SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I guess I meant eye opener in the sense that the cheaters are so blatant and unashamed, it's a completely different perspective from the Wayward Forum here.

I actually agree with you that in many ways I think it's more realistic. I've posted before about how I believe a lot of cheaters are opportunistic in nature. I think it's true of cheaters of both sexes.

By the time they get here most WS have done at least some rudimentary thinking, the most basic work. We rarely see the worst.

I guess I meant eye opener in the sense that the cheaters are so blatant and unashamed, it's a completely different perspective from the Wayward Forum here.

They kind of have to be, don't they? I mean, no, they don't have to say it out loud, but they have so be seriously "blatant and unashamed" to do what they do. Kiss the wife goodbye, stop off for a BJ, then go shopping for the kids birthday. That's not even a "bad one" the rabbit hole goes so much deeper, but that's pretty darn "blatant and unashamed" of their actions.

When I first got here and went into the wayward section, I spend hours reading posts and thinking "are these people serious"? Actually, not "people" as much as WH's, my reason for going in there was to find out "why" women did it, but I found a lot more WH posts and because I knew plenty of WH's, I figured I'd see some insight there that would align with my previous experience. Instead I found something entirely different, I was expected /r/a and found, well; the wayward section we have here. I'd never seen /r/a before, but I knew plenty of men who might as well be posters there, as you said, "blatant and unashamed" to the core about what they did/were doing.

The funniest thing about that forum, it's like the men and women on there don't read each others posts. The men are gloating away about the great sex, the sex with their wives right before the AP, the anal on the 2nd "date" in the backseat of a car and the women often a "he gets me like nobody else ever has" or a full blown love story. Now, granted, there are some of both from both sexes, there are some guys in their own "love story" and there are some women who are clearly just out for sex, but people, do you not see that you're "in your circle" there? Those men gloating, those are the men who are looking for and having affairs with you! Oh, I know, your AP is "different", he's not the guy gloating about the sex, he's the one who's involved in this love story with you. Except EVERYONE thinks that! Except for the very, very limited number of affairs that are "just sex" and both parties agree to that, at least one party is living in a "love story" and that love story is almost certainly a figment of their imagination. It's just so stupid it boggles the mind; affairs are like playing the lottery as your retirement plan, has almost no chance of success at accomplishing your stated goal. If you play the lottery because it's fun (or have an A because you like sex with new people) well, I still think both are really stupid uses of money/time, but, you're getting what you wanted, I just question the cost for that "fun". But having an A for "love" when the deck is almost entirely stack against you AND there's a really good chance, because you've self-selected into the group of people willing to have an A, that you're dealing with the "gloating /r/a" user.. I mean, WTF?

If all those "scums" are cheating and lying on their spouses, what makes you think that they are posting the truth on social media?

Food for thought.

There are all kind of WS and BS. I do go, on occasion, to that subreddit, to gain perspective on the thinking of some WS.

I find useful posts such as “what would you do if you get caught”. And get answers such as “I would cry rivers and beg for forgiveness “.

I post regularly in JFO, and that subreddit is just one data point, like the Wayward forum is another.

Trying to figure out.... This new BS, does (s) he have the option of R/D or the BS shouldn’t bother with R? Whatis the “less bad outcome” for that person?

I wouldn’t worry about posts that states that WS have amazing sex with their AP. Let’s be pragmatic. There are what? 8 billion people on this planet?

Dear SI reader,

You are not the best sexual partner in the world.

You are not the most intelligent spouse in the world.

You are not the most wise person in the world.

You are not the best ping pong player in the world.

You are not the ideal partner for your spouse. If there was a machine that could analyze the brain of all 8 billion people in the world and determine, with 99.9% accuracy, who is the best match, it wouldn’t be you.

Why so many insecurities?

If the AP is better in sex, so be it. If your WS sole criteria is sex, let him/her be with that AP and so be it.

If my current spouse is a pretty darn good match, we are both committed to be kind, honest, truthful, faithful to another, what else can you ask for?

