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I did the phone scan and it gave me nothing. I did talk to her about what I was looking for and got more information about what I was looking for. She was more active in initiating things than I first thought, surprise, surprise.

She did send OBS a text, that I helped with, about the contact between them in the final days at work. No response, but not real surprising.

The very fact that she is not doing this, indicates that she is still very much wrapped up with herself. You are not a consideration. It is even worse if she considered it, but deemed it not worth her time nor effort.

I get this feeling sometimes. Other times I honestly feel like she is trying. So I waffle.

So she starts a new job. What makes you think that some of her friends from the old job will not stay in contact with her ( I'd say thats 100% going to happen). So whats you position going to be when she tells you some of the old crew are going out for drinks. You gonna believe for one second he will not out of the clear blue sky show up.???

I know she will stay in contact with her friends, she already has, I know that. I have read text messages as she has given me full access to her devices. I am well away he may try to take advantage of that. I am stupid, not blind.

Op, you need to get to the point that in order to save your marriage, you are willing to lose it. You must learn that you need to save yourself, because she's not going to be the hero here.

I get that, I thought I was the hero, but have learned that is not the case

I thought I was the hero, but have learned that is not the case

I hope you continue to work on yourself here and understand that this was not about you. We have to see ourselves the same way--and really like ourselves--no matter how others treat us. If friends and family decide to be hurtful, we have to put that entirely on them (assuming we know we've done nothing offensive) and detach from their actions at an emotional level, on the inside. You don't need to be and shouldn't want to be anyone's hero, you just need to be your normal awesome self. And when they do something awful that hurts you, it's because they have problems, issues, their own demons. You are still your normal awesome self. This is work only you can do by taking back the power you are giving people to impact the way you see yourself. Their actions should have little impact, even though I truly get how hard that is. It's the goal.

A husband cannot be anyone else's hero, just his own by doing right by himself. It was her job to do right by her, to live in a way that makes her feel proud. She failed, not you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:54 AM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

I really don't want to be anyone's hero, I just want to live a normal life. Marriage, kids, dogs.

I worked hard my whole life to give me and my family a good life. It was taken away from me. I don't blame myself, but it still hurts. Why did I work so hard, just to have it taken away from me. I earned respect from my colleagues only to get no respect from my wife. I didn't do things just for me, I worked to create a better life for us. When I retired, I took less money from my pension so she could get it when I was gone. I gave everything to her and my kids. Is there something wrong with that? Taking care of your family.

The betrayal is the worst part. I know she is broken but I did what I could. I lived my life the best I could, took care of things and got burned.

Rambling ad maybe feeling sorry for myself. Is what it is

Honestly, I would try and go back to work with your prior employer so that you can revisit your retirement protocols. I would then change the terms and leave her squat if you pass before her. Can you pick a different beneficiary? Sadly, if you divorce, she will likely get 1/2 of your pension.

achilles, I was the same. When I retired I took less pension so my XWW (wife at the time) would have more when I passed away. She's female and 6 years younger so the odds are she'll live longer than I. It reduced my pension considerably. I chose that she would get 66 2/3 of my pension so actuarily the pension I would get (which was for us as a couple, anyway) was much reduced.

When I made that decision it was stated on the legal form I signed that once this was decided it could not be changed. When I pass away, if I predecease my XWW, she will get 66 2/3 of my pension per month. I don't know the laws elsewhere but that is what applies here or with my pension.

I was able to not split any pension with my XW. She granted me that which she didn't have to and her lawyer tried to convince her to not agree to that. She actually had to sign a document absolving her lawyer from any action in the future for not doing so.

To be fair, my XWW doesn't feel it's right that she will benefit from my death but the decision was mine to make and I made it with eyes wide open because I wanted her to be looked after (along with all our other assets - reasonably substantial) when I passed. Her pension was unreduced because if she predeceased me I wouldn't need it. I also made that decision.

I gave everything to her and my kids. Is there something wrong with that?

Using this thinking, all of these should be true:

I am really good to everyone in the world, so they should be good to me. That is only fair.

I eat right and exercise, so I cannot possibly have cancer. That makes no sense. That's not what I was told would happen.

I have never committed any crimes or broken any laws, so nothing should ever be done to me. Good karma, right?

I took out expensive loans and went to college. I got good grades. So where is my good job?

I want to date this person and am very good to them, so why don't they want to date me? What's wrong with me? I do everything for them.

I raised my children well and loved them, but now they are busy. They don't call. I called and visited my parents, and now my kids don't do the same for me. It's not right. I don't deserve this.

All of this is common thinking: I do this, so I will get that. But none of this is accurate or even healthy thinking. Why not? Because you control you, only you. And your belief or expectation that your behavior will be met with equal behavior in the universe implies a fair and just world which will never exist. It also implies that other people are not allowed to make their own decisions about their own lives. And it lastly supposes that you can control the outcomes in life by doing what you believe will get you those outcomes. You cannot control the outcomes, only improve your chances.

I am not saying it's not normal to feel angry and hurt on your way to acceptance because it is normal. But we have to let go of what we think we are owed, of this false sense of entitlement, if we want to find appreciation for what we actually have. The feeling of true gratitude and appreciation brings contentment and peace. When we feel grateful for this day, this life, the things we do have, we feel a true sense of peace and serenity.

