SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I dont think that you having sex with somebody other than your WW would qualify as a "revenge affair" at this point. It would simply be an affair. I completely understand the desire to give it a try. The world of online dating is a complete game changer for betrayed men on this front. Back in the old days it was easy for a betrayed wife to find a man down for NSA sex, but betrayed husbands generally didnt have this available to them absent a bit of serendipity (like Buzzy). In most cases having sex outside of the marriage for a betrayed man meant lying or deceiving somebody.

On line dating changes that. Just advertise yourself as a married man in an unsatisfying marriage seeking a friends with benefits arrangement.

As to the advice above, next time your WW is giving you head, say (while she is down on you): "What would you say if I told you that thing was inside somebody else just yesterday?"

No. They really don't get it. Partly because they don't get it and partly they don't want to [because if they admit it really was that bad they would implode - it is their self preservation].

When the mind movies hit [and they do frequently] I amp it up. I make it all about me. And I make sure I enjoy it.

I've been known to weep silently in private afterward.

But you asked about love making - not fu*king. I'm not there yet.

My 2 cents - try fu*king. I think of that as Compartmentalization BS style.

My wh says he gets it but there is no way that he does really.

I have asked him to imagine giving me oral knowing that another man ejaculated in me or had his mouth there. He just looked at me with a blank stare.

I have yet to have sex once since dday where I didn’t have mind movies it at least thoughts if he did this with her and that. He sounded like this. Nothing is special anymore. I know sex with me meant nothing to him so now sex with him is just sex because I can’t feel like any of it has any specialness now.

The worst part is that I have only ever had sex with wh and I feel that bond I previously felt was demolished and will probably never return. I still love him and I still enjoy sex with him but it comes with a price to me. I don’t believe he even considers how it could be affected me. He has said he understands that I may not be able to do things because of mind movies but he doesn’t have a clue what it feels like. I trigger the most at blow jobs, being on top and French kissing.

And definitely waywards can really be that clueless.

I have asked him to imagine giving me oral knowing that another man ejaculated in me or had his mouth there. He just looked at me with a blank stare.

Before I was cheated on, before I met my WW the very thought of this image would be met with revulsion from me. Seriously, he just had a blank stare??

The worst part is that I have only ever had sex with wh and I feel that bond I previously felt was demolished and will probably never return. I still love him and I still enjoy sex with him but it comes with a price to me. I don’t believe he even considers how it could be affected me.

I really identify with this. I'm in the situation (WW has had other partners). It was extremely special to me, and before I met her I was very picky with dating. Probably why I stuck it out with her for so long.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 9:48 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

I’ve received that blank stare on many occasions after dday. It basically means it never occurred to him. He has said that he understand however some actions say otherwise imho. Even if he does in some level and I believe he has put thought into trying to be able to empathize and even picture what I picture, he can’t. They can’t. My wh more than most can’t because I have never had sex with anyone else so he doesn’t even have past lovers ti come to mind.

I once asked him if he ever thought about how special that could be considered. He admitted to never thinking about it. Of course the fact that he was quite happy to have sex and oral with ap without ever questioning if she was actively having sex with her own husband does indicate that he doesn’t care either way. To me, the thought of me putting my mouth in him when he has recently been with someone else makes me physically ill. I didn’t have a choice in the matter. I’m quite certain that he had oral with her and figured a little mouth wash was sufficient before kissing me when he got him. If I had wanted another woman’s vaginal flora anywhere near me, I would have sought out a relationship with one. If I had found out that he had been with another man, same thing. I never consented to being exposed to anyone else’s possible sexually transmitted diseases. I reminded him that semen can take over a day to fully leave a woman’s body so he could have gone down on her while her husbands semen was existing her body. How disgusting is that to think about. I hope it made him feel ill but he showed no emotion.

I asked if they had been tested for std’s and why he never considered what he could be passing to me. He believed that using condoms protected him from getting anything. He didn’t know they don’t protect against everything. Again he gave me a blank stare when I tried to explain that. Eventually he said I was right with everything I said to him.

Imagine how wonderful it would be to not have any mind movies. After dday, all his previous sexual experiences came back to bother me also. The icy said it was normal and would go away. They have for the most part but his previous girlfriends di still enter my mind. Not anything like the A though. It’s there everyday. I tried to rid my mind if mine movies with alcohol on numerous occasions. Having sex while being almost black out drink still didn’t help. Nothing has. Time has made them fewer but always there still after 5 years.

