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And the threat of divorcing with those big fights. That destroyed her as well. It was said as a threat, but almost mirroring where I thought she would take the argument further to.

So you'd throw out the D word during fights because you wanted to beat her to the punch? Just making sure I understand.

I can't speak for all women, but one of the important things for me is feeling secure and protected in my relationship. D talk shits all over that. So does name calling.

Threatening D definitely raises the bar substantially. Truthfully, IMHO, that is much worse than name calling, and combined, it's very detrimental to the relationship. You're not only belittling her personally by calling her a derogatory name, you belittle the emotional bond by threatening divorce. You want to control and "win" so badly that you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, then wondering why you can't smell. It seems there is a lot of work to be done, but it can be done. I would definitely start by being more mindful of your words instead of shooting off at the hip. PAUSE, then ask yourself if this will help or hurt the situation. If it gets so heated a name or divorce threat you don't mean may fly out, you need to take a break. Walk away, even if she's still trying to argue. You can't control her, but you can damn well control YOU.

[This message edited by doigoordoistay at 3:38 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

13YearsR

Thanks for your perspective. I did shit all over it. I started with a men's group and IC. Changing is slow and laboured. The next DDays screwed me over. I feeling like I'm starting my work from scratch again. Actually, my wife actually seem to love me at this point unlike the first time. But I am not where I need to be.

doigoordoistay

Thank you again for the female perspective.

I need to sit and let this all soak in.

You want to control and "win" so badly

Yes,yes,yes. And I still go back to it.

So for these reasons, I feel that some of the regular healing rules don't apply to me. Can't apply to me. I need to heal solo. Is that fair comment?

We were doing OK, not great. I would pause, if I couldn't she would pause or go downstairs. And then ANGER hit. But I wasn't realizing my part fully. THIS. And that was scaring my W.

Thank you very much for the replies.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 4:36 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

I wish you luck on your journey. It won't be an easy one, but in the end, no matter what happens with your WS, you'll be a better person for doing the work and feel better about yourself too. Win/Win. 😁

Catch44, did you demand sex before your wife cheated?

I personally never did. I treated her with great respect prior to her cheating. I never pressured her even when we were dating.

Post A though is a different story. I am expending no effort to woo her or make her feel "special". Sex will happen whenever and wherever I say or I will throw her ass out and D her immediately. And if she doesn't like this situation, she's free to leave. I have a host of issues to deal with because of her actions - especially sex related horrors. She can deal with a few things herself. Consequences, punishment, feeling used, I don't give a fuck how anyone categorizes it. If it humiliates her too, oh fucking well, join the club.

stayedforthekids

I did. I didn't feel that is was. A lot of nights she would ask if I wanted to. She took the path of least resistence. I thought our marriage was fine. She told people we were great. And on certain levels we had the perfect marriage. The cutest couple award.

She has a lot of resentment built up.

And for sure that isn't the entire story.

She started behaviours that she shouldn't have while we were starting a business, getting embezzled, raising kids, made poor choices. But definately my emotional imput changed. So we have a situation with frequent ODS and now a lack of the emotional engagement. I opened the door and she took the steps.

I think I have done a cognitive dissonance on this one. My W is owning her A's as far as I can see right now.

My behaviour has been enough that I feel I owe my best effort at R if my W is willing to try at this time. I did everything in the thread above, and my W feels like the women above.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 6:09 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

This is from my eyes as I have been married to a WS that seems to have done what you have done. ( read all comments) maybe my ws went farther, maybe not. Maybe i am too emotional but this is what i thought and mainly focuses on the times these things happened not the relationship as a whole (kinda, towards the end of the 10y m these were constant):

the Sex on Demand made me feel like i was just a hole. There was no consideration for what was going on with me. No connection, love, and intimacy. He would come to bed at 1-2 am and demand sex regardless if i had to be up at 5 am and went to bed at midnight. He demanded right when he got home while i was taking care of the kids. He wasnt considerate of my needs to enjoy the coupling and he didnt care that most of the time i would tear or enjoy it. It became all about him and his wants, And all he wanted was to get off. Something that i enjoyed was turned into a horrible experience that messed with my mind, heart, and soul. It started to affect things outside the bedroom. Because he treated something so intimate with such disrespect i began to believe he hated me and wanted to intentionally degrade me. Hurt me. That is a scary thought.

