SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah I kinda felt like an idiot in the beginning right after I found out about the A. Mostly because I thought "How could this go on right under my nose?" The A lasted a year before I caught him. I felt stupid because I felt like they were "laughing at me".

I was ashamed for staying for about a year afterwards, but then (after he worked his ASS OFF to fix his own shit) those ashamed feelings just kind of melted away. We are approaching 4 yrs post dday now and I don't feel stupid, ashamed for staying. But it took time and a lot of effort on his part.

For some people, they find the further they get into reconciliation, that cheating IS a deal breaker. Maybe that it is what you are struggling with now????? I agree with one of the other posters that said you have put your wife on a pedestal and now that she is "flawed" you are having a hard time seeing her in the same light as when you met and married her. It is unhealthy because when we do this and they turn out to be "human", we see that they are indeed capable of making bad choices and are not perfect.

I didn't cheat on my husband, but wasn't the best person and wife I could have been pre affair. He made the choice to cheat. We both have worked very hard to get through it and have forgiven each other and though the rough times will never be forgotten, they have been forgiven and we have made the decision to stay together because at the end of the day, the love was and has always been there. It just got buried under a pile of shit that had to be delt with.

Only YOU can make the decision for yourself and what's best for you. But I can tell you that time really does help heal the wounds IF you work through the process.

[This message edited by Evertrying at 12:03 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

I think the shame comes from the self-talk we all generate. The shame goes away almost completely if one changes one's self-talk.

I write 'almost completely' because I believe there will always be that voice inside on saying 'you're to blame.'

If you feel your are betraying your core values to stay in your marriage, you have to figure out how to change the core values (through honest introspection if those things are really that important to you), or leave your marriage.

Well, I'd change 'you have to' to 'your best bet is to', but I agree. It's very hard to live in a way that violates one's values. Why put yourself through that?

Both D & R can be honorable outcomes of infidelity. My reco is to be true to yourself - go for what you want.

I think early on the BS suppresses some of their anger and resentment.

I think that's common if R is on the table.

R is a process of building the M both partners want. Part of that usually includes relying on each other for support, and it's very hard to rage at the person from whom one wants and need support.

As R took hold, I know I felt less afraid of expressing my anger. I don't think I'd consider myself healed if I were still consumed by that anger. For R to succeed, both partners need to express their feelings - but there are many ways of doing that.

For some people, they find the further they get into reconciliation, that cheating IS a deal breaker. Maybe that it is what you are struggling with now?????

I agree this could be what prompted this thread.

I get feeling ashamed, even though the shame belongs on my W. (She feels shame, too.) As I say, it's from self-talk - changing the self-talk can end the (misplaced) shame.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:24 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

I was no longer a doormat and willing to give in to keep the peace.

This is so key. And not just being a doormat to keep the peace. No longer suppressing, instead openly communicating genuine negative feelings in favor of keeping the peace.

I think it is probably very normal to feel some shame for staying – but I do hope that it isn’t a permanent feeling. If it is for me, it will mean I have to go.

I went to a women’s betrayal group and said that I had shame for giving WH a second chance. They were all much further along in the process than me and said that they felt the same at the beginning, too.

I think part of the shame, for me at least, is because like a lot of things in life – this doesn’t look like I thought it would. I had a judgement of how I would react, but of course we don’t really know what we would do until we are actually dealing with it.

In my brain I would have been a badass. I would have kicked his ass out and never looked back. I thought I would be more ANGRY. Instead I was devastated, heartbroken, sobbing, insecure, lost. My reality as I am getting through the shock and seeing a therapist is someplace in the middle. I won’t make things easy on him, I won’t take whatever he decides to do. I have requirements and he can do what I need or he can get out of my life. But it is just not the badass kicking him to the curb that I imagined.

A therapist in the women’s group told me that it takes a special amount of strength to try. That there is no shame in deciding it didn’t work out, but that there is a strength in trying.

I am hoping for peace for all of us.

**raising my hand**

My BIGGEST blocker is NOT my WH's actions today. It is the shame I feel for staying with someone who valued me so little in the past that he needlessly destroyed me, our 20 year history, our family and his own integrity. For some empty words of adoration from someone he had no respect for and 5 orgasms.

