SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

NiceGuy25:

What does SS stand for ?

I have not read this entire thread, however, married sex with my fwh and I has always been the best ever. Sure there have been occasions when it wasn't for the most part it is. My fwh has insisted that sex with the ow was not very good. For him it was What he built up in his head that kept him involved. I know this could be a lie and I've acusused him of not telling me the truth about it. Again, he insists the sex was not good with them. Rationally, I also know that sex in a filthy stairwell would not be "best ever" in my book. Nor would sex and then immediately getting up and leaving, be considered "best ever."

My point is that if he is lying about it why would he not have left and stayed where he could get "best ever" sex. I tend to believe my fwh when he insists the sex was not good.

For me there is a lot more to sex than the O.

It comes down to believing what you want, because people who brag about it are exaggerating and people who don't want you to feel bad are minimizing.

The only thing that matters to me now is the remousefulness of my spouse and the continued rebuilding of our relationship.

What makes sex good or bad? Is it just the physical motions and attentiveness of your sexual partner, or is it your frame of mind during the act that makes it abysmal or mindblowing? From a woman's perspective, I believe that the constant state of arousal during an affair greatly contributes towards the perception of affair sex being the 'best sex ever' at the time. I doubt whether very many couples spend hours and days at a time sexting each other, building anticipation, enticing each other with graphic descriptions of what they are going to do to each other once they are together. It is said that the brain is our most powerful sexual organ, so I can see how days of wanting and lusting can culminate in a 5 minute bonk in the back of a truck that leads to a mindblowing orgasm. It's not necessarily the act that leads to the experience; it's what comes before it. Of course the participants walk away thinking it was the best sex ever, when the reality is that the build up in their minds set the stage for it. And the sad reality is if they had given even half that attention to their husband/wife, sex with them can be even more amazing and meaningful.

What makes sex good or bad? Is it just the physical motions and attentiveness of your sexual partner, or is it your frame of mind during the act that makes it abysmal or mindblowing? From a woman's perspective, I believe that the constant state of arousal during an affair greatly contributes towards the perception of affair sex being the 'best sex ever' at the time.

Of course, like most things, it's a combination of all the above. Attractiveness makes a big difference for me, frame of mind is important, lead up to the sex matters.. It all matters.

The thing is, if you look inside your "typical" A, you have all the elements for really exciting/good sex (for me personally) even before you've actually decided on an AP. Danger, excitement, forced separation and reunion. And then you add in the "other things", at least in my case, of "nothing off limits" during the sexual encounter? It's hard to see how, at least for the male AP, this wasn't coming close to "pinnacle level sex". For my WW, I don't know. What I do know, upon hearing the sexual details, I felt like I was in a foot race with a guy on a motorcycle. She gave him every "advantage", had sex in dangerous situations with him (that she never would with me), much more "permissive" during sex (did things with him she wouldn't do with me), much more "desiring" of sex from him, which, of course, built up his confidence while she'd ripped mine down for years. Basically, the AP in my case (and a lot of others) came to a knife fight and my W handed him a gun. Did everything she could to tie my hands behind my back during our M sex and make it as vanilla and uninteresting as possible while, at the same time, doing the opposite for the AP. Was their sex mindblowing? W says no. In some ways I believe her, even with "every advantage", if you can't perform well, you're still not going to be a rockstar. But I suspect that's more a man thing than woman; the sexual performance of a guy is very dependent on skill; women here have often reported that you can have "awful" sex with a guy who's impossibly good looking. IMHO, it's near impossible to have "awful" sex with an impossibly good looking woman, skill isn't required, just show up and it's gonna be pretty good for me. And show up in the specific circumstances of an A; with all the danger/stolen moments/public sex/no rules.. Well, and I suspect that's where the disconnect is, it's hard to see how that wouldn't be a pretty darn heady experience for me.

There are situations in both directions like mine. I recall a poster some time ago who's husband wouldn't let his wife give him a BJ. Affair was "all BJ's all the time". Or another common one, wouldn't do anything S/M with the wife, and then winds up in an A that's all whips and chains. Well, hard to see how that wouldn't be pretty darn amazing, but, much like my situation, it's because you've hobbled your partner, you didn't even let them "try" to be your best ever. It's part of the hurt that comes from the "He/she did things with the AP that they'd denied me". You never gave me a chance to be "your best".

