SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"is this really a deal breaker for you to acknowledge the reality of the female life cycle?"

The issue is the what the sex was like pre-A and the fact that she was able to unfurl a horny flag for OM.

Like another poster said, if those were not the circumstances then I would have really an appreciation and positive for my WW as she entered this phase.

And you know, I'm allowed to have my feelings too.

Today we were just sitting around her parents big house. Pretty boring but pleasant and relaxing. I wanted to text her, "hey I'm bored let's sneak off and fuck". Really i wanted her to think of it and text me that. I want something i do not have.

You can read all the books you want, have her read them, buy flowers, cards, etc, etc, etc.

I've not seen many of these situations change.

You either accept what you have and live with it or find an alternative.

Life is short, make a decision and go with it.

Red, maybe her hormones were going through the roof at that time. My sister had her son in her mid 40 s. She felt her desire was out of control then and she was influenced by it like at no other time in her life. She calls it the crazy years. Now at 50 she feels completely different.

Not to excuse it but it could have been the reality.

Some of you are in the she better fake it or I'm outta here! You have the right to sex but don't force someone to pretend! If you don't care if your wife has to fake her feelings for you just split up already. No woman wants or respects a man who just wants to use her. That's sure to kill any remaining feelings she had for you and poison what's left of the M.

You love her or you don't. If you want her to force herself to pretend, that's not love. I know women who are in agony inside doing just this to keep their families together. It's awful and I wish they could escape it.

" sex is so great, why would anyone say no...I mean it's the best thing ever in life..." obviously they don't think so. If it was so great for them why would they have to force themselves to do it or give up everything else in life that they treasure? No one hurries to do anything that gives little pleasure. Being forced to do something builds resentment.

I hope you can work this out with your lady. She loves you, is happy in life. Maybe you can learn together to find this lost feelings. I don't want her to secretly hate your time together while she's pretending out of fear of your going away. Again, I know women in just this situation and it's killing them. I feel for the men too, I know you want authentic passion. Tough situation.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 7:30 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

Rideitout said

But I do know that this is more common than not in my circle of friends, and I think; given the general articles and comedic routines around this, it's more common than not in married relationships.

Yep.

This is a part of most marriages I know of, and I have many close friends of both sexes where we talk about this.

Let me know what the solution is.

Tell her to get 'into gear' or 'get gone'.

Her insensitivity and reluctance speak volumes--menopause be damn.

redhorse,you are running into the male/female split I have found here. You have the female version, and this ONLY applies to the WW's here the men are NOT given this consideration, of "oh she can't be forced to do ANYTHING of a sexual nature, she's too delicate". The male version is more of a "she gives you what you need or GTFO.

Even the BW's will give a WW a pass on declining to do what you need to help YOU heal if it is ANYTHING of a sexual nature NO MATTER WHAT she did for him. We are supposed to "suck it up" and NOT ask for those things.

JMO YMMV

The male version is more of a "she gives you what you need or GTFO.

Actually, what I’ve noticed is what redhorse made clear in this thread, and also what my H has said: they want the impossible. It isn’t that the wife doesn’t want to give up the sex; redhorse has said his wife is “happy to oblige.” I am too, with my own H. But I’ve noticed that for many men, happy to oblige isn’t good enough. As redhorse said, he wants the passion—he wants her to just want to run off and fuck; to not be able to contain herself for him. My H wants this too.

The problem is, it doesn’t always work both ways, especially if there’s a physical problem. Ok, so the H wants sex—or more sex—or specific sex—or whatever. Ok, the W has the ____ whatever kind of/amount of sex. But wait, that’s not good enough EITHER, because it’s not horny enough/passionate enough/spontaneous enough/coming naturally enough.

If my H waited until all those conditions were right, we would legit be dead before we had sex again.

Sometimes it’s not possible to have both. Pick one.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:25 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

" sex is so great, why would anyone say no...I mean it's the best thing ever in life..." obviously they don't think so. If it was so great for them why would they have to force themselves to do it or give up everything else in life that they treasure? No one hurries to do anything that gives little pleasure. Being forced to do something builds resentment.

You hit on the root of the problem.

