Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: Stilldealing

Just Found Out :
Is there hope to fix this?

This Topic is Archived
default

M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 4:28 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

MH,

There's a few things I have been thinking about in relation to your situation, and I will post them now, just as food for thought. If they're crap, ignore them!

She is being coached by her boyfriend and he was the one telling her to be nice to you.

More than likely right.

Is it possible or ok to say he may be manipulating her. To get what he wants?

Of course she is trying to manipulate me too......for the most part unsuccessfully; at least when it comes to terms in the D.

I have done a lot of thinking about the process an AP goes through to get someone to cheat, and the conclusion I have come to is that they achieve something that I call 'freeing the beast'. Earlier in the thread, you mentioned that you thought she had been 'played', so I want to run my 'beast' theory past you, and see if it may be a bit nearer the mark than the notion of 'playing'. To me, 'being played' suggests an element of being misled, or lied to. I actually believe that what successful APs do is deeper and darker than that, which is why it can seem to be so inexplicably powerful, and change 'nice' people into someone we do not recognise.

Rather than 'playing', or stringing people along with promises they will never make good on, I think that the process in many cases involves an AP enabling and encouraging the potential wayward to unleash thoughts or desires that they might otherwise think improper or wrong to consider, let alone indulge. To say the unsayable, think the unthinkable, and do things they might never have done without someone coming along, unlocking the cage door, and freeing the 'beast' in them.

However, the process of freeing the beast is very different to mere 'playing', because it relies on there being a beast in someone in the first place. And it has much more impact on the individual concerned than 'playing' or misleading, because it is not about an AP acting like a hypnotic svengali and imposing their own will on a hapless victim, but rather its power comes from within the individual themselves.

This is what many BS's cannot understand, and they wonder how an AP has such a peculiar hold over their wayward. In fact, it is not that the AP is using mind control or hypnotism, it is that they have encouraged the wayward to drop their own boundaries and ethics, and enjoy the ride of giving in to their darker desires or thoughts. So the 'power', such as it is, does not come from the AP, but within the wayward themselves. What waywards do is not done because they are puppets of the AP, but because they have given in to something within themselves; the beast that the AP has freed.

Now, it is entirely right to think that the AP has freed the beast because it suits them to do so, but what we have to understand is that the beast is not something they have implanted in the wayward, it is something that was within the wayward all along that has simply been let off the leash. That is why waywards can seem like totally different people, and do things we never would have thought they could. But it is not the AP making them do it; it is the waywards riding on the backs of their own internal beasts that they have been talked into freeing.

Once a beast is free, the AP doesn't need to do very much at all, because waywards frequently convince themselves that they were actually wrong to have kept the beast caged for so long, and may even demonstrate resentment at having done so, with statements like, "I have been unhappy for years", as if keeping the beast caged was a form of abuse by the spouse that they have decided to betray.

Does any of that sound familiar to you and your experience?

Can a 'beast' be created by an AP? I think so, but only if the component parts already exist within a wayward's mind and personality. An AP can, through discussion and suggestion, 'help' a potential wayward to form a set of scattered component parts into a coherent, solid 'beast' that did not exist in that form before, even if all the parts were there for years.

The big ones APs work with are suppressed desire, unfulfilled wishes, and latent resentment. The latter is the driver behind statements like, "I've been unhappy for years" (which you yourself have been treated to), which strikes so many BS's as complete nonsense, because the wayward had never previously mentioned any dissatisfaction or unhappiness, so it just sounds like a convenient bullshit justification for terrible behaviour.

I used to think that myself, but what I now think is that perhaps the wayward's resentments did exist in the past, just in the form of a lot of scattered elements that were nothing significant in themselves, but which became more significant when the AP 'helped' the wayward to put them all together to make a full-on 'beast'. But that beast is actually produced by the wayward, from things inside themselves, and the action of freeing it is the decision of the wayward, not the AP.

In fact, if the 'beast' has been built 'properly' by the AP and the wayward, its freeing can be accompanied by a sense of justification and outrage by the wayward at having had to keep it caged for so long. How many BS's have been shocked by a level of aggrieved aggression in their waywards? Quite a few! I believe this process is what lies behind it.

Waywards themselves do not fully understand the nature of the 'beast', and often try to rationalise, justify, or intellectualise it. It can be hard for many to admit or accept that their 'liberation' is actually a betrayal of their own values and ethics. As part of the justification process, they will often demonise the BS, who suddenly becomes the fount of all their unhappiness, and whose alleged wickedness makes the affair not a transgression, but a liberating act of revenge on a cruel oppressor. Is it any wonder so many BS's are left thinking WTF???

