SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TTA,

you said this

"She wants to do the polygraoh like YESTERDAY. I want it done by the BEST place we can find. Her normal response by the way. Remember, her normal mode of operation is run right through the wall so it does not surprise me she wants to proceed at warp speed. I want her to fully understand that getting this done does NOT make it ALL RIGHT."

I say this

I like your mode of thinking. A polygraph and all forgiveness isn't grounds for rugsweeping so now I think your head is definitely in the right place. Good for you !!

BTW. I understand the need to get it done by 'the best' and that's a good call IMO. A very good call.

Let me suggest this if I can. Get two and don't let her know about the second. The first takes place in Mid February. This gives you more time in case something falls through. Your list of questions get some answers. Then follow through with a second that is unexpected for her (not advanced notice but not 'no' notice either) in March after the meeting. If she is eager to get the tests done, there should be no resistance.

Therefore, you will know both before and after the meeting what has transpired.

Just my opinion but it's your feeling safe in your relationship that matters the most.

Mindblown, I agree

Re: the toxic co-workers, another good reason to leave there. Not a big deal I guess, she can find toxic co-workers wherever she goes, but you know my outlook is that all things related to the affair must go, if she wanted to keep those things she shouldn't have tainted them with the affair.

Re: toxic non-work girlfriend, if this girlfriend encouraged affair, she must go, too, in my opinion. That's how I feel.

Really, though it's very simple: If she passes the poly, then this was a one-off, ONE bad decision, not a pattern of behavior. If she fails the poly on past other affairs, in my opinion, not good. That is really the only question I would care about at this time, did she have other affairs in the past?

Re: your analysis on the three threads, yours, Space, and Walloped, there were the same type of posts as yours, that is part and parcel of a forum like this, in my opinion it is a good thing to hear the many different opinions. I never learned anything from people who agreed with me, the ones who disagree can be annoying but maybe I will learn something (or not, maybe just annoying), but this is maybe why it is called a "forum - a medium of open discussion or expression of ideas."

I have a different analysis of Space vs. Walloped vs. your wife, but the main difference is that theirs is resolved and yours is not, but it is of no importance for you. To compare other people's threads are relevant only because the behavior of cheating is so darn predictable. The cheaters deceive and hide, then when found out try to lie and continue to hide some more, then some claim to be truthful. Same in all three. Same in mine, same on practically everybody on here, same in the world ever have been and ever will be, that is the behavior of cheating.

If your wife passes the poly, you can move forward to work the marriage, if not, then you can't save the marriage yet, maybe you want to divorce. Until the poly, it's just limbo land, treading water, you might as well enjoy the sex and fun if you can and assume the best. Nothing wrong with that.

Just some random tidbits...

TTA, you wrote in your analysis of Mrs. SG

Yet somehow, a few of the folks seem to think she is a great candidate for R ??? WHY??

Because the evidence points to her realizing she royally f$%#-ed up and won't do it again. She'd be a good spouse going forward. To R with her, though, you'd have to be able to live with the past. That's on the BS to be able to deal with or not., and it can be a big shit sandwich to have to gnaw on.

Western, my friend, I respect your posts and wasn't targeting you at all. All of you guys. I probably do have some leftover response from other threads.

On mind movies, I guess one important thing for a BS to understand is that the "memories" will always be there for you when you want them. Always. R doesn't mean that when you "pull them off the shelf" to play, that they are now harmless and amusing, or at least boring. They will always be weaponized. So if you are waiting for them to go away of their own accord, as if you are possessed by some demon that plays them without your choosing, you will be waiting a long, long time. Instead, you will have to choose to not engage with them, actively. A choice. Yours. Nobody plays them for you...you own your head. And yet it can a struggle. A real struggle, in that don't diminish its difficulty.

Importantly, I put the quotes around "memories" and "pull them off the shelf" because you should know that 99.9% of whatever plays in your head is an invention of yours. You weren't there. You don't actually know what happened. Yet you will visualize something in complete detail. It is a lie, what you construct. You are the writer, director, and producer of the movies, not the projector operator. If someone else is telling you what happened, they are being the scriptwriter. They weren't there and neither were you, so it is in fact a fiction. Remember that. In your mind movies you are making s$%# up that then causes your own suffering. That's a head-scratcher, isn't it?

