys that just doesn't need to be married, but will know if you want to by meeting the "right one" or when the time is right. This is why you hesitate, doubt, have your WGF and the counselor try and beat into your head against what your gut is telling you!

Think about this. Current world population is 7.3 billion. The population of women between the age of 20 to 39 is 1,097,464,077. How much you want to bet in that pool are not one, or some, but millions of candidates who are WAY THE FUCK BETTER than your cheating fiance? On top of that, who don't already have an STD? Who offer a hell of a lot more as a person than your WGF could? I think your deserve better. Your gut is telling you that your deserve better. Most of all...WHAT IS THE FUCKING HURRY TO TIE THE KNOT?!?!?

She. fucked. up. ROYALLY.

She now has herpes, by HER OWN CHOICES.

You two are not married already and have no kids together.

You don't owe her a damn thing other than empathy and a "Good luck" wish on her own journey without you.

Count your blessings that this did not happen 10 years into the M when you are around 40, two or three kids with a mortgage, car payments, credit card debt, and in a town you didn't want to live in or a job you hate to go to all because it works with her idea of what "marriage" is supposed to be like. It's bad enough to eat that main course infidelity shit sandwich on its own but you don't need the side dishes of life's bullshit that get served with it. There isn't enough orbit gum and tums in one's life time to take care of that taste and tummy ache over night!

DBL post.

[This message edited by Jduff at 4:50 PM, April 28th (Thursday)]

Toopol,

Listen to SteadyChevy !

When you're WWGF allowed another man have sex with her multiple times then she was no longer you're GF. Case closed. Move on.

Toopol,

How are you mate? Ya alright? NO itches right? /me shivers..

There is a point of no return in any relationship. I mean it.

Girl can have warts. Girl can forget to brush her teeth. Girl can kiss another gent and come back and say she is really sorry..Never do it again. Emotional affair because she was lonely or coo-coo. If I am married and she was drunk, why was she there without me in the first place? I've heard it all. Dirty underwear, bad breath. I can make all kind of excuses. Kids oh man that sucks, doesn't it

But a girl I am not married to? Cheats on me, after she knows to stop, you let her know about the ring, and she keeps going.. "GAWD GIRL! What happens when we get kids .... your showing me there is no guarantee that it wont happen again, even more so your actions showed you cant stop.."

She got it in her mind that she wanted to have sex with this guy. Wouldn't stop. And kept going... Why would she stop it next time if your in a bad spot again in her mind?

Throw a transmittable STD in the mix. Nope its real simple then. Painfully simple. I love you, but I don't love your "makeup". STD'S, cheating, keep cheating.. nope...Woo-hoo..

Be glad it happened now..

The love bombing helps fill your ego. But ego is deadly. It helps us make all sort of bad choices under duress... like get herpes from a cheating spouse who wouldnt stop having sex even though she knew her fiance got a ring...

I'm okay. I'm not about to propose to her, never fear. But I also haven't left her, which so many people here have advised.

It would've been good timing for me to break up with her last night. I had an invitation to leave town for the weekend, which would have made the breakup a little easier. For a while I really intended to go ahead with it. But we had a few good days, and I could tell I wasn't sure. It's such a huge life-altering decision, and I didn't want to rush it just because I had given myself a bullshit deadline. So I decided to give myself time and wait to come out of the fog. It's been just under two weeks since she told me about it, and I feel like I'm only just starting to emerge from it.

We had a few long talks. I asked a few new questions about the affair and how it progressed, etc. At this point, she seems like the same person she was before she left. Obviously, that means she could cheat again. But I do think she feels genuinely awful about what she did, and that's encouraging. If I were just meeting her for the first time, and she disclosed that she had cheated on an ex-boyfriend and deeply regretted it, and she told me that she had herpes, and she was otherwise the same person she is today, I'd still find her attractive, and I think I'd give her a chance. And despite everything, I'm still feeling love for her. And she still seems to love me, which is ultimately what I'm looking for. So that's kind of the case for why I might give her a second chance now.

But if I were a betting man, I'd wager that I'm ultimately going to leave. 1) Even if it's possible to make this work, it's not going to be easy. I want a relationship that adds to my life and makes me stronger, not one that's a continually exhausting fight to maintain. 2) Everyone does things they regret from time to time, and sometimes big things, but no matter the circumstances, this affair was not inevitable. It was a choice, and that makes it a warning sign. It was something I never thought she would do, and it makes me re-evaluate my understanding of who she is. 3) I was hesitant about marriage before, and I certainly am now. I don't know how much to value a "gut check", but this is not how I expected or wanted to feel before getting married. 4) Along those lines, I've always longed for a romantic, Hollywood-perfect kind of relationship. It's not realistic, and so I've always seen that as a flaw. But I don't want to give up on my idealism entirely. I don't want to settle. At the very least, I need to love her. I feel that now, but that might fade as the fog clears. And if it does, there's no reason to stay.