Maybe that all sounds like garbage, but the reason I have written it is because I have followed your thread from the beginning, and a lot of your wife's actions match my thinking on 'freeing the beast'.

For example...

To create the beast:

Hell I didn't know anything was wrong and according to her she didn't know anything was wrong until she met the OM.

To justify the beast:

Once again she has tried to blame me for everything saying she had the A because she has been unhappy for a long time (like 5 years).

...she said...I was only in it for the money.

The realisation that the beast is actually a blossoming of something toxic from within the wayward themselves:

She is either so deep in the fog with her OM...Or she has turned into just a plain mean person.

Recognition of the beast as a fundamental change in the wayward's personality:

I still want my wife back.....But the wife that I married not the one that she currently is.

When I agreed that we take 30 days apart and try and work this out; I only had one ground rule. She would not see the OM and cheat and of course I told her I would not cheat or try to get even. (I could never do that) She promised. She got in her car and I watched her leave. Not a minute had passed and she called the OM. At that moment I knew what I was up against.

The beast revealing itself by projecting its own toxicity onto the BS:

...when I asked for support in the counter she said that reinforced her view that I was only in it for the money.

I actually think that a major part of the resentment that formed your wife's beast may be the fact that she was the major earner, and the AP encouraged her to start seeing that as an imposition by you, thereby turning you into a freeloader in the eyes of her 'beast'. Step back and think about that 'in it for the money statement'. Many here have said it sounds like the most stupid thing ever, but I believe it is actually very revealing about what led your wife to build and then free her 'beast'. Financial resentment. He helped her see it, and she used it to make her 'beast'. And when she freed it, she felt perfectly justified to do it, because you had become a freeloader in her mind. Does this sound at all possible? Might it explain her lack of guilt and remorse, and that weird sense that what she did was 'right'?

Then there are the self-serving delusions to ease guilt:

She did tell me a few weeks ago that she had planned to come back when she left on that day in July. I asked her what change then and she didn't have an answer for me.

There was no answer because it was not true. She was talking to herself more than you, trying to convince herself she did not just abandon you. Had she wanted to come back, it would have indicated a desire to be with you, and if she had wanted to be with you, she would not have left in the first place.

And finally, a recognition of what so many BS's end up facing:

At that moment I knew what I was up against.

That last statement, MH, is why you need to step back, disengage, and let your lawyer fight aggressively for what is yours. You are not fighting your wife, you are fighting the beast. The beast resents you. The beast sees you as a freeloader, and has admitted that. The beast feels justified in abusing you. The beast is irrational and unpleasant, but until your wife recognises it for what it is, she will remain in its grip, and there is little you can do to change that. You just have to defend yourself.

I know the wife I married is gone forever.

That is not an absolute. She will be gone for as long as she embraces the beast as a flowering of herself, and fails to recognise the toxic waste that powers its heart, and the bile that flows through its veins. That is why, for the time being, all you can do is defend yourself from it. There is a chance that one day, maybe, she will look into the mirror of her soul and see the ugly gargoyle of her own making that she has allowed to take up residence there and rule the roost. At that moment, if she recognises the beast for what it is, and rejects it, she may finally start to return to being the person you remember. But there is no way you can make that happen, only she can do that, and there are no guarantees that she will get that moment of insight.

For now, you have to recognise that you are dealing with the beast, and act accordingly.

I am sorry if what I have written seems like fairytale hogwash, but it seems like the best way to express what I see happening in waywards when they build a reason inside themselves to cheat, and then act on it. It is an attempt to take a different angle to try and make something so crazy and wicked a little more understandable.

I wish you luck, MH, and we will all be here to keep supporting you through this.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 7979820
default

AffairofPast ( member #55530) posted at 4:41 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Yes, years later. I did R, and it was a long process.

I will PM you, don't want to t/j.

For the record, I do understand the why you still hold on to wanting R. It won't matter if she is addicted to the A.

Sorry you're here, but you will pull through.

posts: 116   ·   registered: Oct. 8th, 2016   ·   location: Southwest USA
id 7979834
default

hansvoleman ( member #55284) posted at 4:58 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Interesting theory, M. Should it be moved elsewhere so we can discuss without t/j the OP?

When you cheat the first person you betray is yourself.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: UK
id 7979847
default

Sybo ( member #46689) posted at 5:06 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

For the record...

