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Reconciliation :
Recon vs divorce

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 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 5:54 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

I still haven't 100 percent decided which way to go. I'm in a pickle. Anyway, I was abusive in the past and am currently talking with a counselor and working on that portion and healing from the infidelity. I do talk about the affair in front of my step-son but I don't do this intentionally. He happens to be around when I bring it up and its not right so I do need to fix that. My wife states that I need to try and work with her but right now I don't know if that's what I want. She posts on here as well and everyone is telling her to run from me because of my abuse. The truth is I am working on it and have been better. I still get angry of course because I am in pain and my wife doesn't show me empathy. Ya she is in IC, ya she stopped cheating. But is that enough? I don't feel like she brings herself to the point that she feels how hurt I really am. She can say that she feels shitty and shameful but those are just words. I shouldn't have to make this decision, it's been about 6 months since I found out and I feel like I am being rushed and she just wants to sweep it away. I get more empathy from her son then I do from her. I'm scared to lose him and right now just trying to spend as much time with him as possible.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8661625
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 6:15 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

I am sorry you are struggling right now. I feel for you.

But please leave your son out of this. He is a child and should not be put in the middle of this situation. He is an innocent here and should not have to shoulder any A-related burdens or feel like he has to. That's way too much for a kid to have to deal with.

Can you and your ww maybe set aside specific time when your son is not present to have discussions about all this? After he goes to bed? Or if he is with another family member? I know when I was in it, everything was so overwhelming that I tended to just kinda barf things up and it did help having dedicated time to discuss things.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3820   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: Louisiana
id 8661636
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landclark ( member #70659) posted at 6:34 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

So in April, you said she was there for you, was doing all the right things, etc. Was that not true? You also admitted to verbally and emotionally abusing your wife the whole marriage.

The timing of your posts are also interesting. She reaches out for help and then you immediately do the same giving a different story.

The choice to cheat is on her just as the choice to be abusive and involve your son is on you. You do actually have control over it. You shouldn't be looking to a child for empathy. If you truly love him, you need to stop damaging him.

Are you in IC? Because you seem to need it just as much as she does.

Look, I am a BS, and I get the extreme anger and such. However, I think you need to spend a minute or two and start looking at yourself here and what YOU are choosing to do. You clearly are not happy in the relationship and that's fine, nobody expects you to be after cheating. Nobody expects you to be healed or committing to R at 6 months out. It's a huge betrayal. However, you need to be helping yourself here. I would strongly recommend a separation until you figure it out and find a IC to work through your abuse issues.

Me: BW Him: WH (GuiltAndShame) Dday 05/19/19 TT through August
One child together, 3 stepchildrenTogether 13.5 years, married 12.5

First EA 4 months into marriage. Last ended 05/19/19. *ETA, contd an ea after dday for 2 yrs.

posts: 2051   ·   registered: May. 29th, 2019
id 8661643
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 7:44 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

I get more empathy from her son then I do from her. I'm scared to lose him and right now just trying to spend as much time with him as possible.

If memory serves, he is ELEVEN. He shouldn't be treated as a confidante in this situation. It's not age appropriate. In fact, it's incredibly injurious. Do an internet search on "Adultification". What you'll find out is that this kind of treatment can cause anxiety, depression, codependancy, and a whole bunch of other problems. So, you need to find another buddy to talk to about your feelings, and not this kid.

From reading a few of your back posts, I think what you're worried about to some degree is that you'll eventually lose him. But really, regardless of what happens in the marriage, that's up to you. My relationship with my stepfather has lasted for over forty years. We don't live in the same state, and he was only married to my mother for about a year and a half, but he's been in our lives ever since. It's a matter of being interested and putting in the time to see what's going on with your stepson, right? So, I think if you can let go of some of your anxiety that he's going to slip away from you, it'll be easier just to enjoy his company doing the age appropriate things that will help build your relationship. Remember that oversharing emotionally with a child doesn't bring you closer together. It's a wedge which drives you further apart because kids aren't equipped to deal with adult issues and emotions. If you bear in mind that every time you overshare, you're pushing him away, I think that will help train you not to do it.

