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Tornapt,

Once again, I am so sorry for your pain. Your thoughts on working things out are noble, but the road will be difficult.I wish you luck and the strength to make it through.

Remember though, as others have often said....you and your children come first. It is good that you are already thinking out "Plan B", as it will help to have some idea of alternate choices should things prove to be just too difficult.

I'd like to say more, but truthfully this subject is just too painful sometimes, regardless of where we are in our timeline of healing.

Take a deep breath and try to find your comfort zone with all that you are dealing with, then go where your heart tells you.

Just want to respond with an update. Hope it helps. 10 months ago OC was born. Ever since then OW has been very vicious in her attacks against my H. She is angry she lost! She didn't get the man.

Her attacks have been many and each one worst than before. Now it is at a point of criminal behavior on her part. Federal investagators are opening a case on her.

And through it all, my H has awakened to what kind of person this OW really was before he ever got involved with her. She had been hiding her true self with him.

Now it is at a point of getting a protection order against her. My H's concerns are what will happen to the baby if she goes to jail.

My response to that is what about me and my child. And she needs to manage her behavior so she doesn't end up in jail having to worry about what happens to her daughter.

Oh I forgot to say that, she called my H BEFORE she engaged in the criminal act against him to tell him , I know that you can have me brought up on charges but if you do then you are just going to be hurting the baby. Then she proceeded on in engaging in a criminal act against him later that day.

He actually had worries about holding her responsible because of what may happen to the baby. Which of course was put in his mind by her pre-warning phone call.

I pushed hard to go forward with sending her on her way to the punishment she deserves. I also let my H know that he wasn't going to lift a finger to do anything extra for her other than what the court ordered.

And she isn't getting out of this one. She knows how to manipulate the hell out of people except me. I am fully focused on making her be 100% responsible for TAKING CARE OF THE BABY SHE PLANNED TO HAVE BY MY HUSBAND. She will take care of it, not him. She will handle all the worries and frustration that comes with being a single mother and having no assistance from the father, other than the court ordered child support.

We are paying a high price for this OC. A price that includes an emotionally hurt child (our child), significant financial loss, a truly troubled marriage, loss of peace of mind, and because of her criminal nature, loss of safety.

I dare say that any woman who allows herself to get pregnant by another woman's husband is no where near

reasonable.

[This message edited by icando at 12:38 AM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

icando:

I just saw where we have the same D-Day one year apart. Let's keep that in mind when next January rolls around. I'm not sure how I'll deal with it. Right now, there are three dates that are foremost in my mind: anniversary, Christmas (no reason, just because)and 1/10.

Seems silly.....how the A restructures our life.

"I dare say that any woman who allows herself to get pregnant by another woman's husband is no where near

reasonable"

icando--this is so true!! We as BS's are supposed to be sooo reasonable in accepting the situation but the OW can be as hysterical as she wants and because she is the mother of a baby who might "be hurt" by something or another, it's her way or the highway. And it's CONSTANT grief and negotiation when we make clear that it's got to involve all parties when decisions are made. What a lousy journey.

Still trying to negoiate my first meeting with OC next week--getting down to the wire and it's still up in the air in my opinion whether anything will really work out. If she bails, she doesn't seem to get that my H will not be available to be a father to her baby unless I am included and she is not part of the visitation--I've said it before, but this child has one family with her and a second family with his father and his father's wife!

Feeling like the scab that was forming a little over all this is ripped open again.

torn-- I just replied to your post on general. I would seriously go ahead with the dna test now. We waited 6 months and I have to tell you that was the worst 6 months of my life. I was constantly thinking about it and wondering how we would tell our child. It took a month to get the results back. Turned out, my H was NOT the father. The lab did the test twice. OW is still saying that the results are wrong and that he is the father.

I am sorry that you are in this situation. I am sorry that anyone has to go through this on top of dealing with an A.

Hugs to all of ya'll!!!

WS got PO against OW. The court ordered it for a year. No contact whatsoever!

There is a GOD!

Torn,

I hope everything is ok with you.

[This message edited by icando at 11:50 PM, June 25th (Sunday)]

Things are horrible! I am feeling so sick and depressed. He went to see OC last night after work around 11:00 pm and said he'd be home around midnight. He didn't get here until 12:30. I was so pissed off and hurt that he didn't respect my feelings and take into consideration how hard this was on me and have the decency to come home when he said he would. I just went nuts on him and when he just brushed me off and didn't want to to talk, I told him to pack up and leave. At that moment I thought I meant it and felt that way. I went and started packing for him and goating him on until he came back there and started packing for himself. Then I freaked and panicked and started backstepping like a weakling. It turned into a huge brawl with him wanting to leave and me not wanting him to.