This:

Hell I didn't know anything was wrong and according to her she didn't know anything was wrong until she met the OM.

Is completely at odds with this:

saying she had the A because she has been unhappy for a long time (like 5 years).

also of note...the "unhappy for years" statement is pretty much standard wayward script speak

DDAY Feb 2015
Divorce finalized 4/4/16
Update: EX gave Nail Boy the boot 3/18 - Fairy tales don't last apparantly
My new zipcode is ZERO FUCKS GIVEN. It's a great town.

posts: 852   ·   registered: Feb. 6th, 2015
id 7979854
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 5:10 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Thanks AffairofPast I look forward to your PM.

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7979859
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 5:23 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

M1965,

I think your theory may be pretty close to what is going on in her head. She might have only needed the AP to put the thoughts in motion.

I think I have stated this before but I will say it again. When my wife and I first met she didn't really make all that much more money than I did. I fully supported her on my small salary so she could use almost all of her income to pay off debt from her prior relationship (her xbf took out credit cards in her and ran them up).

I did this because I loved her and because we wanted to buy a house together and get married. (which all happened). She used to make the joke that she needed to increase her earning because she was going to marry someone who works in education (me). She knew going in that my earning growth wouldn't be much. Education is kinda a thankless job.

So maybe it really did bother her....I don't know. Or it bothered the beast in her. Along comes the AP, much older than her and making almost twice as much as her and the seeds are planted. The life we had built was no longer enough....she needed more.

So I guess I could say the same thing to her......It's all about the money with the AP......or the money I don't make.

I do like the beast idea though.

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7979878
default

tessthemess ( member #56395) posted at 5:33 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Read the thread, good job on the steps you've taken to free yourself from infidelity. I might also note that your tone seems measured and not at all 'hot-mess'y, which I totally commend you for!

The nice thing to remember is that you have clarity on your side and peace. She's thrown herself into chaos and chaotic people behave accordingly. You know how this will end up for her. You'll be fine, you'll have your integrity and health intact. As you have said, this man is twice-divorced and takes a cheating woman. Relationship-wise this man is a disaster and it will play out poorly for her. She already sees it but has made her choices and now needs to double down on them. Good for you for being tough.

Enjoy the laughs when they come!

Free Bird, 36. STBXH, 36
EA confirmed Nov. '16, PA exposed Dec 11, 2016.
No longer a mess.
Separated and heading towards D as of June 1, 2018.
"It's a good life if you don't weaken." - Gord Downie

posts: 1443   ·   registered: Dec. 12th, 2016   ·   location: The Great White North
id 7979889
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 6:37 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

I might also note that your tone seems measured and not at all 'hot-mess'y, which I totally commend you for!

Thanks! I'm trying. I do have moments of clarity. However, I must admit the emotions hit me from time to time and I turn into a mess for a few minutes. This rollercoaster is tough!

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7979964
default

BYE-Bipolar ( member #41615) posted at 8:32 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Wow…I think that M1965's post above should be made required reading by every betrayed spouse who comes here.

His words really resonated with me!

While it may not fit the case of every single member here, the analytical thought process outlined in his words will certainly apply to many if not most who come here seeking understanding of their horrendous situation and a basis upon which to move forward and get out of infidelity.

Thank you, thank you, thank you M1965.

Bye-bipolar

Do what's right…
Do it right…
Do it right the first time.

posts: 71   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2013   ·   location: MidWest
id 7980072
default

Limboaz ( member #59200) posted at 9:32 PM on Friday, September 22nd, 2017

Along comes the AP, much older than her and making almost twice as much as her and the seeds are planted.

Well perhaps Buff's career might go into a bit of a tailspin when his employer finds out he is having an affair with a married subordinate.

If you haven't yet, you may wish to read OhForANewMe's thread to see what happened to POSOM#2 when the affair was exposed to his employer.

posts: 118   ·   registered: Jun. 13th, 2017   ·   location: Southwest
id 7980135
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 9:51 PM on Saturday, September 23rd, 2017

WW came over after work yesterday. We had sold our rental property last week and our checks finally got delivered. So she wanted to get that taken care of. This is something that we had plan to do (sell the property) well before she even knew the OM.

Anyways, it seems that she has calmed down from the counter suit where I am asking for support. She walks in the house and acts normal like nothing is going on. This is after she was so angry texting me and talking to me on the phone on Wednesday. I asked her if she was done with me. Her response was odd "I'm not done with you......yet" She then proceeds to tell me that she needs to talk to her lawyer before she can decide if she wants to continue to try to work it out with me. Not that there was an honest effort. (I guess her lawyer must also be a therapist?) Doesn't make any sense.