I would also recommend to you that you double-down in therapy resolving some of the issues which are making you feel bad about yourself. You're so down on YOU that it's making it impossible for you to heal. Remember, the key to healing is learning to love and respect yourself again. And you're NOT doing that. Not even close. So, if you can put off your decision on the marriage for awhile, maybe even a whole year, you can really work these other angles so that you're feeling good about YOU. After that, I'm betting that you'll know what you want. You've got all these big decisions hanging over your head, like starting a family and buying a house. It's okay to put those things on hold while you get yourself together. Then you can decide what you want regarding your marriage, and THEN whether you want a child and a new home. If you can do YOU in situ, great. If not, a therapeutic separation while you work on your issues. But I do think that if you take some time and prioritize self-satisfaction, that you'll be making progress. For healing to occur, you've GOT to learn to be content with yourself. It's necessary.

ETA:

I shouldn't have to make this decision, it's been about 6 months since I found out and I feel like I am being rushed and she just wants to sweep it away.

You DON'T have to make any decisions until you're ready. If your WW doesn't like it, she's free to leave, and frankly, if she does, that tells you something about her. It's perfectly okay to take the time you need so that you can breathe and heal. It's alright to set limits and boundaries on what you're willing to do and what you're willing to tolerate. These are actually good things and can help you feel steadier so that you're not getting flooded. It's okay to just ALLOW the doubt. If you're feeling rushed, take control of your timetable and make it respond to YOUR needs, not the other way around.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 1:57 PM, May 21st (Friday)]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6800   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8661670
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 8:28 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

I do talk about the affair in front of my step-son but I don't do this intentionally. He happens to be around when I bring it up and its not right so I do need to fix that.

Brother, I mean this to be helpful and not harsh: Come on, man. Don't think about fixing it. Fix it now, today.

Look, the entire thing is an awful shit sandwich. My WW brought her AP into our home for unprotected sex. She involved my kids in the affair.

I understand the anger. I understand the red haze of pain.

But stop dragging this poor kid into this. He's what, 11 years old? That's the same age as my son.

I would never demean my WW to my son. NEVER.

If he's "around" then you man up, hold your tongue, and find another time and place to talk about it. You don't have to pretend it didn't happen either. But dragging kids into it constantly is not OK.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8661684
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 8:51 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

Anyway, I was abusive in the past and am currently talking with a counselor and working on that portion and healing from the infidelity.

Are you abusive now? Are you being abusive to your stepson?

I don't have a lot of tolerance for abusers.

This thread by you seems oddly timed. Am I right?

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:52 PM, May 21st (Friday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8661690
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 8:54 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

If there wasn't a child involved, I would say you can give it some time before making a decision, but since there is, my advice is straightforward: Get divorced.

I think that, based on how abysmally you both have behaved, your marriage is irrevocably broken and it's far too unsafe of an environment in which to raise a healthy child.

Also, the impression I get isn't that your wife is rugsweeping or rushing you to get over it; she just doesn't want to abused by you and doesn't want you to confide in your son or discuss the affair around him, which are perfectly sane and reasonable requests.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:55 PM, May 21st (Friday)]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1502   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8661691
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 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 9:01 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

The only thing I am doing that pertains to abuse is that I bring up the affair around my step son. Other than that hell no, I have never been abusive towards him at all. My wife and I bicker at each other, it's just hard. She claims I never give her credit but I shouldn't have to. She shouldnt need credit for fixing herself. Maybe I'm wrong for that but frankly could care less. I am not abusing my wife or at least not like before....I am working on it. I will stop bringing my son into it. I get everyone's point and that will end today.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8661692
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stubbornft ( member #49614) posted at 9:21 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

Are you talking physical abuse? Like you used to hit your wife?

Me: BS 40 Him: WS 51 He cheated with massage parlor sex workersDday 01/19/2021
Kicked him out in 2021 - life is better on the other side. Moved on with the help of a wonderful therapist.

posts: 846   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2015   ·   location: TX
id 8661697
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landclark ( member #70659) posted at 9:33 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

I am not abusing my wife or at least not like before

So how are you continuing to abuse her? Even a little bit of abuse is still abuse.

Me: BW Him: WH (GuiltAndShame) Dday 05/19/19 TT through August
One child together, 3 stepchildrenTogether 13.5 years, married 12.5

First EA 4 months into marriage. Last ended 05/19/19. *ETA, contd an ea after dday for 2 yrs.

posts: 2051   ·   registered: May. 29th, 2019
id 8661699
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 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 9:42 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

No never any physical abuse. I just get angry and yell at her and how stupid she was for what she did. I used to put her down and I guess I still do that but only as it pertains to her affair.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8661704
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stubbornft ( member #49614) posted at 9:54 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

Talking about this when the kid can hear is wrong and I am glad to see you are stopping that immediately.