Years and years ago I found an old Hustler mag. It might have been another mag but it’s been so long I am guessing. Anyway, the point is I read “letters” or comments and it dawned on me they were all fiction. I looked at the reddit sub a couple of times and see the same thing. It’s porn disguising itself as chats between cheaters. Don’t believe all that stuff. It’s mostly made up in minds of very immature people. You’re be better off never looking at it again.

Don’t believe all that stuff. It’s mostly made up in minds of very immature people. You’re be better off never looking at it again.

As a WS I see myself in those posts. When I as IN my affair, those posts reflect exactly how I felt. Its painful to read it. I don't think its made up, I think its how they truly feel, in the moment. Everything is heightened. I don't understand why BS are so adamant that it all has to be fake and nothing is that great, I know its easier to say that, but realistically affair sex is different. And unless you have experienced it, its hard to understand it. I can tell you in the moment, it does feel that way. That's why affairs are so addicting and hard to untangle from. Its a high.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 11:21 AM, July 10th (Friday)]

There are all kinds of different posts on that sub, some of which I'm sure are just erotic fiction. I doubt most or all of them are though.

pinkpggy,

I'm sure affair sex is like that. Hell, being in an affair made my husband think he was in love with someone after knowing very selective parts of who she was for two weeks. I'm sure it amplifies sex, too.

But let's not generalize too much about all of the posts and how reflective they are of most waywards, because there's a lot that's posted there that's pretty fucking disgusting.

I've read posts bragging about gaslighting the BS, as well as a post about how one guy was so turned on by the very concept of infidelity that he actually came to this forum to jerk off over stories in JFO.

Sure, I buy that some of the posts on that sub are a raw look into the mind of an active wayward. But, not all of it is typical wayward thought process; some of it is downright socipathic.

[This message edited by Joanna1013 at 11:32 AM, July 10th (Friday)]

Pinkpiggy, did YOU get on there and brag? My point is that I question why cheaters feel the need to get on a site and share shitty behavior. It contradicts what they write. If their love, sex, affair is so hot, so pure, so everything, then go public. “I have never felt this way before,”. Yes you have. If your marriage stinks leave. If you love your AP leave. Everything else is crap.

But, not all of it is typical wayward thought process; some of it is downright socipathic.

Ahh, I hate to break it to you, but wayward behavior at least what most of us dealt with, easily fits the criteria for sociopathic. You need 3 out of the list of 7 below:

1) Doesn’t respect social norms or laws. They consistently break laws or overstep social boundaries.

2) Lies, deceives others, uses false identities or nicknames, and uses others for personal gain.

3) Doesn’t make any long-term plans. They also often behave without thinking of consequences.

4) Shows aggressive or aggravated behavior. They consistently get into fights or physically harm others.

5) Doesn’t consider their own safety or the safety of others.

6) Doesn't follow up on personal or professional responsibilities. This can include repeatedly being late to work or not paying bills on time.

7)Doesn’t feel guilt or remorse for having harmed or mistreated others.

My wife gets a 4 or 5 on this scale. I'd say it's difficult to be wayward and not get at least 3. To me, and I work with plenty of sociopaths, it's by far the most sociopathic thing anyone has ever done to me; you snaked my deal and took credit/pay for it, feel no guilt about it, and then took the rest of the day off to bang your AP. Par for the course. But my W's behavior went WAY above your "sociopath next door" stuff I deal with at work, of course, because I love her and treated her differently than I do others who I know have no moral basis for their actions, just money/power/greed/etc.

But let's not generalize too much about all of the posts and how reflective they are of most waywards, because there's a lot that's posted there that's pretty fucking disgusting.

Again, I'll say, look at your audience. Active waywards are fucking disgusting. What they are doing is disgusting. Does them "feeling guilty" about it make it any better? No, it does not. My wife could have lit /r/a on fire with her (not fiction, sadly) A story, had it all for a great /r/a thread. In public, in cars, in the marital home, doing things for the AP she wouldn't for the H.. The only thing she didn't do it gloat. Oh, actually, she did that too, to one of her girlfriends, about how in "love" she was.

