SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In R here as well. Made mistakes at first and played the pick me dance for 24 hrs. Scorched earth after that. It’s when you play hardball that things changed, but even if we wouldn’t have reconciled , I would have gone scorched earth. Being nice doesn’t help swing things toward R. The old saying “you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it” is so true. It doesn’t mean you will, but the goal is to get out of infidelity first and formost.

Here's a somewhat harsh recommendation: Go ahead and send that text.

When she does not give the ring back, you will know who she is.

Will you get angry then?

As to the ring, the law in most states is that an engagement ring is an unconditional gift. The fiance is under no obligation to return it, even if she cheats and breaks off the engagement.

This makes things somewhat tricky concerning your family heirloom ring. If you give her a heads up about the ring, she may consult legal counsel and figure this out.

If the ring is really important to you, I would recommend you show up and get her alone in a room where your physical presence is intimidating and demand it back. There on the spot. Do not leave without it.

If she gives it back to you, that again is an unconditional gift.

Have you ever imagined your wife having sex with the OM? Like those pics were just foreplay? Doing all the things she did with you, and more?

My WW, like many others we've heard of, really went all out with her AP.

You don't want to look back on that and feel like a grovelling chump. It's a bad feeling to let yourself down like that.

Conan's advice is best: "Crush your enemy. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentations of the women."

File and ghost man. You don't want this one long term. She's baaaaaaaad news.

She is so caught up in her image of me "manipulative, vindictive, abusive" that I feel I need to take a graceful approach.

Why worry about what she thinks? She has re-written you as an ogre, even though you know that you are not one. You are already taking a 'graceful approach' by not going scorched earth on her. Being nice does not mean that you have to let others walk all over you, and that you are not allowed to get angry. That would fall into the category of 'doormat' behavior, which means being taken advantage of all the time. This is not being a nice guy, it is being weak.

For me and the person I am, I can still come from a position of strength.

Then show it. Stop asking for decisions from her. Make the decisions for yourself.

I can tell her that I am going NC and focusing on me and that if she wants to reconcile, she'll need to show me.

Good! And make sure you do what you say. Don't waffle, wring your hands, and think that you might be being too hard on her.

But yes, I do feel that this contact is fruitless and is not really serving my needs.

Good again! Realising this is part of the battle in your head.

Yeah, 1survivor you definitely pieced it together pretty well. I think a text stating 'I will be stepping back and re-evaluating this painful, awkward situation and doing what's best for me. I will be in town next week but I don't think it's a great idea to see each other. If you would like to see me, let me know. One thing I am sure of is that if you are not wearing my Mom's ring, I would like it back' would be appropriate.

The part in the message where you say 'I don't think it's a great idea to see each other. If you would like to see me, let me know' just smacks of indecisiveness and vesting control of the situation over to her. You want to be the nice guy, and don't want to hurt her poor widdle heart. Oh dear.... Puhleeeze. If you want, just tell her that you will be in town, and will be collecting the ring back. If she cannot hand it o you in person, then hand it over to someone you can collect it from.

The ideal situation is that you tell her to mail the ring to you. Does not matter if she is still wearing it or not (for all you know, she might have sold it). This will negate any face to face contact, which will be beneficial to you.

Here comes the 2x4...

The ring is a distraction and is irrelevant.

You can’t control your WW. You can’t make her love you.

She is a cheater, she is not remorseful, she moved away after discovery. Read some of the stories here in JFO where spouse moves heaven and earth after discovery... this is not your case. R is not a possibility.

You text sounds like you’re begging her to return. That won’t work.

You need to detach. You need to get a lawyer and divorce.

The graceful approach seems to be working out really well for you. She's got a doormat at her beckon call, and you happily accept whatever shit is on her shoes because you don't want to hurt her precious feelings.

Did you ever think she might just be playing you by using bogus fragility to back you off and keep you on a string?

Dude, sack up. You're getting great advice. It's time to go scorched earth. Don't send her a heads up text telling her that you really want her, but you're going NC to work on yourself....unless she wants to talk, at which point you'll be there.

Cut her off completely. Don't give her a heads up. Just do it. You're making a mockery of manhood if you don't. Sorry to be so harsh, but if you were a friend of mine, I'd be slapping you in the back of the head to wake up.

You're making a mockery of manhood if you don't.

It's not just the "being a man" thing. It's self-appreciation. You are groveling. Don't grovel. Don't say "I'm going NC but I'll be there if you want contact." She has had umpteen chances and hasn't expressed any inclination toward R.

Gently, she doesn't want you.

Value yourself. You are worth 100x more than being her partner. Stand up and tell yourself that you are moving on. That's the way to respect yourself and have grace in your heart. That's the way to be proud of your actions. You can do it. Many of us have when we least expected that was in us. I know you can too.

Sorry to be so harsh, but if you were a friend of mine, I'd be slapping you in the back of the head to wake up.

No, thank you. I know I need to wake up. She will talk to the marriage counselor today, I doubt she'll pick up the phone when he calls. I feel like it's a bad idea though since she's still blaming me for everything. But maybe he can talk sense into her, I don't know.