Could you and the wife start couples counseling with someone that specializes in betrayal trauma? It might help to have a 3rd party there. It also might help to have set times each day that you discuss the affair and how you are doing. So that the issues don't boil over. It might be easier to save it if you know you will be able to talk at 6pm for example.

A marriage counselor that specializes in betrayal trauma could help a lot. My MC is my WH's IC and he told my WH to put up an invisible shield when I am upset, that I am going to sometimes raise my voice, etc. I do NOT know your situation so if you are truly emotionally abusing her then you need to get away from her and get help. BUT, yelling at your wife for fucking someone else - well I don't know if that is abuse. It would be a good talk with a professional.

[This message edited by stubbornft at 4:03 PM, May 21st (Friday)]

Me: BS 40 Him: WS 51 He cheated with massage parlor sex workersDday 01/19/2021
Kicked him out in 2021 - life is better on the other side. Moved on with the help of a wonderful therapist.

posts: 846   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2015   ·   location: TX
id 8661706
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 10:29 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

She claims I never give her credit but I shouldn't have to. She shouldnt need credit for fixing herself. Maybe I'm wrong for that but frankly could care less. I am not abusing my wife or at least not like before....I am working on it.

Well, like you said earlier, you're feeling "rushed". You do have control of that though. How does it feel to you if you say, "I'm not going to make my stay or go decision on this marriage for six more months? or for one year?" If you feel some relief, say it out loud. All she can do is say 'no' and at that point, you'll know it wouldn't have worked out anyway. You are NOT required to make a new commitment until/unless you are absolutely READY to do that.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6800   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8661710
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stubbornft ( member #49614) posted at 10:45 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

She claims I never give her credit but I shouldn't have to. She shouldnt need credit for fixing herself. Maybe I'm wrong for that but frankly could care less. I am not abusing my wife or at least not like before....I am working on it.

Well, like you said earlier, you're feeling "rushed". You do have control of that though. How does it feel to you if you say, "I'm not going to make my stay or go decision on this marriage for six more months? or for one year?" If you feel some relief, say it out loud. All she can do is say 'no' and at that point, you'll know it wouldn't have worked out anyway. You are NOT required to make a new commitment until/unless you are absolutely READY to do that.

Agree with Camomile! I keep thinking I have to decide right now what path to take but she is 100% here, you can take time.

Our MC said not to make big decisions for 6 months to a year.

I also get upset when my WH acts like he isn't getting credit. When I am not upset I can acknowledge the work he is doing in IC and his men's group, however, I feel he isn't doing enough to help me heal from what he has done and it sounds like you are feeling the same. I feel like the work he is doing is for himself (which I agree is important) but I do get frustrated when he isn't being empathetic when I am upset. His IC is working with him on empathy right now. But it is quite the pill to swallow knowing that he is trying to learn to give a shit... He is deep in shame and freezes when I get upset. Sucks for me...

Me: BS 40 Him: WS 51 He cheated with massage parlor sex workersDday 01/19/2021
Kicked him out in 2021 - life is better on the other side. Moved on with the help of a wonderful therapist.

posts: 846   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2015   ·   location: TX
id 8661712
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 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 10:50 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

That is how I feel. Everyone on here just tells her to focus on herself and she does so but what about me? What about my pain? Ya it's good she is working on herself but is that really enough? She says she wants to talk but then i get out of hand and we argue.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8661713
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 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 10:52 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

But not that I want it from him but my step son shows me empathy when he sees me down. I don't expect it at all but he is there for me and really shows me how much he loves me. I wish my wife did the same but according to her IC and not cheating is enough for her to get a congrats from me.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8661715
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stubbornft ( member #49614) posted at 10:59 PM on Friday, May 21st, 2021

We have to work on ourselves and we cannot control them. HOWEVER I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for support from your partner.

I get what you are saying about the kid but you need to look up Parentification. It is really bad for him. He isn’t equipped to help you and leaning on him is damaging to him. I am sure he seems mature. That is a coping mechanism. Please trust me. My mother cheated on my father and they leaned on me and it has long lasting and damaging effects. I resent both the cheater and the betrayed parent because it was wrong to lean on me, period.