Marriage Redux wrote:

Husband and I, are still parsing out how much of it was about sex.

RIO wrote:

Honestly, and I might get a smack for this, but I think it's pretty safe to make two "in general" assumptions when you're dealing with a lying WS who's motives you're trying to discern. If a male WS tells you "It was about sex", my general thought is "believe him".

I should step in here and say that, in Husband's defense (it feels odd to say that, but it's true, genuine and fair) he never said it was about anything but sexual arousal, and given the circumstances (a nearly anonymous encounter) I don't know how it could be about anything else.

When I say, "How much of it was about sex," the alternatives do not include love, friendship, relationship, etc.

We've been parsing out how much of it was about personal agency, going Single Man Mode on a trip out of town, impulsiveness, immaturity, curiosity, opportunity, etc.

Of course, while those things may help explain what happened, none of those things excuse what happened. We aren't exploring these concepts as a way of minimizing or excusing, but as a way of understanding.

In particular, it is a way of understanding that has the capacity to help me feel safe in the here and now.

There is something irrevocable and reality altering about realizing that your partner gave himself/herself permission to cross that line, even once, even years ago.

Even though it may have happened years ago, in a different time, in a different place, in different circumstances- it happened. One of you cheated, and quite likely, the other of you did not.

I do give Esther Perel credit for this observation, and I think it applies here, for us: in any bonded relationship between two people, one person is likely more concerned about abandonment, and the other person is likely more concerned about losing autonomy.

Perel posits that the person who is most concerned with maintaining autonomy is the partner most likely to cheat.

This is us.

To this day I deal (mostly on my own, between my own two ears) with abandonment issues, because I have very real and deep early trauma in that area. I suppose I will always deal with abandonment issues because my past will never unmake itself. BUT- I have an overarching understanding of what those issues are, and why, and I cope with them pretty well. I'm not a particularly clingy person by nature and I am not Velcro'd to my husband nor to anyone else. (I'd personally find that extremely claustrophobic.)

Thus no one, and I mean NO ONE, was and is more surprised at the depth and strength and persistence of my reaction to Husband's one indiscretion than me. Evidently my husband, my veritable rock, having a moment of clay feet, was a direct and grievous hit to my abandonment issues.

Husband's FOO is notoriously controlling, and I believe as a result, Husband clings mightily to autonomy, sometimes to idealistically unrealistic degrees.

Per above, I am not a clingy person- I need my own space- and for reasons I haven't fully explored, the very act of clinging doesn't help my abandonment issues. I actually cope better while standing apart, on my own two feet. I guess that kind of makes sense: what is the antidote to neediness? to a fear of being abandoned? For me, it's feeling confident, competent, independent and autonomous in my own right.

Ergo I had and have a lot of empathy for Husband's need for autonomy, to the point where I often tolerated it to a ridiculous degree. It caused stress at the extremes but I dealt with it by not trying to change him.

So Husband got very comfortable with demanding and receiving a good deal of autonomy and latitude and freedom to move through the world bound to his own sense of decorum and decency without a lot of parameters and boundaries from me. I didn't like some of it, and I did feel like my boundaries were being pushed and tested, and that felt disrespectful to me, and I communicated that- but a) it didn't change anything, and b) ultimately it wasn't about me at all. I understood that at a gut level so I learned to pick my battles.

But all of Husband's at times colorful autonomy hinged on one pretense: NO CHEATING. I am trusting you, and your at times questionable work hours and very, very, very late nights (well into the wee hours of the morning) out with friends and your sense that you make your own rules- don't give me a reason to question you!

Ergo it came as an extra packed punch when I realized that, as just about anyone could have predicted, years later Husband had to admit that he'd demanded enough rope to hang himself.

You just don't keep testing the boundaries without finding them eventually. =(

Part of what wrecked my train and made me madder than hell was realizing that, even after this indiscretion had occurred, Husband kept on insisting on my blind trust and his unfettered autonomy. He kept right on keeping on with the "I DID IT, MY WAY!" theme, even though he had quite clearly busted the trust on which he was heavily leaning to justify hours and behaviors that most married people would consider at least questionable, if not suspicious.