I'm not an R or D guy. I have my thoughts on what I'd do, but I keep them to myself. I will say if you are committed to R, then commit to R. As a navy pilot, there were a couple of times coming aboard the carrier where I thought, "Hmmm, might not make this one." But then you commit totally, not spending any time thinking about ejecting instead of trying to land once you've made the decision. The time to decide is behind you, the time to act is in front.

Best of luck, TTA. Full speed ahead!

OK I get it - your wife is "better" than Mrs SpaceGhost and Mrs Walloped! Great for you I guess.

I, for one, did not think either should have reconciled.

But you are comparing the wrong parts of this. What I would compare is how each BS has dealt with it and how you have dealt with it. Not saying that you are wrong as to each their own.

SpaceGhost acted decisively and did not rug sweep anything.

You on the other hand seem to be trying to explain to all how it really isn't as bad as we all think and, in my opinion, are downplaying what your wife's attitude was at being caught. And that's your perogative.

Stretch has, as I have said before, very eloquently said what I have attempted to in the past - go in with your eyes open, understand her for what she is and then decide to R or not.

Apart from some of the justification, you appear to be doing the right thing for you so good luck!

Wk55

No toxic co workers . Think you misunderstood . I thought most toxic peers were her one girlfriend and maybe one or two others . Not the case

She belongs to a few business groups of women execs and has gone on "retreats" for week ends . That is where the "it's ok to have someone the side " was seen first hand . That is no excuse for her decision but she actually saw other women inviting their boyfriends while their husbands were clueless at home. This shit is apparently more common than we clueless guys want to know or believe. This behaving like what their stereotypes of men are. Still no excuse

""Really, though it's very simple: If she passes the poly, then this was a one-off, ONE bad decision, not a pattern of behavior. If she fails the poly on past other affairs, in my opinion, not good. That is really the only question I would care about at this time, did she have other affairs in the past?""

The above quote is exactly the way I feel right now. You hit that on head .

I also agree with your statement that all three wives cheating had some of th same components . My only point was if that is the case how some could recommend R for the two others and D for me . Does not matter . Like you said everyone has their own opinion

This shit is apparently more common than we clueless guys want to know or believe. This behaving like what their stereotypes of men are.

I had an annual conference mid-week for about 10 straight years. I went alone, my wife stayed home with the kids, but there was a guy who always brought his wife. Every year. Good for them, I thought, and how in love, so much affection, holding hands, very attentive to each other, etc.

One day the guy received an award, I was invited to the ceremony, and I attended. His wife was there. And his kids. Guess what? That's right, not the same woman as at the conference every year.

SpaceGhost acted decisively and did not rug sweep anything.

SpaceGhost did not want the entire truth, he did not want to talk to his wife about what happened and he had no intention from day 1 to ever R.

Divorce was his only thought and he acted on that one thought, plain and simple.

and there's nothing wrong with that Craig.

SG had boundaries. She knew clearly what they were and she violated them in the worst way. Her loss, not his.

Craig

Yup, he sure did act decisively and stuck to his guns DESPITE probably 300 posts telling him how crazy he was not to take her back .

Man of La Mancha

We differ again . I don't call acting decisively putting up with it for over six months when the following occurred

(1) caught he on find my phone after getting suspicious 200 miles from home in hotel. Accepted the bull shit excuse

(2) found lingerie hanging in bathroom that he had never seen before and again accepted the bull shit excuse

(3) tells her he does not like her snatch shaved and questions her three times on if she is having a a affair

(4) and after all that goes by finally hires a PI and the. Waits another month gets his exit plan together

All of that was done BEFORE the first word was posted here I believe . Strength of conviction absolutely . Not my idea of decisive , maybe yours . He allowed it to go on when he knew what was happening .

And please stop using your opinion as "how we all think" because your tone and opinion is valid for you but certainly not what all of anyone thinks .

And yes , if my wife passes the polygraph test , and as WK55 said it is proven this was a one off , as shitty as it is it could have been worse .

And back one more minute to Space Ghost. He stated infidelity was a deal breaker for him . Most of us would state that . What we will never have any way of knowing is what really would have happened if the first time he caught her in the hotel if she had done the same thing as when she was served and collapsed and begged for mercy . But she didn't .

If she had , you nor I will ever know if he would have still stuck to his guns .

