SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi 2018

I am glad that you found some value in reading my thread. I got so much from SI I so want to pay some back in any way I can.

If I can share a few thoughts about tonight.

I think that it is crucial that you have a clear objective for tonight. You then need to formalize it in writing and if at all possible, get that and an outline agenda to her in advance.

Without this, you risk going into the meeting with vastly different objectives and expectations.

She might be hoping that the meeting will allow her to at last be fully open and honest about the A as her first step to winning you back and staring on the road to R.

If you go in with the objective of defining the path forward to D and the logistics of that, you might still have a 1000 questions about her A and how on earth could she value you and the kids so little to throw you away for some pimple faced wimp, but if you entertain that sort of information sharing in the discussion, you are going to be giving her hope, where there really is none.

There will be many other opportunities for you to get these answers when both of you are less vulnerable.

Also, be ready for love bombing. When I was first warned of it, I had know idea what it was. When the first wave of planes came in, I quickly recognised it. Man, the sheer desperation, coupled with almost unlimited creativity of my WW and some other WW's on here, astounds all.

If you are certain that D is your path, be ready for it and steel yourself against it.

Now one that is just an opinion. I have a suspicion that your WW might want to enlist you in her battle to re-establish a relationship with the children. That us not your job to do. Let her know that you will do nothing to harm her efforts, but that it was her choice to cheat on the family, and so she is the only one that can repair the damage. My DD still wants nothing to do with her mom. DS is WW's greatest fan. I support both in their decision.

Hoping it goes well tonight

Solid advice from ohfor.

Basically, remain all business when discussing the divorce--children, logistics, etc.

Of course, her goal will be entirely different. Don't get side-tracked by allowing the discussion to devolve into an emotional tit for tat.

Your old lady wants to set up this Mtg. to talk about her affair. Just let her talk.....asking your questions isn't going to change the facts. Either she will confirm what you already now or she will give you a line of grab.

I'd shut up and see where your old lady takes this meeting.

Now if she wanted to set up this Mtg. to talk about divorce then well maybe you might have some questions regarding her lawyers name.

Sorry, double post

[This message edited by 2018MLMM at 5:38 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]

Hi 2018

Not sure that this last post of yours was complete. Seems as if something was cut off at the end.

You do realise that through the topics discussed and the discussion itself, you have given her a strong signal that the two of you are working your way to R.

Absolutely noting wrong with that unless, you are still determined to go ahead with the D. In that case you will setting her up for some cruel and unusual punishment, with her clinging to, and working towards a goal that is just a mirage.

If your intention is still firmly set on D. Be kind to her and let her know that all her focus must be on building a new life for her.

In many ways, the meeting went as expected.

Prior to the meeting I set up the dinning room. There was a box of Kleenex, a notebook, pen, and bottle of water at each of our seats, across the table. I also placed VAR in middle of table. I told her I was going to do it and she could get it after I listened to it. This post is me paraphrasing from what I heard from VAR.

Now comes the first shitstorm.... and I should have expected it

From my seat, I see her walking down the stairs. She was dressed up as if we were going on a date, flattering jeans, what was my favorite top, full makeup and hair done.

I just shake my head and put it in my hands. I ask her what she thinks she is doing. Without looking up nor at her again, I ask her to go back upstairs and take off the makeup, put her hair up, and change into a t shirt.

She said “sorry, I just wanted to try to (something inaudible), and went back upstairs.

I went to kitchen a made and quickly drank a rum and coke. When I heard her walk down the stairs more appropriately dressed, I joined her in the dinning room. She apologized again and said she thought I would appreciate her effort. I just stared at her in disbelief.

Ok, I said it was a good idea that we meet to discuss a few things that need to be answered. I told her that I would not tolerate partial truths or lies. I will allow 12 hours after a question is asked and answered to make sure that the whole truth has been given. Failure to tell the complete truth will result in her moving out of the house permanently and zero chance of having any type of relationship. She agreed.

Q - why are you here and answering my questions?

I want to talk to you, answer anything you want to ask about any topic and I hope to lay the foundation to beg you to please take me back

Q- will you be completely honest with me?

Yes

Q- what will you do if your answers will cause me pain?