His logic is that he stepped over that line once, he hated himself for it, and there was even less chance of anything like that happening again, because he hated himself for doing it once. Whether he was out with friends until 8pm or until 4am the following morning, the outcome would be the same: no additional cheating.

It was an incredibly myopic, stubborn, selfish and in many ways naive position to take.

Now even he is amazed at his own hubris and immaturity, and he fully realizes and understands that he created further stress and doubt for me, even now, and added insult to injury.

I don't believe he ever cheated again (and I get the logic, it's just as easy to cheat at 9pm as it is to cheat at 2am) but I am now doubly outraged that he had the hubris and chutzpah to put me through the stress of lying awake, staring into the dark at 2am, 3am, 4am, OH LOOK! IS THAT DAYLIGHT? wondering where in the hell he was and when he'd come home this time, AFTER he knew damned good and well that he'd busted the trust! ARRRRGH. If I'd busted the trust and if I gave a shit about my marriage, nobody would have to draw me a damned picture about why continuing to test my spouse's trust and tolerance by staying out all damned night or working late for evenings on end (especially in one particular environment in which work shenanigans were rife and out in the open) was not the best idea.

In his mind, if he wasn't cheating, then that was it- he was holding up his end of the bargain, and he owed me no more.

Now, too late to do anything about it, the past cannot be changed, he has to deal with the fact that yes, he did blatantly cheat one time, and yes, he conducted himself in a manner and insisted on a degree of autonomy (for largely questionable reward on that investment, really, what did he get out of any of it? those friends and that job are long gone) that puts big chunks of his life and time into dubious territory, completely unnecessarily.

It's not a good look, even though I am as certain as any mortal woman can be that his infidelity was a one and done.

And he did this to himself.

So that's what I mean when I say that we are parsing out how much of this was actually sexually motivated, vs. how much of it was Husband following a misguided sense of himself around through his early years.

is there any WS we've ever seen here who said the sex was "best ever" with the AP? Or even just "better than my H/W"?

Yes.

Remorse, to me, is not denying or lying about reality. It’s not being gleeful about it. It’s not rubbing it in my H’s face or comparing him in a nasty way. As always, JMHO.

The AP was my ex. It’s entirely possible some of my H’s exes were better sex than I. Not everyone can be the best at everything.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 6:39 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Yes.

Remorse, to me, is not denying or lying about reality. It’s not being gleeful about it. It’s not rubbing it in my H’s face or comparing him in a nasty way. As always, JMHO.

Well, 2nd part, I agree with you completely. If it were the case (that the sex was better with OM), I would want to know that from my WW. Yes, I might D because of it, as I said before, I'm not sure I'd ever feel I could "top it" because some of the elements of an A simply cannot be replicated in a M. An A has an "unfair advantage" when it comes to sexual pleasure simply by virtue of the nature of the relationship. And I'm not sure I could live as "number 2" to the AP. But I'd respect her for telling me that, and I may be able to get past it, especially if she was open with the "why" it was so much better and had some ideas as to how we could improve our sex life together to take the "crown".

To your answer "yes", do I take that to mean sex was better in your A than with your H and you told him that? If so, well, I've been corrected, it does happen at least some of the time, but I'd still put forth that it's unlikely (to be told by your WS) and therefore, subject to scrutiny because the vast majority of people, no matter the actual answer, will give the "right answer", "no, you were always better".

RIO, yes, that particular ex was the best sex out of any partner—and while my “number” isn’t outlandish, it’s more than I’d like. It’s not something that can be replicated in the M, for a variety of reasons. My H and I haven’t had sex in 6 months...he’s well aware that I’m not interested, and obviously he isn’t either. Whatever; he’s the father of my very young kids; I can live without sex to give them an intact home.

We never had a discussion about who was better. In the first place, he decided to divorce me as soon as he found out I was cheating so we never discussed much of anything about the A. In the second place, that’s not a discussion I would ever have had—as I said, I don’t negatively compare partners to each other and I don’t ask them to compare me. It’s not a rating system or a contest.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 7:08 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

RIO, yes, that particular ex was the best sex out of any partner—and while my “number” isn’t outlandish, it’s more than I’d like. It’s not something that can be replicated in the M, for a variety of reasons. My H and I haven’t had sex in 6 months...he’s well aware that I’m not interested, and obviously he isn’t either. Whatever; he’s the father of my very young kids; I can live without sex to give them an intact home.