He has no one in my past that could play mind games with him during sex. Now, it’s one of the things that I feel most resentment over. I flags many opportunities to have sexy with others before we became serious. I always thought he considered it special that I hadn’t been with anyone else and I thought it helped bring a special bond to our relationship to some extent but I couldn’t have been more wrong. He literally never thought of it. Didn’t care and shit in anything I considered special about it.

He once said that if he could go back and make it so that I was the only one he ever had sex with, he would. He originally said that while in his a. Huge hypocrisy there right? Even then I knew it was a crock of shit. I said of course he wouldn’t and walked out of the room. After dday, he said the same to me and naturally I didn’t believe him again. His actions show how much he doesn’t feel that way. He then asked if I wished I had been with others and in the last I would have said no, I was happy with having just him but I was no longer able to say it. I no longer feel that way.

Even if he does in some level and I believe he has put thought into trying to be able to empathize and even picture what I picture, he can’t. They can’t. My wh more than most can’t because I have never had sex with anyone else so he doesn’t even have past lovers ti come to mind.

Yes. There have been times I posed similar questions to WW and she has responded that yes, she'd be jealous or yes, she wouldn't put up with XYZ. But the problem is she was never faced with the reality, it's just words that have little weight behind them. She doesn't have anyone concrete to visualize and truly be jealous of. Her personality in general is like that, if it hasn't happened to her then he doesn't think a lot about it.

I think if there was an OBS involved she may have thought a bit differently, but there wasn't. Most of these people I think have to experience the thing in order for it to really hit home like for WW, but I think there are others where they'll never truly get it...if they did they wouldn't have to be bludgeoned over the head to acknowledge any of it. It kind of sounds like your WH is in that second camp.

Then again if you're already having sex with multiple people at the same time, maybe you're more desensitized to the ick-factor.

If I had wanted another woman’s vaginal flora anywhere near me, I would have sought out a relationship with one. If I had found out that he had been with another man, same thing. I never consented to being exposed to anyone else’s possible sexually transmitted diseases.

Bolded made me chuckle for some reason. But yeah, I know there must have been times she had sex with us in the same day and it sickens me to my core. That this guy's sweat and scent may have been on her. It felt like she was tainted, and that I became tainted. And on the topic of consent...I feel so violated by this man, that I feel like I've been raped by him in some sense. No disrespect to rape survivors.

Her AP was mostly single for our entire relationship and showed no interest in dating other women, but I can only take that at WW' word. She put me at risk. I didn't consent to any of this and the thought of being exposed to that man...I didn't want to share the same air let alone physical contact. I have this mental image of his hairy butt between her legs, sweating all over her as they do it...it's just so sickening.

Those are the concrete images that WW will never have.

He believed that using condoms protected him from getting anything.

WW used to say "we only ever do it with condoms" as if it's supposed to lessen the blow and make it better. In one way it actually made it worse...that means then he finishes inside her every time. That's the other mental image that doesn't go away easily, the thought of him reaching orgasm inside her and her moaning in pleasure because of it. Another mental image she'll never have.

Now, it’s one of the things that I feel most resentment over. I flags many opportunities to have sexy with others before we became serious. I always thought he considered it special that I hadn’t been with anyone else and I thought it helped bring a special bond to our relationship to some extent but I couldn’t have been more wrong. He literally never thought of it. Didn’t care and shit in anything I considered special about it.

That sounds like hell, and I guess now I don't have to worry about it with us separated. But this is the reason why I can almost understand madhatters and "revenge" affair. Because that is a very powerful resentment. I'm sure if I had the capacity to do a RA, WW would have had some mind movies of her own...but it would've just made things worse - probably would have given her a chance to feel really justified in blaming me. I prefer the high ground, not that I had any interest in any other women of course.

But yeah, I don't think WW really thought at how special it was. She fortunately had a low N-count (I think I was #4?) all in real relationships and not hookups/etc. IMO it's a gift, it means out of all the people I dated I thought you were REALLY special and not just another warm body. I only had one of those to give dammit!!

He once said that if he could go back and make it so that I was the only one he ever had sex with, he would.

I would make a bet that he would be the type of person to regret only being with one person, and choose to cheat later in life because they want to experience other people. It's like you're damned either way, lots of stories out there about high school/college sweethearts that marry young are like that. I find it really sad. I was content with just her, and it sounds like your sex life with your WH was even more livelier than mine (WW didn't like oral, giving or receiving for example).

I have yet to have sex once since dday where I didn’t have mind movies it at least thoughts if he did this with her and that. He sounded like this. Nothing is special anymore. I know sex with me meant nothing to him so now sex with him is just sex because I can’t feel like any of it has any specialness now.