To avoid the same trap of "I'll act this way so I'll get that," I now really question if I want to do things. I spend more time NOT doing things for others and use those additional resources in ways that bring me joy. Selfishness? Only those who struggle with some codependency issues see self-care and nurturing as selfishness. The golden rule for giving: only do or give if you have zero expectations in return. That includes my spouse and family. If I want to make dinner because I want to sit with them, then I do it. When they forget to say it's awesome or help me with the dishes, I either ask for what I need or let it go. The next day I say, "Make dinner even though they may not appreciate?" Yes because I want time with them. Or no because I want to watch another episode of The Crown on Netflix and relax. And that's how it goes. I do what feels good but with zero expectations.

In my view, Achilles, people who live the whole, "I do everything for you because I love you and it's right. I go the extra mile. I take care of you," have a history back in childhood of trying to keep peace at home this way. It's a learned quality, and we get very upset (and hurt!) in adulthood when our generous nature is taken advantage of. But honestly, it was never a good plan to sacrifice our own needs and bank on the gratitude of others. It worked when we were young, but it left us vulnerable and with no one taking care of us. Our job is to take care of ourselves. Gratitude is never a guarantee. Lots of people learned to be selfish or avoidant in childhood as their coping methods, and they think nothing of taking advantage or shutting us out.

As a side note on this, my life philosophy was simple early on: be good to people and they'll be good to me. If they're not, it's obviously because I've done something wrong. I didn't learn this by accident; my family taught (and still teaches!) this all the time in their treatment of me. I had to unlearn both parts. The world will not give me what I want if I am good to it. I have to take care of me and give me what I emotionally need. And if something goes wrong with someone, I did not do anything wrong to deserve it. Bad things happen to good people, and it's f@cking unfair! It's on them or the messed up world, but I am not getting down on me. I am proud of the way I treat people and behave in this world, and that's all there is to it.

Please do not see what your WW has done as a reflection on you in any way. That's old thinking from childhood, most likely. You were good to her. Be proud of that. The rest of the shit is on her to own, so judge her and see her as broken. Not you. Tell yourself nice things to counter the hurt. I know it sounds corny, but we have to be our own best friends in this.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:42 AM, November 28th (Saturday)]

I do what feels good but with zero expectations.

IDK ... I still have expectations. I just know that they're crazy. I know I still think being attentive in sex will prevent As, even though contrary evidence stares me in the face every day.

Maybe the problem isn't the expectations themselves but, rather, building up anger/resentment or attacking self or others when the expectations aren't met. IOW, it may be impossible not to have expectations, but it is eminently possible to avoid getting angry if the expectations aren't met.

Also, doing what feels good works best - or only - if one opens oneself up to both give and receive. Also, probably, the more sources of joy one recognizes, the more this attitude works. For example, making dinner for a teenager isn't going to result in a lot of warm fuzzies from the teenager. Parents of teenagers can and may have to give themselves warm fuzzies for taking care of the darlings.

And sometimes one doesn't have a real choice - one has to give, even when one doesn't want to. In those cases, it's probably best to choose to do what circumstances forces one to do, which is apparently something Nietzsche said - make a choice of necessity.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:12 AM, November 28th (Saturday)]

I did the phone scan and it gave me nothing.

For any new BS reading this..let this be a lesson for you. The longer you wait to scan,then less you will get. For best results, do it immediately.

Please,please don't allow any more contact between her and the OBS. My God. That had to be a gut punch. You should have been the one to contact her.

Honestly, I would try and go back to work with your prior employer so that you can revisit your retirement protocols. I would then change the terms and leave her squat if you pass before her. Can you pick a different beneficiary? Sadly, if you divorce, she will likely get 1/2 of your pension.

I can't change it now. Once I made the decision, pre D Day, on my pension it can't be changed. Yep she gets half, gotta love no fault states.

To be fair, my XWW doesn't feel it's right that she will benefit from my death but the decision was mine to make and I made it with eyes wide open because I wanted her to be looked after (along with all our other assets - reasonably substantial) when I passed. Her pension was unreduced because if she predeceased me I wouldn't need it. I also made that decision.

I made the exact same decision, little did I know less than a year later I would find out about the affair

I do this, so I will get that. But none of this is accurate or even healthy thinking.

I don't know that I was expecting anything, except for my wife to be faithful. I did what I did because it it was the right thing to do. In my line of work it was easy to get cynical after seeing the evil that people can do to each other, I saw it. I didn't want to be like that, so I kind of had a mantra of believe but check it out to verify. If something didn't seem right, it probably wasn't. It didn't mean there couldn't be a logical explanation. Even after all I have seen and experienced, I think people are generally good. Sure there are some that are not, I am not so naive to believe otherwise. Do bad things happen to good people? Yes, one of my daughters has a serious medical condition through no fault of her own.

I am a man of my word, if I tell you something, it will happen. So when we said our wedding vows, I expected both of us to keep them. Can my son tell me he is going to take out the garbage and then forget? Sure, but I don't get as worked up about that as I do my wife cheating on me.