I think you've neatly summed up the reason that this is important to some people (myself included). Just take out the "we're not having sex" part and imagine your BH/BW still desires to have sex with you and you him/her. This is the kind of thing that gives people like me immense fear. Is she just staying for the kids/money? It's a real thing, as you've just detailed, it does happen (although it sounds like you're straight up about it, that's MUCH better than the alternative). Is my W giving me nothing but "pity sex" and wishing I was as "good" as the OM? IDK, but I can tell you, I lay awake at night and think/worry/dread about it.

I don’t negatively compare partners to each other and I don’t ask them to compare me. It’s not a rating system or a contest.

It's clearly a "rating system" because, you just rated them. Should it be? No, of course not. But we're human, we categorize things in our mind, and even if we don't want to, it's something that, at least I, fall victim to all the time. This is better than that, therefore "this" is worth more to me/more valuable. Now, for some people, this might be the case (A sex was better) but sex itself isn't that important to them. It's like the best pork chop in the world when you don't like meat. Yes, it's still better, but if you're not a big meat eater, it's not going to have the same impact on you that it will for someone who really loves pork. So, part of this discussion requires a "weighting factor", how important is sex to you personally. If it's very important AND the sex in the A was fantastic/better, well.. That's different than "not important" with great sex.

But I don’t “rate” them to each other. Answering a question about it on a support forum for the purpose of helping others is vastly different than telling another person “you’re not as good sexually as XYZ,” thereby making it into a de facto competition or something. The very idea is preposterous. If he is so damn interested in being someone’s best sex ever or it being a competition to be the most awesomest bestest, then he needs to find another woman for that.

He happens to agree with me about staying together because we brought children into this world and therefore have a responsibility to them. If he did not agree with that, again, he is free to leave. He is anyway, of course, as am I—but we are placing our kids above ourselves.

Answering a question about it on a support forum for the purpose of helping others is vastly different than telling another person “you’re not as good sexually as XYZ,”

It's vastly different, that much I agree with. And I'm not even sure we're disagreeing, what you said is exactly the "fear". Said or not, in your mind, you know X is better than Y. You don't need to say it for it to be true, you just know you prefer one thing to the other. And that's exactly the fear, how many of our WS's are thinking the same thing right now? Or when we're having sex with them? Some, I can promise you that. Mine? IDK, because, much like you said above, even if it's true, it'll never be said. That's a secret you take to your grave, or, alternately, you air to your friends (as my WH colleagues often do) or to anonymous forums or "cheater support" websites. But it's not unheard of. And the thought of it being my W is nearly impossible to bear.

No, it's not a competition, but.. It is a competition. Imagine if you were dating/about to marry a man and you could read his mind. In his mind, you heard "God, I wish she was as hot as my ex", "She's not nearly as good as this ex, I kind of wish I was marrying her" and lots of other comparisons that we're not SUPPOSED to make, but we do make. Or, maybe I'm just an asshole (entirely possible) and am the only one who thinks like this.. But, while I think the first part is likely true (I'm an asshole), I don't think the 2nd part is (the only one who thinks this way).

I don’t think you’re an asshole. I simply go back to what I said a few responses above—no one is the best ever, at everything. Some things? Sure. I’m pretty confident in my attractiveness, but I definitely know I’m not the prettiest or hottest woman ever. I don’t know any but one of my H’s exes; it’s quite possible one (or more than one) are hotter thanI. It’s quite possible he wishes I were as hot as such-and-so. Same thing sexually. I *used* to be very confident there—not so much anymore after years of hardly ever doing it—but still, even at my sexual best, I have zero doubt there were many, many women “better.” Possibly even women my H dated previously? But it’s not important to me to be The Best.

It used to be. I used to put a LOT of stock in being a partner’s prettiest, hottest, best (sexually). It was important to me and I derived esteem from it, and bolstered my self-image, inflated my ego. I ended up so full of myself, in fact, that I cheated.

That was all 10-20 years ago, everything I described. A lot has happened since then; a lot has changed. I don’t get my esteem from rocking a guy’s world anymore. I’m still a good looking girl but I’m not 25 either. I’m different inside, too. It’s just not important anymore. Now I’m more like “Meh—if I’m not ‘good enough’ for you, that’s not my problem.”

