SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Neanderthal,

Whether you believe it or not, you’re doing just fine.i

Anybody who comes here, my very definition, has baggage that they are carrying around with them.

We all try to be unbiased in this but we all have our baggage dealing with infidelity and potentially divorce. I know that I’m new to this place, but I know that I’m new to this place, but There are definitely people who can fall into the category of BTB ( burn the bitch/bastard ) who Call for immediate divorce under all circumstances, but there are also people who fall into the reconcile at all cost camp. It seems to me that your wife has convinced many people to fall into the reconcile at all cost camp.

You continue to do what you think is best for you. At the end of the day, none of our opinions really matter. The only opinion that matters is yours. You do What You think he’s in the best interest of your daughter and yourself.

Those stages of grief suck!!! But I promise you, you are heading in the right direction, and things will get better eventually. It just takes time. I know it sucks so much! But don’t worry about getting angry and blowing up at people, even here on this site. If people don’t understand what you’re going through at that moment, then they’re not really worth the time of responded to him, in my humble opinion but don’t worry about getting angry and blowing up at people, even here on this site. If people don’t understand what you’re going through at that moment, and they’re not really worth the time of responded to them, in my humble opinion. So in my opinion, feel free to blow up at me if I piss you off or if you just need to Yellit somebody.

Good luck and stay strong.

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 6:37 PM, September 12th (Thursday)]

Vent away Neanderthal, as so many say "take the advise you want, disregard the rest".

I've read your WW posts and as a random internet stranger, I'm not buying she's being truthful. I gave my WW the benefit of doubt too many times, I am even more pessimistic than I was before, which is saying something.

I even gave in to her getting a boob job.

Ah, being badgered into signing off on a non reconstructive boob job is just a classic pastime of BHs isn't it?

I completely understand how you feel. I went back and re-read your first post. It reminded me that there was overlap between when you discovered/suspected/confronted, and when she stopped. During that overlap, she lied, gaslighted, and demurred to your efforts to repair the marriage. Instead, she continued to escalate the A and went on to have sex with him the first time.

For many people, that would be a deal breaker. How can you continue looking at a woman with love, knowing she is capable of and willing to do something like that to you?

During that overlap, she lied, gaslighted, and demurred to your efforts to repair the marriage. Instead, she continued to escalate the A and went on to have sex with him the first time.

Boy, this really says a lot doesn't it. I read it a couple times. In all the talk back and forth between the two threads there are about 50 pages. But this says alot.

If someday she comes clean and says that they didn't just have sex "one time" I could almost maybe get over that, as a stupid CYA.

But not the way she ignored N's concerns to stay with the OM when there was still time to save the marriage...

Hang in there N. You will get thru this.

Neanderthal,

You have to do what’s right for you & your situation,

For what’s it worth I agree with everything you have said, if her actions don’t appear to match her words you can’t reconcile with that.

I must say I have actually lol quite a bit with you’re replies to certain posters with certain statements & observations,

I don’t think you’re venting or being aggressive, just you pointing out they haven’t read enough or haven’t learnt enough about you from your posts.

It’s bizarre how somehow a BS is at fault when reaching their decision.

Congrats on staying sober through this..you are stronger than you think!

I even gave in to her getting a boob job.

Ah, being badgered into signing off on a non reconstructive boob job is just a classic pastime of BHs isn't it?

I know this is anecdotal and completely unscientific but it does seem that way. I did the same thing. She wanted it. I didn't think it was needed but gave in on spending the money and the rest is history. I've seen that before on here. Probably something there for a psychological study.

Re: the boob job.

There is an element to this that I dont think has been addressed on this thread: aside from the infidelity aspect, what she did was incredibly stupid. A teacher having an affair with the father of one of her students. That's like the punchline in that Steve Carrell comedy. So dumb its laughable.

On top of that, your WW knew he was married - and thus by definition a piece of shit - and yet she had unprotected sex with him. Stupid.

Yet I don't believe your WW is a stupid woman. So, what would lead an intelligent woman to do something so stupud.