(Pause) I will answer completely and honestly. I will not trickle truth as that would destroy any hope I have of rebuilding your trust in me.

Q- how much weight have you lost?

Don’t know

Q. What are you eating?

Not hungry, but have eaten some of the food (I) left on the stove after you and daughter have eaten. Thank you for doing that every night

Q. Will you take a lie detector test any time and as often I ask?

Yes

Q- have you had ANY communication with pos or had a person act as intermediator between you two?

A. Last time was Sunday after DDay when he sent a no letter.

Q- what is going to happen to the marriage over the next 6 to 9 months?

I’m going to do everything I can to prove to you that I am sorrier than I have ever been about what I have done to you, to us, our family. I will do anything I can to convince you not to go through with the divorce. But if you want to divorce, we will. (Pause for tears). But I will spend the rest of my life trying to convince you to give me a chance. I know that you have taken off your ring, but I’m never taking off my engagement or wedding ring. The only way I would consider doing it would be if you gave me new ones when we remarry. If never given the opportunity, I will continue to wear them until my death and I want to be buried with them, unless one of the kids or I want them. I talked to a friend that is a lawyer and has decided that not to contest the divorce. Will agree to first offer that comes from your lawyer. I will not make any demands, but will ask for a few things, like wedding album and copies of all family photos. But hopes that it will actually be a post-nuptial agreement.

Q- what is the status of your relationship with the kids?

They hate her and really want nothing to do with her. She has talked to son a few times. He said that any future mother-son relationship is up to me. If I decide to divorce her, he does not expect to see or talk to her ever again. Daughter refuses to talk to her. Whenever she reached out to her, daughter blows up at her. She starts to cry and says that they are both refusing to call her “mom”. Daughter yelled at her that she was no longer her mother as she proved she does not have the qualifications of being a mother

Q- have considered hurting yourself.

Yes, everyday. But read the threads you asked me to on SI and I could never do that to you or the kids. (I told her that all guns and all pocket knifes I could find have been removed from the house)

Q- I know the sex was unprotected. Are you pregnant or have you been pregnant at any time during the last year?

A.( Shocked). No

Q- When should you get your next period?

A. Next Monday

Q- Have you been checked for STD’s?

A. Never thought of it. If you want me to I will make an appointment tomorrow (I do. Told her I’ve been tested already and waiting on results. She said she overheard me making appointment)

Q. Are any of the videos or photos of you online?

A. (Shocked and tears). No, don’t think so

Q. Do you have a plan to try and prevent them being uploaded or if they already are, to have them take them down?

A. I never thought of it, I don’t know. What should I do? (I don’t know but I think you need think about it)

Q. What is current status of your job?

A. Has to go in to school on Friday and be questioned by Asst. Superintendent. Union is suggesting resignation and try to get district to agree to non-disclosure agreemen, so she can find another job. Will submit resignation early next week.

Q. How many times have gone to your counselor?

Went twice last week and once this week with another visit on Friday. Will continue to go twice per near future until counselor decides it should be increased or decreased.

Thus Endeth my questions, then her turn

Now her turn.

Thanked me for taking care of so much, like the kids, leaving bottles of water and vitamins around for her to take, and leaving food out for her.

Q why haven’t I asked about the affair?

I have watched all the videos and feel like I know most of the preliminary answers. She needs to go to more counseling to answer the real questions I have

Q. What does she have to do to get a second chance?

I don’t know you can. But if you can, you need to figure it out without input from me

Q. Do I know that she is sorry?

Sorry that you got caught, yes

Sorry for anything else- no (meltdown)

Alarm went off letting us know that daughter will be home from work soon, so conversation needs to end. She says she just has 2 quick questions.

Q. Can we have another talk like this soon

(Pause) yes. Next one after you’ve seen your counselor 5times.

Q- Can she hug me

No. Not yet

(Why the hell did I say “not yet”?!?!?!)

Don't worry about the "not yet" as I'm sure she'll ask you again, and you can change that to "not yet, maybe not ever" or you can just say no if that's how you feel.

As another poster suggested, if her A is a deal breaker, then let her know.