I know that if I want to stay married and someday be happy about that, (and FWIW I do like this new man I'm married to), I need to forgive myself for staying.

Easier said than done. It's a process, and I'm hoping someday I'll feel convicted one way or the other. We've seen it go both ways on SI, but the most satisfied spouses seem to have found their way OUT of infidelity by finding peace with themselves, divorced or Red doesn't seem to be a factor.

After my ex-WW's first affair, I felt numb then rug swept the whole thing due to a crappy therapist and my desire not to face the unknown. I took my wedding ring off and never again put it on. Many years later, I feel I let myself down by staying in a toxic relationship way too long. Was I embarrassed at the time because I stayed with her? I think I wanted to avoid the embarrassment of a divorce more than anything. Stupid thinking.

What stubborn said below! So true. So well articulated!

I think part of the shame, for me at least, is because like a lot of things in life – this doesn’t look like I thought it would. I had a judgement of how I would react, but of course we don’t really know what we would do until we are actually dealing with it.

What stubborn said below! So true. So well articulated!

I think part of the shame, for me at least, is because like a lot of things in life – this doesn’t look like I thought it would. I had a judgement of how I would react, but of course we don’t really know what we would do until we are actually dealing with it.

Wow this is really amazing advice. I can't thank you enough. It never ceases to amaze me how non-unique my feelings are. Some of you wrote things that I myself easily could have written. It makes me feel fellowship and I can't thank you enough. Anyway... I'll try to reply best i can. my thoughts:

Rocket: I was in IC for a long while after D-Day. A year and a 1/2 I think. I think I got all I could from my last therapist, but maybe yeah I should go back I do feel like I'm keeping myself depressed.

Sistermilkshake: You sound like you're in a great place. How long has it been since your D-Day and how long before you felt proud of your FWH again?

Jailedmind: You nailed it when you wrote

I thought my spouse thought like me.

I think this bothered me for so long. I kept thinking things like why didn't my wife feel bad the day after? How could she come home to me after having sex with someone else? How can she lie to me? How could she risk our marriage? I think the realization that she didn't view our marriage the way I did was the worst for me.

the1stwife: you always have such good advice. I think it has been hard for me to actually internalize that my wife's affair wasn't about me but rather that she needed validation from other men. I hear the words from her and from my IC and from SI but I'm not quite to the point of really believing it. Somedays I think i can but mostly I'm not sure. How do you believe it?

BluerBlue: I hadn't thought that the shame of being cheated on would linger after getting divorced. My mind keeps returning to D precisely because I want to crawl out of this shame I feel. it might sound fucked up but its encouraging to me that I may still feel ashamed if I D her. In some ways it helps to remove that option from my mind if that makes sense.

Hiking: you're words are encouraging. I agree that it feels like so far so good. I don't feel like I'm settling out of comfort. Well to be completely honest there is some of that. Dividing financing, losing this beautiful house, sharing the kids and friends is part of why I stay but the big part of why I stay is how hard she's working and how much fun we have together and how much I truly love her. Anyway... so far so good is encouraging.

Hardknocks: I realize I need to reconceptualize my marriage and what it means to be married. just not sure how to do that? sounds like you figured it out though. Maybe its enough to say my marriage has more good days than bad, its not what I wanted but its good and I can be happy most days.

grubs and hiking: yeah I have a serious issue keeping things bottled. I feel like a lot of times my talk of the affair comes across as me just bitching and wanting her to feel bad but I know I need to talk. I KNOW I do.

Evertrying: I don't know maybe cheating is a deal breaker for me. I hope not, I want to stay with her but the pain and anger remain.

Sisoon: you always give good advice. I used to talk with my IC about the fact that I believe one of my core values is I don't let people push me around. I think its because growing up my mom never stood up for herself and I couldn't cope with it. I lost respect for her and made a promise to myself not to be that way. So is it against my core values to stay with someone who hurt me so thoroughly... maybe. can I change that? we'll see I guess.