So the low self-esteem i was gaining from miss treatment in the bedroom was givin a friend i call "bashing". Being called names like crazy, bitch, c***, lazy,worthless, and so many others blend with the self esteem and became a horrible mind fuckery that makes you feel like your drowning and your love is the one holding your head under the water. It didnt matter how often or how little the names flew, if they did i drowned all over again. Every fuckin time.

Throwing around the D word confirmed in my mind that a) he hates me b) i am worthless . I thought the only reason he stayed married to me was to cause me pain in any way he could. Yeah i know. Sounds like abuse, because it is a form of abuse. Mind fuckery for sure. Intended or not, demanding and minipulating someone for sex is abuse. Name calling Is abuse. Abuse of power, abuse of love, abuse of the relationship and the trust that was givin.

The fact that you SEE the wrong and are trying to understand what you put the other person through is so wonderful and i hope you can learn and became a great person. Knowledge is a powerful thing but only if you use that knowledge. If you dont, its just a useless tool in the shed. Good luck

Catch, I understand the utter and complete turmoil after a betrayal. It's easy for a BS to look at themselves for flaws and faults for issues in the M and how they may have contributed to the WSes A.

It's comforting in a way to think your actions had some bearing on your WW's choice to cheat. I feel (and felt) the same way in some ways. Not with ODS, but with not airing issues and creating a rift between us. It gives a BS a feeling of control over the situation. It's oftentimes the "if I fix x,y,z about myself this won't happen again" scenario. The faults and issues may be real. But we're all adults, including cheaters, we know about choices and consequences. They had other options, I can't think of many "problems" cheating fixes. I can list at great length the problems it creates though. Honestly, no action from you could compel your WW to cheat if she felt it was morally, ethically, or in any way shape or form wrong.

I am just cautioning you to make damn sure your WW "does the work" before shouldering too much of the blame for her choices. It's great to work on pre A M issues, but IME cheaters will latch onto that shit like a pit bull and the real work will never get done. I don't know your situation in detail either catch. Hell, you may be the world's second biggest asshole That doesn't mean you deserved what happened to you. Good luck bro.

sex will happen whenever and wherever I say or I will throw her ass out and D her immediately

Gross. That's completely disgusting and not at all conducive to healing. You don't want a wife. You want her to be your bitch.

Gross. That's completely disgusting and not at all conducive to healing. You don't want a wife. You want her to be your bitch.

I don't want to derail catch's thread.

I am not trying to sell anyone anything here. It's a fucked up mess and beyond gross - you have no idea... I so wish it was different. I got tired of dealing with the humiliation, mind movies, blameshifting, TT, ILYBINILWY, uncertainty, loss of dignity, and confusion. So don't judge me too harshly 13yearsR. I tried the other ways and it just didn't work for me. She threw that shit in my face. She can now fix what she broke or GTFO. Honestly, I need to D her. This just isn't going to be a healthy M ever again.

I don't know your situation, but if that's truly the way you feel about your wife, and you're not just popping off at the mouth because you're raging, you need to just go ahead and D.

That attitude is rapey as hell. Be better than that.

stayedforthekids,

No this is something I need to fix regardless. It is there. Less now that I am mindful. My coping sucks with the recent DDay. But it is mine.

Neverbeblindagain,

No I was before going to sleep. More routine. My name calling wasn't routine. I would be emotionally distant but still did family outings and sports. Is was a long slow burn....

That sounds really bad and I'm sorry that happened to you. Maybe my wife felt the same. I shouldn't assume.

Thank you for your insight.

I appreciate the male/female perspectives.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 7:17 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

Dble post

[This message edited by Catch44 at 7:10 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

I don't like it and I don't perform on command.