"obviously they don't think so" WITH YOU. With the OM, they risked everything, were willing to "give up everything in life" to have the oh so sweet affair sex. And that's the gulf that I think a lot of BS's just can't jump over.

Look, you (not personally, in general) are low drive. I get that, I married you anyway with an understanding of what it meant. And was ready to live my life that way; yes, it would always bother me, and always be something that I hurt about, but I love you, and could "deal with it".

Except you weren't low drive. You were low drive with me, hypersexual with OM. So, WTF, something ain't right here, and guess what; you cheated, I'm not giving up something that's so important to me anymore when you happily gave it to someone else. So, yeah, get over whatever it was that made you low drive with me, or, alternately, go find someone else who tickles you fancy and makes you high drive again.

Sadly, from the massive thread we had about this exact topic last month, for many of us (mostly, but not only BH's), it's as simple as that. I gave up a huge part of myself (my sexuality) to stay in this relationship and, now I realize, it was all a farce; I didn't need to give up anything, because it wasn't a "sex drive" problem, it was a "sex drive for husband" problem. The first, I can deal with (and did, for a very long time). The second? Nope, not gonna happen; even if I wanted to, I couldn't; because it's obviously about me, not her, as the A clearly showed.

Pure heart kit- when you say no woman respects a man who wants to use her.. explain why APs get WWs to open up in ways she never used to... look obviously my point isn’t going to defend redhorses wife’s feelings or cares... because to me they aren’t what I’m addressing. I’m addressing his needs and feelings of unfairness and humiliation.. which for whatever reason she had, and you may be right , they were temporary, still devastated him. Should he just Accept that another man got to have more sexual fun with his own wife than he did? Please... I’d tell him to run for the hills.. or better yet a younger prettier woman than his wife and have some fun. But if he wants to stay in this marriage, and as importantly, if she does, this is on HER to figure out, for his benefit, and we all know why.. because he got screwed over here and shouldn’t just take it. Your reasons for her actions may be valid, but they don’t undo the damage done to redhorse, and he deserves better. That’s her job

You can’t really defend his wife here... if she doesn’t truly find red horse attractive enough to be as sexual with him as her AP, then she doesn’t deserve all the other benefits being married to him might afford. Bottom line is redhorse deserves better, someway, some how.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 8:33 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

But wait, that’s not good enough EITHER, because it’s not horny enough/passionate enough/spontaneous enough/coming naturally enough.

If my H waited until all those conditions were right, we would legit be dead before we had sex again.

But what was it like for the AP? I'm guessing horny, passionate, spontaneous and coming naturally. I'm not speaking for your H, but this is how I imagine my W's A; and this is the bar that's been set by how she treated and interacted with the OM. I suspect this is at the root of your H's problem, because it's sounds very much like mine.

Both my great sex life with my H and my affair were before my MS diagnosis. It ain’t coming back—for ANY man. My H remarried me knowing what MS caused in me—at least he *said* he did—but now he internalizes it; thinks it’s due to lack of attraction to him. There are only a finite number of ways I can explain it to him; I can’t and won’t take responsibility for his lack of either understanding or of belief in physiology.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:36 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

It is very simple. Impossibly difficult, but simple.

it wasn't a "sex drive" problem, it was a "sex drive for husband" problem

If it helps, I would bet my mortgage that if she had ended up in a stable relationship with OM, after 5 years her behavior and drive would be exactly the same with him as with you. (No sex drive for husband #2).

It's not you, it's not him, it's her reaction to circumstance and relationship lifetime and stability. And there are millions of women (and probably men) out there exactly like her.

I'm betting that it only helps a little bit, though. It's how I felt when I was in your shoes.

[This message edited by antlered at 8:47 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

Darkness Falls - yep you get it. Thanks for being on this thread.

To your observation

"wants her to just want to run off and fuck; to not be able to contain herself for him."

^yes, confirmed. It wouldn't be a big issue except that i perceive she was not able to contain herself for OM. I guess cheating would be a matter of not containing oneself by definition.

Thank you to the men here who rightfully point out that men are different than women and how thr sex affects differently.