Sisoon, I also have expectations, both of myself and others. If I fail to meet my expectations I have to evaluate why and make corrections. If others fail to meet expectations I have to evaluate and see if it was something I did (unobtainable expectations) or something they did. Like cheating.

Please,please don't allow any more contact between her and the OBS. My God. That had to be a gut punch. You should have been the one to contact her.

Why? Gut punch for who? She blocked me after I contacted her and never told me about the affair following his D Day. We had no choice. He knew what would happen, we sent him a no contact letter. I think after not telling me, blocking me and rugsweeping everything, I really had to do it, not to hurt her but for closure for me. I finally put myself first. Kind of like finally doing the phone scan even though I didn't get anything from it. Funny thing is she told me what I was looking for in the scan and didn't get.

Just an aside, I did one other thing just for me that gives me great pleasure. Probably not what everyone is thinking, but I bought a classic car and it gives me some peace. Sometimes I just start it up and listen to the sound of the exhaust and let my mind wander. Good for my soul. I don't think the neighbors like it so much but thats ok.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 4:25 PM, November 28th (Saturday)]

A gut punch to his wife. No betrayed wife wants to be blindsided by the woman who had a 4 year affair with their husband.

She blocked you? Or he blocked you? Most likely it was her husband.

Its easy enough to send her an email from a new account.

I'm glad you bought the car. Lord knows you deserve something just for yourself.

Wasn't trying to hurt her. She blocked me mid text stream following my call. He may have suggested it, but she did it. I don't have her email. I made a decision that was best for me, some may have been hurt by it, but I needed to do it for me. I guess I could have borrowed a phone from somebody, but what if she texted back? At least I could monitor it. As selfish as it sounds, she made a lot of choices here. She failed to notify me when she found out initially. I get it was less than desirable, but it is better than me going to HR with this now that my wife is gone. I thought about it and discarded the idea. Ultimately he is to blame for the pain the text may have caused. He was told and failed to head the warnings.

The car is awesome, my family thinks I'm nuts. Sometimes I drag them out to sit or ride with me. Bonding I guess

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 5:50 PM, November 28th (Saturday)]

The car is awesome, my family thinks I'm nuts. Sometimes I drag them out to sit or ride with me. Bonding I guess

Can't argue with you here; I love the classic cars. EXTREMELY therapeutic.

The car is awesome, my family thinks I'm nuts. Sometimes I drag them out to sit or ride with me. Bonding I guess

This is awesome. Nobody needs to like the car but you. And other car lovers.

How you doing, achilles?

You didn't hurt the OBS. Her cheating husband did. The officer who might inform a parent about their child being killed in a car accident didn't kill the child. He's delivering the ugly news. The OBS deserved to know. What she does with the information is up to her. Could be the WH (your WW's AP) who blocked or intercepted the message.

Well, what kind of car did you buy?

MG? 1964 Mustang? E-type Jag? MB Gullwing? Duesenberg? CORD????

If you can share and maintain your anonymity, please do.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:38 AM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

I am hanging in there. She seems to be making progress but it is uneven. She even gave me an old I Pod so I could monitor her texting whenever I want. I know it doesn't preclude other types of communication, but a step in the right direction.

I bought a 1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie fastback with a big block and four speed manual transmission. It has a healthy cam and the sweetest sounding exhaust. The car is beautiful and needs nothing, although I am already looking at things to do to it. I have wanted one for years, so it is a dream come true for me. Hammering the gas and running through the gears brings a huge grin to my face. Pure joy.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 5:30 PM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

Neat.

You are in the process of Analysis until Paralysis

Fundamentally, when you put these two factors together, you get Limbo, as one exacerbates the other. Putting fuel in to the fire.

The People Please part wants to please everyone else, but themselves, and they would rather forgo their own needs/wants so that others get their needs/wants fulfilled. A martyr complex.

Then comes the analysis part; where the person overthinks the analysis, and hence does not accept it. Nothing will ever be good enough, because it does not fit their own internal results that they have already predetermined internally. This end-result may or may not be conscious.

Until you can break free of these two factors, you will not be able to move on with your life. This does NOT mean you have to D, but you will have to make a choice, or you would be slipping into the mindset of a wayward (hint: cake-eating, in that you want everything, but not willing to give up anything).

Incisive. Precisely where I was last year and even earlier this year.

I don't think so. Certainly I have been. I am much more in control of myself now. I do things for myself. I am more sure of what I need. Tonight I told her I don't have to know where she is at, only where I think she is at. I don't need to read minds, only know what I can see and feel. That is a huge distinction.

I have always done what I think is right. Did it cost me sometimes? Sure, but I can hold my head high. I don't blame myself anymore. The sad thing is if I had treated her as poorly as her AP did I may not be in this place. Unfortunately, that is not who I am. I am more comfortable with that now.

It's OK to be a good person even if you get hurt. I am a big boy and while I wallowed in misery for a long time, I am good with myself.

I still hurt, but I will be Ok.

Besides, I have my Galaxie I can always escape to.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:41 PM, December 7th (Monday)]