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My wife is being amazing, compassionate and kind. And she is communicating what she needs and what she expects from me.

I have already committed to and am sticking to a life of complete transparency and no deceit.

What I've been failing at the past 8-10 days is this (and my wife articulated this to me less than 30 minutes ago in a phone conversation): I should feel compelled to do nothing that would cause her worry or anxiety or stress, to do nothing that could even remotely be interpreted as impropriety (fidelity-wise, or financially). I should be going out of my way to make sure she feels safe, both with regard to fidelity and financially. She feels that she is putting too much effort into helping me learn how to "be" now, and that I'm not working hard enough. I am trying, but it is an adjustment and I'm making mistakes. She feels that I am just not "getting it". I feel like I do get it, but I'm not doing a great job of changing my behavior.

I said it earlier....you lack fear. Don't worry MCW, that'll come when you put down the retainer for your divorce lawyer. Let's up hope you figure out how badly you've screwed the pooch before it's too late.

[This message edited by sassylee at 8:20 AM, August 11th (Friday)]

Sassy- you couldn't be more right.

I'm just shocked you partied for two nights while taking 2000 and losing 400 and thinking "I'm being good"

Your wife is a saint.

Get over yourself. You shouldn't have to promise to be good. And you definitely should have passed up the ac trip no matter what your wife agreed to.

Still all about you. You're about you. You maybe decided to be good lol for your wife. Wow. Fail and fail big time. You had a ball!! The betrayed sat home. You get it now??

I feel like I do get it, but I'm not doing a great job of changing my behavior.

Take another look at that sentence. You absolutely DO NOT "get it". If you did, your behavior would already be changed. "Getting it" = changed behavior.

You've been "off the grid", drinking, gambling, and socializing, with great wads of cash in your pockets that you didn't even mention you'd taken out of the bank. Why should she believe you haven't been up to any shenanigans? Would YOU believe you if you were in her position? If you do a little mental inventory of all the times you've lied to her in the past, what makes you believable now?. Is it because you say so and this time your really, really mean it?

Here's the problem with having spent years weaving a great, fat tapestry of lies... your words mean zip right now. Only your actions tell the story. And your actions are of a guy who somehow thinks he can keep doing whatever he wants just so long as he's keeps his genitals in his pants. I think you've VASTLY underestimated the damage which has been done. Every action needs to be contemplated through the lens of "does this help build trust with my wife?".

No WS is perfect. But mine changed EVERYTHING about how he approaches his day to day. He checks in with me at every opportunity, puts my needs first, and is FOCUSED like a laser beam on ways in which he can make me a little more happy and a little more confident. And it's not because he wants me to forgive and forget. It's because he actually WANTS to be with me.

That's not to say there haven't been missteps along the way, but the general tenor of his demeanor has changed 100%. I'm his priority. He doesn't leave any room for doubts on that. He understands that the old dynamic is gone forever, but he doesn't seem to miss it because the old dynamic FAILED US. The new dynamic results in emotional intimacy, companionship, sex, and true partnership. It's BETTER. It's not a life lived "in the doghouse" because he's no longer a dog.

Try, before it's too late, to visualize what you hope to achieve. What kind of relationship do you want in your marriage? If it's a return to the status quo... well, how did that work out the first time? You either want this good woman in your life or you don't. And if you do, you need to build that life around her so she knows you mean it.

My 2 cents.

I have been lurking on this board for awhile, following the stories of some posters that tug at my heart strings. This is definitely one of them, but not because of you, MCW, but because of your wife, who I now see is posting in this thread as well-- an action which is probably adding to the surreal feeling she has about this whole experience. (What did you do today, Helen? Oh I did some work, picked up the kids and then responded to a thread started by my husband about his long history of cheating on me, you know, the usual.)

I agree with other posters on this thread. I think you know what remorse is supposed to sound like or how it's supposed to act (in some senses, with the "sorry's" and the carrying on etc.), but you don't really know what it means to have remorse for what you did because I feel, as other posters have said, that you actually don't feel it. At least not for what you did.

You feel a sense of mourning, perhaps, for the life that you once had with your wife in which you were not under close watch or scrutiny. You also probably miss the freedom to seek attention from all sorts of people and to feel gratified by making choices about your finances that make you feel powerful. You probably also miss on some level the challenge of keeping your secret life a secret. I would believe you if you admitted these things, but remorse--really understanding what you have done to your wife and your family? It's just not coming through for me like other posters here have said.