Why did I do that? I felt so stupid, humiliated and weak for that. I just let him know that he has all the power. That I'm not strong enough to stand my ground and demand better treatment from him and respect for my feelings.

I am so sad now. I feel like if I really want him to go.....he will. He's not going to fight for me or our family. I KNOW that I should let him go. I KNOW that....but how do I find the strength to do it?

How long do I just keep accepting that he cares nothing for my feelings? Why do I keep on doing this to myself?

I'm just praying for the Lord to take this burden and deal with it for me or give me the strength and understanding to know what I should do.

I mean how do you decide to give up? How do you decide to let go of your family and your life and your dreams? How can someone do that? How can I do that?

I need your prayers.

Torn,

Just know that I am praying for you. I understand what you are going through.

Actually what you view as weakness, the incident of you not wanting him to leave is strength. You were the only one between the two of you who tried to do something to keep your family from falling apart.

I had to establish very strong boundaries with my H, regarding this issue. The last thing that I could stand is him going over to the OW's house so the two of them could be together with the baby. I couldn't accept that.

Recently my H has/had been feeling the effects of NC with OW and OC. But that is the price that he chose to pay to stay in his marriage. My rule is that the only way WE will have the child in our home is if the FOW is 100% out of the picture (like loses custody) or if she dies.

I have been through enough. I am not going to put up with another damn thing.

tornapt,

You are acting the way you are because you feel the way you do. You are what your name suggests. Many in this forum suggest not making any radical decisions until some time has passed (generally a year or so). Generally, I think that is good advice, but not if you are being ripped apart in the process because then there is no healing.

Do you have any family members/friends that live nearby? If so, perhaps you could temporarily remove yourself from the situation in order to give your head time to clear and get a little perspective on it.

You would have to explain to your H that it is what YOU need to do; don't get sucked into an accusatory arguement or put yourself into the position of having to be defensive. This is hard for me to write, because I really feel and understand your pain and frustration.

Can you get yourself into IC? I never had to resort to counseling until this happened to me. I am a strong person and usually able to deal with my own problems. In counseling though, I am learning how to heal myself yet understand those things that are not mine to heal. In otherwords, how to be happy with the things I can change and accept the things I can not.

Your husband comes across as incredibly insensitive. I'd like to smack him upside the head for you but I'm sure there is already a line of people on this thread ahead of me in that line!

Take a deep breath, try to collect your thoughts (even if it involves getting away for a few days), and try to concentrate on YOU. At the moment, it appears you can not change your husband. Perhaps he is in "the fog", and can not see what this is doing to you.

At some point you will come to terms with what you are and are not willing to tolerate. If you allow yourself this time for your thoughts and emotions to clear you will be in a better position to make the decision on how you are going to proceed.

I am hoping that you can set some boundaries with your husband NOW, that he will accept them or at least consider them, and that from there you will discover that you are not completely powerless in this situation.

PM me if you wish. I care.

I am in IC and have been since DDay. I have a wonderful support system of friends and family. And while at first I was ashamed and embarrased to tell them this whole ugly story......they pretty much all know it now.

My IC tells me the same things people here do. That only I can decide when enough is enough. She too says that when I reach that point I will know it. She doesn't want me to make any huge decisions or push out WH out of anger, hurt or in an attempt to threaten him. Which is basically what I've been doing. It just sucks that he knows that.

I definitely think WH is still in the fog. I think this OC just makes that worse. Did you all catch that it was a girl? We have two boys and I always wanted a girl so badly and now this bitch has one. WH never cared to have a girl, didn't really want one, but hoped we'd have one the second time around for my sake. I think now that she's here, it will tug on his heart strings not to be a full time parent to her.

I think if/when he decides to push the visitation issue, OW is going to get REALLY ugly. I don't know that he will be able to stand up to that and fight for us against her. I think he may cave.

It all just sucks so bad! I hear so often to wait a year before making any big decisions,but then others keep saying......knock him off the fence,kick him out, etc etc etc......

It is just so hard to do that. I do KNOW that i probably should, but I just hate to give up. I don't want to look back with any regrets and wish I had done anything differently. I guess that could go either way.

Torn,

I agree with you about how hard it is to make a decision. But you never have to be ashamed about your love and commitment for your family. Your husband is an integral part of your family. Even though he has damaged the family through his complete and utter selfishness, it would cause even more damage if he ceased being a part of it. Particularly because you have children.

So you never have to be ashamed or feel bad for being 'Torn'. You just are what you are. Make no apologies for it. If it weren't for him you wouldn't be torn.

Try not to worry what will happen if OW starts putting pressure on him. Just make up your mind what you will do about it.