My wife's attitude when caught sucked . But would it have been better for her to have kept her mouth shut , gone underground and provided me with a false R that we see in abundance here . Yes I would rather have had her blurt out whatever came out of her mouth and deal with it head on .

HOP

Yup. It's full speed ahead to get the truth and the. Deal with whatever it is

Most of the time, if not the vast majority of the time, the very WORST description of the WS behavior with the AP is a necessary "evil" (as opposed to the also NECESSARY, but not "evil" view of the WS brought up by R proponents to expose the BS to).....especially when the BS is a BH (as the sex is more problematic for BH's). Because..... it is going to COME AT THEM in the near future from answered questions by the WW and will be re-played via Mind Movies innumerable times over the next few years. This initial "testing" is NECESSARY so that the ones (BH's) who won't be able to stand it while trying to R will REALIZE that reaction in them early and avoid the agonizing process that will break both spouses hearts, waste years, and ultimately result in a failed R .......with or without D (failed R without D WILL be the worst possible conclusion for both of them). stretch

Perfect narrative for the difference between the way BH & BW process the sexual component of their partners cheating. I don't understand these feelings from a BW point of view and I don't believe a BW can understand the point of view of a BH. It's possible they can give good advice to each other on a host of other infidelity issues, but not the sexual component.

TTA: Full-on rationalization of her affair and vigorous defense of the WW's actions since d-day are nearly universal reactions by a BH a few weeks into R. Every one of them believes their WW and circumstances are "different" - I hope yours actually are.

Man of La Mancha

We differ again . I don't call acting decisively putting up with it for over six months when the following occurred

(1) caught he on find my phone after getting suspicious 200 miles from home in hotel. Accepted the bull shit excuse

(2) found lingerie hanging in bathroom that he had never seen before and again accepted the bull shit excuse

(3) tells her he does not like her snatch shaved and questions her three times on if she is having a a affair

(4) and after all that goes by finally hires a PI and the. Waits another month gets his exit plan together

Timetoact

It doesn’t really matter but try as I might I just can’t let this go.

SpaceGhost was away on a business trip and his wife didn’t answer her phone. He finds that she was 200 miles away at a hotel. He gets home a day early, finds lingerie hanging in the laundry room that he’s never seen and his wife is shaved in a way neither of them like. But she is acting completely normal and very loving.

The two didn’t add up so he laid a trap to be 100% sure. He said he was going to be away a week longer than normal next time, put a VAR under the seat of her car and hired a PI.

SpaceGhost did NOT accept any "bull shit" excuses. Initially this was because his wife didn't give any. She didn't give any because he didn't confront her. He didn't confront her because he didn't want to warn her to be more careful.

Only when he had irrefutable proof did he tell his wife of his suspicions and give her a chance to come clean. Unlike most husbands he didn't spill his guts and allow his wife to make up the least damaging story that fit. He held the PI information back to test her. She failed the test.

This is when she made her "bull shit" excuses but he knew for a fact (he had photos) that they were 100% "bull shit." He never accepted them.

He had a VAR in place when his wife called the OM and her girlfriend in a panic because SpaceGhost might be on to her. They tell her to say that there is no affair and to stick to her story no matter what because he has no proof.

He hears her tell the OM that the affair is over and he’s not worth risking her marriage. The OM tells her he loves her and she doesn’t say it back. Most BHs have to accept their cheating wife’s word for this but SpaceGhost got information he could trust.

He had photos that totally nuked the OM who was swearing up and down that SpaceGhost was a crazy guy that beat his wife.

SpaceGhost wanted to dispatch his wife with extreme prejudice at her workplace, the place he felt that she and her boss were making a fool of him. It took time to get the divorce papers ready to file and he did suffer greatly. But it takes time and sometimes suffering for a sniper to get into position.

You say that SpaceGhost wasn’t decisive? He was a Fu@king assassin.

EDIT:

[This message edited by Graywolf at 8:21 AM, February 16th (Tuesday)]

Thanks Graywolf - and that my friends is how its done. SpaceGhost got his ducks in a row and then obliterated the cheater.

TTA, I don't know what you mean by using my tone to say what everyone is thinking - where have I done that ? I specifically say that this is what I am thinking.

I really hope that you find that this is all there is to it and her attitude at the time of discovery was just a lapse in judgement or whatever. I hope that your R goes well and you live happily ever after.

