SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are doing all of the right things. There are a lot of opinions on this forum but make sure you are doing what is right for you and your family. Do not rush into hasty decisions based on feedback from this site. It took a lot of counseling for my WS to become safe. The speed at which your wife "succumbed" IS concerning and needs to be addressed in IC for sure. IC might be helpful for you as well as infidelity is a trauma. It was really helpful for me to break down my feelings and to make decisions. I vote for a lie detector test. It will help you get out of limbo, which is a terrible place to be. There can be no lying or dishonesty on the part of the WS if you are considering giving the gift of R.

Dan, you've received lots of good responses. Among other things you're asking yourself "why?" and " what's next?".

I particularly think Butforgrace's post on page 42 would be helpful to you.

I have a few comments:

1 - Whatever she reads you need to read too.

2 - Although she has a long way to go, I hear her being more honest with you - as well as herself (so there's progress).

3 - Acknowledging that she has an uncontrollable & self destructive 'need' is a positive step and a prerequisite for productive IC. Based on what I've heard so far it's likely that she is fixable.

4 - Give yourself at least 90 days before deciding to R or D.

5 - Next time (tonight) you take control by initiating scheduling the talk as well as the topics.

QUESTION: what are your plans for you & her's living arrangements over the holidays?

The current arrangement isn't sustainable.

Maybe after a week (or sooner) of productive talks she can move into the spare bedroom.

Did she agree to take a polygraph? Most ws agree to it, because if they say no,that's a clear indication that they're lying. They agree because they don't think thier BS will actually follow through with having them take it. Follow through. Even if she gives you what is called a parking lot confession. That's when they wait until the last minute to drop some major truth in your lap hoping you will believe they've now told you everything,and won't insist on the test. Always insist on the test.

She's still lying and minimizing. She says she never thought she would be caught, then says she was having panic attacks at the thought of being caught.

The swiftness of this whole affair is alarming. I'm your wife's age. She had to be throwing out major signals for him to have kissed her hours after she first met him. And,for a grown woman to agree not to wear panties under her dress to please a strange man, just blows my mind. The creep factor with this guy is off the charts. That she was so willing to allow this man to touch her,tell her what not to wear,etc, tells me she either has done this before, or she has been open to an affair for a long time.

Well, this is my first full day of work/tracking my wifes every movement. I have been at the office for an hour and a half and I think I have checked the locator and phone logs 10 times. I hate this shit!

I think that I will follow the advise that some of you gave and burn that dress in the fire pit. I was up again last night going over everything in my head. If I was a prosecutor, the no panties thing would show real intent to commit a crime.

Luckily, I should have the VAR recording of our entire conversation. I want to go over her answers about the under or over her pants touching again. I have a feeling that I will be playing that song for years to come.

Yes, she did agree to a poly. Should I go through with it?

Yes. You need to know if she is being truthful. Plus, you might get a parking lot confession of something she has not told you. The degree to how fast this moved is astounding. I am fearful that she has done more than she has said.

Dan - I would encourage the poly.

Simply, you're going to hear a lot of voices telling you this isn't her first time, but also throwing very crude references to her behavior to color how you feel about her and move you along to join the divorce club. That may actually be the best solution for you. But I'd rather see you reach it from a place of knowing facts and not being triggered to an emotional state.

A poly is a yes or no question test. So asking her questions such as "Is this the only time you've cheated on me?" will get an appropriate response. A poly cannot test a why question though. So finding out WHY will come from IC - not from the support group you have here, and not from looking at her behavior.

There's a lot of good here. And at the same time, there are a lot of people here in pain who see behaviors you've shared in the darkest possible light, because they themselves were once deceived by similar behaviors - they want to help you avoid the pain of that deception. However, it's all supposition and not factual in your situation. You need to find the facts of yours and her story. You'll find that some of what you've been told here will be absolutely true. But it can color how you see her in a way that is not true.

Dan ... regarding her attending the party (going out in public) with no panties. It's sexual but it also may be viewed as submissive behavior.

Among other things, it's something a dominant may require while training/grooming a submissive.

Is your wife submissive or has she ever expressed an interest in someone taking control?