At this point while it is not sex on demand, it is sex more on my terms. There have been a few times where she has turned me down but for what we're good reasons. I would never force her to have sex if she didn't want to. That is always her option. I also have the option to leave if she doesn't. She broke the marital contract and at this point we are both at will participants in this marriage. If it works we stay, if not we don't.

Like stayed our sex life has changed. I am trying to be more considerate, but sex doesn't have the same meaning it once did.

I'm with you waitedwaytoolong, sex no longer has the same meaning it once did, but I hope some day it will again...

T/J

Sex will happen whenever and wherever I say or I will throw her ass out and D her immediately

Being betrayed NEVER justifies SEXUAL ABUSE in a marriage, and what you are describing is sexual abuse (feel free to check out The Center for Relationship Abuse Awareness website if you're in doubt).

End T/J

If you want to understand what it feels like to be forced to have on demand sex, please picture the following.

You've had the absolute day from hell. Car broke down, bank account overdrawn, kids fighting and throwing up everywhere, including on you. The dog runs away and you're feuding with your parents.

Finally, bed time arrives. You're so thankful this day is finally over and can't wait to fall asleep so it's really over. You walk in and your wife is wearing a strap on. She looks at you and says, we're going to have anal sex and it's so on. This is what I want and need and you are going to do it regardless if you want to or not.....

That's exactly what it feels like. Like nothing you are going through matters at all, including whether or not you actually want to have sex. Granted, this is graphic and probably predominately unlikely in most marriages, but it illustrates the point perfectly. Sex is not anyone's right and coerced, forced, or abusive sex does damage to a person's soul.

You asked, I answered.

ETA to add:

Yes, my ex raped me and sexually abused me for many years. An affair is no reason to force your spouse to have sex on demand. If you don't want to be there leave, you are correct that is your right. You will never understand what that does to a woman, just like she didn't understand what she did to you. At the end of the day, you'll have your rotting rancid pound of flesh, but you'll never have your wife's heart. I guess if that's your thing, you do you.

[This message edited by smokenfire at 8:30 PM, May 19th (Friday)]

Smokenfire nailed it.

If my husband wants on demand sex, Amazon sells blow up dolls and toys. I am a human being with feelings and want to be respected.

QS would frequently demand sex. If I said no, regardless of the reason, it didn't matter. He would get an attitude, make sideways comments, and harass me. He would be vile for hours/days. There were times I would roll over so he'd do his thing, get it over with, and leave me alone. It was less hassle than his attitude for days. Then he's complain that I wasn't into it or receptive. (Gee. Wonder why. Coercion isn't sexy Babe.) He didnt care what I was feeling, what I wanted. The magic dick had NEEDS.

There have been times when I've said no, and woken up to him feeling me up. I've pretended to still be asleep because I couldn't believe what was happening. He didn't have enough respect to take no as a no. And then he waited till I was sleeping?

Negative impact on me? I was worthless. I wasn't worth basic respect. My needs or wants meant nothing. I was not an equal partner. I was below him. I was only good for sex. My feelings didn't matter, my wants were irrelevant. That how it felt. I still struggle with all this.

Mentally, I feel if he's that hard up for booty, can't take no for an answer, and can't respect my body, he knows where the door is. Reality, I'm scared to say no because I just don't know how he'll react. I'm learning to find my voice. But there is fear.

First of all, I think it's a good thing you are posting all of this because it obviously bothers you. -- you see that it is hurtful to name call and demand sex, although I'm confused about the latter. Do you mean it was your approach to it? Like, "Drop trou, get in here and do X,Y, and Z" ? Or do you mean you just went out of your way to not be loving or make it enjoyable for her? There have been plenty of times I had sex with my WH but was I tired, not in the mood, etc. but I did it anyway just to make him happy. If I really didn't want to, he would sometimes act annoyed but that would be that. He didn't demand anything beyond that. He however is a hot-headed Italian with a foul mouth, so I'm no stranger to getting called names.

The only thing you can do at this point is move forward and change your behavior. Recognizing it is half the battle.