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:19 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

I realistically do think not being the best or the first is an issue. I am going to be honest.

My ex left me for someone she knew before we ever met. This high school sweethearts crap that is often an issue in more serious affairs. My biggest regret is delaying my own dating life because of my issues. Because of this issue, past partners.

My GF is better at sex than my ex. She is not better at everything. Having to make comparisons is not good.

Downgrades in life make people unhappy. It's why divorced people on average are an unhappy group. On average. Some are happy with it. Second marriages are happier than divorced, not as happy as first marriages. On average. If first spouse was a lemon, maybe easier to be happy. If of higher quality, maybe not.

DarknessFalls

Affairs are sex between two selfish, self-centered, disgusting, filthy, liars with no integrity destroying their spouses, their families, the spouses of the AP and the family of the AP. Once a wayward spouse becomes remorseful they see sex with their AP in this light because it is the truth. If they do not see sex with their AP in this light they are not remorseful.

After reading your comments the last couple of years I think it is obvious you do not love your husband and he probably does not love you. You have made this clear several times by saying you plan on leaving him when your children are grown so your case is different than most marriages. Yours is a loveless marriage. I also don't think you understand remorse as contrition/repentance or a personality change.

[This message edited by CreateAccount197 at 9:17 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Striver, say for the sake of argument your GF was *not* better sex than your ex. She’d still have redeeming qualities that WOULD make her better than your ex and would make you want to be with her, right?

My point is there are lots of reasons to be with someone or marry someone than that they’re the best sexual partner you’ve had. RIO says kids and money are bad reasons. I think “good potential father” and “good provider for the family” are actually excellent reasons. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Yes, I fucked up in remarrying him because of other serious incompatibility issues, but as I predicted, he IS a good father and a competent financial partner, and those are not meaningless qualities.

realistically do think not being the best or the first is an issue. I am going to be honest.

My ex left me for someone she knew before we ever met. This high school sweethearts crap that is often an issue in more serious affairs. My biggest regret is delaying my own dating life because of my issues. Because of this issue, past partners.

My GF is better at sex than my ex. She is not better at everything. Having to make comparisons is not good.

Downgrades in life make people unhappy. It's why divorced people on average are an unhappy group. On average. Some are happy with it. Second marriages are happier than divorced, not as happy as first marriages. On average. If first spouse was a lemon, maybe easier to be happy. If of higher quality, maybe not.

This is a very interesting train of thought here. One of the reasons that I am drawn to your posts is often I understand them but they are from a very different perspective than others that I have encountered and there is a lot in them that I like to "try on" in relevance to my situation.

I have never thought about downgrading/upgrading or in those terms. Typically, outside of the affair, I am monogamous and very much "love the one you are with" mentality. I have never done a lot of comparing. But, if I put myself in the context of what you are saying...I feel that I did upgrade in my second husband from my first. I was unhappy divorced, I was used to bein in a longterm relationship. The upgrade is noticeable when I think about it. First husband wasn't as sexual, he wasn't as evolved, he wasn't interested in learning, I was the breadwinner and assumed a mother role in that relationship. But, at the same time, we were much much younger and had been highschool sweethearts. But, to this day I have never regretted it because I know my life was better with my H. Knowing how I felt divorced, it certainly wasn't something I was anxious to go back to. I have evolved since that time as this was almost 30 years ago now, but I still imagined myself in the crappy apartment spending most of my time with the TV and having a string of terrible dates. In reality, I have a lot of hobbies and friends now and would well be able to afford a place that might be smaller but comparable in quality (at the time of the divorce I was a transplant in a new city on top of everything and my family disowned me for a time for getting divorced so I was very isolated).

When I think about how my husband and I share similar sensibilities, we understand how each other thinks, we share businesses together, we are compatible in most every way...I think I can certainly say the likelihood of a downgrade would be in my future no matter who I picked. I am not sure what that says really, but I found myself bucking against what you had to say at first, but then examining it, I think what you are saying is true at least to an extent. You may be more conscious of it because of your circumstances, and I was more unconscious of it - but that doesn't make it less true.

Remorse, to me, is not denying or lying about reality. It’s not being gleeful about it. It’s not rubbing it in my H’s face or comparing him in a nasty way. As always, JMHO.

