SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi TIF.. I have been where you are.. And it is not sustainable please believe me.

After DDay my WW begged and pleased with me to keep the AP as her friend.. To not force her to choose.. And because I was so CoD I let her.. They went away together that year to more music festivals etc.. On their own.. I hated it but didn't know what else to do.. I had promised her I wouldn't take her friend away..

Then I had to have a biopsy for prostrate cancer.. I had it the day before she went away for a 4 day festival with AP.. I was left in pain.. With 4 kids.. Whilst she had a blast.. Finally reached my limit.. Anger hit me hard..

From that point on I was quite clear with her what continued contact with AP was doing to us. To our family.. And to me.. I told her she will either lose him or me.. She couldn't have both.. If they didn't have an affair then yes he could have been her friend. But they did and she lost that option.. You cannot put that genie back..

I got my ducks in a row and filed.. I told a few people what was happening.. And told her why I was filing.. Not because of the affair. But because she kept choosing the AP over us.. And she needed to choose US.. she finally got the message when the papers arrived.. Went NC.. we are trying to fix things.. But we both know her actions have hurt us.. and for the first time since the AP came into her life nearly 4yrs ago I have some peace..

You CAN live as you are right now.. But it will wipe away your self esteem.. she should be fighting to keep you in her life not the other way around.. She KNOWS keeping the AP in her life is destroying you.. She knows it is wrong and what she has done has hurt you terribly.. But she doesn't care enough to give up what SHE wants..

I would advise you to get your things in order.. File.. And then see if she wants to face the consequences of her affair..as a single life without ALL the benefits you bring..

[This message edited by StrugglingCJ at 5:58 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

@TIF

No advice, I am Ill equipped to give it, I find myself in a very similar predicament so I just wanted to wish you strength and honour to do what ever is right for you and your future happiness.

👊🏻

Before the titanic hit the iceberg people were sure it was theoretically unsinkable . If you didnt see that your wife was unsatisfied untrustworthy and was about to make a bad decision that doesnt say anything about you besides that you didnt have the correct information

But in your case you are now on the deck of a sinking ship and instead of looking for a lifeboat you are arguing with yourself saying “ well ok it is sinking but i havent drowned yet. Who knows maybe the life boat will be attacked by a shark . There doesnt seem to be a wrong answer here because both could have bad outcomes “ the isnt logic , this is just fear and denial speaking

Every moment you stay in this situation you are changing yourself into a version of you that is defeatist and lives in denial .

If you want to stay with her then acknowledge you love her too much to protect yourself ( this is the only reasonable interpretation ) Acknowledge that and play a less passive role in your own recovery .She might still break your heart but at least you aren't diminishing your own self or teaching yourself to be a liar.

[This message edited by siracha at 9:01 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

I've lived in a culture in which M was 1) a business arrangement and 2) a way to pass assets on to the next generation. It seemed to work. My bet is that the culture is changing or has changed.

But our culture is one in which M is based on being loving and in love.

*****

I think a WS is a failure. IMO, the vast majority of WSes in essence feel some sort of 'hole' inside and cheat because they think external validation will fill that hole.

That makes a WS who has not learned to validate themself a wild card. I just can't see how it is good for a BS to rely on an unhealed WS who can go off track at any time in so many ways.

In trying to make your M a business arrangement, I think you're taking unnecessary, uncalled for, and unwise risks.

JMO.

It might sound fucked up, but I enjoy her company even if she apparently doesn't respect me (she says she does, sometimes I believe her). Things are fun, and easy, and comfortable. I am, when not immediately facing some specific instance of bullshit, content. It doesn't seem sustainable though. Hence this 2x4 seeking thread.

It doesn’t sound fucked up. It sounds like a normal betrayed husband who loves his wife. But this is why I used the “adultery as abuse” analogy (or infidelity, take your pick on the term you are comfortable with). And it’s why I’ve talked about the need to separate love from the R/D decision.

You can love someone who has abused you (and I doubt many would argue your WW is not being at least emotionally abusive right now). You can enjoy their company. I can say the same about my WW. Which means what? It doesn’t mean they are good for you and might be very bad for you. I think your WW is doing incalculable damage you haven’t even added up yet — but you will.