Nope, for me, /r/a is a much clearer vision into the actual happenings of my W's A than most of the stories here. And given that she did the same things they do, I struggle to believe she was doing them with any less glee than they seem to exhibit over there. Maybe she was deeply conflicted and "broken" and confused and a million other things. Didn't have time to think about it much between BJ's though, so, hey, what are you gonna do right?

Rideitout,

I guess my point is that, while yes, every wayward's actions are disgusting, it's not every wayward who is going to get joy out of gaslighting their spouse.

For me, and maybe it's because my husband's affair was emotional and not physical, the worst about the whole thing was the lying and the gaslighting.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but I think that his dishonesty came from a place of self-preservation (i.e. wanting to keep his relationship) rather than deception. No doubt, it was still a deception, but some of the posts on that sub make it seem like the posters get just as much of a kick out of lying to their spouse as they do from their AP.

I don't know if I'm explaining it well. I just can't accept that every wayward fits the adultery subreddit mold.

I just can't accept that every wayward fits the adultery subreddit mold.

That I can agree with you on. It's certainly not all of them. But here's the thing, affairs don't just "happen" (no matter how much our WS's might claim they do). Someone in that "relationship" kept pushing, kept pursuing, kept trying to get more physical, kept the ball bouncing. It's not (typically anyway) 2 hapless people who just happen to fall into bed together, at least one (and perhaps both) has a plan. That plan could be to remove the other's panties, or that plan could be to break up the M and steal the H/W.

Someone has to "make it happen", you don't wind up in a gunfight with the cops after a bank robbery accidentally, you might not have been the mastermind, but SOMEONE was in your group. And that someone is very likely to be your /r/a cheater. If it's not you (talking to WS's here) it was almost certainly your AP. And if it was you, well, I'm sure the /r/a group speaks much more to your motivations and actions than some others.

I guess, summing it up, at least one, but perhaps both AP's are far over the line into sociopathy. My wife was the "hunted" and she was over the line. Her AP, the hunter, ticked all the boxes. Maybe your H wasn't the hunter, and maybe someone did throw themselves at him, that does happen, but if so, that person would be the one way into sociopathic behavior.

I mean, come on, you KNOW what's going to happen, right? My W's AP had been caught before, he knew he'd probably be able to smooth it over and just kill his wife a little more inside, and he knew my W would probably be kicked to the curb, in fact, he probably was very disappointed when I didn't because he's extra sex source went away. If I'd kicked her, I have no doubt her first stop would be him for a "romantic" BJ in a car somewhere. But if you know what you're doing, and know what the consequences of it are likely to be for people you claim to care about it (your spouse, your AP, etc), your way, way over the line. Your actively out destroying other people's lives for your own enjoyment which crosses much closer to psychopathy than it does sociopathy.

some of the posts on that sub make it seem like the posters get just as much of a kick out of lying to their spouse as they do from their AP.

Only sociopaths feel this way. The rest is pure, sadistic fiction, people who get a kick out of writing such immoral, narcissistic junk and then watching as it gets response after response. Trolls want to matter and get tons of impact and feedback. I can only imagine the thrills from all of the emotional feedback. This is the joy of a troll, and certain types of sexually and morally charged forums bring out loads and loads of fiction writers. Fan fiction is a huge genre these days. Stealing and faking your words and ideas is seen as clever genius in a world where writing as someone else is celebrated.

I simply do not understand why such a cynical group as betrayed spouses is so quick to believe and accept these junk forums full of trolls showing up to yank their emotional chains? It is seriously troll porn. They love it. Is it confirmation bias that keeps some betrayeds so confident it's the truth? I suppose. It verifies what they believe is being said and felt, leading to the easy catfishing of betrayed spouses.

It's close to pure fiction. I find the wayward section here on SI to match the cheaters and former cheaters I have known in this world unless they are sociopaths or personality disordered. Those people ARE trolls and literally enjoy other people's pain. But all of the other cheaters in the world? No.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:53 PM, July 10th (Friday)]

As a WS I see myself in those posts. When I as IN my affair, those posts reflect exactly how I felt. Its painful to read it. I don't think its made up, I think its how they truly feel, in the moment. Everything is heightened. I don't understand why BS are so adamant that it all has to be fake and nothing is that great, I know its easier to say that, but realistically affair sex is different. And unless you have experienced it, its hard to understand it. I can tell you in the moment, it does feel that way. That's why affairs are so addicting and hard to untangle from. Its a high.

Thankfully a WS who has spoken the truth. The affair sex is good, otherwise why keep going back.

I disagree to your point about the BS thinking that it is fake. Maybe they just wish it was. It’s been my experience that most of the BS on this site think the affair sex was good for their WS.

I think it’s more the WS who rewrite history and now the BS is the best lover in the world and all the texts they wrote about how great the AP was was clouded due to “the fog”

When I say fake, I think there may be some who are trolls but I think the majority are playing to their audience.

They think they have find their own folk as it were and there's a level of showmanship or maybe one upmanship. I think they're embellishing their stories similarly to the way people into sports seem to talk about their glory days.

When I say fake, I think there may be some who are trolls but I think the majority are playing to their audience.

I'm sure you're right, but, again, this is exactly the problem. Those WS's are embellishing, my W (and waywards at recovery sites like this) are likely downplaying. This is why lying is bad, in case anyone wants to know.

If I could trust my W's answers, it doesn't really matter what the A reddit says, does it? I'd know the truth. But I cannot, because, well, she has massive incentive to lie and really no way for me to ever call her on the lie. The A reddit has much less incentive to lie, so I tend to trust it more, sure, probably some chest thumping and bravado, but I imagine the general context of their content to be at least somewhat accurate. And in the huge gulf between the two (best sex of my life to it was awful/couldn't get it up/etc), somewhere in there, floats the truth for any individual affair. But if everyone is lying, well, you'll never know what you're dealing with in a WS, if it's important to you.

Thankfully a WS who has spoken the truth. The affair sex is good, otherwise why keep going back.

Well, see it a little different. "Going back for more" doesn't necessarily mean "good" to me. What makes it hard to believe it wasn't at least "very good" is simply the nature of the relationship and the typical "nothing withheld" nature of it. A forbidden relationship, in secret, kept apart by others, only able to meet occasionally, plenty of build up between encounters.. I mean, that reads like a typical romance novel. And then, on the other side, the "everything goes"/wild/kinky/uninhibited sex, well, that read like a typical porn plot. I mean, these are fantasies being acted out in real life, "I'm so hot he'll cheat on his wife for me" and "She's so into me I can get anal behind the bleachers". It's really goddarn hard to see how with all those elements "going for it" that at least some of the /r/a stuff is accurate.

As a WS I see myself in those posts. When I as IN my affair, those posts reflect exactly how I felt. Its painful to read it. I don't think its made up, I think its how they truly feel, in the moment. Everything is heightened. I don't understand why BS are so adamant that it all has to be fake and nothing is that great, I know its easier to say that, but realistically affair sex is different. And unless you have experienced it, its hard to understand it. I can tell you in the moment, it does feel that way. That's why affairs are so addicting and hard to untangle from. Its a high.

Thank you for your honesty, and yes, this reads a lot more reasoned to me than either what I heard from my W or what I read in /r/a. However, I'm not at all convinced "it's all fake" (unless your talking about love in an A, I'm pretty sure that's usually fake to get the other AP to give up sex), in fact, I think the opposite, I don't think the "fireworks" sex is fake at all, in fact, I know that's a big draw for those I've known looking for or having affairs. They sure as heck aren't talking about how much fun it is to TXT their AP's all night long, I can tell you that much.