SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you consider that most porn is consumed by hetero men, distilling porn to its essence, the one fantasy that most men share in common is a woman who is sexually aggressive.

In the context of affairs, the most hurtful thing we read from BH is where the BH perceives that his WW was more sexually aggressive with the AP than she had been with him.

Yeah.. Actually, hell yeah. That's a huge turn on, the woman who "can't get enough" of me. It's why one of the most popular (or the most popular, I think it actually is number 1) is "MILF". A more "mature" (25, lol) experienced woman overcome with lust and taking a "younger" guy on the ride of his life. Highly sexually aggressive and confident, knows what she wants and is out to get it. And yes, of course, for at least some of us, our wives "flipped the switch" from "duty sex" in the M to "can't get enough sex" in the A, so, again, a good comparison between "porn star" and "non porn star" sex.

I just think the idea here is that if you're equating "porn star sex" with a compliant partner in general, then all you're seeking is purely selfish getting off, and you may as well hire a sex worker.

Not at all, at least not for me. Yes, "compliant" is one way to put it. But it cuts both ways, it's not just a "compliant wife", it's also a husband who's "compliant" to whatever his wife wants too. It's not really even how I think about it, it's really "up for anything" for both the woman and the man that's a lot of the fantasy for me. But it's not one sided, it's having a partner who's up for anything and me being so attracted to her that I'm ALSO up for anything, and then seeing what kind of hijinx we can get into together with no "limits" on where it leads us. That's the "porn star sex" fantasy for me, yes, it does involve the "acts" I talked about before, but it's not "having anal sex" that's the fantasy. It's the girl on top of me having sex, and then, suddenly, things getting "tighter" because she just wanted me to experience that with her. So, I guess, in some limited ways it's "compliance" but it's far more anticipating the other persons desires and just fulfilling them. I never see porn stars negotiating a facial, I see a woman in the throes of ecstacy (probably faked, but, hey, that's what it appears to be) saying "c*m on my face". That's the fantasy, not "doing it" (come on, that particular act, having done it, doesn't feel as good as lots of other ways to orgasm, so it's certainly not about "feels best"). The fantasy is making someone so horny that they WANT you to do it, not that they are complying with your request. And that's the fantasy that porn shows, at least to me. And sadly, that's also the fantasy that my W provided to the OM. Hence, pornstar sex, at least in my case.

Why is it assumed that those of us who don't talk in detail about our sexual likes and dislikes and experiences are ashamed of it? It's just none of your damn business!

Being a sex slave, 8n my mind, is not the same as enjoying consensual sex between 2 caring and safe partners. I'm not talking about submission vs. dominance. I'm talking about letting someone else completely use your body for their own sole pleasure without any care or concern for you.

Pornstar sex. The thing that irritates me most about those words is the word "star". Porn actors aren't "stars". They are actors. They are, for the most part, broken in some way. Not all and I know that is a generalization. Now, there are actually some "stars" in the porn world. But, in general, just no. They are paid to have sex and sometimes really just disgusting sex and sex acts and they are gross not "stars". And, they are acting. It is all an act and a show. For the gullible masses that pay to watch. And jerk off, I guess. That is porn sex. All the masturbating that happens.

Sorry, sisoon, not quite on point.

And that was kind of my point to sisoon above, SMS. He said that kind of sex is “contrived” in porn, and I fully agree—but when actual people do it, and enjoy it, it’s not contrived—it’s real.

it’s not contrived—it’s real.

And can be extremely fun, fulfilling, exciting, bonding and intimate.

"Porn star sex" to me is just two people "letting go" and enjoying one another. Of course, it's contrived in porn, it's acting/scripted. But when you do it for real, "contrived" is the last thing I'm thinking, more like "Wow, this is awesome".

Being a sex slave, 8n my mind, is not the same as enjoying consensual sex between 2 caring and safe partners. I'm not talking about submission vs. dominance. I'm talking about letting someone else completely use your body for their own sole pleasure without any care or concern for you.

This for me is it in a nutshell. He didn't give a crap about her. He couldn't finish fast enough to get out and go home to his wife and play with his little kids. It was all about dominating her, and in his sick mind revenge against me for dashing his business dream.

I really have nothing against the acts. For me, its whatever floats your boat. So I guess it's the mindset when you do them FR loves the excitement and its fun for her. All good. But when its done just to inflict dominance it isn't fun anymore. At least it wasn't in my Ex's case, although there HAD to be some sort of pleasure involved or she would have said no.

