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I appreciate all of you and this community so deeply. It is a relief knowing that I am not alone and that there are people who have experienced this pain. My H has told me countless times that he will NEVER be willing To discuss this issue with me (his porn addiction), alleges that all of this is my issue with trust and insecurity and shuts down completely whenever I introduce the subject, try to express the trauma I have endured over the years (directly caused by his porn use and compulsive lying about that porn use), or suggest that perhaps he should seek help for his addiction. He mocks me for even trying to go to therapy, join a support group, etc., stating that it is a waste of time and effort and that "clearly it isn't effective at all" because I keep reintroducing the subject. He threatens me repeatedly stating that he will finalize this divorce because I haven't learned to drop it and move on. He then puts himself on a pedestal, alleging that he has "forgiven me" numerous times for "snooping" through his phone and that he "has never brought it up again"..... right, because he is the noble, empathetic, and compassionate one, not me. Am I wrong for trying to communicate so that we can potentially work on this issue together? Now I know for a fact that I literally cannot do that and I feel like a complete idiot for ever bringing the subject up with him even though he asks me to tell him what is on my mind everyday and pushes until I actually respond. Once I respond, he stonewalls me. What should I do? I feel defeated when I am being proactive about not snooping, getting help/therapy and trying to resolve things. Obviously, I am unable to do that alone, but I feel like a failure. He clearly wants me to continue to blame myself for the ramifications of his actions and then punishes me by stonewalling me, shutting down, and entering fits of irrational rage. This is a toxic and vicious cycle. I am trying to draw clear boundaries and standards, and it blows up in my face with each attempt. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you so much for your support, assistance, and time in reading this post. I hope you all are having a better day that I am! haha!

Gently, what can you do about his problem?

Can you change your approach to 'porn is your problem to solve, H'? Because that's what it is. It's his problem, not yours, not your M's.

You can support him in dealing with it. You can tell him to stop or you'll D him. But he has to do the work to solve it.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. You didn't sign up for it, and it's not fair that you have to take real risks to stop it.

But nothing much changes unless someone asks for a change, and sometimes nothing much changes unless a person fears changing less than they fear the outcome of not changing.

I am trying to draw clear boundaries and standards, and it blows up in my face with each attempt.

Boundaries don't work unless you enforce them. What have you done to enforce those boundaries?

Hi there, thanks for your reply and insight on this matter. You have made some very valid points. I need to separate myself and the M from the H issue here. I have boundaries, but am unsure how to enforce them without "verifying" which is snooping which I am not allowed to do, I am not allowed to talk about the subject/problem at all anymore with the H, and so I am sort of at a loss. D seems like an extreme option and one I don't want. Any other ideas on how to enforce these boundaries? I have made my views on porn use abundantly clear in detail from day one, so I don't need to talk about it, explain my hurt and trauma all over again in detail, etc. In fact, it is not my responsibility to make him understand the pain that his choices and actions have caused me over the years. Bringing it up won't make him change, and in fact, it could push him in the opposite direction. I feel a little defeated, as though all I can really do now is to uphold my end of things, give him trust and the benefit of the doubt, and more importantly keep my mouth shut. What do you think? Thanks

doggiemommy re-read this:

Boundaries don't work unless you enforce them. What have you done to enforce those boundaries?

If you aren't willing to divorce then what are you willing to do? You are clearly very upset by this. He knows that. What WILL you do? Will you move out of the bedroom?

Are you happy living separate lives while being married?

If he is flat out refusing to work on this and talk about this - then it isn't about him, right? It is about you. He is clear. What will you do about it?

Boundaries are what you are willing and unwilling to tolerate.

Boundaries are not threats to force another person's behavior.

Threat: "Stop using porn or I'm leaving."

Boundary: "You can choose to use porn or not. But if you make the choice to use it, you do so without me being your wife."

But you MUST be willing to enforce your boundary.

Frankly, I see porn in a lot of instances as a "gateway drug." I see very little upside to its use and a great deal of downside.

He's already made his position abundantly clear--he is unwilling to address any part of this issue that is so distressing for you.

Cat

Frankly, I see porn in a lot of instances as a "gateway drug." I see very little upside to its use and a great deal of downside.

Particularly in the way your husband is using it. Watching porn at work is NOT NORMAL, even for people that are ok with porn. My WS was watching it between work calls ALL day. He is now in treatment for sex addiction, but didn't get help until he had physically cheated on me. Please don't rugsweep this.

He mocks me for even trying to go to therapy, join a support group, etc., stating that it is a waste of time and effort and that "clearly it isn't effective at all" because I keep reintroducing the subject.

This is gaslighting and emotional abuse.

