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I'd like to think that both of you still have a chance together. Obviously both have waited too long to take the right steps together. Poly now then either make a clean break or try again together. No in between steps, no more waiting and watching. Get out if each other's lives.

WWTL, I semi came to your wife's defense once, I felt a lot of empathy for her. It was right before the separation. Just one wayward to another.

What gets me is even if she's not posting here, she's reading. She knows how TT is the killer. When she confessed to the bed issue, this is when she should have came out with it all. In fact I would assume had it came out then, all of it, that you would still be in the head space you were not too long ago. Okay and somewhat hopeful.

I can't say what exactly she was thinking in seeing him after dday.. You have read around here long enough to know NC gets broken every day. But it's not even about that. Right?

It's about even more TT! I've gotten my fair share in this last year, it hurts and it sucks. 6 years later leaves me shaking my head. She knew the damage. That's were I am stuck. She knew better.

I am so sorry for your pain WWTL. and I think at this point no one would blame you for throwing in the towel. It's enough to do the strongest in.

Yeah I am sure she is sorry, we all are.

Sisoon, I did ask her many times over the first couple of years if I knew everything. She said I did. That included did you ever meet with him again It might not have been expressed in that if you are lying it is over, but did I really need to do that. Do I need to tell her not to put acid in her eyes? Shouldn't you just know things? Bottom line is she lied to protect her ass and to keep her life intact.

To those who are pushing for me to get a poly, and not let her drive the boat on that, the answer is I'm not sure I even want to get in the boat. Right now I am not insisting on it as I just don't give a shit. If I cared I would find the best one and ask her the hardest questions ever. I just don't care right now. If I get to the point where I do trust me it would happen.

She is trying to engage me and give me questions. The only one I wanted answered was where did my wife go and who is this piece of shit that took her place.

I guess the pride thing is kicking in again.

FL, I cross posted with you. You are right, she reads here and should know better. But I guess reading about doing the right thing, and having the courage to do it are completely different for her. And you are right, when she finally fessed up about the bed was the time to do it. I think she felt she dodged a bullet on the bed as I knew it and though I was pissed I wasn't even as pissed as everyone here told me to be. She didn't want to press her luck as I would have gone nuts about this

I could kind of write the bed off by lumping it in with everything else like the porno sex. Sucked but I could do it. This is worse. I didn't know about it, and she did it AFTER she crushed me on DDay. This was no rush of an affair decision. That bubble had burst

Thissux, thanks for the support. I hope this doesn't happen to you

Even worse is the timing. One of my daughters is supposed to come down this weekend. I am done hiding their mothers crappy behaviors and told her not to come and why. She is insisting on coming. I might just blow dodge and meet some friends a couple of hours away. Sucks not to see her, but better than them working me over and trying to calm me down

I understand why you don't want to submit to a rugsweeping double team from your wife and daughter, but I don't think leaving town for her visit is the right approach either. It seems your W has enrolled your daughters to push you for R, and I think that is a really shitty thing for her to do (hmm, I'm sensing a theme here). I would stay where you are, but make it clear to your D in no uncertain terms that you will not discuss your M, W, or the recent TT(s) with her. You should get to enjoy your time with D without having your arm twisted on a life decision that will be agonizing either way. Stand your ground and let both of them know what is and is not acceptable during this visit. If they can't respect your wishes then it is time for you to make a road trip.

[This message edited by Sanibelredfish at 5:48 PM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

Perhaps her bubble didn't burst like you thought. You would be hard pressed to find a WS that hasn't broken NC after dday. It happens sure, but far and few in between. I am guilty of it too, its just after reading around on SI and getting the advice.. I knew the TT had to end, fessing up to a broken NC was part of it. I think when I got out all the lies, that was when the reality really came down on me.

I know you guys didn't have SI in the beginning. I like to think only the lucky find SI so soon. She didn't know then the importance of TT, but she eventually knew and really that's the kicker. Courage is hard to find when you might lose it all. Fear is a powerful emotion and it holds us back. But really what do we have to lose.. such a shame.

