SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you for that, and I’m sure red horse would agree.

As would I.

On the subject of your slight TJ- I’d caution you not to imagine that all men are disrespectful predators, devoid of morality. I’d say most men are opportunistically driven, with sex being a core driver of our actions, far more of a driver than it is for women. But being knowledgeable about the opposite gender is not a bad thing. I have learned a lot about how women think and see things that I never would have had I not come here. It has been useful.

Incredibly useful. I've been in a lot of arguments on this board because, frankly, I'm hard headed and still have trouble understanding the female motivation for an A. But the 100's of posters who've tried to get it through my head have been successful, and I now, at least at times, can see the other side of the story. The way women see sex, A's, and love in general is very, very different than the way men do. I often drop in (much to everyone's ire, I'm sure) on some WW threads to drop a bomb; the fact that he was having sex with you does not, in any way, imply he liked/respected/loved you. And it's just not the same for many women; they equate the two, and for a lot of men, particularly men who pursue an A, that's simply not the case. Women would die if they could spend an hour in my head (and probably the same could be said in reverse); but the sexual motivation I feel, it's simply beyond comparison, IMHO, to what most women feel. I don't agree with men having A's, in fact, I find it terribly offensive now, but I understand it. Not EXCUSE it, but I understand it; and that's because I understand the male sex drive. Female A's, I don't understand (which is why I'm here) and is really what I'm looking for in all my posts and all my discussions with other people.

Anyway, back to the quote, yes, speaking for myself, I'm opportunistically driven. You won't want to hear this, but often times, I'd think to myself with a woman "how much effort will I have to put in to sleep with her". If the answer was "not much", I'd do it. If the answer was "not happening" or "way too much", I'd just move on. So, no, it's not like I went out there and chased the "hard to get" girls, I looked for the girls who were looking back. And I think that's what most men do; we chase, of course, but we only chase what we think we can catch. The question to "chased" WW's that I think is terribly important; why did that OM think he could catch you? What about you made you stand out as someone who'd be an easy catch? Because there was something, I can nearly guarantee it, unconscious flirting, oversharing (men don't share much, so, what might seem like "normal" to a woman flashes bright red "she want's to f**k me" to a man).. Something though, there was something, because men hate being shot down, and generally won't approach unless we're pretty sure the answer will be "Yes".

Poof....gone. Growing old sucks. I truly miss that omg I can’t wait to tear your clothes off feeling.

This post just makes me so sad. There are ways to fix this. Yes, they have side effects and you need to decide if they are right for you or not, but low dose testosterone/estrogen therapy will most likely take you from where you where you are to more motivated for sex than you've ever been in your life. If you want to fix it, find a doc to help you, they are out there, and they can fix this for you (and others with this problem, assuming, of course, that the lack of sex drive isn't a symptom of lack of interest/love/attraction for your husband).

Just about everything else in my life pales in comparison to that measure; sure, you have a good job, you're in shape, you take care of business, and you make the time to spend it with those who matter to you. None of that matters at all, at least not to me, if my W doesn't want to sleep with me. It's the number 1 thing I think about, and it's the most important thing to me in my day to day happiness.

Sorry if I missed this, but have you ever clearly communicated to her just how you feel about this issue, and how strong those feelings are?

Have you or her tried some cognitive behavioral counseling to resolve this impasse?

Red horse - (I think it was you) why didn’t you send that text to your wife? Just to see what happened? Have you expressed to her exactly what you want from her? I thought that all I needed to do keep my husband from cheating was to have sex with him whenever. It would get crazy at times, but I’m sure there was some duty sex mixed in because we have 3 kids and a ton of obligations. How would I ever know that was an issue if he didn’t speak up?

I’m sitting here reading this thread like WTF? I did have lots of sex, whenever he wanted, but maybe I didn’t initiate enough or do this or do that and I’m now going back to trying to blame myself. Ugh. If my WH had any complaints or needed more passion - all he would’ve had to do was communicate. I don’t know about this libido thing because I’m not there yet - but can any of you complaining try to turn your wives on? Tell your WWs how sexy they are, buy them lingerie, tell them you want to jump them, etc? Try and get the whole thing started?

Question for the men on this thread: do you realize there are dangers associated with hormone replacement therapy in women? According to the Mayo Clinic:

In the largest clinical trial to date, a combination estrogen-progestin pill (Prempro) increased the risk of certain serious conditions, including:

Heart disease

Stroke

Blood clots

Breast cancer

Is it better to have a horny wife if it means the possiblikity if her dying years earlier? I think a lot of the BH here are not taking into account the age issue here. This is not a 28 year old that just doesn’t feel like getting busy.

^ An excellent point that I’m glad to see made.

Is it better to have a horny wife if it means the possiblikity if her dying years earlier? I think a lot of the BH here are not taking into account the age issue here. This is not a 28 year old that just doesn’t feel like getting busy.