He threatens me repeatedly stating that he will finalize this divorce because I haven't learned to drop it and move on.

Emotional blackmail.

He then puts himself on a pedestal, alleging that he has "forgiven me" numerous times for "snooping" through his phone and that he "has never brought it up again"

DARVO (Deny Attack Reverse Victim Offender). The more you learn to spot DARVO the easier it is to see.

I have boundaries, but am unsure how to enforce them without "verifying" which is snooping which I am not allowed to do, I am not allowed to talk about the subject/problem at all anymore with the H, and so I am sort of at a loss.

Every boundary violation hurts, right?

D seems like an extreme option and one I don't want.

OK. What options do you prefer? How viable are those options?

You can't control other people's actions; you can only control your own.

"snooping" is not enforcing boundaries. Crying is not enforcing boundaries. Begging is not enforcing boundaries.

If your partner is engaging in an activity that is not acceptable for you, and you don't want it in your relationship, and they see no problem with it- the only thing you are going to be able to change is you.

So either you decide to accept the behaviour and move on, or you remove yourself from the situation.

There really aren't any other options here. You can't change someone who doesn't want to change, or see a need to change, and you need to understand that.

What do you think you are actually accomplishing at this point, with your chosen actions?

My Cheater enjoys porn too

I finally told him girls his daughter’s age are the porn actresses of today.

Would he be comfortable with a bunch of gross men watching our daughter having sex?

He said I was disgusting for suggesting that

My Cheater enjoys porn too

I finally told him girls his daughter’s age are the porn actresses of today.

Would he be comfortable with a bunch of gross men watching our daughter having sex?

He said I was disgusting for suggesting that

I get what you're saying but this is almost certainly a false paradigm.

Porn actresses not only consent to being filmed, but it's their job. I assume your adult daughter doesn't get paid to have sex on camera.

Adults are generally sexually active, even family members. There's nothing disgusting about that even if we choose not to think about it.

Sex work is work. It's a perfectly valid choice for consenting adults. Sex workers are all someone's daughter. It doesn't make it wrong for them to choose that as their job.

Porn actresses not only consent to being filmed, but it's their job. I assume your adult daughter doesn't get paid to have sex on camera

Many choose. Many are trafficked and drugged to participate. Would you want that for your children? I think that was finally a statistic that my porn addict husband heard.

I had 2 cousins who were sex workers/strippers... They were the very definition of exploited women.

Many choose. Many are trafficked and drugged to participate. Would you want that for your children? I think that was finally a statistic that my porn addict husband heard.

I had 2 cousins who were sex workers/strippers... They were the very definition of exploited women.

I suspect that's the minority. Most sex workers are consenting adults who don't stay in the lifestyle long- just make some money and move on. I have many friends and internet acquaintances who are involved in various parts of the sex work industry- anywhere from cam girls to exotic dancers to Dominatrixes.

But you can't have it both ways- the poor, exploited sex workers, and then also look at them as trash or disgusting people. That's not in your post, but they're both common attitudes towards sex workers. Sex workers are normal people the vast majority of the time. You may even know a sex worker who isn't public about their work because of the stigma.

But this is off topic for the OP.

[This message edited by PSTI at 12:21 PM, July 2nd (Friday)]

There's consent and then there's consent. Too often, they get these girls involved when they're young and stupid, before their brains are even done maturing. Then, said girl is devalued, feels "less than" and is easier to keep down and manipulate, particularly if she's also on drugs. NOTHING that objectifies human beings can be for good. Lots of people consent to stupid behavior when young, addicted, or mentally ill. It doesn't make it right. What's more, there is still the law to consider, and in many jurisdictions, and rightfully so IMHO, prostitution is ILLEGAL.

There's no magic wand you can waive over your WH's head, OP. No cure. All you can control is YOU. Maybe you're not ready to be done with the marriage and that's okay. What you might do is get in with a good therapist, gain some emotional strength, start putting your ducks in a row, and then, when you're really ready, you can chuck your porn-addict to the curb. There's no way to emotionally connect to a guy who's disinterested in who you are. You're beating your head on a stone wall trying. Give him one last chance, tell him it's his last chance, then go to therapy without him.