The boob job might be a clue. Maybe she felt desperate. Maybe, for whatever reason, she had sunk to a place of very low self esteem. I have difficulty reconciling it otherwise.

I agree with GoldenR a few posts back and I join others in finding that those attacks on you are entirely disgusting.

I don't see the WW as R material here.

I am just wondering what your gameplan is from here on out but since she is here, I am sure you can't disclose

[This message edited by Western at 12:47 PM, September 13th (Friday)]

I am a possible BS with some unexplained events from my wife 10-11 years ago involving her last job. But this post isn't about me. I have read both your thread and your WW's thread. I was just going to keep reading your thread and not post but recent revelations by both of you has prompted me to do so.

I find her extremely cold and calculating.

Now you may not have been the best husband and you both were probably spiraling down a path that would have ended up in divorce anyway. IMO, should have ended in divorce. But you did not deserve what she did to you (and I am not talking about the affair).

She should have divorced you instead of doing what she did.

1) Pushed you into buying a new chest. But not to look good and sexy for you. So who?

2) Decided to lose weight. But not to look good and sexy for you. So who?

3) Started working again (IIRC, she was out of work while raising your daughter).

I know you didn't believe your wife was looking to replace you, but her actions before the affair clearly shows that was indeed the case. I didn't even need to go into her actions during the affair.

You see, it is typical for women to change their looks to try and attract a man. She clearly ignored your compliments and attempts at physical intimacy. That is how I know she wasn't doing it for you. A woman who is happy with their husband would have eaten that up and enjoyed some physical intimacy with her husband. This doesn't mean that your wife has had multiple affairs. Just that she had checked out of your marriage long before the affair happened.

Your wife probably also had sex with him alot more than once. His actions (documented by both of you) clearly show that he new how to "play the game" and knew pickup artist (PUA) level tactics. You stated that the OBW knew he was a serial cheater (and the things your wife said about him prove he is PUA). Here is the thing. the guys in the PUA community would not expend as much energy (6 moths worth) if they were not getting laid. There are easier targets (and your wife was an easy target, otherwise he would not have continued to pursue her).

They have a term - the juice aint worth the squeeze. And if after the third date, you still are not banging the girl - move on.

This is why it was so easy for him to let your wife go. It was just sex for him He has or knows he can get more from other women (probably married since they are easier and take less effort than single - per PUA guys). Your wife is an intelligent woman. One that probably never experienced the PUA culture. She thought his future faking "life together" was real. That is why she tested the waters with the blended family.

Then she got caught. Found out he was just in it to hit it. And the life she is so upset that is destroyed was hers. No future with the OM and now she is afraid that she lost you as her fallback plan.

Now I could be wrong about everything. But that would mean your wife is atypical of wives wo decide to and actually lose weight and start working again. But the affair makes that even less likely. The guy may have actually meant to run away with your wife and kid. Again, atypical of a serial cheater who always seam to have the right words to say. However, his actions after you punched him by not wanting to actually talk to your wife again shows that the juice aint worth the squeeze. Your wife may also have only had sex with him once. Again, atypical for someone who was playing house/blended family and professing to be in love with the OM.

No sir, you wife is cold and calculating. Instead of divorcing the drunk and miserable husband you were (Kudos on your sobriety, btw). She chose to slink under your nose to find a "better" man. All the while having you pay for her boob job. Ignoring your compliments. Refusing your attempts at intimacy. Taking your daughter to his to play house. AND continuing to lie to your face that she actually loves you. Her world and plans blew up in her face as the OM turned out to be a dud and she is left scrambling. Your pain means nothing to her.

I am still reading here, and I intended not to reply anymore, but the last post needs to be addressed.

Kiba,

Your post worries me. I'm concerned with how you view women is general, not just my WW.

People do all sorts of things to make them feel more attractive and confident. Most aren't doing it for someone else. That's not healthy behavior, IMHO. Do we enjoy if society takes notice and compliments us? Of course, but it shouldn't be the driving force to better ourselves.

Here's an example of change:

This happened before DDay.

I recently went on a diet, I was overweight. Uncomfortable with myself. It was affecting my job, my relationship with my daughter, and I didn't feel confident. No confidence probably affected my relationship with my wife too.