Not answering the question directly, but I'll give you perhaps an interesting data point. If I were 50 (which I am) and a doctor said to me "here's a pill that will keep your sex drive as it was at 20, but, there's a 10% chance you'll die 3 years early because of it", I'd take it, without a 2nd thought. I'd rather have 27 years of great sex with my wife than 30 years of mediocre sex with no drive.

This is NOT implying women should do this, it's an example to illustrate how important this is to me, and I suspect, many other high drive people.

This is not a 28 year old that just doesn’t feel like getting busy

But 6 years doesn't turn one from a spring chicken to a dusty old hag either. It was just 6 years ago that she was doing everything in her power to meet up with someone other than her H and engage in wild, monkey sex.

Bottom line here....RH is in R. His wife is not.

RedHorse, unfortunately you tale is a common one.

I have had the same issue with my fWW for years. Her libido seemed very low, before I realized it was being used up by her AP. He was getting plenty and I was being refused. THAT is what pissed me off.

After the smoke cleared and things fell into the routine, I finally told her I need to talk. I was not happy, and something was going to change. I also had needs, and apparently she was unable or unwilling to meet those needs. I told her I wouldn't do what she did, go behind my back to another when I was more than available. We would go our separate ways and I will find someone more compatible, and she would be free to do the same.

I think that was a wake up call, she knew I was serious because I've had great reservations about trying to R from the beginning. I gave her every opportunity to put in the effort, and it's only been the very bare minimum. That just isn't good enough.

It got better, not much, but a just enough. For now.

This sucks- I think the other issue with what you mentioned is a valid one. Of course any woman wants to be romanced. But it’s often hard for a BH to try and romance their WWs.. insecurities and anger take hold. It’s one thing to romance a good faithful woman, it’s honestly a lot harder to try and go out of the way to do it for. A cheating woman. Why? Well the analogy of damaged goods or tarnished silver kind of applies. If a pristine mustang has some dirt on on it, a good wash and wax will make its true brilliance shown through.. its worth the effort for the gem underneath the dust. This is how I see the pursuit and romancing of a faithful wife. For a wife that’s cheated, it’s like washing the dirt off a car that’s rusty.. sure it may look better, but underneath the layer of dirt, the true value of the car shows, and it doesn’t look as good as the shiny mustang... not worth the effort of cleaning and waxing. There are many posts here about BS who need to see their WS as objects and in diminutive submissive positions to have sex. Because another man has tarnished what I held on a pedestal, how can i treasure another mans trash again? Not to be crude or rude but that’s the reality of how many BHs see their wives after dday. So the impetus to prove value falls on the WW. To prove to the husband that the rust can be repaired, and she can shine again, not as bright as the car that never saw mileage, but good enough to not sell...

and I’m sorry if that sounds hurtful to WW, it’s just kind of the reality of what you become in your BHs eyes, at least temporarily. I’m sure many BW would say the same about WH.

Poppy- ok there are risks to trying to rejuvenate libido for menopausal women. I get that. I wouldn’t ask a woman who hadn’t cheated to take those risks on. Her loyalty would have been enough to sustain my needs and how I handle them... But a woman who

Jeopardized my health via stds and cancer from HPV, I’d be less concerned about... idk it’s a shitty situation all around.

So, older women who are menopausal, or premenopausal,are "dusty old hags?" Lol. And men wonder why their wives grow older, experience changes in their body, and aren't horny and ready all the time.

Actually,six years is a long time. Especially considering normal hormonal changes for an older woman.

Six years ago,I wanted sex every day,all day. Then I entered menopause about eighteen months ago. I have no libido. None. I am still very much attracted to,and in love with my husband. But the interest in sex is gone. I've been to the doctor. Medication helps. But it's just as much mental as it is physical. So,while physically I can have sex, getting in that mood is nearly impossible. I'm tired. Stressed. I'm easily irritated. I have hot flashes. I don't feel sexy any more. I look as I always have. I'm fit,and know I'm attractive, logically. But feelings aren't logical, in the moment,all the time.

OP, your feelings matter. You have every right to feel the way you do. I'm sure it sucks that om got what you haven't. It's also true that you got a whole lot more from your wife than he did. Your wife can't help the changes happening to her body. She doesn't have a choice. You do. You can choose to trade your "dusty old hag' in for a spring chicken. Or you can go with her to her doctor,and discuss it with the doctor, and see if there's a solution to fixing her libido.

Sigh. Here we go. I'll respond since I'm "one of those men on this thread". However hopefully we can focus on those questions are geared towards helping the OP and his WW navigate this impasse.

Thissucks: Yes, thousand times yes. She felt pressured by lingerie. Then I find lots of receipts for lingerie after dday.

Poppy: Yes. It would be something for her to factor in her risk benefit analysis. If they ever get that far. This is a tough issue for sure. Be assured that people (female or male) requesting hormone replacement therapy are advised of the risks so that they can make an informed decision.

For comparison: Testosterone replacement therapy has documented risks of blood clots, stroke, enlarged prostrate and perhaps prostrate cancer and heart attack. Viagra also has some unpleasant side effects. They treat priapism by ...nvm . My point is that millions of men perceive the risk to be worth the reward. Some might find this shallow and shortsighted. Others might understand taking a risk for something central to one's sense of identity.