Stubbornfit: I sometimes fantasize about going into a rage on D-Day beating the shit out of the OM and never speaking to my wife again. As opposed to what I did do and go home and sit in a dark room by myself. That's fantasy is a version of myself I can respect wholeheartedly. I like your comment though that it takes a special amount of strength to try and no shame in D if it doesnt. I'll take that with me.

TX1995: Your words:

the most satisfied spouses seem to have found their way OUT of infidelity by finding peace with themselves

that is totally perfect and its what I struggle with. I need to find my peace. I feel better having written this post and reply though... so thanks for letting me borrow some of your peace :-)

I do feel shame. Reading your post just now (and you do a great job of describing the feelings of shame), the emotion that came up for me was disappointment.

I'm disappointment that WH isn't the person I though he was - I had always been so proud of him. WH and I had always been so proud of our marriage, felt like we were so lucky. In retrospect it was borderline hubris. I'm disappointed that the marriage I was so happy about and proud of has been marred by this. I don't know if I'll ever be proud of it again.

At one point our MC asked if I thought it would be helpful to have WH renew his vows to me at the time I just said no because I didn't think it would be helpful. After your post I'm realizing that maybe the issue wasn't him renew his vows to me but me renewing my vows to him. I am at the point where I feel R is going very well but that regardless of what happens I don't regret getting divorced. However, if I could go back in time and do it over would I get married again? I don't know and it will probably be years before I know.

I think that even under the best of circumstances recovering from this and reconciling with your spouse is just really difficult. Frankly it all just %*#(!~@ sucks.

I’m humiliated that I didn’t love myself more than to remain in this travesty of a marriage

I think what you're feeling is normal, considering that based on some of what you have posted your WW is a serial cheater and that just a couple of years ago she even told you she was leaving you for one of her APs, plus on Dday she even tried to blame you for cancelling a vacation with some friends, that indicates she just didn't turn on a dime and it took some time for her to come around and do some work to save the M.

Maybe the fact she didn't beg you for forgiveness on Dday and on the contrary told you she was leaving you for one of her APs has something to do with it, (plan B for her perhaps?), maybe it was the time it took for her to change her mind. How long did she take to go NC with APs ? Did she apologize to your friends for her lies ? How did you find out and did she try to deny it ? How did she take the exposure ? Did she write a detailed timeline of her betrayals ? Obviously this is bothering you a lot, as others have mentioned maybe this is a good time to post a summary of your story in your profile so that we have more info to help with the feedback.

BluerBlue: I hadn't thought that the shame of being cheated on would linger after getting divorced. My mind keeps returning to D precisely because I want to crawl out of this shame I feel. it might sound fucked up but its encouraging to me that I may still feel ashamed if I D her. In some ways it helps to remove that option from my mind if that makes sense.

It's weird how it can for some of us. I felt shame every day I stayed after DDay and that only lifted from me when I walked out the door for the last time. That was when my head and heart aligned and the sun seemed to emerge from the clouds for the first time since everything had gone so badly. Truly one of those "first day of the rest of my life" moments of joy and hope.

So you'd think all is well, and it truly is as far as my divorced life is going. That's great. But I'm glad I didn't tell many people about the cheating because I am still ashamed of every day I stayed in that house with him. It was never really R, but I was still physically there. I'm still ashamed that I picked someone so damaged. I'm ashamed of not having figured it out while it was happening. I don't own any of that shame, but it's still a battle to get past it if I think about it.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:59 AM, June 10th (Thursday)]

Hardknocks: I realize I need to reconceptualize my marriage and what it means to be married. just not sure how to do that? sounds like you figured it out though. Maybe its enough to say my marriage has more good days than bad, its not what I wanted but its good and I can be happy most days.

It's going to be very personal. No right or wrong. IC helped me figure out what I needed; as an individual and as a partner, and part of that was looking at our entire past, and considering our future. MC helped me communicate all that to my FWS.

You can get there, your choice will be yours.

outofsorts: Yeah I have disappointment too. I'm disappointed in her for what she did, disappointed the marriage isn't what I thought it was, disappointed she didn't think of our marriage like I did, disappointed I have to live with this shit now no matter what I decide to do. If I could go back and do this over... pretty sure the answer right now would be no. I just don't think I could say those vows to her knowing what I know now.