I lost weight and even got a new haircut. Usually my hair is very traditional, but I got out of my comfort zone and got something different. I felt better about myself, and was becoming more confident (DDay crushed that).

Using your logic, I must have done all that to find another woman. I can assure you that wasn't the case.

I wasn't pushed into buying her anything. She also had a full time job. We had extra money. She and I got new boobs. I got to enjoy them for a bit too. I was out of ideas to boost her self worth and body image issues. So I gave her the ok, even thought she didn't really need it. I don't own her.

She was becoming unhealthy with her weight,. She should have been losing the weight for herself. Not me, or anyone else. A good reason to get healthy, would be to live longer and enjoy her daughter. Did she do it to please others? I don't think so, ill have to ask.

Her going back to work was our decision. Not just hers. While she was pregnant, we had already decided she should stay home until the early school years. She would raise our child. I could afford it, so it seemed like the responsible thing to do. She's a teacher, its perfectly reasonable for her to go back to work when my daughter started school. In fact, I expected it, and was grateful for the financial help.

One thing I do agree with you on. She should have divorced me.

Could I be plan B? yup.

Could she have slept with him dozens of times? yup

Could my pain mean nothing to her? yup

My view of women is just fine actually. I believe in the equality of person. I also know that men and women are different. Different capabilities and different motivators. Men are typically more logical and women are typically more emotional.

I am also not saying that all women are like this or like that. I am saying that it is typical for a woman (per female psychology books) that they tend to work out and get into shape to attract and get attention of males. (side note) You can also go and look at the large number of BHs who posted that their wives started hitting the gym and looking nicer just before or during their affairs (if you are looking for something to quantify that on SI). So a typical woman would do so to get the attention of her husband. However, your wife stated that she ignored your compliments. That leads me to believe she did it for other male attention. Her subsequent affair strengthens my belief that was the case. Of course she could have done it just for herself. That just is not a typical motivator for women.

Also I have no idea what her weight was or is (nor do i need to). I only know that the number that was posted was a considerable amount. that is a big change to her body.

You stated that you gave in to her getting a boob job. I am glad you got to enjoy them. You did say that your bedroom was drying up before the affair and it got worse. I do not believe she cut you off completely, because you had an STI scare. So obviously you were getting intimate.

Her going back to work was our decision. Not just hers. While she was pregnant, we had already decided she should stay home until the early school years. She would raise our child. I could afford it, so it seemed like the responsible thing to do. She's a teacher, its perfectly reasonable for her to go back to work when my daughter started school. In fact, I expected it, and was grateful for the financial help.

Proof that you are in fact a good man. No one is perfect. But we can all be better. When I read your stories, I was hoping you two could work it out. It was the revelations of the weight loss, boob job, and her continued failure to provide you details (she should have given you the phone for recovery immediately and scheduled that polygraph). She is still passing the buck on the phone recovery.

So from my point of view, she did check out of your marriage and looked to leave you. Her actions leading up to this point are very cold towards you. Despite this, you are still defending her to ensure she has a fair shake. You sir are indeed, a good man.

Kiba

I don't really think i'm defending her, more like explaining our specific situation. I'm also glad you elaborated to your original point. I still don't agree with it though.

You can also go and look at the large number of BHs who posted that their wives started hitting the gym and looking nicer just before or during their affairs

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

I'm a pessimist at heart, but even I don't believe most women who cheat are this way.

I think its just as likely a person with insecurities, low self esteem decides to better themselves. So they work to lose weight or whatever, then all of a sudden they get a compliment or some attention from a stranger they haven't heard before (except maybe there husband). And things start to snowball. This is a primitive analogy and its missing some steps but you get the idea.

That seems more likely, then a spouse premeditatively deciding to change themselves physically just to get laid or garner attention from strangers. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just hope its not the norm.

I'm also not trying to minimize what my wife did. She wasn't taken advantage by a predator. She was playing him just as much or more. During the affair she obviously tossed me to the side. I was nothing to her.