I realize this will come off as a negative point of view, but when I read this:

But I will spend the rest of my life trying to convince you to give me a chance. I know that you have taken off your ring, but I’m never taking off my engagement or wedding ring. The only way I would consider doing it would be if you gave me new ones when we remarry. If never given the opportunity, I will continue to wear them until my death and I want to be buried with them, unless one of the kids or I want them

my first thought was this--should there be a D, this kind of "grandstanding" statement is likely to change, because time passes, and grand statements like that ...change.

And you're right of course, she's sorry--sorry she got caught...aaand cue the emotional meltdown.

Take care of yourself, 2018.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 3:21 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]

THIS...

"It is about the children and their ability to make sense out of adult behavior when they are very very far from adults themselves. It's about the fact that his WW has done enough to screw those kids up and he, 2018MLMM, is in a position to either help them grow into adulthood with as little damage as possible or, conversely, to damage them further. Those few posters here are asking him to approach from the perspective of the only parent in the mix who can positively affect their outcome.

It is obvious that many people love to hear about a wayward getting what they deserve, I'm no exception. I live vicariously from time to time. But as a mother myself I cannot agree with pulling children into adult situations where they join the betrayed in meting out punishments toward the other parent. It may feel good in the moment but the damage (to the children) will take years to manifest and will probably never be able to be undone." Hardtimesinlife

It just hit me.

She never asked how I was doing or if I’m seeing a counselor

It’s ALL ABOUT HER!

Astute observation 2018

Again, matches my experience so closely.

Can I maybe throw in 2 things for you to think about.

I would recommend that you stay off alcohol completely for at least the period you are navigating your way to a final decision on D or R. Emotions confuse the thinking enough, you dont want the added complication of chemical interference with the clarity of thought process.

Also, I think that your children are older than mine so what we did might not work for you but, I had the Honda Jazz (fit in US) sleeper car project that was a constructive way for us to take our minds of all the hurt, direct pent up energy and create a wonderful bonding space.

I see in what you related about you DS and the beer out of the fridge thing, his searching for something like this. If between all of you you could think of something like this it will do wonders for all of you.

MLM, this:

It just hit me.

She never asked how I was doing or if I’m seeing a counselor

It’s ALL ABOUT HER!

It has been ALL about her for a very long time. Its all she knows, still.

She is in deep. Now in deep regret, questioning herself so hard she does not see a forest in the trees yet.

She won't care about you until a single cell in her body wakes up to remorse. It will take her time. Detach. Breathe. And watch. Once a shred of remorse grows see if she changes. The transformation takes weeks, months.

The 180 is your way through this madness. Follow it as a new life plan.

The roller coaster ride of A recovery is a horrible, yet amazing ride you are about to experience. Be it D or R. You will find yourself stronger, better, less trusting, and dig deeper than anything you have ever experienced before in life.

You've got this.

[This message edited by Used2bhappy10 at 7:47 AM, April 5th, 2018 (Thursday)]

What a tough conversation. I don’t think it’s caring about herself. Or not caring about you. This time period after initial DD is a very hazy place. The wayward went so far beyond who they believed themselves to be. The horrific blow up of unicorn land and then blow up of real life. Your wife has had a great deal of fall-out. You, job, children, friends. Lots of pieces.

The thing is with your wife, and some of the other men on this site wives. They had zero intention of this being a true love affair. Your wife wasn’t going to leave you and children for this guy. This is purely I liked the attention affair. This is an affair that would have eventually stopped. He would have gotten bored and had a new conquest.

I mentioned before—was she beginning menopause' when this started? We see this type of affair often. Great family, great husband. Zero reason to cheat. Common denominator—the children are growing up.

Did you read HTHYSHFYA yet? Another great little PDF book on Linda MacDonald’s website is “Who Will You Become?”. It’s outlines the wayward mindset.

I want you to understand there is no getting over this. We get through it. Big difference.

If you decide to fully divorce...what kind of contentment don you see with this? What type of problems do you foresee?

If your decide to reconcile... what kind of contentment do you see with this? What types of problems do you foresee?

Your wife’s goal is reconciliation. One thing many WH’s talk about is their wife losing the assertive part of their personalities in reconciliation. The WW will twist into a pretzel to accommodate the BH.

I don’t think she realizes all that comes with reconciliation. It’s hard. There isn’t a magic “we are fixed button”.