Toopol,

I haven't commented on your thread but I see you're still struggling with what to do - and I think that's okay. If you're gf was blame shifting and gas lighting you - then I'd encourage you to drop her. But I think your gf is demonstrating some remorseful behaviour. True and complete remorse rarely occurs immediately. It can take time to fully develop as the ws sees the results of their choices. So if you want to wait a bit - I think that's wise. You don't have to decide anything on someone else's timeline.

That said, I've reconciled with my FWH - 4 years now. He confessed. He was very remorseful. We've come very far - my marriage is so much healthier than pre-infidelity. I wish this had been my marriage before his affair...but he's a true partner now - I'm a more committed wife - I'm vulnerable and communicate in healthy ways - there's so much that is better now.

But even with all that's good now...Toopol - if I could go back in time to my younger self before I married and had children ... I'd tell myself to run. You know the pain in your chest right now - the ache that keeps you awake? The inner scream inside your head as you try to grasp this cognitive dissonance - the clash between what your life is and what you thought it was? It doesn't go away. That pain is very present for years. After 4 years, it's dulled - I don't think it's left - I've just become accustomed to it.

Four years of remorse from my H - 4 years of healing - 4 years of consistent honesty - and the fear is still there. It sucks. I don't regret reconciling with my H - but I regret marrying him - if that makes any sense....

Wishing you clarity as you process Toopol...

[This message edited by sassylee at 8:42 PM, April 28th (Thursday)]

Well, I still think you're being naive about herpes. I hope you understand that you'll need to disclose this to every future partner you'll ever have. That's a real shitty conversation to have with someone you're attracted to. She's freaking out because she gets this. She just became everyone else's plan D, E, or F. You say if you met her today and she disclosed cheating and herpes, you'd still give her a chance. Seriously? Why would you take that on?? I think you should do some more research on the potential impact of herpes, particularly regarding pregnancy and child birth. While you may be nonchalant about an incurable STD, I can guarantee you that other women of child-bearing age will not be.

I don't want to come off as mean, but I think you also really need to reevaluate her judgment. That she fell for the hotel front desk clerk (seriously??) who says he can show her a more exciting life with him over you AND he's a virgin is just absurd. I mean, it's really laughable except that it caused such destruction. I'm assuming she's close to your age? And she didn't know this was just a complete line of bullshit to get in her pants?? Dude, women know this by 16 years old. I think she's either lying about it or she's just horribly naive. Both scenarios are bad for you.

I wonder how many single women would consider a romantic relationship if you have herpes? That must be a tough conversation. At what point, how far along in the relationship, do you tell someone that you have herpes?

Certainly I can feel sorry for someone who made a bad mistake and was infected with herpes but, nonetheless, I don't feel the need to suffer because of their mistake. I can just feel sorry about it as just a friend. You are taking on an awful lot of consequences and suffering in silence for her mistakes.

If it doesn't work out with your current girlfriend, and you are interested in another woman, how would you tell her about the herpes?

Then again, I can see a future there with her, even with the herpes. I see your relationship in my opinion as being way more committed than the norm, just based on having decided to go to couples counseling to stay together even before any affair occurring. As I posted earlier, when I was single, and I had several serious relationships before I married, I would never even consider couples counseling. It never even occurred to me. And neither did any of the women I was involved with. I never even heard of it for singles. This was the 1980s. Maybe that was a different era. We just figured if it didn't work out as this point in our relationship with no kids and no legal commitments or sacred vows, we weren't right for each other.

So if you are willing to work that hard even before all of this, maybe you will be able to get through this no matter what.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 4:33 AM, April 29th (Friday)]

Dude!

Do a google image search on HERPES

Seriously, she is remorseful for getting the herp and YOU are still thinking of MARRYING her, so yeah, you are her only hope for the rest of her life.

Lets put this in perspective. Think of the top 100 super hot models and actresses in the world. And you can have sex with them all. But they ALL have Herpes.

I wouldn't have sex with ANY of them!

No thank you, I'll go with above avg. down-to-earth women who are not perfect, but don't have such STDs.

4) Along those lines, I've always longed for a romantic, Hollywood-perfect kind of relationship. It's not realistic, and so I've always seen that as a flaw. But I don't want to give up on my idealism entirely. I don't want to settle. At the very least, I need to love her. I feel that now, but that might fade as the fog clears. And if it does, there's no reason to stay.