[This message edited by antlered at 1:47 PM, April 2nd (Monday)]

I agree that levels can completely change in six years. Night and day. A person has to decide if the risks in replacement hormones are worth it. Maybe she wants to see the grandkids grow up. I don't know what's in her mind. Everyone has to decide these issues for themselves.

Hellfire- please don’t lump yourself or any other woman who has aged gracefully into the bucket of “not being worth keeping around” The differentiator is faithfulness. I’d never dare tell my wife at ANY age that I was going to trade her in for a newer model if she didn’t fix issues presented by nature and biology, iIF she had HONORED me, and RESPECTED me, by having been faithful to me in our life. A woman like that is worthy of my honor, integrity, respect and love. I’m a romantic at heart, and a woman who has done right by me in the good times, will have my undying loyalty and commitment in the bad times. This doesn’t include infidelity..or the OPs situation. That’s the big asterisk on it all.

Only A man who is truly vain and selfish would think of ditching his post menopausal wife for better sex, IF she had been faithful in the M. Unfortunately, in my mind, and plenty of BHs, those rules kind of get rewritten for wives who cheated... they aren’t as worthy of struggling for, compromising for, or pining for, as the wife who hadn’t cheated...

[This message edited by nicenomore at 1:54 PM, April 2nd (Monday)]

Plan C, I think that's very considerate of you. Congratulations on getting fit and healthy.

So, older women who are menopausal, or premenopausal,are "dusty old hags?"

Nope. Not what I said. The post I replied to said something along the lines of that you can't expect her to act like a 20-something yr old female. My reply is that neither is she so old that you rule out passionate sex. They went to one extreme, I went to the other.

My wife is older, already went thru it. She loves sex with me. I know that all bodies react differently, but my point is that I don't think of her as an old hag, and RH's wife certainly isn't either. It's not a good defense in this case.

Only A man who is truly vain and selfish would think of ditching his post menopausal wife for better sex, IF she had been faithful in the M. Unfortunately, in my mind, and plenty of BHs, those rules kind of get rewritten for wives who cheated... they aren’t as worthy of struggling for, compromising for, or pining for, as the wife who hadn’t cheated...

This sums it up about as good as possible.

I never gave my XWW a chance for things to even happen. She cheated. I kicked her out. The story of us was over. But, had I given her another chance, and her not having enthusiastic sex became an issue, she'd be gone. Yes, I know it's her body. And she could have said no and I'd have respected that. But I respect myself more, and she'd be served. If she could put all of that effort, literally hundreds (maybe even thousands) of hours into meeting up with AP to have wild, crazy sex, and then I get plain Jane crap? Nope....would not happen. One year, 3 years, however long our false R was, I'd drop her off at his house and never look back.

Unfortunately, in my mind, and plenty of BHs, those rules kind of get rewritten for wives who cheated... they aren’t as worthy of struggling for, compromising for, or pining for, as the wife who hadn’t cheated...

She can't unfuck the OM.

Again, you feel how you feel. But if your wife is literally not worth anything to you anymore, why keep her?

I (personally) would never stay with a man who no longer valued me. As a MH, if my H said he couldn't get over it, I'd say fine. I know he is lucky as hell to have me, even with my sordid past. I am a valuable human and have many great qualities that are too numerous to list. I am a catch and would have no trouble finding another, if that's what I decided. And every healthy WW should feel this way. Anything less suggests she has more work to do. We are all amazing and valuable.

If my H doesn't see things this way or treats me as if I need to forever do back flips like a circus monkey, I would say thanks, but no thanks. That is not a marriage I am interested in having. I will not be in an unequal partnership with no hope of balance. I could never live fearing illness or weakness because my H wouldn't be fulfilled anymore. Geeze, it's menopause. I can't go through it because six years ago I was wayward? Just no.

I do NOT speak for all wives. They certainly can choose for themselves. But the endless years of imbalance in power sounds like indentured servitude, not healthy marriage. Waywards do matter, too.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:42 PM, April 2nd (Monday)]

I do NOT speak for all wives. They certainly can choose for themselves. But the endless years of imbalance in power sounds like indentured servitude, not healthy marriage. Waywards do matter, too.

But it's not like anyone can make someone stay in a marriage. If they choose to do as asked bc they don't want to lose their BH/BW, then that's their choice.

Anyone can make any demand of a spouse. Doesn't mean the spouse will do it. They just better be ready for the consequences of not doing it if its a deal-breaker to the one making the demands.

I'm with nicenomore: If she did right by me in good times, biological setbacks become mere par for the course.

But, if she enthusiastically expended

energy having illicit sex in her sexual prime, she'd better be willing to walk over hot coals to make sure I was sexually fulfilled--menopause be damn.

Hypnosis.

Harmone replacement.

Counseling.

Anything.

If she didn't, I'd show her the door.

She can declare her love for you until the cows come home. Action speaks louder than words.