I feel like you're saying the words for the benefit of your wife openly here, but I don't get the sense from the way you construct your posts that you really understand what you did. She said somewhere else on this board something that truly broke my heart and I don't even know the woman : "you've cheated in every way a person can." She's right, you did. With the exception of giving away private videos of you and your wife (which happened to another poster), your wife is right, you cheated in basically all of the ways one can actually be unfaithful. All of them. Some of them for multiple years.

Everything you have said here is in service to your own image of yourself and only as a matter of detail even deals with your wife's pain. You haven't really figured out what it means to actually be faithful even as you come clean. Want an example? As part of your long posts detailing your affair activities, you also shared your wife's Protected Health Information with a message board of strangers regarding genetic testing for cancer markers. You did this without any thought as to whether this was your information to disclose or whether it would put your wife in more potential danger. You could have obfuscated the details in some way to minimize the exposure, but you didn't. Why? Because you were trying to demonstrate for her and everyone else here that you "understand the gravity of the situation" when clearly you don't.

The question you should be asking yourself right now is not "how can I be successful in this reconciliation", it's "how can someone I cheated on in every single way that a person can find a way to trust me again? How would I have to be? How would I need to act?"

Some people get it, some people don't, and some people won't. I think you're a "don't" right now, and there's reason to believe you're a "won't" when all is said and done.

mcw-

Before you throw away your marriage; it is time to stop being the 'life of the party'. At least is in the way that you practice it. Golf outings and partying in AC this close to D-Day? You could have made choices to cancel or to mitigate those events, but you did not plan or prepare for them properly. If you are in R, you have to carry the load and work with your spouse on how to navigate them.

And you were partying. Spending the money. I'm not suggesting you sit in your hotel room and self-flagellate but what message do you think your actions sends to your wife?

I am going to say this as someone who works in a field where there is a lot of social/work events. You can attend these events, have a few drinks(even non-alcoholic drinks) engage in what you have to without staying out all night drinking(/gambling). I actually have no problem with you spending more time in your hotel room than at function. There are choices and boundaries that you do not seem interested in setting or following. You ideas of what 'good' behavior in a marriage are skewed. Those need to change. Behaviors that were acceptable while you were a trusted partner are no longer on the table. Not because BS is your parent or monitor, but because you are not able to act as a safe partner in that environment.

Effective change is going to be a shift in the way that your live your life and socialize. Just because you are not actively searching out infidelity doesn't make your behavior safe for your partner. Your words say that you have empathy but your actions do not. You by your own admission seek attention and validation. Add drinking and the lack of personal accountability(you seem to recognize bad behavior only in the past tense). It is time to limit your access to those situations until you do understand how to manage them. The Old way didn't work and obviously your new approach is not any better.

Something is broken inside me. And somehow this event and its aftermath (the death of her mom) and my escalation of my infidelity have to be related.

I think they are related only in the fact that your wife was distracted, numb and not paying much attention to what you were doing due to grief. You, rather than turning toward your wife and finding a way to comfort her--- used that to seek out additional infidelities and escalate your behavior. Think about that.

I don't think it makes you a monster. I think you are a man who is used to being selfish. That your marriage has functioned with that behavior. Getting your way in this marriage has been fairly easy and if you hit any push back you have a history of bulldozing through that by lying and hiding(gun purchase). You seem interested in changing that dynamic. It isn't a one time-- I will neVer do that again choice. It is 1000 little choices you face every day. You need to start seeing that pronto

Change is possible. The question is ----are you willing to put the work in and change some patterns of behavior that are harmful to your marriage but feed your ego/needs. Only you can decide.

Let me also just say this, since how someone in your wife's position might feel continues to weigh heavily on my mind today:

I think even if you make the necessary changes, you're looking at a situation in which your wife has no reason connected to you, specifically, to actually stay. I might be wrong, but if she could ensure the financial and emotional well being of her kids without needing you, you've given her all the reasons in the world to not stay with you.

There is such a thing as going too far. You can do and say things in relationships that alter them forever and damage them forever. You've done nearly all of the "do's" in that realm outside of drug use and physical violence (thank god). Re-read that sentence and then ask yourself if you really think it's possible for someone to reconcile with you to the point that the marriage is actually "better" than before--because that's what I think you think is going to happen.