Buster123: I will write a bio. Not sure why I haven't yet really. Its kinda weird writing to nobody but I will do.

DevastatedDee: I hear that a lot about D that its the first day of the rest of your life feeling. I wish I could know how I would feel. I know I would miss her... but I would NOT miss this feeling of being betrayed. fucking sucks.

I didn't read all of the other posts, so don't judge me if I'm just repeating what everyone else has said. :)

She works very hard on R but things are different since she cheated. I feel ashamed that I stayed in the marriage. I am ashamed I still call her wife.

This is a deep thing.

At its core is the idea that your pick of her, and her choice of you, says something about you. It helps define who you are. Literally. Whatever else you are, you're the guy who married the hot babe.

Now, right before you met her, and right after you met her, weren't you really the same person? Same human being? At heart? Yet meeting her and latching up with her somehow redefined you, didn't it?

Now, you feel shame. Now her actions have redefined you...downwards. Yet it wasn't you. It was her. It's bullshit that you should be ashamed of something you had nothing to do with, yet you do (we've all BTDT).

Here's the rub. If its wrong to let her negative actions make you feel shame, it was/is also wrong to have her positive aspects make you feel proud. It was and is always wrong to let who she is define who you are. Or at least, always fraught with peril, since now the core of who you are as a human being is not in your control.

So even if you completely R, you ought to have learned something from the episode, that the idea of letting them define you was always sketchy. That ring. Those Facebook public professions of undying love. Etc.

Where you want to be is, I'm with this person because I like being with this person, not because other people (and myself) will think a certain way about me because I am with this person.

It sucks that it can take an A to learn this lesson, but it is a good lesson to learn.

Sending strength!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 11:39 AM, June 10th (Thursday)]

HouseOfPlane - wow, really good post!

Howdy Denver. I've been writing a response to this post for days. Sorry for the long ramble but you know that's how I roll.

I understand so much of what you are feeling. We have both built this life that was all we ever wanted and were happy with what we were getting from out SO's and one day we find out nothing is what we thought it was and no one is who we thought they were, even ourselves. It is surreal. I don't even know how to think about myself and my actions post DDay, and all of the sad discoveries and dumb moves I made as the truth unfolded at a glacial pace. It has been just as slow finding some balance to move forward, and figuring out how to feel or what I feel. I'm pretty impatient with the process.

I am reaching a point like you may be, wondering why I didn't handle things differently, why I wasn't a better advocate for myself, how I could let myself be so easily manipulated by someone I love. How can I believe in love that looked like that? In the beginning, I was completely hung up on how he could do what he did, but as time passes, I am looking at myself and the way I handled everything through new eyes. I'm disappointed in myself for not being a better advocate for my own safety, and disappointed that my ability to love with my whole heart is my blind spot and I got played horribly, when in retrospect, everything was screaming at me with truth I was not ready to hear. I ask myself a lot when I get stuck ruminating on the last three years - How could I have been so stupid? Naïve? Trusting? My WH is my blind spot too. I have created this mythology of our relationship that is comical in hindsight.

Yes, my disappointment in who my WH is or who he became, and my disappointment that I can't even be sure there is a difference or if it matters, is a new layer of sediment in my relationship. I'm not sure how to begin to let go of it all, to forgive either one of us and keep building on top of the new layers. It is really complicated, for me at least. But I know that I am a tenacious builder and it is in my nature to stay and fight for what is mine, for what I want. I still feel that despite everything, this marriage, this life, this reality is MINE and I will have it. I am in total selfish mode right now.

It is so freaking hard for me to separate thoughts of disappointment and betrayal from the person I thought I was in love with, and this person I am learning to know now. Some days all I can feel is love, desperate, needy, co dependent love for someone who let me buy into a myth that they destroyed for hundreds of sleazy entitled encounters over so many years. The intimacy, the friendship, the fun and the pleasure they shared, so much of that was denied to me, for years, and I have to accept that it will fester in my heart for a long, long time. He willingly left me lonely for another and let me suffer to continue his addiction to secret sex. I sucked hind tit for a long time and just thought it was my fault or my lot in life, before I realized what was really happening in my marriage. I never even considered that I had a choice, and I am working hard to understand the choices I have before me now, moving forward. I don't see anything the way I used to, and I'm still getting my bearings.