Continue to fight for your marriage until you get tired of fighting for it. Most importantly, never compromise on your values or your own sense of self and self-respect. You don't have to justify or explain how and what you feel about OW & OC.

You didn't sign up for this when you got married. No where was it written that you, the wife, would have to plan for and sacrifice life for your H's indescretions and children conceived outside your marriage.

torn,

I know *exactly* how you feel wrt to the OC being a girl, and for all the same reasons. It was the second question I asked H after learning of this situation.

I was somehow relieved (if such a word exists in this kind of situation) to learn it was a boy.

Take care; I'll be thinking of you.

Hello everyone...I wish I didn't have to be here, no offense to any of you...but thank God you guys are here. I left a post on the general forum earlier today not knowing that this one existed, but some kind folks sent me your way and it feels as though a huge weight have been lifted off my shoulders b/c it's good to know that I am not alone. I will not repeat my sad story b/c it's long and its in the general forum. The brief version:

D-Day 4/24/06...his ONS was 1.5 yrs ago and the OW did not contact him till 12/05 and paternity was confirmed in April...I only knew of the ONS when DNA confirmd it was his. He is paying CS and says that he has to have some minimal role in this childs life.

As some of you mentioned...there is a part of me that would love nothing more than to send money and have nothing to do with them! But I don't think he could live w/himself if he did that. Funny how they refuse to be dead-beat dads but they were willing to be cheating bastards..I dont get it..(sorry if i sound bitter).

She was a ONS and they really know nothing about each other..she did work before having the baby but doesn't work now and is living on assistance. He sends CS and sees OC on Thurs from 5-9. She says that its not really about the $$ and she just wanted her son to know his father..thats a load a crap b/c she didn't give the father a damn choice when she found out she was pregnant! He has asked her about getting a job and she said that she is thinking about going back part-time soon...another load of crap. What pisses me off is that this low-life may never have to work..in the world she comes from she would probably be content on living off of the CS. It is sooo damn frustrating!!

Last week she called b/c she wanted to swap nights w/ us. It was her b-day and she wanted to go out w/ friends and so asked if we could take the OC on Fri and keep him overnight...he tries to convince me and to some level of rationale i know it was asking too much..but it i'm sure it was just the beginning. He pitched his case..we didn't have anything planned Fri night so what was the big dieal...plus we should accomodate her to keep things civil and in the future if we wanted to swap she'd be willing?! WTF..there goes the rest of my life..i'm going to now have to tip toe around this stupid whore?! Damn her! Damn them both!! Anyways...I was suppose to be away on business but he asked me to reschedule..since he said it would be better if we experienced this together...I guess I was atleast grateful for that consideration.

The things that hurt most is something they, WS, will never understand. It's fear of the bond that they may create w/this child born out of a foolish drunken night. I know these are stupid selfish questions...but what if he loves that child more than ours? What if when push comes to shove he choices the OC? Will I have to spend the rest of my life and subject my children (we dont have any now) to always having to share him with this OC and that slut? What the hell was she thinking?!!

Arghh...I am sooo frustrated. The rational side of me says to leave him...but why is it so damn hard?!

crazed:

When you have the time, read through this thread. There is a lot of practical advice contained in it (along with a lot of venting, hurt, despair and hope) that I think you will find helpful.

In the meantime....keep breathing. It may sound trite, but as an old friend use to say "There ain't nothin' more important than oxygen". I still find some humorous solace in that statement. Perhaps you will also.

Take care, we're here for you.

I posted this on another site, and some of you may have seen it

there. (I recognize some of the names). But here's the latest story.

We met in a hotel restaurant, all 3 adults sitting around a table, H

picked up OC and held him so I could interact with him. (OW

had previously said I wasn't to touch him--she's nuts but Paul also

has a skin condition which reacts to many things, so we pretended

that was the reason and not her craziness about me). He stayed awake

for the 2 2/1 hours and was responsive and cute and smiley--H walked

him around some, then sat with me while I cooed and all that neat

stuff one does with an infant--for me it was VERY hard, but I

repressed the knowledge and images of how he was conceived and just

responded to him as a cute little person, which was my goal. No tears

then either--wouldn't give her either the satisfaction nor ammunition

for declining further contact. (Not that it did any good)

We went for a walk to a park, then sat in a Starbucks for a bit, then

she had obviously had enough--got a little agitated looking, and said

they had to go. Practically ran out.

So from my point of view, the visit was a success--he's a

sweetie.