Your posts seem to suggest that you think it's entirely possible if not probable that you can restore the trust your wife once had in you to a point that your marriage actually becomes "better than before" and I think you think this is possible because of some of the success stories of other posters on this board. Reconciliation is unique to the couple involved, and everyone has their different limits, but you have to also consider that many of the people who felt that their marriages were actually "better" after reconciliation actually didn't have some of the betrayals in the marriage that you have perpetrated.

I think you think that this situation is going to blow over in some respects, that time will heal wounds and stuff, but I think other posters will tell you that time does lessen some pain, but it can also transform wounds in ways you would never have been able to foresee.

Some of the memories she may have of the experience may be all too surreal to be triggerable on a daily basis, like the memory of her child catching you in your infidelity (from what I read in another post). Other memories of this series of events are smaller, but could be the source of daily triggers, like the memory of having to register for this forum to get advice on your infidelity, getting tested for STD's, memories of moments in her life like hiking in Iceland (which sounded so cool, btw) that now have a shadow on them because of what you were doing concurrent with those events. Photographs of you together will conjure all kinds of questions like "was he present with me then, or thinking of someone else?" Those memories might smack her in the face daily. And that's the stuff you don't even understand.

My intuition about this sad situation is that your wonderful wife, who has already shown a great deal of strength, will call upon this admirable strength to stay to ensure the well-being of her children first and foremost. She will continue to sacrifice herself to give those kids the home she wants them to have and the home that they deserve and she will deal with you however she can. That "dealing with you" that she does may transform over time to be in a place that may resemble some kind of loving romantic-ish relationship. She's a far stronger woman than me, I can tell you that.

I apologize in some ways, to your wife, who if she reads this may feel like I'm beating up on you. I'm not meaning to. I just think you have zero understanding of what you have done here and I don't know that you actually have the capacity to really face it and care about it from what I gather of your posts and the composite of what I can put together from what your wife has said as well. Stop looking for a silver lining and start looking at your behavior.

[This message edited by Bishybish at 1:48 PM, August 11th (Friday)]

You haven't responded in 2 days. What have you done in your time away from this thread to be a safe partner? What have you done to demonstrate remorse to your wife? What have you been reading? What actions can you document that would count towards fixing this mess you've made of your family?

I haven't posted on this thread in a few days because I was so upset by your post the other day, sassylee. It felt mean-spirited and non-constructive to me. I've come here to earnestly find a support network and I struggled to see how posts like that were helpful

What have I done in the past few days to be a safe partner?

1) I have stayed away from any activity that might have a whiff of impropriety

2) I have been hyper aware of the things I am doing and how my wife would regard them, especially since my f_ckups last week. I have been very communicative with my wife, informing her where I am and who Im with and when I'll be home, and checking in to see how she's doing

3) I have been doing the little things around the house which make her happy and have left her love notes almost every day

3) I have been going to the therapist twice a week to try to figure out why I did all this

4) I have gone on a major campaign to sell material stuff and to curtail expenses to reimburse my family for money spent during my extramarital activities

5) have read the book you have all recommended and I am really trying to be that way....

....but I am FAILING.

I just caught up on what everyone has written over the past day or so and I literally started quivering and felt nauseous. Folks, i am so committed to rebuilding my marriage and to being the man my wife deserves. I am trying to do all the right things. And be the right way. And say all the right things. But I am failing.

I have definitely been approaching this process as a punch list:

**full disclosure CHECK

**completely sever ties with OPs CHECK

** full transparency CHECK

** read the book CHECK

** therapist CHECK

**be kind and patient CHECK

**communicate CHECK

**make a plan and start selling shit to get to the agreed payback amount CHECK

I was resistant to selling my electronic drum set, which I really do cherish, as part of the plan. Because I found a way to hit the number without having to. But then I realized that's not the point. The point is to sacrifice and subordinate my wants to my wife's needs and the family's interests. So I listed the drums on Craigslist for sale.

Then yesterday I was thinking that when I do sell the drum set, the kids, especially the boys, will wonder why. "Because I wanted to" seemed unbelievable. "Because mom made me" is clearly not the right answer (and also not the truth). So I ponder out loud (via text) to my wife: "I need to think of some plausible explanations for the kids about why I'm selling the drums; explanations that do not make you [my wife] look like the bad guy." In my mind I was thinking: the boys are going to ask me if mom made me sell them. I thought I was doing a good thing by thinking ahead.