However, you are behaving very defensively as if what I say is a personal attack on you or something. Not the case. You love your wife - I get it. One should love one's wife - especially if they are planning to stay with them.

And if it turns out that this wasn't her only rodeo then I believe that you will do what is best for you.

So good luck!

We are ALL so different. A few things. Point : TTA Keep Pick's Disease on a note card. It is a bizarre dementia, where the intellect and muscular coordination may not deteriorate for 20 years after the first signs which generally are destruction of neurons of the brain which are the SEAT OF EMPATHY. It is incredible that such a human faculty as empathy should be singled out by a disease. I always think of the classic movie and its re-makes "Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers"....where the replicas are almost human but lack this most human of traits (empathy is only seen in humans and a handful of higher animals exclusively mammals but also interestingly in a few birds). The second tragedy of this disease can be the understandable abandonment of the cheating spouse when they literally could no longer prevent their infidelity. Eventually they go into a slow but progressive mental and physical decline.

Point : Statistics when applied to your case lose much of their value as your now fWW will either be true going forward or not....so stats only can help prepare you for the possible outcome. There are WW within the stats that WILL NOT CHEAT AGAIN....we just don't know just now who they are. But going forward you CAN become more knowledgeable where your wife stands. Let's assume here this was a first, as she strongly is representing. In IC she needs to understand and then share with you her introspection on WHY she became OK with the typical and cliched male attitude dynamic toward extramarital sex....(I really think this 'why' is most important because I believe the WHY she did it....IS she adopted that ATTITUDE)....you confirmed this dynamic a couple posts back and she took steps to remove herself from it. By the way, this ALONE, is enough to explain her bizarre request to you to let her continue in the infidelity. In time, a question to pose to her, and to repeat to her from time to time is...... : ask her how she FEELS NOW about that attitude she held then. Your job is to look for falseness in her answers over time. A test is it should in time ALWAYS be followed by her recollection of the pain she caused you....then followed by her expressions of real remorse for what she inflicted on you. Use the question sparingly over the years ahead but don't forget it.....as her response, if she begins to backslide can tip you off early to a developing problem. If she responds with, "Just get over it already".......you'r in trouble.

Point : Spaceghost never cared to stop his wife's infidelity.....this greatly differed from you and Walloped. Spaceghost KNEW if she was cheating it was over.....so taking his time to be sure meant nothing other than confirmation to be followed by his vengeance. Yet he clearly loved his wife despite his planning and very much wanted to punish her as prior posts have pointed out. While like Spaceghost, in that infidelity was an absolute deal breaker for me......I never wanted any revenge. Instead I struggled greatly with the loss only in the pain it caused my fiancee. I didn't want to lose her but KNEW I couldn't stay. We are all so different. stretch

I agree with Graywolf. He handled his situation like Chris Kyle in Ramadi.

He conquered and destroyed. His WW lost big time there

SG situation has nothing to do with TTA actually.

Second reason to take my time is if I do this at end of February, what the hell do I do about insuring I get the truth about the upcoming March meeting that they both have to attend.

Since you are unsure of what might happen at this meeting, you have to have her take the polygraph after this meeting.

It is bothering you if you have her take it in Feb. Since it is bothering now, it will always bother you. So do the polygraph after this trip.

You say she does things at warp speed, could she also want this polygraph now before the meeting?

Spaceghost never cared to stop his wife's infidelity.

stretch

The above is true. SpaceGhost had very strong circumstantial evidence that his wife had sex at least one time with another man. That was enough for him to divorce. Hiring the PI was just for conformation before he took any action.

However I think that it’s smart to follow parts of his example even if you want to stop the affair and R.

1. Don’t confront with circumstantial evidence that can be explained away.

2. Keep your mouth shut and investigate.

3. When you do confront don't reveal all that you know or how you know.

4. When you do confront have monitoring devices in place to capture communication between her, her friends and the OM.

The problem with the above is when you think that they haven’t had sex but are about to. What do you do then? If they’ve already had sex then does one more time really matter?