My point is that a submissive could get off on appearing in public (under his command) without sex.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 9:32 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

Robert's post brings up an interesting point. I am going through this with WW and if Spring Roll somehow appealed to some sort of fetish it could be something that runs deeper than just the A.

She has always been somewhat submissive in the bedroom.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:50 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

On one hand, burning the dress in the fire pit gives it some sort of mystical power, maybe cleansing in some way. Signifying a renewal of your marriage. Like

a Phoenix. if you do it, she must be there right next to you.

OTOH, if you throw it in the trash with the banana peels, old cans and cat litter (if you don't have a cat, ask a neighbor) it signifies something else, what your wife was willing to do to the marriage for some strange.

OTOOH donate it to goodwill, another woman will hopefully wear it with pride, to feel pretty for her husband not a POSOM

I guess I am feeling philosophical today.

If you are like me, if you burn it, it would take a long time to not think of the dress when ever i\I used the firepit...

Allow her back in the house in the spare room, that way you will have more access to the VAR and watch her state of mind, quick answers to questions if you want to revisit a particular day, etc., I would get the family together in the living room and require she give everyone a heartfelt apology and ask for forgiveness for her HUGE deliberate betrayal (not mistake), when she's done with it, tell her you will not make a decision for now and that the M hangs in the balance and depends on 100% honesty, transparency and commitment, and that the slightest "mistake" and or lie (even by omission) will result in automatic D. She would need intense therapy in IC to find out her "whys" (you should get some too to deal with the trauma). Also schedule a polygraph and on the day of the test ask her to go for a ride and when you get to the parking lot, tell her what she's there for and that she has one last chance at telling the truth no matter how hurtful it may be.

I'm not an expert in D/S (although I worked with someone that was a member of black rose) they insist in publications that it's not about sex ... that they get gratification without the sex. That's what my COW confirmed too.

It would help explain some things:

- speed of the affair

- willingness to be groped and kissed even though it disgusted her afterward

- accepting your attending the xmas party without argument (you just took charge/control and she submitted)

- willingness to move to the sister's house without an argument (control again)

-willingness to resign immediately (you in control)

- her comment that she never felt good enough for you (reveals a vulnerability)

Finally, your initial comment that she'd never cheat because you could replace her quickly sounds like a guy that felt in control. So a part of this mess may be a D/S theme between you two that neither of you were aware of.

How long was she trying to talk you out of going to the party?

Dan,

She has admitted that she would not have worn panties to the party if you had not gone and that she intended to have more "private time" with OM.

OM was upset that you showed up.

This all leads to one conclusion. They both planned to have sex and were looking forward to it until she showed up with you.

Now you have to decide if you are willing to accept what she has done and stay married.

You have to decide if you can trust her again.

You have to decide if you are better off staying married to her or not.

If your daughters start blaming you for not rug sweeping her affair and just getting over it, you need to provide them with more of an explanation than "she got too close" with a coworker.

But I do advise to take your time with this decision. The betrayal is recent and raw. Best not to make a life changing decision while you are so angry.

If you decide to do a poly and I strongly suggest you do you will get 3 or 4 questions so you want ones that are weighing on your mind now. They need to be fully explained to your WW so there is no ambiguity to your WW. For example, is a bj sex or not, etc. It is sex, BTW, but I expect you know that. So questions could be whether she has had any intimate contact with anyone else since marriage, or since engagement or since dating? Did she have PIV sex with miniature spring roll? Was there a place arranged for her to go with him after the party? Just suggestions. I would also hold out the right for additional Poly in the future. You're so new to this there could be a lot more questions that come later.

There is one more uncomfortable detail to deal with that I d not think you addressed.

The night in the car when they made out and the french guy touched your wife intimately, did your wife say she did not do likewise with/to him either by hand or mouth? Condom usage?

it seems to me that the jerk was a bit goal oriented, would have pushed for something.

You need to find that out, if only to know your risk of STDs.

Forgive me if this has been discussed somewhere in this huge thread.

"How long was she trying to talk you out of going to the party?"

Since the about 10 days before. But it got more forceful in the last 4 or 5 days.