To be clear: I do not think she is the bad guy. She has done nothing wrong. I am selling the drums without resentment. But my word choice was horrific. My wife hit the roof, didn't respond to texts or phone calls the rest of the day and night, came home late and slept in the guest bedroom and has been ice cold since. Says she's done. That I don't "get it".

And in my mind I'm like "I DO get it! I really am trying! Very hard!"

And I've read all the posts above from the past 24 hours. Clearly there is consensus: I don't get it. I'm struggling. I'm really struggling. I want to get it. I really do.

I think in summary it is like this:

1) it's great that I stopped deceit, betrayal. But that's barely table stakes.

2) it's great that I'm In therapy and reading books and posting and seeking to figure out why the hell I did all this so I can make sure I never do it again.

3) but that's not enough. I need to stop being selfish. And have real humility. Most of what I've been doing lately in my actual behavior and action has been for the APPEARANCE of not being selfish. But what is needed is to ACTUALLY not be selfish. Which is clearly a microcosm of the whole situation.

So here I go again saying all the right words. I mean them. I do. But now I need to be them. I'm going to do that. I'm going to be the man she deserves and the father my kids deserve.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 7:27 PM, August 11th (Friday)]

Tell the kids the truth. In an age appropriate manner.

The youngest can be told daddy used family money on things that weren't important,and it's now important for you to pay the money back.

The oldest two can be told the truth. If i remember correctly, one of your kids discovered the affair, and your wife didn't know what to do in that moment, and she lied for you. So you need to fix that. With your wife. Tell him that daddy broke a very important promise to Mommy, and she was caught off guard,and didn't know how to handle the situation correctly when he came to her, and she was trying to protect him. But lies don't protect anyone, because the truth always comes out. Kids aren't stupid. He knows. He may be pretending otherwise, because he's not sure how to react, but he knows. And,if he hadn't figured it out yet,as he gets older, he will. It's important that he knows he can trust his parents to be honest with him.

The oldest is old enough to know the truth. That you hurt your wife terribly,and you are working hard to be the man she deserves.

And an apology is in order. To your children. At least, the oldest two. You betrayed them just as much as you betrayed your wife.

Have you offered to take a polygraph?

If one reply from a stranger on an online forum, is enough to make you avoid the wisdom on this site...advice that will help you save your marriage..then I wonder if you're reconciliation material. Reconciliation is hard. It's painful. And the heavy lifting must be done by the WS for the first several months. Your wife has yet to hit the really angry stage. I hope you stop being so defensive by then, or the marriage you want to save will be screwed. And you are very defensive. When she tells you that you don't get it..you're response,whether you say it out loud or not..is to insist you do get it,and you're really trying very hard. That's defensive. Instead, listen to her. She's absolutely right, you don't get it. And you insist you're trying so hard, but getting drunk, partying, and gambling with male and female co-workers isn't trying. Not even a little bit.

You are still very much about you..not her. That's what you need to work on. You need to put her first. Before yourself. Before anyone.

I think you have a chance here. But you have to start listening. To your wife. And to the people here. Even those you think are being harsh. Actually, the posts that upset you,are the ones you really need to pay attention to. They upset you because you know they're right. And it's hard to shine a light on the ugly inside of you. But, until you do, you're still wayward. Just not cheating isn't nearly enough to stop the wayward mentality.

I get that you are "new" to this whole process, and you've only JUST staring to look at how "feel goods" ruin your life (in lieu of real self validation).

But

You don't get applause for doing what you should have been doing all along. Your target is MORE then normal, not normal.

I know that the hardest things to see are those things IN ourselves. It's like that for EVERYONE unless you chose to be self aware and really work at it. It's a thing.

Your reluctance to sell the drum set (and the casino behavior) are two perfect examples. Honestly what you have is your drum set on one side of the scales and your marriage on the other. I realize you don't see it that way, but that is reality. You need to go so far above normal to reconcile.

Why?

Because you had faith, trust, etc invested in you and you abused it. It doesn't exist anymore. You have first remove all the wreckage (which your BS has provided you a road map on how to do that). Then you need to level the ground (getting "normal") and THEN you need to lay a foundation, one brick at a time (going above and beyond).

Yes your wife loves you, but that doesn't mean that all is forgiven, it means you have been given a gift.

Don't pin your inability to actually face the cold hard truth on SassyLee. There was nothing destructive about what she said (your wife even agreed in this thread); you just don't have the balls to actually deal with who you are. You have second thoughts about selling a fucking drum set? A DRUM SET? OH OK. This is the mother of your children.