[This message edited by Graywolf at 11:30 AM, February 16th (Tuesday)]

empathy is only seen in humans and a handful of higher animals exclusively mammals but also interestingly in a few birds

I think the "empathy gene" varies from person to person, whether you are the WS or the BS - some have more, some have less, some lose it, and gain it back, and some have none at all.

that is why every case is so different, and can't be compared to others. Suggestions, advice and encouragement are great, but the end of the day it is up to each individual, their gut feeling, their amount of empathy, that will decide on what is best for their circumstance...

[This message edited by downintx at 2:48 PM, February 16th (Tuesday)]

Point : Statistics when applied to your case lose much of their value as your now fWW will either be true going forward or not....so stats only can help prepare you for the possible outcome. There are WW within the stats that WILL NOT CHEAT AGAIN....we just don't know just now who they are. But going forward you CAN become more knowledgeable where your wife stands. Let's assume here this was a first, as she strongly is representing. In IC she needs to understand and then share with you her introspection on WHY she became OK with the typical and cliched male attitude dynamic toward extramarital sex....(I really think this 'why' is most important because I believe the WHY she did it....IS she adopted that ATTITUDE)....you confirmed this dynamic a couple posts back and she took steps to remove herself from it. By the way, this ALONE, is enough to explain her bizarre request to you to let her continue in the infidelity. In time, a question to pose to her, and to repeat to her from time to time is...... : ask her how she FEELS NOW about that attitude she held then. Your job is to look for falseness in her answers over time. A test is it should in time ALWAYS be followed by her recollection of the pain she caused you....then followed by her expressions of real remorse for what she inflicted on you. Use the question sparingly over the years ahead but don't forget it.....as her response, if she begins to backslide can tip you off early to a developing problem. If she responds with,o "Just get over it already".......you'r in truble.

Stretch, the above is good, and I can assure you if I hear "Just get over it already"...that I will not need any more advice.

I'm hearing a lot of I'm sorry, which I am sure is not an original statement to anyone.

A lot of what you have remarked on has been about WW. How about me????

I have a question that I do not have the answer for. I have thoughts of an answer but my questions is

Why am I not a walking "basket case" like so many of the BH who arrive here. I only had to take some meds a few days, after some good old fashioned yelling I am not throwing things at the walls or WW. After one night out of house, why did I not make her leave again and just had her stay in another bedroom. I am not cursing at her daily. I am not having mind movies that prohibit me from functioning sexually with her ( not yet anyway).

Now please do NOT misinterpret. I am NOT a happy camper at what she did, but I like so many others, have not held on to the one time and its over statement that most of us make or think.

I have my own theory but I want to hear yours if you have time. No, I do not have a "cuckold" fantasy. i want no part of an open marriage so if any of you want to spit that stupidity out save your breath.

Craig,

I understand your comment about waiting till after meeting to do the polygraph. i can do that but I'll be wondering for another month or more and quite honestly, I think there is as close to zero percent chance of anything happening at this meeting as could be possible.

Now, having said that, unless I want to be in total Disneyland, there is no way that she will be in a relatively small group of people for two days and be able to totally avoid OM. They were very careful not to attract attention but they did not refuse to talk to one another. Totally ignoring him might even set off some red flags with the group and how the hell would i know that anyway. So I am inclined right now to do it before the meeting, and remember the OM wife is not clueless here anymore either and I have it from her in writing that he is busting his ass to make things right with her.

She knows this polygraph thing is probably not going to be a one time only thing and she is fine with that. She wants to get this one done so at least she can tell me and have me believe she was telling the truth about it never happening before. I now have potential dates for it to be done.

if it turns out that my wife has been banging guys on the road, why do i give a shit if she talks to him at meeting??????

TTA said this

"I have my own theory but I want to hear yours if you have time. No, I do not have a "cuckold" fantasy. i want no part of an open marriage so if any of you want to spit that stupidity out save your breath. "

I say I AGREE 100%. Anyone suggesting this would be contributing to the further deterioration of the marriage as open marriages don't jive with that TTA wanted or wants. Plus I think they defeat the true purpose of marriage.

Glad to see that you and I agree here TTA. Shows good moral character in you

Just be careful. You said in a previous post that you keep asking WW if that's what she wants (open marriage) and she keeps saying NO, which is a good answer - the only answer. But by keeping asking it, are you planting a seed that you don't want to ? And what happens in a fit of anger if one day she snaps and says 'yes' ? (not that i think she will.) I just would never utter those words. I ban them from my household