"It's not you, it's not him, it's her reaction to circumstance and relationship lifetime and stability. And there are millions of women (and probably men) out there exactly like her."

^^^i know that rationally. But like i said above i have feelings too.

[This message edited by redhorse at 9:19 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

You’re welcome. Believe me, I wish I had the answers.

Oh I get how you feel, the last line in my post alludes to this.

Feeling second best? Like the best items served at the restaurant were given free to VIP and are not to be found on the full-price menu you were given? Feeling bad that you feel so irrationally self-pitying about it? Feelings are what drive us even if they are irrational and motivate us to do unproductive things. I'm sure your WW has her own feelings on this issue...

nicenomore had a really great post on the first page of this thread. Why not communicate your feelings to her? And getting some counseling for yourself? And be ready to leave if neither the situation nor your feelings change.

Speaking for myself, being alone with no sex is better than feeling second best, every day.

[This message edited by antlered at 9:14 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

If it helps, I would bet my mortgage that if she had ended up in a stable relationship with OM, after 5 years her behavior and drive would be exactly the same with him as with you. (No sex drive for husband #2).

It's not you, it's not him, it's her reaction to circumstance and relationship lifetime and stability. And there are millions of women (and probably men) out there exactly like her.

I'm betting that it only helps a little bit, though. It's how I felt when I was in your shoes.

I have absolutely no doubt your right (intellectually), but, as you said, it still feels like a swift kick in the n**ts.

And here's the thing; what's the solution? Leave, find another women who's wild/great in bed, and then wind up right where I am 5 years from now? No, I won't have the pain of having things denied me (ever again; with WW or anyone else, should I leave; I'm never playing this "I don't enjoy sex" game again; if you don't, great, your life is so much simpler, because I'm not going to be in it), but, the simple fact is, I'm very likely the wind up in the same sexual situation. Because it's very common, I don't know a single man in my circle of friends who doesn't have this complaint. In many ways, it's just the way it is.

The total mind-f**k? The best way to get that uninhibited/wild/crazy sex, at my age? I'd bet, dollars to doughnuts, it's by finding a married woman and sleeping with her. No, I'm not going to do that, but the forbidden nature of the A just seems to bring out the "best" in women sexually. Makes me want to vomit and cry at the same time, but it's just so common in the stories, it's darn near a certainty that you're gonna get some mind blowing sex in an A; stuff you probably can't get in a "real" relationship. Because, like you said, and I agree, had the OM entered a "real relationship" with my W, he'd be right where I was. Only be being her AP did he get the wild/crazy side. How sick is that?

Nice, I don't think they respect them, I think they are cuckoo in the head and don't realize they are just getting sex, the other stuff is all fake.

If she really liked that sex with AP and thought it was the best ever and misses it, maybe she could learn to have that same thing with Red. I am thinking maybe it wasn't so great. Can't see how someone who really loves sex is meh about it unless their partner disappoints somehow.

Visiting at my parents wouldn't conjure up sexy thoughts for me. Maybe sitting around a campfire in the woods. Everyday life isn't very sexy.

I do feel for you guys. This stuff hurts.

^^^^ I agree 100% with your assessment Rideitout.

Like DF said above, I wish I had the answers....

[This message edited by antlered at 9:17 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]

That's sure to kill any remaining feelings she had for you

If her wild, animal sex A didn't kill her BH's feelings for her....if he sucked it up and gave her the gift of R, then shouldn't return the favor to him by sucking it up herself and having good sex with him?

and then wind up right where I am 5 years from now?

^^^Funny thing, I was downtown a couple of weeks ago with 3 good friends of the same age. They have marriages on the rocks - at least one with some type of WW infidelity, one is in a 18 month cold war, the other is married to someone who had a ONS once with a woman and is occasionally like bipolar or something. We were saying that while we were not afraid of divorce, we also observed the lack of appeal of ending up with one of our other wives. The whole inheriting someone else's problem theory....which can be translated as we all have problems and you can't get away from them.

And to another poster, yes maybe it is a desire for A type sex. I've talked with my WW about wanting to be with someone else based on the M history (older post).

[This message edited by redhorse at 9:29 PM, April 1st (Sunday)]