As for the manhood thing, yes. You are all correct. I am making a mockery of it. Standing up for myself is hard, I don't know why. I'm tip toeing, being scared of pissing her off even more. I am trying to be graceful and stand my ground on how I am acting even in the face of her horrible mistreatment. I hear you all loud and clear, but I find pulling the trigger to be very hard and I don't know why.

Maybe instead of being gracious to her, I Need to be gracious to myself. Allow myself the opportunity to heal and move on gracefully. Not sure how to do that other than NC and D, which I don't think I am ready to D. I am sorry guys, I have so many feelings tugging me in all directions.

On one side, I want to go scorched earth, say fuck you you stupid bitch and destroy her. On the other, I want to walk a graceful path and show her who I truly am. That she can treat me like absolute dogshit and I can still find it in myself to be respectful. And then I have feelings in the middle, where I just want to go NC and wait. I feel pulled so much that I am breaking apart.

MC in an ongoing affair is a waste of time.

It’ll be all your fault, etc, etc, etc.

See an IC and fix yourself. That’s your biggest issue now

You can file and have her served any time. I would however pay a lawyer to draw up the papers so you can do it when you do find you are ready.

But what I really want to say to you here is that this talking to her is not working for you. She’s accusing you of things you didn’t do, gaslighting you for just taking care of the bills and in no way even mentioning she is currently having an affair.

My suggestion to you is to say one thing and one thing only, and then go NC. The one thing I’d say is: I have been and continue to be willing to work on this marriage, but not while you are still in a relationship with Mr Virtual. Since your words make it clear you are not interested in fixing our relationship, I won’t bother you any more.

Then NC. No more responding to her questions or accusations. It gets you no where.

We’ve all said this before, until she shows up at your door, hat in hand, apologizing for the destruction she brought to your marriage, your words and actions will not work. She has to be willing. She is not. Maybe the MC will work a miracle. I doubt it.

But she is the opposite of what you need now. Stop letting her goad you into unproductive conversations.

Oh and leave the ring to the lawyer. You can negotiate it’s return.

Well take it from someone who has been there

NC is the way to go

Even if you aren't strong enough to pull the divorce trigger, she needs to think you are strong enough

Your weakness is pushing her further away.

Her counseling is a joke when she is actively involved with another man.

Let her go. Focus on yourself getting stronger and being able to enforce NC.

Yeah, I've been doing IC. It's going as well as it can go. We are just getting into my issues, so progress will be made soon.

Falc, when I was nine, I stood at the top of a very high diving board. Thought I’d be fine. Another kid just couldn’t do it and went back down. I thought, “what a chicken/coward”. Then it was my turn. Now I understood why he couldn’t do it. Looking down, utter fear. The voice inside my nine-year old head was telling me two things. 1. This is insanely high, go back down. 2. Others did it, so I can too. I let #2 prevail and never regretted it. I’ve gone back to this moment in my life several times for many situations I’ve been in.

Maybe instead of being gracious to her, I Need to be gracious to myself. Allow myself the opportunity to heal and move on gracefully.

I think you just found your new mantra. THIS is what you owe yourself. NC will get you there, I promise.

And D always takes time. You can file, or not, but at least have the papers ready.

Moving on gracefully to me means that I don't treat her like shit. I just don't allow myself to be walked over or used.

You can "graciously" file for D and have her served, it would be your gracious way of saying to her: I'm getting out of infidelity, You're free to stay with OM or pursue whomever you want.

I don't see where NC = treating her like shit.

I am not specifically talking about NC. Moreso, I am talking about overall being vindictive or angry towards her.

As for the manhood thing, yes. You are all correct. I am making a mockery of it. Standing up for myself is hard, I don't know why. I'm tip toeing, being scared of pissing her off even more. I am trying to be graceful and stand my ground on how I am acting even in the face of her horrible mistreatment. I hear you all loud and clear, but I find pulling the trigger to be very hard and I don't know why.

To hell with worrying about pissing her off. She's making a mockery of your marriage, and carrying on with someone else. She's not even doing it behind your back. Instead of worrying about whether she gets pissed off or not, you need to get pissed off yourself. There's nothing wrong with being angry that your wife treated your vows like a used piece of toilet paper.

Maybe instead of being gracious to her, I Need to be gracious to myself. Allow myself the opportunity to heal and move on gracefully. Not sure how to do that other than NC and D, which I don't think I am ready to D. I am sorry guys, I have so many feelings tugging me in all directions.

Let it sink in that you're being made to look like a fool. Digest that reality, get angry about it, and the rest will take care of itself.

On one side, I want to go scorched earth, say fuck you you stupid bitch and destroy her. On the other, I want to walk a graceful path and show her who I truly am. That she can treat me like absolute dogshit and I can still find it in myself to be respectful. And then I have feelings in the middle, where I just want to go NC and wait. I feel pulled so much that I am breaking apart.

You need to do the exact opposite of anything your gut is telling you to do. You'll salvage your dignity in the process. Go scorched earth and let the chips fall where they may.