I could have written this word for word... NOT ONCE!!

I do take meds for sleep lately that knock out parts of my brain like a light switch going off, but that just means I can redirect my thoughts and get back on track, but still... not once.

I've been known to weep silently in private afterward.

^^^ yes, and often. At times it's right after he falls asleep, and sometimes the next morning while trying to get ready for work. I can't tell you how many times I've been 5-15 minutes late for work because I have to pull my Sh*t together before walking out the door, or had to pull into a parking lot somewhere to fix my face. UGH.

I don’t cry anymore. I get very sad or very angry. Sometimes I feel rage. I’ve learned to compartmentalism -something that wh is exceptional at b I never have been. So now, during sex, the visions come and I have to try to push them away. After sex, they are gone initially

I remember my wh telling me that they met in a park and he saw a car from where he works drive by. He was worried about being caught. But he made sure to have sex before leaving. He said he had a little ED sometimes while trying to have sex and couldn’t finish but mostly yes he finished inside her. It often makes me feel nauseous to think about. There is a lot of ick factor for me. As much as I try to tell myself it’s no different than the fact that he had been with others before me, it doesn’t change the ick factor.

I know I picked up his underwear that had her vaginal flora in them. I know he touched the door handles if the car and house with her in his hands. I can barely look at his underwear.

I remember he came home sometimes and went immediately to wash his hands and even brushed his teeth. I thought it a bit weird at the time because it was out of the usual. It he made an excuse. I found a hair in his shirt and I made the excuse for him. Came up with a reason. He didn’t have to do anything. He smelled like perfume one day and he said a woman walked by him in the hall and sprayed perfume in herself and got him too. I believed that crap. The car smelled like cigarette smoke here and there and he would say it was from a smoker in a car nearby while driving but ap was a smoker and I know she was in the car, yet he says they always had sex in her car. So many triggers everywhere. I’ll never be able to overlook something like that again even if it’s innocent.

Seeing him naked can trigger me. I think about how easy it was for him to share his naked. It’s with someone else. How comfortable he must have been being naked with her. I think about her touching him and putting him in her mother and then I can’t even consider oral after that. I think about him doing oral on her and having her all over his face and him not washing his face well enough and kissing me. My brain can warp any thought and make it into something that makes me nauseous to think about. Even just his kissing her and then coming home to kiss me. The thought of any part of him touching her makes me want to vomit. I knew her for years and didn’t particularly like her. She is a loud and vile person. The thought of him touching her and her touching him makes me want to punch him in the face.

After finding out the full truth 25 months ago, WW AP still pops into my head, when we are intimate. I miss the days when it was only her and I, that I was thinking about during intimacy.

I didn't even get this far. I did feel the call to HB but WS was love bombing me and I had been attention starved for so long. I didn't trust that love bombing. I felt he was just lying again or trying to manipulate me. The kissing was enough to make me cry. He said they never kissed but come on, every word he said for years was a lie so......

I have to say that one of the things that bothered me most post D day was being wrong about my own health. You all know me, I'm a believer in know your body and treat it well. I will pay close attention to how I feel and not brush it off or ignore it. During the A years, my flora got out of whack a few times. It NEVER did before. I mean never. I couldn't figure it out. I went about fixing it with foods and herbs and trying to lower stress. Yea, thanks bud for introducing strange flora to my well balanced bod!!!!!!!!!

Wimmin have their own thing going on and its delicate. We don't need strange invaders causin a ruckus. That's highly disturbing.

Then I get the added joy of being in discomfort and thinking my system is weakened that this is going on and worrying about it.

Since then, no issues whatsoever. None.

I remember the member whose H gave her herpes. I don't know how she is now but I remember her rage and sadness. The agony of that and the mental and physical pain that she lived with. on top of her mind issues.

How do these cheaters know they aren't giving any number of conditions to their loving, caring partner? They don't and they don't want to think about it. Thinking about that ######### giving me her issues to cure makes me cross even today.

Does it not occur to our cheating spouses that when the A is over and they come back to their senses that their BS is going to picture them naked with someone else, fucking someone else, giving and receiving oral and assorted body fluids with someone else, etc., etc., etc.,...and not affect how we see them in those same scenarios every time in the future. I tried to perform oral and it just nauseated me. I loved oral before but all I see now is his tongue and her orgasming with him.

You ever see something like ice skating where someone puts on a fantastic performance but it's so scripted as to be "wooden"? In ice skating, I most often notice this in Russia, their skills are amazing, they hit every jump in exactly the right position, they land with the skate exactly where they should, and they don't stumble once. But something is missing, you'll get another skater out there, and although they might take 2 extra steps, they are skating their hearts out, there's feeling in it, and they somehow captivate us more?