Its still very confusing to me. Just another thing however I need to let go of. Its her problem to live with. I do know the memories now kill her.

RIO, I totally agree.

For some reason there’s a perception/myth/stereotype that wilder, kinky stuff =/= intimate or loving. And that’s really what this thread boils down to. It depends on your partner and your relationship.

Yeah.. Actually, hell yeah. That's a huge turn on, the woman who "can't get enough" of me. It's why one of the most popular (or the most popular, I think it actually is number 1) is "MILF". A more "mature" (25, lol) experienced woman overcome with lust and taking a "younger" guy on the ride of his life. Highly sexually aggressive and confident, knows what she wants and is out to get it.

You just described my ONS after I left my XWH last year. Ladies, for any of you who divorce, highly recommended experience, lol. He said it was like a porn and I thought that was adorable.

when its done just to inflict dominance it isn't fun anymore. At least it wasn't in my Ex's case, although there HAD to be some sort of pleasure involved or she would have said no.

For me, the conclusion depends. If one is truly being dominated, treated as a slave, they have no choice. They can't say no. I'm not saying that was the case with your CW. Obviously, she wasn't locked in a box and only allowed put for sex. But, there could be some psychological thing going on there that would make one feel like they have no choice. It happens.

The way I read the comment about the CEbeing a sex slave was that it wasn't a fun, adventurous enjoyable thing for her. It was demeaning and disrespectful and maybe even abusive. I find it sad that someone could feel so bad about herself that she felt the need to allow herself to be used like that.

PTSI-

What tells me this I suppose is variety of things. Research? Experience? Girlfriends? Past lovers?

I hope I am certain that I do not meet the mold of most women as far as sexual desires go. I have been sexually abused in my youth and sometimes as an adult still like to be abused in the bedroom. Things i like are indicative of redundant of past abuse. I’m sure you realize now that you cannot possibly relate to how either have to do with the other. Mostly being that your father didn’t put his hands down your panties. That’s ok. That’s how it should be... I’m pretty certain most fathers don’t go around doing what my dad did.

I also feel certain that had my father not sexually abused me, I wouldn’t equate love from a man as being shown through his naked body upon mine.

I’m numb to that now really. I’ve never confronted the abuse more than I have here on this forum. In fact I feel silly for not comparing the two sooner. It makes sense now why some of my fantasies Include a man, older than man me, doing degrading,punitive, abusive type things and it gets me off. I’m no expert but i imagine the two correlate and are both taboo.

Not to mention my eagerness to please. I literally get off as I am pretending to be his (my H’s) whore and am preforming oral sex on him. Not even touching myself. The way he moans and him in my mouth. I like being his... whatever the fuck he wants me to be... sex slave? Sure... I like being all those things for him... and i feel dirty liking them bc they really are masochistic things that must others don’t and probably shouldn’t like.

RIO- I’m not in the habit of pretending to be anything other than ME to my H but I will take your words with me. I can tell you this, once my H was fully back in and so was I, the sex was infinitely better... better than any sex I ever had. I was one of those that thought sex w AP was all that. My god was I wrong. Whatever H and I transitioned into post A is truly the most connected and bonded sexual experience of my life. I am completely comfortable w my H but now H is finally really comfortable with me too or at least, I don’t care if he is... I take care of myself and hope he’s doing the same. I tell you this bc (though I’m not 100% on your journey but just some pieces I see here) maybe you’re wife is like me... having the sex of lifetime, with YOU. Try believing her instead of fighting it. What have you got to lose?

You just described my ONS after I left my XWH last year. Ladies, for any of you who divorce, highly recommended experience, lol. He said it was like a porn and I thought that was adorable.

LOL. I saw an article by a woman in her late 40's who date a man in his 20's. She described him as a "smooth-skinned erection machine".

I’ve pondered this question for a few days with lots of thoughts on the topic, but it’s a complicated one to simply answer. I see this question with multiple answers depending on the context.

Personally, I never understood the desire to watch porn. Same with strip clubs. What are you really getting from them? Isn’t the real thing much better? Just my opinion especially if porn and other things are replacing the need for your partner. That gets dangerous and destructive. It can also give a false sense of what people really like and enjoy with seeing things constantly over-the-top.

I equate porn to a long distance race. There’s moments the pace increases and crazy sprints are run, but you cannot possibly sustain that pace the entire race. There has to be consistent , calm pacing as well. Porn sometimes paints the image of a crazy sprint all the time. Nobody can live that way and sustain it. Tenderness, connection, true intimacy, romance is needed too. Especially for women. I do think a balance of sprints and steady pacing is needed for both men and women.