Sounds like this is the deal breaker, and again I am so sorry you are back to the fucked up emotions of dday. My heart breaks for you. You have held on for so long and have been so strong, only to be fed one shit sandwich after another. Your mind and heart deserves peace now.

We know you don't want to be double teamed, but you owe it to yourself to get it out in the open. Right now, you are righteously pissed. Use that.

She may also realize that she has just kissed the reconciliation goodbye.

I'm very sorry to hear this, wwtl. I can only offer that she was likely too afraid to come clean earlier and/or still trying to control the outcome. Doesn't make it better and I'm sure it's not news to you.

When a WS wants R but realizes they likely fucked up too badly for that to be a possibility, the urge to mitigate the damage and control what remains of the outcome is very strong. Again, I'm not defending her---just trying to explain the unexplainable as best I know how.

I'm sorry.

I could kind of write the bed off by lumping it in with everything else like the porno sex. Sucked but I could do it.

Yeah, most men would be able to accept their wives having porn movie sex in their home and in their bed.

But I guess reading about doing the right thing, and having the courage to do it are completely different for her.

Sometime reading here gives the WAYWARD the insight on how to lie and continue to deceive the BETRAYED. Ever considered that?

Even worse is the timing. One of my daughters is supposed to come down this weekend. I am done hiding their mothers crappy behaviors and told her not to come and why. She is insisting on coming.

Your daughter is disrespecting you, just like her mother. Your telling her not to come, and explaining why, should have been enough. Her insisting on coming anyway, tells you she is siding with your Wayward Wife. You should definitely leave and avoid a situation where you will be double teamed.

My advice still has not changed in the least. File for divorce and cut your losses. Stop torturing yourself. You can either move forward with a happy, healthy life. Or you can continue to be mired down in this hell that is your former marriage.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 8:29 PM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

I'm seriously disappointed in some of the responses here.

Advising wwtl to just divorce and cut his losses is a little premature in the heat of his anger and how recent this development is.

I was tt'd for 2 years after DDay. We are 4 1/2 years out. I recently found out (while doing 'The A Tour') a couple months ago, that WH was at OW's apartment 3x as opposed to the 2x he had previously told me.. and that they went out for fast food together when he previously said he went alone. I lost my shit, I was soo angry. But you know what? As I calmed down about it over the next several weeks, I realized that in the grand scheme of the things they did, him stopping by there a 3rd time for 10 minutes on his way to work and going out for fast food with OW, didn't really change anything. Yeah, he lied for no good reason whatsoever, it was stupid of him to minimize, without a doubt. But I'm not going to give up on reconciliation for something that pales in comparison to the other deeds they committed during the A. For me, these things came to light during the A Tour, they weren't actively discussed in recent years. Honesty is a requirement to continue reconciliation, no more setbacks are allowed.

All I'm saying is give yourself a chance to simmer down before you give up on reconciliation. Do the poly and decide from there.

[This message edited by LadyLove at 10:01 PM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

They're separated. Have been for months. He moved across the country. He's been dating other women. He was considering attempting reconciliation again.

My wh TT'd me at two years after dday. I am now six years past dday. If I were to find out he'd been lying to me,after all this time,and the Hell I've been through to heal, and he reset that healing back to day one? I'd be done.

We can only give the best advice possible, from our perspective and experience. Your perspective is different from mine..And that's ok. You post yours,I will post mine. You don't have to agree. WWTL will take what he needs.

I know, I've been following his story.

The things that recently came to light for me hadn't been actively discussed since before the tt ended. They were details recalled during the A Tour.

I agree that if WH was still actively lying to me I'd be done as well.

It was my understanding that this issue was only recently brought up again for wwtl. Hence my sharing my story.

I wasn't singling you out confused, I apologize if I came across that way.

[This message edited by LadyLove at 11:09 PM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

I'm seriously disappointed in some of the responses here.

Advising wwtl to just divorce and cut his losses is a little premature in the heat of his anger and how recent this development is.