Sometimes when I read your posts I see this side of you. the side that has that perfect image of marriage, of the idea mate, of perfect relationship. I don't think you saw that "perfect" image for the first few years of your marriage...and that's why you went to "couples counseling"...and slowly became convinced that that type of perfect doesn't exists... that it's a myth...that you are going to have your hard times and good times and...

Hard times and good times are one thing but having sex with other people during your honeymoon period before a proposal is another.

You keep holding onto this image of her as the perfect girl that made a mistake. "she's like she was before..." Kid anyone that could do that to you and your relationship WAS NEVER that sweet, innocent, girl that you have an image of. You've got to stop blocking this truth out.

I guess if it's true that you would still be attracted to this woman if you met her and she told you that while in her past relationship she had cheated and gotten herps... I myself knowing the pain infidelity causes would never want to go into a relationship knowing what this person was capable of putting my health at risk on a whim that she might now cheat on me.

In your mind you think she is so special but in reality she is someone that not only could but did cheat on you at one of the best points in your relationship. You've convinced yourself that the person that did that wasn't her...but shes the one with herps to prove it was her.

This:

Dude, you want a much stronger minded woman than that. You want to find someone who doesn't pick you just to "be married". You want someone who doesn't need another person in their life but CHOOSES to share herlife with you because of you and who you are.

Thank you jduff! This can probably apply to why most of us are even here. I know it's a huge part of why I am.

Toopol, whether you stay or leave...she needs to get to the point above before she will be a healthy partner that you can safely commit to.

Toopol

There is not much else to say. The folks here have laid it all out for you. You are a young guy, getting advice from people old enough in many cases to be your parents or grandparents, and we all know kids do not always listen to the best advice.

Any major decision in life is going to give you pause or it is not a major decision.

There was recently a young guy like you who posted that his fiancé decided to have sex with 8 other guys because he heads before they met and proceeded to give him a play by play of each guy she had sex with. He got the same advice as you and disappeared, so I congratulate you for being mature enough to stick around.

I hope your brain out maneuvers your hormones and you extricate yourself from this disaster. You have too much to offer. This was no mistake, and even had the Herpes not occurred should have sent you running.

Everything and explanation she gave you comes or sounds like the bible for the "hook up culture", it felt good, it was only sex ( repeatedly while you are talking to her about marriage) and on and on.

If you marry or stay with this girl don't lose the SI website. None of us have a crystal ball, but if you play the percentages you will be back here.

For your sake, I hope you do tghe right thing and listen to your "elders".

toopol, listen to your gut.

3) I was hesitant about marriage before, and I certainly am now. I don't know how much to value a "gut check", but this is not how I expected or wanted to feel before getting married.

Trust your gut. I wish I had. I wish I had that advice so many years ago. My heart over ruled my head and my gut. My gut was right.

I don't know the incubation period for herpes. I don't know the laws about STDs either. Can a person who knowingly infects a person with an STD be carged with something. I believe they can in most jurisdictions for HIV but what about others. Another poster asked if she didn't see the obvious sores from her infecter.

How do you know this isn't her first rodeo. You have been dating for some time. She travels for work apparently. There have been other times of short separation for various reasons.

But even if it was her first time, it is enough. She talked to you and fucked him. Same in my serious dating time with my WW (which I just found out about in the DDays listed). Same thing after 25 years of marriage when she is travelling with COW OM for work. We talk every night and then she calls him to her room.

If you think it sucks now think about how it will be after so many years of investment into a marriage, where there are kids involved, etc.

I am a Christian, pro marriage and against divorce. I think divorce is too easy but God allows divorce for adultery. My stand by my advice. Run, do not walk, do not look back, leave no forwarding address. Get out of couples counselling, it is toxic right now. Get into IC for yourself. Cut your losses and flee.

Toopol, my heart goes out to young man. I have to say that I agree with the cut and run advice.

I have a younger cousin that was a church going young woman, sheltered and overall a good girl. She did the same thing as your WGF and went to a convention, met the wrong guy, contracted herpes and now she has a lifelong reminder of a stupid mistake or error in judgment. The even harder part of it is that her boyfriend broke up with her immediately. She has had to suffer in silence for years for a stupid mistake. She broke down when she told me, very depressed. The state we live has some sort of law that requires you to tell a person when you "know" or been proven you have a communicable disease, otherwise they can take legal action against (think civil, possibly criminal). dunno about all that, not a lawyer.

But I do know, that living with herpes has been a living, lonely nightmare for her, and that is the same nightmare you WGF is facing without you.