Wow, mcw....what a mess this is.

I'm going to give you my thoughts as a long-time BS. I've been around this "oops, I did it again" circuit more times than I wish to remember. We are no longer together after 12 years. I was a saint too.

It's likely that what I'm going to say is not going to register with you. I have no doubt you will hear me...but I'm not sure you will hear me. But to give this the best chance possible I want you to take a moment, close your eyes, calm your thoughts and say, "TSMF is not judging me. She only wishes to help me better understand." As goofy as that sounds I sincerely want you to take that moment and calm your wild ego and meet up in the sanctity of that inner place that holds the real you.

There? Can you hear me without a reaction? Can you hear me without fear taking over? What about shame? Can you close the door to them...not allow them to be part of this conversation?

What about the bad guy that did all these things to his saintly wife? Is he here - because if so, he needs to leave also. He's not your friend right now.

What about the alter ego of the bad guy...the guy that wants to do every checklist item right and be assured he will be able to save the marriage - is he here? He needs to leave too. While his efforts seem noble, he has an ulterior and selfish motive.

I want to speak to the soul that is in charge of this circus...but that has been allowing these alter egos to run wild. You can know him because he understands this is under his charge...but he's also the one that feels like he has absolutely no control. He's the one that has absolutely no plan. No idea what happened or why...no idea what to do going forward.

Here is what I want him to know: Before you white knuckle the wild man and before you buy into the plan of the savior man, you must first allow yourself to FEEL all parts of what has transpired. For the guy that self-harmed, self destructed...for the guy that is terrified that he will lose his marriage if he doesn't perfectly devise a plan...and not the least of which, for the woman who loves you and has been caught in the midst of this terrible asylum take-over.

FEEL THIS - as if you were blindfolded and having to taste and identify foods...where you let yourself sit in your experience while you search your memories to recall them, remember them, experience it again from your past but in a way that gives meaning to the present.

It is the feeling part of this you are missing. You want to intellectualize this and be able to by-pass this most messy part of it. But you see...it's the inability to get in touch with the FEELING that is the creator of all this. It is what has been removed or numbed to the point that there is now nothing but internal chaos. And you cannot use the same approach that got you into this to then get you out of it.

Does any of this make any sense? You can know when you are there because what comes up - though painful - will rise above your feelings of shame and fear. When carried out fully and to authenticity there is a strange comfort in pain. You will intuitively recognize it as your friend. It leaves in it's cleansing wake nothing but pure love. Big love.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 9:52 PM, August 11th (Friday)]

Here's the thing MCW. You profess you're willing to do anything to fix this - unless it's something you don't want to do. You're like the boy who offers to give up brussel sprouts for lent. You'll do anything - unless it means you can't have fun at the conference. You'll do anything unless it means you have to give up those cool drums you like.

Humble is a word that's been used with your wife. You have not been humbled. If you felt empathy for the visceration of your wife - you would not have been able to have fun with your coworkers. You'd rather vomit then touch the drum set you know your wife now associates with your waywardness and the affair.

I'm curious MCW - what is it I said - specifically - that hurt you? I suspect you knew I was right - you couldn't argue my points and you were filled with shame. And instead of coming back and saying - damn sassy - you're right. I've been a shit...you run and hide to lick your wounds...telling yourself how mean and unkind that nasty BS Sassy is. My last post that pulled you back? I wrote it hoping to bait you into coming back.

Remember MCW - I am a BS. I won't profess to knowing exactly how your Bs feels - but I'd bet I'm damned close. What I see - she sees. And what she sees is all that matters right now. You can believe yourself to be the most remorseful of all WS's but if you're wife thinks you're failing - then you're failing.

My husband let go of all his pride when he realized it was all on the line...he took a deep breath with a lie or justification on his lips - and then sighed. His shoulders slumped - and he just let go - he let go of all the mechanisms that were protecting him and his self image. I remember seeing that - and that when I knew I could offer R.

You are still protecting you. Protecting what you enjoy, what you like to do and especially your self image. When your wife asked you to sell the drums - your immediate answer should have been - of course. And when you thought "the boys will wonder if mom is making me do it" you should have thought - well I'm an intelligent grown ass man - I'll tell them any number of plausible reasons that point to my ownership of the issue - I don't need them, I'd rather put the money away for college, I should never have bought them, I was foolish, or like others suggested - I haven't been a good husband and a good husband would have thought of his family before making the choices I have in the past.