In saying that, I think some single people use it for obvious reasons and some couples use it to enhance relationships. It’s just such a broad question and I don’t want to ever seem judgmental. Moving on...

In the context of pornstar sex being over-the-top. I guess that’s the point. Wild, uninhibited sex where anything and everything goes. I don’t have a problem with couples doing whatever their desires include. Communicate, be healthy, if you both desire things, go for it. I’m not in your bedroom so I think it’s a personal decision. I also think you should be able to communicate any desire without being made to feel that something is wrong with you. Being open and honest is key.

In the context of enhancing sex. I guess some use it for ideas. Again, I guess it depends on what you agree to together. Sexual preferences are just such a personal things so it varies from couple to couple/person to person.

In the context of being single and not having a sexual partner and/or spouse and needing to have sex or wanting to have sex. Well, no need to elaborate. It’s obvious.

In the context of WW giving the BS sex they didn’t offer their spouse or communicated they didn’t like, complete bullshit and I hate reading that for any person it happened to. Clearly, don’t have affairs but if they do occur, don’t make the betrayal even more devastating than it already is by doing things that you would not normally do, especially when it’s something the partnered desired. And don’t experiment with AP’s. Just complete bullshit.

[This message edited by Hutch at 8:36 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]

When a good guy friend of mine was out with me not long after my separation, he said something about once my ex had had sex with the young AP, there was no hope because he got pornstar sex. He said all younger women have watched porn and know how to fake the over the top response seen in porn.

Later, when thinking about it, I equated his statement as doing the trashy things I heard my male friends describe. Like 3 women and a cup and something about a dragon. Dude, I’ve rocked a few men’s worlds, but I’m not doing that, so if that is what some guys wants, I’ll pass

I seem to have very interesting male friends 🤣

LOL. I saw an article by a woman in her late 40's who date a man in his 20's. She described him as a "smooth-skinned erection machine".

With muscles, lol, yep. That's about accurate.

When I think "porn star sex" it's not really about the mechanics or the acts. It's about having a woman who's totally and unabashedly into me and who practically drags me into the bedroom because she can't stand to wait another minute. The sex that follows could be completely vanilla or freaky as all hell, but it's the lack of inhibition and the pure naked lust that appeals to me, the "I want you, and I want you to have me" dynamic. It's very much a psychological and emotional thing for me.

Obviously nobody is like that all the time, but it's really nice to experience it with your partner from time to time.

Like has been said by others imo "porn star sex" is all about enthusiasm, excitedly pushing boundries, and going outside of the normal routine.

So far everyone is chiming in on pornstar sex by wws but i can think of it on the other side. Lets say a wh had either stopped going down on his wife or maybe never did. Maybe the wife wanted to spice up the love life but wh just stuck with routine duty sex with minimal foreplay.

Then in post Dday fallout BW finds out about a ton of cunnilingus, or maybe the wh going out to buy fuzzy handcuffs (that bw once brought up but was refused)

Oral sex alone isn't pornstar sex but the fact he was happy to do something with AP that bw was denied puts it in my sphere of pornstar sex

He said that kind of sex is “contrived” in porn, and I fully agree—but when actual people do it, and enjoy it, it’s not contrived—it’s real.

I agree. On the screen, it's contrived. IRL, it could be essentially as contrived as it is on scree, but it could also flow naturally out of the participants' desires.

My take is that an act that flows naturally out of the participants' desires has nothing to do with porn, although porn may have suggested it.

Foenix Rising- your group might be self selecting, though. and THAT is perfectly normal. I don't think you can generalize to women. Frankly, in my experience, women have the higher sex drive once they don't put the societal crap on it. You do realize that heterosexual men claim an average of twice as many partners as heterosexual women, right? Someone is lying. A lot of someones. Obviously that math simply does not work.

There have been studies that show that BDSM practitioners tend to be mentally healthier and have better and more fulfilling relationships. Now, that may be correlation and not causation since you can't engage in a relationship like that without some good communication and trust, which is obviously correlated with a stronger relationship, but it is indeed a fact. While there are some who have had experiences like you and work through the trauma this way (I am so sorry to hear that, and I'm glad you're getting help), it is far from the majority.

I'm with DarknessFalls- kinky or wild sex can absolutely be among the most intimate. It all depends on who you're doing it with and the energy between you and your partner(s).