She knows if you leave, then her prospects of ever getting into another decent relationship drop tremendously. As you can see from most of the advice here, most people would not want choose the option of dealing with an STD if they had a say in it.

You will have to make that decision, but suggest you do it with careful thought and consideration with a clear and level head.

take your time, don't rush but ultimately you will see that leaving her is you only true option. Otherwise , you have volunteered for a lifelong relationship full of pain, physical and mental.

Herpes is no simply health issue like some people say...its just a cold sore...or no big deal. Can you imagine having to tell every person you want to be intimate with that you have a STD? Makes for an awkward conversation...one that you have a chance to avoid. YOUR WGF KNOWS THIS AND NOW WILL SAY OR DO ANYTHING FOR YOU NOT TO LEAVE.

She knowingly played a dangerous roulette game and lost, now its time to pay the piper and she wants to share the cost with you. That cost is a lifelong STD and the price is very, very high. consider carefully what your next steps will be.

Thank you all. I'm not rushing myself into a decision, but I'm still here reading.

I have to say, I'm not very persuaded by the people who say "it's sure to happen again" or "she's just acting remorseful to manipulate you" or "there's probably a lot more she didn't tell you" or "just imagine the sex!" or "ew, herpes!" None of that rings true to me. Re: herpes, it truly sucks, but it's pretty common and not that serious a disease. I think my generation (and more importantly, my doctor) doesn't view it the same way that many of you do.

Here's what hits home:

You know the pain in your chest right now - the ache that keeps you awake? The inner scream inside your head as you try to grasp this cognitive dissonance - the clash between what your life is and what you thought it was? It doesn't go away.

I've read that, stereotypically, men tend to focus on the physical side of things and women tend to focus on the emotional side. I'm somewhere in between, I guess. The mere fact of sex with another guy doesn't bother me as much as I expected it to. But the thought of her looking forward to it, giddy with excitement, or them taking off each other's clothes... with no thought for me in that moment... that part really hurts.

"But the thought of her looking forward to it, giddy with excitement, or them taking off each other's clothes... with no thought for me in that moment... that part really hurts."

YES!

Your words definitely fit with how I feel!

During those times, they were exactly where they wanted to be, doing exactly what they wanted to be doing. They enjoyed the excitement. They enjoyed the pleasure. They chose to stop their love and commitment to us. They chose to betray us in the worst way possible. And they did so with smiles, laughter, jokes, and orgasms with other men! And they did this knowingly...completely aware of the choices they were making and the betrayals they were committing. The devastating pain this has caused feels unbearable at times. I'm with you.

I'm not rushing myself into a decision

I think what you are hearing is the benefit of experience and hindsight shaping the opinions of many to urge you to walk away given your circumstances. However, betrayal wasn't the immediate dealbreaker many of us thought it would be, so the fact that you are taking your time is something you share with plenty of others here on SI. I still remember how long it took me to process what happened and to work my way to a point where my head and heart knew that I'd be ok with ending the relationship. Please don't discount what people here are trying to share with you because it does come out of a desire to help, but do take the time you need to come to a decision.

with no thought for me in that moment... that part really hurts.

You've been through a massive emotional trauma. What part hurts the worst varies from person to person. I have to agree with you -- it wasn't just the sex that bothered me, it was the feeling of being unloved, disrespected and, in a way, discarded that really was painful. Working through that is a very difficult, long process and, in the end, there are still scars that are left as permanent reminders of what happened.

I'm not very persuaded by the people who say "it's sure to happen again" or "she's just acting remorseful to manipulate you" or "there's probably a lot more she didn't tell you"

Nothing is ever 100% for certain, but there are odds and there are patterns. Look for that in the advice you are being given and, even better, go read through the threads in I Just Found Out, General and Reconciliation in order to discover them for yourself.

You seem to be searching for a way to salvage your relationship. Even if everyone tells you to Run!, it is still your decision to make. If that is the path you are trying to go down, I'd reiterate this one thing. Your GF has a character gap that led her to believe that cheating was OK. Until she sees herself as broken, identifies her own, deep-seated "Why?" and then does significant work to fundamentally change herself, she isn't a safe partner.

Have you done a google image of herpes like SuperNBD mentioned?

I just did and ummm...yea you might want to.

Do a search for genital herpes it's an eye opener and is most likely in your future should you stay with her.

Sorry not trying to be harsh, but realistic.

Besides the herpes will you ever trust her again?

Really think about that...to me if there is no trust there is no relationship. Relationships should be built on trust.

You will always wonder what she is doing if she is 15 minutes late...an hour late from work or other things.

I don't remember if you said if you have talked to your parents or not. Something to think about even just Your dad. He could give you advice.