You have not been a good husband and father. My posts to you have held up a mirror and you do not like the reflection you see. But you must see - it is the start of authenticity. Humble yourself and learn to trust your wife. She is telling you what you need to do. Stop fighting it.

Thank you smokenfire, ChamomileTea, BishyBish, redrock, trustsetmefree, and sassylee.

I woke up this morning, the second night my wife has slept in the guest room, and read your posts.

Trustsetmefree: I did what you said. I closed my eyes and thought and tried hard to feel the badness of what I've done, and failed to do. The words that emerged were: "she means everything to me." But the things I've done are not congruent with that. I wept, alone, sitting here in my bathroom. AND EVEN IN THAT MOMENT, the thought came to me: "maybe she'll hear me from the next room and come and console me and tell me it will all be fine." That's when I REALLY wept. Because I automatically went to a selfish thought of seeking comfort and validation. WTF is wrong with me.

So then I thought: what can I do right now for my wife that selfless and is all for her. I guess that's the right way to be, but I don't have an answer.

My motives around all this couldn't be more pure, as hard as that is to believe, and my words are sincere. But when she and you folks break it down for me, it's clear my actions and behavior don't align. And it is no longer okay for me to "get that" in retrospect. I have to get that in the moment, and choose differently. And maybe most importantly, and hardest, not because I'm a computer dutifully following an algorithm, but because I want to.

Yesterday was our anniversary. I almost always get her flowers on our anniversary, so I did. I thought it was something nice and not selfish. But she was furious. That shook me and I thought "wow. I really do not get this".

This is hard. I'm fucked up in a lot of ways I never saw. She told me last night that I was selfish and immature in many ways and have been for a long time, but we had gotten to a point where she tolerated it and it was "ok". Now with the betrayal and the shattered trust, it's not at all "ok" and she doesn't want that. Im paraphrasing, but these were her words.

I haven't been a good husband or father...at least not for s long time.

She also said the chances of us getting through this are slim. Infinitesimal was the word she used. F_ck that. I don't believe it. I'm going to change (change back?) and be the man she deserves and the man I believe I fundamentally am.

I'm not going to pretend that I had a magic epiphany this morning and **poof** now I "get it". But I'm starting to get it. If I start by living every moment, decision, action, and word spoken or written with the principle "she means everything to me", then thats a good start.

I am not a monster. I will do this, and I will do it first for her, then for the children, and lastly for me.

And PLEASE don't read this and think "there he goes again saying the right thing, playing the part, and seeking pats on the back." Wrong.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 7:11 AM, August 12th (Saturday)]

mcw - stop doing it for her. Just stop. You are overburdening her unnecessarily. I'm going to give you a 2x4 that I experienced with my WS that almost kicked him to the curb.

My WS's every move, every mood, every action was based on whether or not I was ok. If I was sad he was sad and so on. It got to the point where I could not stand to be with him and would stay at work late or go out after so I could have minimal time with him. Why? Because he was banking his happiness on me, on my mood. He was in essence asking me to make him feel better. How horrible is that? I could barely make it through my day and now I have to make him feel okay for the shit he brought on me, on my family?

You are doing the same thing. Stop it and stop it now. You might not be doing it on purpose but you are putting way too much on your BS to handle. She does not have to make you feel better. And every little action you take is not an action to make her turn around and say it is okay. Period. Your actions should be to do the right thing and many of them should be what you should do anyway, in a marriage and a partnership. Does she get kudos for every second she lets you stay in the house? Do you give that to her? Do you appreciate the insurmountable effort she is making to just wake up and help the family be okay? Or are you just thinking of you? Of what you can do so she'll tell you it is okay.

It is absolutely not okay. You have put her in a no win position. All she is doing right now is biding her time to get to a place where she can think straight. She knows she is swirling in horrible emotions and she is hesitant to do anything rash right now. But keep pushing her and she will. Believe me. If she feels like she has to keep up a facade for herself, the kids and then carry you she won't. She will drop you like a hot potato because it will allow her to breath again.

Make her home a place she can be and unload, be safe, be unharmed. If she holds you up too it is simply too much to handle.

Get it together - I know you want to but I also know the wayward mind. Her needs count and my question to you is how are you filling them? Have you even asked her what her needs are right now? Do you know? Or are you more worried about whether or not you have a safe place to live because that is something that wasn't on your mind as you committed the crime.