I agree, DF. I think most WS know how the sex was at the time versus what it might look like now with remorse added to it. I just think sometimes the perception of some people on this site is if you aren't saying it was really just totally awesome sex then you must be downplaying it. In reality, sex is sex. For me, affair sex versus married sex is almost a strange lens to look at it because its all just sex.

I can agree with those pointing out that the state of mind can intensify a sexual experience. But, there are also factors that can counteract that intensity as well. And, I think that happens in all sex lives regardless of affair or marriage or whatever type of relationship you have. And the it's always in the eye of the beholder and what they value.

In my own case, I was having a lot of female issues that kind of would relate to impotence during the affair. I don't say that makes the sex less or more, or that it excuses it or downplays it...but it was a factual thing happening at the time - I assume it to be a side effect of emotional exhaustion. So, to me the affair sex was more about the touching and the attention. I believed I was in love with the person that I was doing it with, but it was not some adrenaline high nor did I really go in with high expectations given my current situation.

As far as marital sex, to me that's really where it is at. I do believe I am monogamist by nature and I do value long term love and all that entails. It's always been my goal to be the little old couple holding hands walking in the park sort of picture. At the time, I was having an exit affair and I would have (failingly believed) I was entering another monogamous relationship. I know that sounds very F'ed up but that was the mentality I was under at the time. I have obviously since been able to put a lot more thought into it and see where my constructs were so poorly put together.

And, Niceguy25- I do think it's entirely possible your wife believed she was in love with her AP, and then learned afterwards how misguided it was. Limerance - probably. To me because of the false confines of an affair the story telling is at a high. It's not like when you date your spouse and you fall in love, because you are really not free to be doing that. So, you construct the foundation and all the beliefs on story telling and not really looking at the reality. If you look at reality, you can't believe the story you are telling yourself. It's a very strange form of brainwashing. I thought I love the AP in my situation, but really I was just projecting a lot of things I wanted it to be, that I wanted him to be, and there wasn't any of that based in truth or reality. Feelings are changeable and malleable based on thoughts. She probably did have the actual feelings but what they were based on was all in her head and she likely knows that now. Once the limerence is up, it's a lot like having the carriage turn to a pumpkin at midnight.

CreateAccount197,

Be all that as it may, children became the priority once they were born, for both of us. Not sex. Not feelings of “in love,” or really even how we feel about each other at all. Just providing them a safe, stable home where they are treated well and raised to be good people. If that priority should change for him and he wants something else, he is free to go find it.

. I think “good potential father” and “good provider for the family” are actually excellent reasons.

I can tell you, just for myself, but if you said you wanted to marry me for those reasons I would RUN in the other direction. No, I don't want to be married just because I have a golden penis or "just for sex". But, yes, it's a VERY important part of the marriage relationship for me, far, far more so than "good father" and "good provider". I can be a good father and not be married, and being a "good provider" has to be up there for one of the worst possible things a woman could say to me, it's just a tiny bit shy of "leave a few hundred on the table" after sex.

I want a woman to want to be with me because I'm a good man, a good sexual partner, make her laugh, make her happy, and make her want to spend time with me. Not because I have a lot of money or happen to be good with children. There's nothing unique to "me" there, win the lotto/get a better job and find a good nanny and I'm replaced?

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, in fact, I think that the majority of wives I know are sticking around for reasons like this. But that has to be up there with my "worst nightmare" as a married man.

Darkness Falls

Being in a loveless marriage almost certainly affects your ability to understand affair dynamics. If you don't deeply love your spouse then you will not care as much about the pain you have caused them by cheating on them and if you know they don't love you then you will know your infidelity didn't hurt them as much or possibly not at all. If you do not experience the pain of a wayward I doubt you understand remorse. If you don't understand remorse then you can't comment on a wayward's understanding of sex with their AP before and after remorse.

A good test of remorse is if the wayward sees their sex with AP as sex between two selfish, self-centered, filthy, disgusting, destructive liars with no integrity. How can sex between two such people ever be good ? How can it be anything but repulsive ?

[This message edited by CreateAccount197 at 9:47 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

And I’m not saying you’re wrong, RIO. Different people have different priorities and no one is wrong in what they value.