[This message edited by MissingHer2 at 5:34 PM, September 23rd (Saturday)]

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7980890
default

goalong ( member #57352) posted at 10:02 PM on Saturday, September 23rd, 2017

Reading your last post one will think you are the cheater. She is bidding time keeping you guessing. She has very shallow values in my opinion. Giving herself to advance has career. In her mind you are not professional enough. She is career oriented in a selling her soul way. Marriage should not be based on such thinking and values. Get the best deal you can especially you helped her in her not so professional times. Sure you will find some one who think marriage is not all about money and status and start a family.

[This message edited by goalong at 4:03 PM, September 23rd (Saturday)]

posts: 819   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
id 7980898
default

Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 1:58 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

She's playing games.

posts: 1788   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 7981023
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 2:02 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

She's playing games.

I know she is with me.

Is is also playing games with the OM?

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7981025
default

Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 2:28 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

She sure is, because she's a bad person.

Also...who gives a shit? She's his problem now. Bad people deserve bad people. You are not a bad person.

posts: 1788   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 7981039
default

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:43 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

Bad person? Don’t think we know her well enough to make that call.

What is clear though is that she’s controlling the process.

That’s not good.

Keep one thing in mind: Divorce is not an uncontrollable process. It can be stopped all the way until the judge signs the documents and bangs his gavel.

Missing:

What you need to make clear to her is that irrespective of what SHE might be doing then YOU are moving out of infidelity. YOU. YOU. YOU!

Don’t ask her if she’s done with you. Instead tell her the truth:

“There is only one thing that I fear more than divorcing you. I would do nearly anything to make this marriage work. The ONLY THING I refuse is to SHARE YOU. That is what I fear the most. I am getting out of infidelity. If that is through divorce then so be it. I am at peace with that decision. You have a small window of opportunity where I might be willing to work on our marriage, but I am STILL keeping my momentum to get out of infidelity”.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 13142   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 7981053
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 2:55 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

Thanks Bigger

That certainly is the approach I need to take. I'm just not quite at peace yet with D.....Even though I know that is where it is currently headed and in process. I hope I get to that peace soon.

Keep one thing in mind: Divorce is not an uncontrollable process. It can be stopped all the way until the judge signs the documents and bangs his gavel.

You are right, it is a controllable process. Should see this coming week if she is willing to put the process on hold legally. Doesn't seem likely at this point.

I know I sound pitiful currently. It comes and goes. One moment I feel alright and the next not so much.

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7981056
default

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:05 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

M

It’s OK if she puts the process on hold if she commits to the marriage and reconciliation.

It’s NOT OK if she puts the process on hold to get more days of you waxing her car and she riding back home to OM.

Unless or until she tells you CLEARLY OM is out of the picture and she’s committed to the marriage – YOU keep the momentum of divorce moving.

You not being happy with D… not an issue. It’s like not being happy with getting wet in rain. If you are going to tell me now that D will make you more miserable than her being with OM… then there isn’t much anyone can do to help you.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 13142   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 7981062
default

 MissingHer2 (original poster member #59767) posted at 3:15 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

Unless or until she tells you CLEARLY OM is out of the picture

That is what she currently thinks I believe. Although I know it isn't the case. If she moves back to our house I will believe it then.

You not being happy with D… not an issue. It’s like not being happy with getting wet in rain. If you are going to tell me now that D will make you more miserable than her being with OM… then there isn’t much anyone can do to help you.

Your right D won't make me more miserable than her being with the OM. It will allow me to move on with my life.

D-Day 7-2017
D Finalized 5-2018

posts: 122   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2017
id 7981071
default

5454real ( member #37455) posted at 3:37 AM on Sunday, September 24th, 2017

making almost twice as much as her

our checks finally got delivered. So she wanted to get that taken care of

she needs to talk to her lawyer before she can decide if she wants to continue to try to work it out with me

calmed down from the counter suit where I am asking for support

Why am I sensing a pattern?

[This message edited by 5454real at 9:38 PM, September 23rd (Saturday)]

BH 58, WW 49
DS 31(Mine),SD 29,SS 28(Hers),DS 16 Ours, DGS 11, DGD 8, DGS 3
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 13yrs
"I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone."
― Sophocle

posts: 5670   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2012   ·   location: midwest
id 7981086
This Topic is Archived
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20250404a 2002-2025 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy