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I had an interesting conversation with my husband tonight. He tried to explain that he feels like an entirely different person. That the things he cared about before, big house, nice cars etc don’t matter anymore. That he doesn’t know the person in the mirror. That he’s fundamentally changed. And that this has nothing to do with "us" or the affair. To me it sounds Ike a full blown true mid life crisis.

That’s what he means when he asks if I love the person he used to be or the person he is now.

Honestly I have no idea how to answer that or take any of it. To me it’s just him. Yeah I never though he’d be capable of what he did, but that doesn’t mean he’s someone else. Just a different new version of him. To him he’s someone new. The past was not with him but a different persona he was portraying to protect him from himself. And that’s the "person" I’ve ever known. But in the same breathe he says the last 20+ years don’t mean nothing. That’s he loves me and our time together. Even if we grew apart at some point.

He has his first IC session tomorrow and I hope it goes better than the last one that totally broke his trust by reaching out to his emergency contacting (his sister) and discussing things that should get them disbarred or whatever.

He has a lot to figure out and I have a ton of guilt for focusing on the infidelity when I know there’s a lot more going on. But at the same time when I ask if he wants to start working on "us" the only answer I get is that he doesn’t want to even work on himself. That running away from everyone and everything would be easier.

How do I tell him we’re done when he’s in such a crisis. Isn’t that the whole "through sickness and health" part of our vows. This limbo is killing me. I can’t focus. I’m failing at my job. Literally right now I’m supposed to be working on a presentation for tomorrow at 10am and at 11pm I haven’t even started. . .

I don’t know how to wait for him to figure his shit out. Cuz realistically it’s gonna be years. Meanwhile he’s still randomly talking to her (I no longer have access to how much).

But I don’t know how to leave while he’s going through all this crap that’s so much more than just what he’s done and is doing to "us". Am I being selfish? It feels like it. I don’t know how to put myself first. Funny thing is I know he’s trying to do the same, put himself first instead of "us" and that’s what is killing me. Cuz his selflessness does not involve me. While mine is agony no matter what. Not that he doesn’t care and feel bad cuz he does.

He needs to focus on him. And I need to focus on me but how do we do that while we’re supposed to be a "us"?

I don’t know how to stay in this house with him here, while we’re still in this weird in between state.

**** to clarify he was going through some of this before her. I knew he was struggling. Told him he needed professional help. I had no idea just how much. He went to her about a lot of it cuz she’s outside his friend and family circle. But when she accepted this “new” him instead of the rejection like he expected things spiraled and made everything 100 times worse between us**

[This message edited by Misery at 5:33 AM, Tuesday, June 14th]

It doesn’t matter if this is a mid life crisis or not. cheating is cheating.

A MLC affair is oftentimes a catalyst for the cheater to "find themselves" lol. By that I mean they feel as though they have gotten a "second chance" b/c the affair makes them feel like a teen with their first crush. This explains the mindset of the cheater.

Understanding an affair and the cheater’s mindset can help you.

I understand the vows and "sickness and in health" part. However ….. your cheating spouse has made a choice to dishonor the marriage. I don’t believe you are obligated to stay w/ your cheating spouse if they are causing harm to you or your marriage.

Sometimes you have to put yourself first. On dday2 I believed I had to get myself out of his cheating and lying warp. It was my sanity that was suffering and I decided that it came down to him or me — and I chose me.

I didn’t want a D. I didn’t want to have to split up a family. But I also wasn’t going down on the sinking ship. I had to save myself - for both me and my kids.

And I think you are in the same boat. It’s a hard choice — but the situation you are in was not brought on by you.

Just as the cheater was selfish in choosing to cheat, sometimes the betrayed has to be selfish in choosing to help themselves — not the marriage.

Understanding your reactions and powerful emotions to his on going affair, including your own mindset is one of the steps in grieving and healing you.

It looks like you understand this from your posts. That's great!

If your husband is currently actively cheating: there is a broken you, a broken him, the OW, a broken him with the OW and if he's living with you, a broken "us".

If you husband went NC with the OW, then there is a you , a him, and an "us", however broken.

To me it's about all in or all out. None of this limbo business. The limbo destroyed my well being, my sanity as I was floundering in my early days of discovery.

I got help...I told my therapist what I wanted and needed to help me. I found one who listened to me, and she delivered. I did not want to go trough a long, professional process. It was a simple request but so bloody hard for me to do.

If it helps, this is exactly what I asked for :" Please guide me in finding ways to manage my reaction to my emotions and my feelings about my husband's infidelity. I can't do it on my own. I don't know how and I am falling apart."

At that point I did not want to understand my husband's cheating. I needed to get a handle over my reactions to his cheating so that I could regain my focus on my life and move through the floundering.

OP, your husband has broken his solemn wedding vow to be faithful to you. He is not showing any genuine interest in becoming faithful again. That is a death sentence to a marriage, sorry to say. All of his blather about feeling like a different person and moving on are his way to get you ready for the inevitability of him either divorcing you, or at the very least, trying to get you to accept that your old way of being married is over and he will be emotionally unavailable from now on. It's over.

You are not doing anything wrong by leaving him. He broke your vows. If you're a Christian, you should keep in mind that adultery is the one reason for divorce that Christ approved. And that adultery counts whether it's physical or emotional. That's what "already committed adultery in his heart" is all about.

Jesus understands the destruction that physical and emotional infidelity causes to a marriage.

Thanks for updating us, Misery. I'm sorry you're in such awful limbo.

You don't have to tell him that the two of you are over. You can just tell him that you're done being in a love triangle. Right now, he's being so selfish that the onus is on you to accept his waffling. You can accept that he's undergoing a mental health crisis without accepting a third person in your marriage. It's up to him to reconcile himself to your requirements, or not.

What if you say, I need you to go NC with the OW, or move out. He has a very supportive family. He also has the OW to fall back on. I don't think it's really selflessness for you to stay despite everything because he has other people to support him. Insisting that his refusal to make a choice really IS a choice is tough love. I'm sure part of his angst is being unable to decide . . . so decide for him. No, decide for yourself. Choose yourself.

You can accept a changed him. That's not the question . . . it's a distraction, a red herring. What he's really asking you to do is give him extension after extension because he's not ready to commit to you, but he wants to keep you as an option. We understand how that feels, and it's very normal to want to have your WS become an option for yourself again before you make any decisions. But at a certain point you need to admit that it's not happening. This is also affecting your mental health.

Yeah, my WS had a similar mindset. And he also was struggling before his A and I was jumping through every hoop to help, begging him to talk to a counselor or even a friend. But he CHOSE an A. And so did your WS.

There are lots of ways to work through a MLC or whatever. There are lots of ways to work through any issues in an M. None of those involve having an A.

You cannot sacrifice yourself to help him— he needs to help himself. You need to choose you.

Also do you love the "new him"? Well who the fuck is he? What he has shown you is that new guy is a selfish, self-centered cheater with the ability to lie consistently and repeatedly to the person he vowed to protect and love. How can you love him? If that is him, then probably not. And if there is more to him than that, then he needs to prove that to you. By doing the work, being 100% honest, dumping the AP completely, and getting himself in to deep therapy to understand his horrible choices and who he CHOSES to be.

This limbo is the worst. Please please put you first.
((Hugs))

He has a lot to figure out and I have a ton of guilt for focusing on the infidelity when I know there’s a lot more going on. But at the same time when I ask if he wants to start working on "us" the only answer I get is that he doesn’t want to even work on himself. That running away from everyone and everything would be easier.

How do I tell him we’re done when he’s in such a crisis. Isn’t that the whole "through sickness and health" part of our vows. This limbo is killing me.

You are such a compassionate and kind person. That's clear. You're concerned about the state of your WS and that's natural. But you should NOT be feeling guilty about being focused on a betrayal of this magnitude. It might be in your nature to be selfless and to be giving, but there does come a point at which you have to recognize that YOU matter too. This isn't a "sickness and health" issue. There are lots of people who deal with depression, anxiety, and mid-life crisis who DON'T cheat. Cheating is only possible when the cheater is capable of ignoring his stated values and when his boundaries are weak, permeable, or nonexistent. If you VALUE the things you claim to believe in, you can't just throw them away like that. The capacity for betrayal was always latent within him. You just didn't know it, same as I didn't know it about my WH, and everyone here who married in good faith didn't know it about their WS's. We don't tend to do a really deep dive into our ethics until our ethics are challenged, right?

There's a bit of a pitfall regarding the duality we feel after an intimate betrayal. Most of us do feel a sort of compulsion to UNDERSTAND what our WS was thinking. We dig in with laser-like focus looking for explanation, but while we're doing that, we're not recognizing it as a distraction which is insulating us from the pain. On the one hand, when we're focusing our energy on the WS, we can feel a certain clinical detachment, a scientific curiosity, empathy for our mate who's caught up in a trap of sorts. On the other hand though, we have to FEEL all the bereavement of our abandonment wounds, the irreplaceable loss of our naive trust, the emotional security to which we'd been accustomed. The pain threatens to overwhelm. We question our existence, our beliefs, our God even. The constant dual shifting between these two viewpoints can become exhausting, and the danger here is that you'll simply go along to get along without really being true to yourself and holding out for what you deserve.

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling a bit. The point though is that YOU matter. Your future happiness matters. You're the only one in the world right now who is truly capable of protecting YOU, and you're NOT selfish or uncaring for taking care of yourself. There's not a damned thing you can do to FIX your WS. We simply can't fix other people. They have to do that for themselves. If he's too sick to function, he needs hospitalization, and if he's not too sick to function, he needs to roll up his sleeves and get to work on his inner demons. Either way, you DESERVE a partner who wants to be with you enough to do what's necessary to be there.

((big hugs)) You're going to be okay. Believe it.

Mine continued to talk with AP as well. That's screaming loudly.....waaaaa! Don't take my shiny away! I didn't know that at the time it happened to me. I tried to help him work past it, to detach and come back. Guess what happened? More talking and eventual meet up. This is an extension of he doesn't respect you, doesn't care about your feelings, your sanity, your health as you get hammered by stress. What's important is him, his feelings, his joy.

Guess what? It ends when you say it does. I finally said I'm leaving after wait wait waiting. He's telling you he wont choose, won't work hard to help. It's 3asier to go flirt and get a new shiny than to face the mess he's made. He's telling you clearly he doesn't want to.

What do you want your life to be? You can have whatever you want now. You decide. Don't be afraid to get what you really want. If he wants to be a lazy, lying cheater OK then bud. No need to wait for him as I did. He has made his choice.

I was thinking at the time, We`d fix it, I'd have my garden and home I put years of work into. He'd forget about her and we'd be happy.

The sad part is, it could never be the same again. I'd never trust like i did. When I finally stopped trying, I just coasted a bit to see what he'd do. Lots of talking and texting and erasing the 3vidence. Then I knew this is what he wanted. Me keeping things nice at home and him giving the shiny the best parts of himself. He got resentful and grouchy. Didn't want to go out or have fun. He wanted fun with the shiny. I was just in his way.

Don't settle for that. It hurts. Every day it hurts.

I understand having compassion for your H.Mental illness is not his fault.

But especially with a mentally ill WS. you need to attend to yourself first - it's like putting your oxygen mask on first if an emergency on an airplane. You can't afford to pass out when your H hits a crisis point. You've got to be able to ack off and call 911. They may be far from perfect, but they're virtually guaranteed to handle the sitch better than you will.

And you need to maintain your own mental health to be able to call 911. If that means getting away from him, you need to get away - that will be better for both of you.

If he is not willing to work on himself, what can you do for him? Won't anything you do for him just allow him to go on not working in himself?

Oh Misery, I'm just so sorry to hear of your struggles. We've been there, done that, got the damn t-shirt (like we'd EVER wear it!)

Reading your last post, I wondered if Al-Anon may be helpful (or CoDa). I am NOT saying you are co-dependent... I am saying that some of your posts describe things that helped me via Al-Anon and Melodie Beatty's CoD books. One is that awful guilt and the worry about "kicking when they are down". It took me a long time to "get" that my choices do not "make" anyone else feel or do anything. Those are THEIR choices. We are only responsible for our own choices, and we are also, IMO, responsible to ourselves (in that put on our OWN oxygen mask first kind of way).

Mid life crisis, mental health, complete change in life, or whatever.is going on with your WS, he is the one that CHOSE to have an A. And he is the only one that continues to CHOOSE to contact his AP, despite being well aware of the harm it brings to you, and (i assume) the potential consequences to the M. You continue to CHOOSE to fumble trying to an oxygen mask on HIM before putting one on yourself. Trust me, I am "guilty" of this in many ways (still, tho not WRT my WH).

Put simply, I don't think that works... in life generally and absolutely when it comes to infidelity. There's a great interview with an IC named Stan Tatkin on the Helping Couples Heal podcast in which he basically says the post dday relationships that have any hope of working are those in which the BS sets clear boundaries and STICKS TO THEM. You are not the 1st (and sadly, will not be the last ) BS to struggle with this.

You don't HAVE to decide right now if you are willing to wait the years it may take for him to figure/sort himself out. However, I think it would be helpful if you worked on figuring out their boundaries you need TODAY and then stick to them. It sounds to me that continued contact with AP is one of them for you. So figure out the consequences that YOU can live with (not him - YOU), communicate them clearly (and going to his IC where he feels "safe" - yeah, feels so unfair, but all too often true - may be a good way to do that communicating). That is not "focusing on the infidelity", that is protecting your own heart from further harm.

If your WS is not willing to 1000% commit to ending ALL communication with AP immediately and doing so without any wavering (including a NC letter with threat of legal action if she contacts him, deleting all contact info, blocking on phone, at work, email, etc. and allowing you to monitor ALL his communication and electronics - including work- until further notice...which could be forever), then you implement your consequences. Not to coerce or manipulate or change him (this is NOT about him!), but to protect yourself and to provide some "breathing" room for you to wrap your head around what's happened, what's happening, and how you will learn to manage it all.

If he can't do that, then he can't (or won't) do that. You know where you stand and you will have sorted out how you wish to proceed with YOUR precious and only life.

None of this is "selfish"... IMO, there is a HUGE difference between self-care and self-ish. Again, this is NOT about him or trying to make him into his "old" self.... it's about YOU. Same goes for the 180 or grey rock or any other boundary. Boundaries are NOT to change the other person's behavior... they are to keep one's own sanity. An alcoholic can go binge drink and do their thing all they want..... but they cannot have their booze AND have me in their lives. Same for your WH. He can have all the As in the world he wants... but he cannot have his AP AND have you in his life, any more than I can scream at my kids over every little thing and then expect them to trust me when they need to call me from the police station (or whatever - you get the drift).

What helped me may not help you. That's OK, but I would emphasize that you continue to search for what WILL work for you to help you move through the [temporary] place you are in right now. What do you need (in this world, not the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" world we all wish we had the time machine for)? What do you want? If you can only change yourself, what can be changed? What tools or support might you need?

Sending Hugs and strength, and looking forward to a day when you can change your username - that "misery" does NOT last forever.

If it was just the MLC or depression you would be there for him. But cheating changes everything in my book.

"I could have supported you through this difficult time In Your life as your partner and spouse. But then you went and had an affair and continue to cheat and break our marriage vows.

So now the best I can do, as I work to find a way to heal myself from the trauma you inflicted and continue to cause, is to wish you luck on your journey as I continue to find my own way.

You should no longer consider me someone you will be able to rely on to assist you while you struggle with who you are. I wish you well but I am moving on. You have years of work to do on yourself until you become someone I could ever be safe with again.

I am sorry it has come to this. It literally has broken my heart."

[This message edited by Stevesn at 12:08 PM, Friday, June 17th]

Misery PLEASE re read GMC's post. It is very spot on.
This isn't about him, or you manipulating him. This is about you setting boundaries, if you will, although these are common sense things anyone would expect from their spouse, to prevent further harm, hurt, or damage to you.

Hey Misery -
I noticed that Sisoon bumped a thread about boundaries in the JFO forum (boundaries & consequences 101) that you may find helpful. For some of us (raising hand 🙋‍♀️), learning boundaries feels about as alien as learning Sanskrit. IOW, it ain't always easy... yet I have found every minute of that "work" to be more than worth it in the long run. Boundaries are empowering... not bc they will change one damn thing about someone else, but bc they can work to change how we view ourselves and supporting our own needs and wants.

and slight t/j to thank Tushnurse for her comment & all she does here on SI. She was instrumental for me in my post dday journey.

Why is there always more?! My head is spinning. To start I left again for a couple of days. AC died in the house and we’ve been fighting frequently. I know my WS is still talking with AP. I don’t have access to how often or what is said. It’s all on Snapchat which is only on his phone which he will not share with me. He is still admit that he loves us both.
I came back after 4 days and got access to his iPad which means his email addy. The AP wants to move herself and her 2 kids to our city. They are roughly 600 miles, 2 states away. Needless to say I spiraled. However that evening we had a very calm discussion. My WS of course said the AP can make her own decisions and it has nothing to do with him. Yeah right. There were also videos of her, which he said were old. Also don’t believe. There was one photo which proves he was lying about some of what happened when they met in person for the 2nd time. He’s actions are his own, I just don’t understand the continual lying. The damage is done why keep hiding it.

Bottom line he has now left the house and I am staying here. He’s taking some time to think while I set strict boundary. I will not co-exist in the house with him while he is still in contact with the AP. He’s argument is that it doesn’t matter if they are in contact he still loves her and that in itself is like emotional cheating so he doesn’t see the point in stopping contact. My counter argument is it has to be the very first step to healing us. At this point he needs to make a decision on if he wants to work on our marriage. I’ve made it very clear that I do and believe it can be healed, if we put the work into it.

But to be honest with everyone I am absolutely terrified of our next steps. Everything he’s told me over the last month really sounds like he’s done, he just hasn’t admitted it to himself yet. He was under this delusion that if we divorced he’d still see me at family events and have a beer while our two dogs play. I have course cleared that up quickly. If we are done I will need a clean break with zero contact cuz I won’t be able to handle it otherwise. Seeing him will be too painful. I’m falling apart. I don’t understand how after 18 years he can just drop me for his "first true love". I’m trying to prepare myself for that reality I just don’t know how I will live life without him. I know I’ll survive but my heart and soul are broken. How do things unravel so fast. 4 months ago we were looking at a major purchase for the house. Now he’s about to leave me for someone else. It all just makes no sense. This is not the person I’ve known for 20 years.

I’m so sorry Misery.

It happens ,because gave himself permission to get the easy feel goods of his teenage love. That whole .. the heart wants what the heart wants ....is such bullshit. They are in love with the past and the ideal facades they show to each other. He has been able to continue to get your support, getting credit with his family for ‘trying’ and getting daily contact butterflies from her. Nice catbird seat huh?

It’s not sustainable. OW wants full commitment and the kick off of this fantasy life they’ve been fawning about. And you are at capacity and will not tolerate continued contact. He’s gonna work real hard to keep the status quo, but it only gets trickier from here.

Why does he keep lying? Because it works. Your hope can stay alive if you think it’s all PG13 now, or if it’s not it was a slip up and whatever else he spins .....in versions 3 and 4 and so on. He does want to keep you on the hook. A back up plan and support system. If he can convince you to be his friend, it whitewashes the destruction nicely.

Right now he can portray himself in any light he wants to all parties. Because he actually doesn’t have to back his promises and he gets all the good feelskis he wants. It’s great to be the prize. But it looks like that changing. For you at least.

I’m glad you drew the line in the sand. If he wants out, it’s all the way out. No friendship, no support. And you need to really think through this for yourself, because as reality starts to settle in. As he begins to face life without you and have to meet the requirements of a real world relationship with OW. He’s gonna start having some emergencies ....that are going to tug at your empathy and lingering love. But he fired you from the safety net job.

He isn’t the guy you were married to. He’s had to make accommodations in his character to do what he’s done. He can absolutely face that and change but he will need to pull his head out of his ass and get to work.

You don’t have to have it all figured out today. Stay strong. You can’t nice or support him back. You are going to be all right.

You need to search out a support system other than his family and focus each day on what you can do for yourself to heal. All is not lost yet. But you should move forward as if it has because you can’t R alone. Until or if he can do NC .. there are no more steps for you to take.

This is the downside of being reasonable and understanding as opposed to a more shock 'n awe approach. The WS gets comfortable in their self-involvement and then any push back from you seems callous and arbitrary to them. Don't get me wrong, you're a lovely, empathetic person who has tried her best to work through the issues, but the real issue is HIM. He's currently recalcitrant and unwilling to change. You can't work with that, and as much as it hurts, in his current mindset, he's simply not qualified for R.

Your fear has been that if you leaned on him, he'd fall apart or he'd leave. But the alternative to that is that the WS just eases his way on out of the marriage at his own pace and comfort. The choices aren't stark or shocking. He doesn't have to deal with the sudden loss of your love and his family dynamic or question himself as to whether he's doing the right thing. He can dip a toe in the OW's pool and slowly become accustomed to the change. Do you see how that works?

IMHO, we're better off presenting the WS's choices in stark contrast. In my personal situation, my fWH could be "all in" or "all out". I wasn't offering any in between. IMHO, you're doing the right thing by drawing up boundaries. Don't doubt yourself.

((big hugs))

ETA:

The AP wants to move herself and her 2 kids to our city.

I'd keep a close eye on the money. Make sure you have an account of every penny that's spent. If he's keeping private money that you don't know about or that he can't account for, I'd get an attorney and make him show his books. The last thing you need are marital assets being spent on moving the OW to your hometown.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:28 PM, Thursday, June 23rd]

He’s lying.

He’s cheating.

He’s pretending the AP is moving to your area and it has Nothing to do w/ him.

The truth? He’s planning to leave you when she arrives and you are going to be blindsided. I was in your shoes. My H kept saying he wanted a D but it had nothing to do w/ the OW b/c the affair ended months ago. The truth is the affair had everything to do with her and I was being kicked to the curb on dday2 for the OW.

The good news was on dday2 I no longer cared and I had my exit strategy in place for months. Dday2 was execution time.

And then my H was blindsided.

Get yourself an exit strategy at least to protect yourself financially. No one wants to see you D but what would be worse is for you to get blindsided and left broke while your cheating H goes off with the OW and her kids WITH HALF OF YOUR MONEY.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:31 PM, Thursday, June 23rd]

Gently, if he is still saying he loves her and he is actively talking to her and discussing plans for her to move there, he has already decided. He may not be ready to verbalize it to you, but he knows what he intends to do. You don't have anything to work with.

Don't cling on and let him dictate how this plays out. Get your ducks in a row, retain a lawyer, and look forward. I'm so sorry.

Misery, this happened to a neighbor of mine and a friend of mine. One left a wife and four children after he saw his hs g’friend at a class reunion and the other reconnected on fb and left his wife and two kids.

Please be prepared. You need to get angry and get a lawyer,