Things are “fun” as long as you can walk the cognitive dissonance high wire and not really think about who she is and what she is doing.

When you do it all comes crashing in on you and you hurt.

She’s unsafe. She’s a bad partner. She’s abusive.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:12 AM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

So... when are you gonna start fucking other folks too?

Back in my 20s, I had an absolutely gorgeous FWB. He was so much fun. I had so many memorable experiences with him, not just sexually. I thought it was safe to have that FWB relationship because I didn't love him and I didn't want a relationship with him. I thought that I could enjoy him for what he was. He was a good time. He was smart, witty, exciting, and a flaming narcissist. But I told myself "so what? I'm not his girlfriend. We can go out for drinks and so forth and laugh and joke and have deep philosophical conversations and we can enjoy each other sexually and it's no big deal. This won't damage me." I ended it because being around him was damaging, even though I had no committment to him nor did I want one.

To think of trying this mindset in a marriage is just beyond me. I don't even want a casual friend who I don't feel safe with. This guy had never actively done anything to hurt me and just him being an unsafe personality made me choose to eliminate him from my life. To choose to be married to someone who is going to damage you but thinking you can handle it because you don't love them like that anymore just doesn't sound healthy.

Things are “fun” as long as you can walk the cognitive dissonance high wire and not really think about who she is and what she is doing.

When you do it all comes crashing in on you and you hurt.

Yep I did this for 5 years and it does come crashing down at some point. The cognitive dissonance is a killer.

My fear of leaving almost cost me my life, please don't make the same mistakes I did. It really isn't worth it. I did have some good times with my STBX even though I was in limbo but the ugly would always rear it's head and it would make me spiral. I really became a shell of a person because of it.

So I see a lot of fear in your thread. Fear of finances, fear of the impact on the kids, fear of home security, fear of moving on with someone else. These are all normal and in the divorce thread it is discussed plenty of times. I had those same fears. However fear va reality is not the same.

Change can be scary. Fear can stop you from growing and progressing. You are always one decision away from a totally different life. The divorce forum has many people that have successfully moved on after divorce. I am one of them.

Me personally. I divorced my ex after DD2. That was enough for me to seek a better life for me and my son. It worked .

The very definition of emotional abuse is being in a situation where you have to give up protecting yourself from damage in order to keep receiving love from the other person .

After a while the victim of abuse feels they are no longer worth anything and they stop fighting for themselves . That is the death spiral

Personally i have been both a victim and an abuser so please trust me when I tell you she probably doesn't give a shit about your pain .

But if you have stopped giving a shit about your pain that is 100 percent unacceptable - you just cant do this to yourself or your children . Have you considered a different therapist ?

[This message edited by siracha at 12:36 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

I might have made it to panel 5.

I’m glad you still have your sense of humor. 😀

Panel 6 reminds me of my favorite painting, Edvard Munich’s The Scream.

Try not to let your face melt. That’s usually a bad sign 😉

I did have some good times with my STBX even though I was in limbo but the ugly would always rear it's head and it would make me spiral.

I can say the same thing, very similar experience

Let’s face it: if you were really comfortable with your current situation, you wouldn’t be asking the Internet for their opinion or arguing with people who you know will disagree.

If the financial and custodial implications are divorce are really what’s holding you back, then tell your wife to put her “I’m so sorry” on paper and grant you a generous (but fair) postnuptial agreement.

If you’re going to spend the foreseeable future with a liar, you will probably sleep better with some contingency in place for when this eventually blows up again.

Thanks for all the advice in the thread. It's good stuff to think on.

I think you're taking unnecessary, uncalled for, and unwise risks.

I have told my wife I am carrying more risk than I ought to tolerate.

So... when are you gonna start fucking other folks too?

Won't happen.

Have you considered a different therapist ?

I have not. He has said that most people would tolerate the level of fuck ups that I'm tolerating. He says if I ever feel like it's unhealthy and impacting my abilities at work, as a father, to enjoy things, then I should become more concerned about my inaction. In another thread I mentioned that he doesn't think I'm being abused or intentionally causing self harm. It's a lack of self-preservation instinct.