Hi All,

It is definitely easier for me to set boundaries than to enforce them. Yes, getting my ducks in a row seems like a good plan, but I cannot tell him that "this is his last chance" or bring up the subject of PA anymore to my H, or he will leave. He has said that this is not a threat, but a fact. Quite literally - if I ever introduce this topic and problem in our M ever again, he will walk out on me. I am guessing that he expects my compliance with these and other hard set rules that he has established, requesting that I show him the trust that I've never given him in all of our years together. I have never shown him 100 percent trust, that is true, because he kept lying about his porn use to my face even when I had hard evidence. In this moment, all I can do is work with my therapist on establishing healthy coping mechanisms and on rebuilding my self image and self esteem by disconnecting to his porn use. The fact of the matter is that he blames the failure of the M on me primarily and entirely "because I choose to bring up the issue of porn repeatedly (I do because it hurts me deeply and is an unresolved issue) in order to start a fight with him." That is what he says, and of course. he puts everything on me, refusing to acknowledge his role in the demise of the M because of his habit and his compulsive lying that accompanies these actions. He doesn't see anything wrong with it and obviously would like to continue using it without being bothered with being discovered or any ramifications at all really, stemming from me. The truth is that my discussing it with him or giving him ultimatums won't lead him to making a change, so the only way I can really keep the M and the family together is by sucking it up, dealing with it, and detaching myself from the issue. This entails not blaming myself anymore for the P use and realizing that it is not something that I didn't do, was lacking, or a defect in my physical appearance or character that led him down this path. It was a path that he chose, not me. Those are the current things that I am working on. Does anyone have any coping advice or self-esteem building tips that have proven effective for you in this situation?

rightfully so IMHO, prostitution is ILLEGAL.

Chamomile- We are not discussing prostitution. We're discussing pornography. Pornography is not illegal.

Objectification is acceptable when there is informed consent, period. It's not wrong if consenting adults enjoy it. It IS wrong when there is no consent, like in the thread a while back where someone did not enjoy being watched while she ate a banana.

[This message edited by PSTI at 3:51 PM, July 2nd (Friday)]

It is definitely easier for me to set boundaries than to enforce them. Yes, getting my ducks in a row seems like a good plan, but I cannot tell him that "this is his last chance" or bring up the subject of PA anymore to my H, or he will leave. He has said that this is not a threat, but a fact. Quite literally - if I ever introduce this topic and problem in our M ever again, he will walk out on me. I am guessing that he expects my compliance with these and other hard set rules that he has established, requesting that I show him the trust that I've never given him in all of our years together. I have never shown him 100 percent trust, that is true, because he kept lying about his porn use to my face even when I had hard evidence. In this moment, all I can do is work with my therapist on establishing healthy coping mechanisms and on rebuilding my self image and self esteem by disconnecting to his porn use. The fact of the matter is that he blames the failure of the M on me primarily and entirely "because I choose to bring up the issue of porn repeatedly (I do because it hurts me deeply and is an unresolved issue) in order to start a fight with him." That is what he says, and of course. he puts everything on me, refusing to acknowledge his role in the demise of the M because of his habit and his compulsive lying that accompanies these actions. He doesn't see anything wrong with it and obviously would like to continue using it without being bothered with being discovered or any ramifications at all really, stemming from me. The truth is that my discussing it with him or giving him ultimatums won't lead him to making a change, so the only way I can really keep the M and the family together is by sucking it up, dealing with it, and detaching myself from the issue. This entails not blaming myself anymore for the P use and realizing that it is not something that I didn't do, was lacking, or a defect in my physical appearance or character that led him down this path. It was a path that he chose, not me. Those are the current things that I am working on. Does anyone have any coping advice or self-esteem building tips that have proven effective for you in this situation?

Why do you want to stay in a marriage where your partner ignores your boundaries?

Ultimatums are about control. Boundaries are not. Boundaries only reflect what YOU will do. Rules are what you try and put on someone else.

You are correct that you can't change him. His porn use is not about you. It has nothing to do with you. He has decided he is unwilling to give up porn. You get to decide if you're okay being in a marriage with porn use to such an extreme that it's used at work which may eventually cause him to be disciplined or terminated, or if you're okay with bein invalidated and brushed aside.

If you are looking for ways to accept the porn use and continue on in the marriage, may I suggest counseling for yourself?

Chamomile- We are not discussing prostitution. We're discussing pornography. Pornography is not illegal.

Semantics. Whether the check comes from some skeezy "john" or from a pornographer's production office, it's fucking for money.

Objectification is acceptable when there is informed consent, period. It's not wrong if consenting adults enjoy it. It IS wrong when there is no consent, like in the thread a while back where someone did not enjoy being watched while she ate a banana.

That's YOUR opinion... and guess what? You don't get to be the final arbiter of what's right and what's wrong. Next thing you'll be telling me not to believe my lying eyes, but I KNOW the role porn played in my WH's betrayal of me, just like this OP KNOWS the damage it's causing to her marriage.

Chamomile- no, it's not my opinion. If people are consenting adults and they all provide informed consent, then it's no one else's business to judge them. It doesn't involve anyone else.

In the OP's case, she is not giving her consent. It's an entirely separate issue.