Ask me in a few months. Maybe i'll understand better what my wife was/is....the chicken or the egg.

I also agree that she checked out of the marriage. I just don't know when. Another question for her to answer.

I think its just as likely a person with insecurities, low self esteem decides to better themselves. So they work to lose weight or whatever, then all of a sudden they get a compliment or some attention from a stranger they haven't heard before (except maybe there husband). And things start to snowball. This is a primitive analogy and its missing some steps but you get the idea.

We've seen that script here on SI over and over and over.

Neanderthal, one of the signs to watch for to see if a spouse is cheating - you know, when the gut is yelling at you - is changes to appearance, wardrobe, etc.

My WW suddenly decided that she should have her eyebrows shaped and dyed. This was after her and her AP started noticing each other or, more like it, she started noticing that he was noticing her. After her LTA was over the shaping/dying ended. She was doing it for him - be more attractive for him - not for me like I thought it might be.

Shortly after that she got another ear piercing so she could look more "modern" with wearing two sets of ear rings. What did I do? Went and bought diamond studs as a gift. She wore them to his place and motels over the LTA.

One thing that is advised when people are suspecting a spouse of cheating is to look for any changes they are making to themselves all of a sudden. Where they start doing things that they have never brought up before or where their interest suddenly changes for something they never had interest in before.

Anything is possible I suppose but very little of this story makes me think that the WW was thinking of an exit affair. She was caught and while she spent some time in the fog she made a pretty quick decision that she had screwed up and wanted to repair her marriage.

I don't think it really matters at this point because Neanderthal has decided he is going to divorce. But I still think it is a reach to say she was having an exit affair. People who do that behave very differently when caught, imo. That is the differentiator. You can look at many different affairs and make the assumption it was an exit affair but when the rubber meets the road and the spotlight comes on to the affair how the Wayward acts at that point seems to be the key decider. The affair is a fantasy world so you can see things and assume that the Wayward wants that to be there reality moving forward. But I think most Affairs are not really exit affairs. They are an interim Escape into Fantasy Land where the wayward's broken needs are getting met by the affair.

Of course like many Affairs, this one ends up being an exit from the Betrayed spouse.

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:21 AM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

I agree that few of the "exit" affairs are really exit affairs. JMO. The WS might think it is until caught and then, suddenly, they go into damage control mode. I know some leave when discovered and some leave and the discovery occurs later. But (and this is a generalization) I think few are really exit affairs at the beginning or at the end. While in lurve the possibility (fantasy) might be there.

Does it matter, Neanderthal, if it was an exit affair or not. She was screwing another man. Exit affair or not that is what she was doing. The question is really if you think there is enough there from her to make an attempt at R possible.

I think you've decided to D. That is your decision to make and you have. You can also change your mind. Still your choice based on what you know. I would lean toward D but don't walk in your shoes.

BW here.

What some of you fellas don't know about women is A LOT. I've done a ton of shit in my life that was "different" : returning to school. Changing jobs. Losing weight. Starting new hobbies. Finding new friends. Drinking too much. Not drinking. Wearing sexy clothes. Wearing dowdy clothes. Coloring my hair. Gaining weight. The list is ENDLESS.

Yet never - EVER - did I consider cheating.

But I did this shit (oh and I got eyeliner tattooed too), and from the looks of some of these posts, it seems I must be a cold calculating bitch of a betrayed wife.

Why not just say say - ya know, my wife was breathing and then I found out she cheated, so that must have been the sign?

Neanderthal clearly - and painfully - knows that cheaters lie. Give the man a fucking break.

I agree with GMC... I change my appearance and wardrobe all the time. Except skinny jeans...I never tried those.

Anyway, my weight changes, my fitness level changes, my attitude changes with any hormonal tide. So I don’t think that is a huge predictor unless combined with other things like losing a bunch of weight and staying out all night (without you.) Something along those lines.

I do think it can be part of the equation, though. When my husband went through a CrossFit phase, the first thing I thought of was that there was some chippy in the class. There wasn’t, she was at his work. But now they had CrossFit in common...go figure.

[This message edited by Hg65 at 11:34 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]