I guess the cold hard facts of the matter are the hardest to reconcile at the end of the day. But I am working to reframe my feelings for myself as something not shameful, just sad. The only tinge of shame I carry is the charade in front of those I love who don't know. When someone who doesn't know tells me how lucky we are, I feel annoyed or maybe pitiful, but I did nothing wrong but love somebody who proved unworthy, so I reject shame. Please try not to judge yourself so harshly. The things that feel like shame are really your strength and commitment and grace shining through. You are doing the hard work, and come what may, you will know you gave recovery your best shot.

Tell yourself what an amazing person you are for giving love one more try with someone you have adored so long you don't know how to stop. Be proud that you are working hard, eyes wide open and committed to the harder, but hopefully more rewarding path. We have learned so much already about ourselves on this journey and we are learning how to see our partners without filters, so we can make the right choice in deciding to stay, it that is what makes sense, or leaving if that is the path that finds us. My therapist said you seem to love your life, your family and husband very much, and you are invested greatly in this life. You can always leave, you can keep that in your pocket while you figure out what is real and what happiness looks like for you moving forward. There is never a hurry to decide. Take your time.

The more time passes the more I feel that staying can be the right choice for us, that we can write enough good chapters in the time we have left to balance out the bad. A lofty goal, but I'm up for the challenge. And I've got that touchstone in my pocket for days I feel unsure. Have you had much time alone since the truth came to light? We have been Covid jammed up each other's butts for over a year, which really helped with the trust moving forward part. But as we are starting to spend chunks of time apart moving our business, I am seeing a shift in how I am doing, and thinking. The first few trips I spiraled into mayhem and sorrow, and rage/revenge fantasies. I even broke NC with MOW just to get more off my chest and was able to handle what she threw back at me. I think I got that all out. The last few trips apart, I have been better, more balanced, and I am trending toward something that feels like acceptance. But the most important thing is we miss each other, we want to be together and both our worlds feel a little off kilter when we are apart now, and we look forward to seeing each other again. I think I am starting to be the ego kibbles/happy endorphins he was stimming on with MOW, and it feels good to be wanted, not gonna lie. We are laughing a lot more, and nobody gets our jokes like us, and we are doing more together as a couple than we ever have. Even mundane things, cooking, dishes, walking the dog, folding laundry. Our relationship was never this close or balanced before. It would be a shame to have missed this version of us if I had not stayed. Just wondering if you have had the chance to miss each other without the dread of worry/trust issues. It's good to take a minute and see how you feel when you get up above the clouds.

I wish you peace and happiness and love. All the good feelings, none of the bad. I think a little farther down the road, you won't be feeling so silly for staying, just proud of yourself for taking the high road and giving your all. Take care of yourself and stay well.

Sistermilkshake: You sound like you're in a great place. How long has it been since your D-Day and how long before you felt proud of your FWH again?

d-day was in March 2010. It didn't happen overnight, that is for sure. And, as I said, I did feel some shame at times for giving him a chance.

We went to Retrouvaille. I think that was a big turning point for us and I believe that is when I really started to feel proud of FWH. That was about two years post d-day. Honestly, I didn't ever think I would respect or feel proud of him ever again. But, I do!

Wishing you the best on your healing journey, brokenInDenver .

DevastatedDee: I hear that a lot about D that its the first day of the rest of your life feeling. I wish I could know how I would feel. I know I would miss her... but I would NOT miss this feeling of being betrayed.

FWIW, my experience was the opposite. My WW told me about her A and dumped me for the AP, all in one sitting. The pain, trauma, sense of vertigo, all of it was crushing. Like I almost couldn't breathe. I actually felt physical pain in my heart. I remember thinking: "So this is what they mean by heartbreak."

Over the long run, it was by far the best outcome. I eventually got healthy, met a woman, got married, had kids, the whole happily ever after shebang.