You are thinking of you and only you but have convinced yourself you are thinking of her. Listen to the sage advice here and from both the BS and WS sides. You will learn from them and it will help you. I say this because I see in you what I saw in my WS. You want to change, to fix, to make it better but your thinking is skewed because you are scared. Let that fear guide you differently this time. Think about how scared your BS is right now. Think about how she thought she had the one person in the world that would keep her safe and that person has harmed her irreparably. Help her don't hurt her more.

The response to "the chances are slim" is not, even just to yourself, "fuck that". The response is "I hear you. And I'm working to understand why the chances are slim." You think you can turn this around on your determination alone. You can't. You already made your decision. Now she has to make hers.

My XWH could have written your story 35 years ago and I am very much like your BS. I became the nurturing caretaker who helped him get rid of his demons.

In our case, alcohol was the culprit. If you drink (or do drugs of any kind, including RX), a psychiatrist would be key to sorting out any chemical dependency and corresponding behavior.

I won't go into why our story didn't have a happy ending cuz I'm still processing it although I'm getting close to figuring it out. But I do want to share one more very important thing with you: the problem is not and never was your marriage or your wife or your career or the neighbors or the weather. The problem is hole within yourself that you're trying to fill.

Did making the illicit purchases fill the hole? No, of course not. Did the sex outside your marriage fill the hole? Of course not.

Your job is to figure out where that hole is and how to fix it. And not to sound preachy but you can't do it on your own. You've been subconsciously trying but you need a psychiatrist. Not a counselor, not a psychologist, not a priest, not a rabbi, not a best friend and not another woman.

Good luck to you. I think you've got what it takes to get through this.

Trustsetmefree: I did what you said. I closed my eyes and thought and tried hard to feel the badness of what I've done, and failed to do. The words that emerged were: "she means everything to me." But the things I've done are not congruent with that. I wept, alone, sitting here in my bathroom. AND EVEN IN THAT MOMENT, the thought came to me: "maybe she'll hear me from the next room and come and console me and tell me it will all be fine." That's when I REALLY wept. Because I automatically went to a selfish thought of seeking comfort and validation. WTF is wrong with me.

Good job, mcw...I sincerely believe you are trying - even when you feel you are failing. And really good job on recognizing how the feelings shifted to your own...to wanting a rescue. That's a completely normal response when we are new to processing feelings...and it's a logical response if our childhood experiences taught us no one comes to our rescue to look for escapes in other places/people. Today on your bathroom floor you looked for/wanted your wife to be your rescue/escape - instead of another woman. That's progress toward restoring fidelity in a relationship...but you've still got a way to go toward restoring yourself.

There is a problem when we look to others to be that "knight" for us: They let us down every single time. And if we are relying on someone else then we have to find a stand-in for them during those times - booze, gambling, women. The ultimate problem is that NO ONE can fill that hole - not long term. And even the ones that have yet to let you down - after a while they still become unsatisfying. Like the junkie that just has to keep upping the amount to get the high. Your behavior starting to make some sense?

Only you can feel this hole. That's how we are designed. It's a role that we are often not taught as a child...and much of our societal conditioning actually leads us AWAY from our inner connectedness. We actually learn to seek the approval and affirmation of others over our own self. So this is something you are both going to have to learn to re-direct (off of others/things, off of your wife now) and learn to do for yourself. Not because it's what you have to do to save your marriage - but because it's what you have to do to save yourself.

You need to get into intensive counseling. I imagine you have some pretty big childhood wounds - they may be so buried that you don't even consciously remember them. You cannot "redeem" yourself with yourself without showing up in these wounds...which means you have to actually feel them - again (but now from the adult perspective). It is in the wound where the two aspects of *you* can meet...it's where you have to meet....but it requires a willingness to go into that deeper feeling...the place where you cannot escape by focusing on someone or something else. It's where you finally accept that "mommy" isn't coming (as in your experience on the bathroom floor) and you decide to show up for you instead. Its not easy work.

Personally, I think you need a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist.

You might also consider working a spiritual program. Although I am not a big proponent of organized religion, if you believe in a Higher Power then that God can be the "stand-in" or rescue for the part of you - basically, the one that comes to the meeting.. I happen to believe that we are one with our Higher Power, inseparable so trying to decide who shows up is really semantics. But initially it helped me to have that outside entity perspective because I was too wounded to just trust myself (or that God even existed within me).