Your children aren’t young. So neither of you have this reason to attempt reconciliation. Your reasons for attempting would be solely to be in love with your wife. And hers for you.

I am in no way taking up for your wife. I hate cheating because it damages everyone. Look at this scenario and see if this could possibly be in your marriage. You have an interest that you enjoy doing and you enjoy talking about. You talk about it to your wife whenever you have a few minutes and she listens. She is probably bored silly but she loves you so she listens. In the opposite scenario she tries to tell you something of interest to her and you cut her off fairly quickly because what she is saying to you is boring. In most marriages the women are the caretakers of the emotions. They learn Very early that the male ego is so fragile it has to be nurtured. Husbands forget that their wives egos need nurturing as well. Women just want to be heard. They want their interest to mean something to you men. You know for a fact that your wife was never going to leave you for someone 20 years younger. What she got from him was attention. There was a trade off, sex for him, attention for her. Probably nothing awful that you did. You just forgot about her. You forgot that she is an interesting woman with things to say. In long-term marriages we have heard all the stories our spouses tell. The best marriage I know was one of an elderly couple who were so kind to each other that in all their years together their children never heard them raise their voices to each other. Can this can be something as simple as listening. In this era when everybody is talking nonstop, or looking at their phone, playing video games, or any other more interesting focus we forget the person in front of us means the world to us. If we forget it for too long they find someone who thinks they are pretty darn interesting. Could that be your life?

Remember, you question time was cut short. She might have asked about how you are doing. You did quite well.

Sounds like your wife was living two lives. One fantasyland where she had a much younger lover at her beck and call and the other life of a happily married woman with a good job, two great kids, and a loving husband. Totally separate and she did not think one would affect the other.

Then boom - both worlds collide and both are destroyed.

You are right that she is sorry she got caught. That was unthinkable to her. It was so unthinkable that she never even considered it or the consequences of what would happen if she were caught.

You posted that you told the kids that you served her with papers as an attempt to wake her up. OK - she's awake.

The question is what to do now? Do you have a long range plan or are you taking it one step at a time?

I like how you are maintaining control of the narrative between you and her.

As far as her not asking how you are, don't read so much into it. She's still in panic mode. As the situation settles down she will be more introspective and I think you will begin to see her showing more empathy. It is in there, but it is being overwhelmed by the panic and fear.

Give it time.

How is your counseling going, 2018MLMM?

The anger is a wonderful motivator and emotional shield, but not without it's shortcomings and ultimate downside effect. Some guys get divorced and then say "now what?" and are a bit lost at that point.

Some things to work on in IC are charting a new course for your life and helping your kids (and yourself) to begin dealing with the situation productively.

TimSC's post was spot on regarding my WW. Compartmentalization. My WW basically said what TimSC described. Is hard for me to rationalise this in my mind, as I'm sure I wouldn't be able to lead a double life like this.

Great job handling the discussion with your WW 2018. Keep it up!

Great job with the line of questioning. It was impressive.

Understandably you have all written her out of the rhythm of your daily lives. Who wouldn’t after what she has done.

At some point however you might want to gently let her take a small step back in. Not for a while, it’s way too soon. But in a few weeks perhaps after you’ve all had some IC.

What do I mean by that? Perhaps let her cook a meal for you all as an example.

Now before you say “oh hell no”, understand I don’t meant that you all four sit around the table and talk about your day.

In this case she would leave the dinner on the counter for you all to take when you please. If you want to eat with either or both of the kids (if your DS is Home) without her, so be it. But Giving her the chance to contribute in some way can help with all your healing.

Don’t make the kids thank her. If they even eat it that will be enough.

It’s just something to think about for down the line. And it does NOT mean you still shouldn’t divorce her. That’s completely valid to pursue and I wouldn’t ever stop that path.

No, it’s just to give her a small sense of hope. Play it by ear. If you see her really doing hard work, then suggest it. If not, then she doesn’t deserve the gesture.

Keep pointed in this strong direction.

^^^^

.....Or you could practice detaching from her, have her move out, and continue with your current plan.

Working on your anger and acting civil doesn't at all mean bringing her back into your life.

A little distance here is not a bad thing for you.