Let’s face it: if you were really comfortable with your current situation, you wouldn’t be asking the Internet for their opinion or arguing with people who you know will disagree.

If the financial and custodial implications are divorce are really what’s holding you back, then tell your wife to put her “I’m so sorry” on paper and grant you a generous (but fair) postnuptial agreement.

If you’re going to spend the foreseeable future with a liar, you will probably sleep better with some contingency in place for when this eventually blows up again.

Well, of course I'm not totally comfortable and happy. I even said I was seeking 2x4s. Either someone here will hit me with something hard enough to get me going, or I'll just take the beatings over the head with aplomb.

I do, at the very least, want to own my decisions with full understanding of the implications.

I've had her write down what she thinks is "fair" in a divorce. It's not legally binding. Honestly, after talking to my lawyer, it sounds like the best play is NEVER having her talk to a lawyer and go straight to mediation. What she is owed by law is far more than what she wrote down.

You keep forgetting that you’re dealing with a liar. You’re assuming that, if you were to divorce, she will act in good faith and agree to mediation.

You’re assuming that she wouldn’t have a conversation with a friend, a family member, or perhaps her affair partner who would say, “Wait, you’re agreeing to WHAT?!” You’re also discounting the possibility that she will leave you.

She’s already broken her vows. She continually demonstrates her comfort with deception.

So instead of making her put her promises and assurances into a legal binding document— since her word means absolutely nothing— you want to let more time pass (which will certainly work in her favor) and wait until things get nasty and contentious or until she decides to take off at a time and place of her choosing.

Good luck.

You keep forgetting that you’re dealing with a liar. You’re assuming that, if you were to divorce, she will act in good faith and agree to mediation.

I have contingency planned for combative divorce.

You’re assuming that she wouldn’t have a conversation with a friend, a family member, or perhaps her affair partner who would say, “Wait, you’re agreeing to WHAT?!” You’re also discounting the possibility that she will leave you.

If she leaves, she leaves.

She’s already broken her vows. She continually demonstrates her comfort with deception.

Correct.

So instead of making her put her promises and assurances into a legal binding document— since her word means absolutely nothing— you want to let more time pass (which will certainly work in her favor) and wait until things get nasty and contentious or until she decides to take off at a time and place of her choosing.

Good luck.

Like I said, I talked this over with my lawyer and have figured the best course of action if I do want to pursue divorce. I appreciate the advice.

If the financial and custodial implications are divorce are really what’s holding you back, then tell your wife to put her “I’m so sorry” on paper and grant you a generous (but fair) postnuptial agreement.

The problem is that postnuptials aren't enforceable in many states and aren't worth the paper they are printed on (not every state, granted). It's important to know if your state even regards these as enforceable. A WS can always just claim "duress" when the agreement was signed.

You may recall TIF that I was on the postnuptial track after my WW's failed polygraph earlier this year. Then I did additional research and found out they're worth nothing in my state.

I have told my wife I am carrying more risk than I ought to tolerate

TIF, is this really how you phrased it? Just my two cents here but I think you need to stop being so damn polite. This has Mr. Nice Guy written all over it. You're giving her an out here if you're really using this United Nations-level diplomatic language.

For example, the day after my WW failed her poly, she asked what I was thinking. I didn't say, "well after due consideration, I'm deeply concerned that this represents a lack of honesty on your part."

No I said, quote (these exact words), "I"m thinking you're a fucking liar. I'm thinking I don't want to be married to a fucking liar."

I didn't yell. I didn't throw things. But I didn't sugarcoat or mince around either.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:14 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

In another thread I mentioned that he doesn't think I'm being abused

By definition, your WW's actions since DDAY have been abusive.

Your therapist sucks.

Get a new therapist.

You deserve someone that loves and respects you. Cheaters are incapable of doing so.

Liars don't care enough about anyone other than themselves to do so.

You need to tap into figuring out what you really want in the next year, 5 years, etc. If you can choose to be in a sexless M, or be willing to accept getting an STD, and you don't need honesty or respect from your partner then by all means stay.

I wouldn't. But I'm not you.