That's kind of my love making post/pre affair. Today it's technically "perfect". Every spot hit, doing everything we can both dream up, quadruple axles on the regular. But it's also so practiced and scripted that it feels "wooden" to me (and probably her). It's a fantastic performance, but it's missing something, and that something in the feeling/passion/drive that, in my analogy, the less practiced but hungrier skater brings to the rink.

Another analogy, more in line with the topic at hand; if you've ever watched amateur porn, that's how I feel about of pre-A sex life. No, it wasn't as well lit, we weren't as perfect as the porn stars, we didn't do "everything" they did, but it was hot because there was real desire there. Now, it's more like a high-budget production. Yeah, we've got every camera angle, everyone is perfectly manicured and made up looking impossibly beautiful and engaging in all manner of kink, but.. It's got a hollow ring to it, we're "professionals" and of course, enjoying ourselves, but it's just not the same as it was before.

Yes, I miss the way it used to be. As I've said in another post, the "porn star" sex we have now is a good 2nd place, it's sure a heck of a lot better than the alternative. But I do miss the less "perfect" and "practiced" that we used to have. I'm not sure that ever comes back, it's been years for me, and it's just different today. And I don't want to be all doom and gloom, there are parts of our sex life today that I'd deeply miss if someone flipped a switch and it was back to amateur hour. But it's not without it's downsides.

ButfortheGrace....you’ve hit the landing perfectly. I think the other thing missing is innocence. It was just us, her and me. There could be no comparisons, no measuring up and no mornings like today when she said to me, “What’s the one thing I can say or do everyday that tells you, ‘I choose you?’ “

My head is very muddled and “WHY” once again rears it’s head. I also then wonder if they share in the mind movies of their affair but so much differently than we do. When we have sex, is she Thinking of him or of me? When I’m balls deep in the act, who is she visualizing?

What can she say or do? Can you back up time and perhaps resist his advances, keep your head in your Marriage, keep your bra and panties on, and think before you act. Beyond that, I’m not sure what to say.

Yes, I miss the way it used to be. As I've said in another post, the "porn star" sex we have now is a good 2nd place....

And that's exactly why I object to the angst about sex acts denied to BS and given to ap, though I couldn't put it into words.

IIRC, over 50 years ago, Masters and Johnson reported that the measured electrical impulses were more intense for masturbation-induced orgasms than for intercourse-induced orgasms, and yet their subjects preferred intercourse.

If you're going to R, why not go for the whole package, including building a new special-ness?

(signed) sisoon, wearing his (usual) Romantic hat

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:41 AM, January 17th (Friday)]

I told her last night that our love making has become routine, somewhat boring, and unfulfilling for me, and that I’d like to fulfill her fantasy, orally stimulate her in fore play, receive oral from her and try out some new videos, books and toys. Her response said it all. I orgasmed without any of that and I’m sorry you didn’t. Porn is never to enter this home, books might be seen by our children or worse our Grandchildren, I find missionary or doggy to be perfectly rewarding and oral is so disgusting and unhygienic. End of conversation.

Masturbation is my release and as we all know it can take the edge off, but it does not replace copulation. Oral and anal, every imaginable position and location was good enough for her AP all those years ago and she has acknowledged that, but at 65 & 70, it’s just not on the table anymore.

I'm really sorry to read that Niceguy. I can't help thinking, though, that there are woman our age (well, you're younger than me) who still want the connection and joy of sex.

What does your W do to show she cares about you?

So you feel that your WW has completely disregarded your concerns? Your explanation of her response shows that. Did you explain to her that she was blowing you off? (Sorry for the pun)

I'm not sure how you move past this. It seems that you really need some more effort from your W, but she isn't giving you what you need.

If she would engage with you on the subject, I suspect it would go a long way to helping you. At least consider options or try to meet you in the middle.

I have the same problem...I can't seem to get his whore out of my visions when we are intimate. It turns my stomach

This is how I feel. I said he is contaminated with skank. WH says he wore a condom and he can just scrub it clean. I told him it doesn't scrub off - it's like skank radiation - it is in every cell and pore of his being. You can't get rid of it.

Is divorce on the table? I get the feeling she treats you like this, because she doesn't care about you,and she knows you're not going anywhere.

It’s never too late to make the right choice. You only have one life to live on this planet, why waste another second with a wife that loves someone else more than you. You deserve better.