This development, even though he just found out, is nearly 6 years old. I would hardly call that recent

I was tt'd for 2 years after DDay. We are 4 1/2 years out. I recently found out (while doing 'The A Tour') a couple months ago, that WH was at OW's apartment 3x as opposed to the 2x he had previously told me.. and that they went out for fast food together when he previously said he went alone.

So, you found out your WAYWARD lied about how many times he went to his AP's apartment by one, and that he bought her a hamburger once he didn't tell you about. OK.

How does that compare to lying about sex in the marital bed, and now finding out they met again after the affair was discovered? NOT THE SAME AT ALL!!! Her lies have kept coming over the past 6 years. Telling him to hang on and wait longer, in my opinion, is just cruel to him.

I might just blow dodge and meet some friends a couple of hours away. Sucks not to see her, but better than them working me over and trying to calm me down

Sounds like great advice you're giving yourself. Have a good time with your friends and forget about your sorrows for awhile. Maybe a little peace of mind away from all the crap may help you see things more clearly.

Sorry you have to deal with this kind of garbage after 6 years.

All I'm saying is to simmer down and do the poly, then decide.

I wasn't comparing, I was only implying that in the grand scheme of things, the other deeds pale.

I'm not minimizing it. Just sharing my opinion like everyone else. Is that OK with you longforgotten?

I guess the pride thing is kicking in again.

Softly, pride or ego?

IMO, a person with low self-esteem, low self confidence, an "a" type, a people pleaser, the life of a party; will naturally become attracted to a mate with high strength, courage, ego, drive, focus, and the ability to make difficult decisions and take control, ie., a mate that can do the dirty work for the marriage. Furthermore, the opposite can be true for eliminating (perceived) conflict in the marriage and breaking the ice with others. This was my marriage. It worked until it didn't work. It worked until we where in direct conflict with each other.

Both of you need to meet in the middle if you are going to reconcile. She needs to muster the courage to tell you the full truth. You need to muster the courage to accept it. The problem is, you have full control. She can't lower your ego, and you are not fostering her confidence.

What she told you recently seems fairly minor compared to what is possible. Based on how you reacted, she won't be telling you more unless you change. In fact, what she recently told you might have been a test to see how you would react before she spilled the beans. At what point will you become thankful for receiving the truth and respect the courage she musters to tell it to you? If you are unable to foster her confidence, she will resort to being the old WW and the both of you will make no progress, no different than the last 6 years.

I'm not saying you always needed to change, but to reconcile you do. You must move towards each others good traits. This follows the natural attraction that brought you together in the first place.

[This message edited by still-living at 1:16 AM, March 23rd (Thursday)]

I think the TT in this case is a bit different to how many times they met 'in the affair' because this was a meeting 'after' the affair - when Mrs WWTL had seen the damage already caused.

It wasn't a 'two separate lives' thing - her 'two' lives had already collided when WWTL found out about the affair. So to me, that makes it different - yet she still went.

If I were WWTL the fear that I wouldn't be able to let go of would be that she went hoping that the AP was going to say "lets make a life together" instead of "Sorry it was a game that went too far" - and there could be no 'simmering down' or consideration of reconciliation possible for me without knowing the answer to that question.

Even if she did hope that - MAYBE there could still be reconciliation if it was admitted to - but I couldn't reconcile while worrying that there was was STILL something she was lying about. I know everyone is different and I'm *only* speaking for myself - same as everyone else is - but for any reconciliation attempt I'd have to know and need that question answered on a poly.

Waitedtoolong,

It still doesn’t feel right for me. IMO it makes no sense even after the clarifications.

I think that when you do something really wrong, even when you don’t know the consequences at the time, you don’t do it again, not even partially. E.g. If you get caught stilling from a shop, and you are not welcome any more, you don’t snick in the shop again even if you are not going to stole again.

As you stressed, there is a lot of things that you haven’t told after DDay but I still think that is against any logic to meet this guy again. Why OM was willing to jeopardize his future job to have a face to face conversation to your wife.

From OMs angle.