She called the next day and ranted about how hard it was for her and

how I was showing off that H and I are together, how I

kept "touching" him--I don't remember doing that, just being close so

I could interact with Paul--H says I did touch him but just in

passing--besides, tough shit, right? But she kept saying it wasn't

part of her culture for me to be involved, that it was too painful,

that I was lording it over her in some devious way, yada, yada, yada.

H listened a bit then said he didn't want to discuss it and the call

ended. So from the point of view of hoping that we crossed some

barrier and that future visitations would go more smoothly, it was

obviously not a success. She's gone abroad for a week, and we'll

probably hear more when she gets back. Or maybe not--maybe she just

can't put her child first and put aside her feelings enough to let

him have a relationship with his father and his family.

Why do they demonize us? She knew all along that H wasn't leaving me

(and the issue of why it went on so long is our problem to work on--

and why she allowed it to go on so long despite their conversations

about them having no future together, that's her problem to work

out). Focus should be on the kid--and if I'm willing to accept him,

she should be grateful for his sake. But as I said, she's not

rational on that point.

Reading on TOW, I see that this is common--demonizing the wife. But

with a kid involved, give it up already! So the saga continues, but I

feel okay about it--a little like the scab that was forming was

ripped open again, but I sort of expected that.

We'll see how the rest of the week goes. This sucks.

Thanks for listening.

whimsey,

Hang in there...I think making contact the first time (?) has to be very difficult and it sounds like you pulled it off bravely. Good for you!

It also sounds like OW is getting a reality check....she's having to see right before her eyes that you and H are a team. Bad for her!

I think you've successfully negotiated your first major hurdle. Keep up the good work, I know it is difficult. If you are lucky, maybe OW will tire of this "game" and then H can do things as he sees fit/right/comfortable.

Hugs,

BT

BTW, what is TOW? (the other woman?)

whim,

seeing the OC for the 1st time was a pretty surreal experience. all i could do was sort of stare in disbelief that this was his child. i thought was looking forward to having OUR 1st child together..to experience the joy and specialness of parenthood together, and he just completely took that away from me. god it hurts like hell...but you're right..this child has no idea..he just wants to be held and loved..he needs to eat..needs to be changed and I did all those things mechanically..but they needed to be done.

It's funny though b/c when we pick him up he always has a wet diaper...but I make sure he goes back with a dry one..trust me. As for the OW they don't know each other and they communication is basically limited to "hey are you home I'm going to pick him up" to "hey are you home I'm going to drop him off". They have both agreed that they have their own lives to live and we (WS and I) will determin how big or small of a role we play. Sure that sounds reasonable...but what choice do I really have? All the options SUCK!

We really don't know what her true intentions are, but he wants to keep things as civil. Of course I'll always be on my toes but we'll take it one week at a time. I just hope is smart enough to see through her if and when she has a change of plans.

Do you guys think we should all sit down and talk and lay out some ground rules? What those rules may be I'm not sure...but just wanted to get your thoughts. B/c we dont know anythign about her I wouldn't want to put her on the defensive or anything...ok..i dont really care but well you know what i mean...but I do think that it is best to do everything jointly. This OW didn't just get a baby's daddy...she got me too whether she likes it or not!!

Thanks!

[This message edited by crazedNconfused at 12:49 PM, June 29th (Thursday)]

crazed,

Definitely...I vote for ground rules. If you've read the posts on this thread you will see the games these OW's play. Protect yourself to the best of your ability.

Anyone else feel the same?

sure ground rules sound like a good plan to me but what do i know.we're still waiting for his sorry ass to get dna done.he has n/c with the child he's 10 mths old but the ow gets to call whenever she gets an update on the longest cs filing i've ever seen in my life.not that i've been here before but i have friends that have filed and it didn't take this long.does anyone know if five months is too long or what?what exactly is the process and why would it atke this long?i know they never did dna and the fact that he's married to me makes it mandatory in her state (something she's been trying to get over).she's in arizona and we're in hawaii.is this why cause we're in different states?either way this wait is killing me!!!

All,

First let me say that I thank each of you for being brave enough to post and compassionate enough to answer other's posts.

The day I've been dreading came...sort of. H called me at 4 p.m. to tell me the lawyer called to ask H's permission to accept service on H's behalf. That means she's suing for paternity and CS.

I'm numb. H wants to "handle this" and wants me to stay out of it. The only thing I can think if is that this is his way of making more "amends". I've had no say so. No say in the A, no say if she did/did not have the kid, nothing. Now I'm supposed to sit back and have no say over something that is going to financially impact me 21 years? Isn't that asking too much?

We don't know what the docs say b/c lawyer hasn't received them yet. I know it will cost a bundle. I guess there goes the $25K we have in the bank for adoption, huh?

I'm so angry I could bash his face in now.

What do I do? Someone save me!!

BW