SisterMilkshake- continuing to promote the stereotype that sex workers are "broken" is actively harmful to them. Your average sex worker isn't someone who works the streets for drug money. I think you'd be surprised if you actually learned a little about the industry. I am not a sex worker but many of my friends and acquaintances are. And you can easily google studies that show sex workers generally enter the industry willingly because it's an extremely well paying job for a few years. They are regular people and you wouldn't pick them out on the street. No more broken than the rest of us.

SisterMilkshake- continuing to promote the stereotype that sex workers are "broken" is actively harmful to them.

Well, I don't get shocked much here, but this one really did shock me. I really thought that the brainwashing of society on this particular issue was "complete" and nobody could say anything like this anymore, but.. Well, here it is.

Of course SOME sex workers are broken people. Drug addicts, terrible childhoods, mental/emotional issues. I'd even go so far as to say "A significantly higher percentage than the general population" would fit that description. But not all. I also knew a few, mostly girls from college who, right after school, did some pay for play stuff. Ranging from the very, very early "cam girls" days all the way to full-time escorting. I honestly couldn't tell you much difference between them and any other girl I knew (or dated). They had good, decent, bad, and awful childhoods. Some finished college, some didn't. All of that, AFAIK, did it for a period of time and then stopped. I really don't know if they enjoyed the work or not, I suspect, much like any other job where you deal with random customers, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. And I'm sure, to keep this somewhat on topic, they all provided "pornstar sex" to their customers.

Now, this isn't without it's problems, that I admit. Making sex work entirely legal is, without question in my mind, the right thing to do. It's insanity to say that you can commit a crime by monetizing your body in only one particular way. Want to get shot at for money? No problem, there's the recruiter over there. Want to work in a mine, on an oil rig, as a lumberjack. No problem have at it, and make sure you have good health insurance (those jobs are the "most dangerous jobs" by injury/death rates).

However, sex work being entirely legal does, IMHO, tear at the fabric of society in very deep and meaningful ways. There's an issue right now with men having a "failure to launch" and not expressing much interest in relationships with women, eschewing romance for porn and video games. I'm not sure how "real" that is, but the birth stats/marriage stats are absolutely telling us "something" is happening. And legal prostitution will only accelerate that trend away from relationships to "single serving size" transactional relationships, IMHO. It's a problem, or a possible one that I can certainly foresee if sex becomes commonly bought/sold.

We will see, it certainly feels like the tide is moving to more and more permissive attitudes about sex for sale. But saying that every or even most prostitutes are "broken people" just doesn't seem to encompass those I know who've done it. It's a crappy job with significant risk (much of it because of it's illegality) that pays very, very well. There's a whole line of jobs that meet that description, I really have trouble distinguishing why this one is so different.

And, a little thought experiment for you. Where are all the stories about "broken" and trafficked male prostitutes? Or do they not exist? Are men somehow immune to this? Which, I honestly find very funny, a whole lot of male prostitutes are "gay for pay", which, as a straight man, sounds like, well, one of the worst jobs imaginable. And somehow, it seems that almost nobody really cares about that; is it only broken women who become professionals, where men, hey, it's just another career choice? Or is it because we know that sex is somehow different for men, even sleeping with their "non-preferred" gender is somehow less "damaging" than a woman doing the same with her preferred gender?

There have been studies that show that BDSM practitioners tend to be mentally healthier and have better and more fulfilling relationships.

Well, hey, I've got that going for at least, one thing pointing to "mentally healthy". Plenty of things pointing the opposite way though, so I'm not sure that weighs out! ;)

I'm not shocked by this though, it often seems when I used to meet people into "alternative sex" they were well grounded people. I always remember hearing "it's the people you least suspect" who are into all manners of kink, and, I think that might be more true than I thought as a younger man. It's always the quiet ones! ;)

[This message edited by Rideitout at 6:17 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

RIO- I respectfully suggest that the dropping in marriage/relationships is a correlation issue again, not a causation one.

Frankly, if having sex workers provide safe, legal sex is going to be the thing that stops people from getting married, then it's probably for the best. Those people don't sound like marriage material. If men are more interested in porn and VR type stuff, they don't sound like they would be good relationship partners and it's likely best they are out of the marriage pool. They're still getting their needs met and the sex workers are getting paid, so seems like it's for the best all around.

I suspect people being less interested in marriage/relationships is far more a function of economic status, mental health, marriage being less important as social status, etc. I seriously doubt that legalized sex work has anything to do with the moral fabric of society.

People who want to be in relationships will want to be in relationships regardless. Getting regular sex is not a substitute for a real relationship. And if it is for that particular person, again- very likely that it's better that way because their potential partner deserves way better than that.