I don’t remember very well but in other of your threads you mentioned that you made crystal clear to him that any further contact, even working in the same neighbor, will get him into big trouble, so why jeopardize everything again? If was just an apology, why it has to be made face to face? Was he expecting more? Did he made contact or was your wife?

From your WW angle

She knew after DDay the she was in big trouble, maybe not the consequences, maybe not how bad she wronged you, but she knew she messed up big time. Why get herself in more trouble meeting him? Even suspecting that a PI was tracking her? Why not just by phone? Was she expecting any closure? If it was just sex why closure was needed?

Other questions:

Did she know what you told to OM about further contact? If yes, why did she agree to meet him?

What else did they talk about?

Did they ever talk about you? Is hard to believe that she never thought about you, even when she arranged the meeting with OM, and is harder to believe that she didn’t badmouthed you to him, or, at least, defended you if OM (that he did for sure) badmouthed you or made fun of you.

I am sure she didn’t pretend to leave you for him, but as you asked in other thread, after this I believe she would have keep having side fun for a very long time, even emotionally.

There is much more she is not telling you…

Last couple of things,

If I am not mistaken, further contact from OM part was broke and the consequences are that you will expose to his wife and ruin his job. At this time, Are you going to do something? Maybe is pointless, maybe not. Anyhow if you want to expose to his wife why don’t let your wife do it.

You were living in limbo for 5 years, now you are back to limbo again. I recommend to go one way or other but move out of it.

I am sorry if I am mistake, I really hope I am, but I believe I am not.

Good Luck

She is still in self preservation mode, is point less when your marriage is practically over. I think that while she was thinking that they were still married and doing OK not coming clean about minor things was OK (it is never OK), but once you need to save your marriage and the gift of R is noking at your door, you should burn all bridges to have a fresh new start and have a real R.

IMO she thought that she was I R while WTL was I limbo. Maybe she still believes that have been 6 years of R when just have been like 6 months is false R (can have true R while TT is still in force)

IMO her only chance know is to make a complete timeline, nor just about the affair but also the work she has done, the pain she has endured and her hopes dice Day. Maybe this way she can start to explain, not justify, why she kept the TT for 6 years and make sense of all this mess.

It is very imprinting to explain what happened and why so WTL will be able to understand her mind set and why it won't happen again. While she can not explain her motivations for the meeting after Day, after seeing all she just jeopardized, she won't be R material.

Maybe te whole true is hard to say and she believes that once WTL knows it will be not turning back... Well is she keeps more things hidden to BS imagination is going to full WTL mind with worse things.

WWTL,

Well, I think that most WS do trickle truth or get away with not telling "all". They are just scared to make things worse or decrease their chances of reconciling.

Yes, she knew it wasn't right and yes she did it. But if their moral compass was working well she wouldn't have had an affair in the first place. Most take time to fix it. My WW took over a year. Your WW hid it so that she would have a better chance to keep you. She acted in her self interest and now has hurt you again. It really, really sucks and yes it takes you back a ways.

I would go ahead with the polygraph. It is yet another experience she will go through that underscores affairs are SO NOT FUCKING WORTH IT.

What is in your best interests WWTL? Are you better off with this fWW? Do you think she will ever cheat again? I would say the chance is LESS now with this fWW than with someone else. I feel that way with Edith. ANYONE can cheat on you, unless of course you never have anyone.

You have put her through the ringer lately. Edith confessed to her children a few weeks ago because I had her move into the basement. The confession as well as the days that followed were very painful to witness. It was just something I needed to move forward. You went off and did your thing which was horrible for her to experience. Your children were informed of her selfish and despicable acts. A parent's great desire is to be honored and respected by their children. She has a long way to regain that. Ask a hundred BS's whether they would trade their pain to have the WS's loss of self respect. A thread recently showed almost none would--they would rather have pain and honor.

I'm not about to say your experience compares with her's, but she's fallen really far and hit really hard. You have had quite a bit of atonement from her, which is what I think you really needed.

Do not let pride get in the way of your own self interest. I believe you have regained your self respect and her respect. Don't tell her the questions and go through with the polygraph and get the TT over. It will be another milestone on your road to recovery.