I think you should apologize to the son and never ever lean on him again. Trust me. You don’t want to do this. Tell him you are sorry and it was inappropriate and you won’t do it again.

Are you in IC?

Me: BS 40 Him: WS 51 He cheated with massage parlor sex workersDday 01/19/2021
Kicked him out in 2021 - life is better on the other side. Moved on with the help of a wonderful therapist.

posts: 846   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2015   ·   location: TX
id 8661717
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 12:20 AM on Saturday, May 22nd, 2021

... not that I want it from him but my step son shows me empathy when he sees me down. I don't expect it at all but he is there for me and really shows me how much he loves me.

When you catch this dynamic in play, just reassure your stepson that you are okay. Remind him that you're a big guy and that you can handle your business. Tell him he shouldn't worry, that you love him and always will, and that you and his mom have to work things out at your own pace. Tell him that sometimes life can be really messy, but that we just keep slogging along until we find the best solutions to our problems.

You can bond with him and still be a role model, right? The lesson here is 'Dealing with Adversity', and your job is to show him how to get through it without losing your priorities.

Remember too that people can't feel two feelings at once. Your WS can either feel shame or empathy when you remind them of a trigger. I was just talking about this on another post, but what I think could be helpful is trying to create a clinical understanding of the damage done. I'm going to save myself some time and reprint that post. Take what you need and leave the rest. You're really very early on, and some of these concepts are for later when you're much more established in R. Right now, you're still on the fence trying to decide if you want to be there or not... and that's a totally valid place to be. Take your time and don't allow yourself to be rushed. A very important part of R is learning to take OWNERSHIP of your choice. Well, you haven't even made that choice yet, but eventually, you're going to need to OWN that choice every day and know that YOU were the one who decides every day where he intends to plant his feet.

I think part of your frustration is that you're trying to swallow the bear whole instead of allowing for one bite at a time, and it's a process... particularly if you choose R. The work a WS has to do doesn't LOOK very contrite. From a distance, it looks self-absorbed, like the BS is an after-thought. But it HAS to be that way in order to break through the old, flawed programming. The WS has to achieve a healthy self-esteem and that just looks so self-involved and disrespectful from the BS POV.

Anyway, here's that other post. Remember it was for someone who is further along than you are though, so just take what you need and leave the rest.

Sounds like ignorance to me, not necessarily spite or willfulness. I'm thinking she just doesn't get it, and I'm not surprised by that. Most of us DON'T get it until it happens to us. And then, for BS, we end up brain-jacked by the inexplicable need to relive the trauma over and over and over again. We can't explain that because it doesn't make sense to us either, and yet, our injured brains compel us toward the behavior.

So, you have the WS saying, "I don't get it", and the BS essentially saying the same thing, "I don't know why. I can't explain it". Naturally the conversation is going nowhere until some answers are provided, right? So, why do you need to talk about it all the time? What are you getting from that?

What I found out after some fairly extensive research is that this compulsion to talk about it was fairly ubiquitous among BS's. It's a trauma response. It's our brain's trying to make sense of new information which has corrupted our old files. Our brains are kind of like organic computers, and this trauma causes a glitch. We get stuck. The information we had regarding our spouse was false. We thought we knew this person, thought we understood them, but that data is corrupted by the new information, that they are capable of deceit and betrayal. So, we get stuck in a loop, revisiting the trauma over and over and over again. The brain provides connection in otherwise mundane triggers. Same color car as the AP goes by?.. amygdala are triggered, adrenaline and cortisol flood the system. Wash, rinse, repeat. Every new jot of information must be verified, and reverified, and reverified, and reverified.. because the brain is STUCK and we were wrong before, so now the new files need to be challenged for authenticity again and again.

THIS is what WS don't understand. They don't understand how the brain has been hijacked by the trauma. It doesn't make sense to them. And when we're really honest, it wouldn't have made sense to us either before we experienced it for ourselves. So yeah, I think we need to be a little bit patient while we attempt to educate... that is, if R is something we want. If it's not, the WS can blow it our their ass. Why would we care if they get it or not if we're done with them?

Next thing is whether or not we should challenge ourselves when we realize that the brain is stuck. Rumination is a natural result of trauma. But should it be tolerated? Six years down the path and I say 'no'. Rumination is like an old vinyl record being stuck in a groove, wearing deeper and deeper into the brain. Remember, we GROW our neural network. We develop neural pathways in accordance with what we use the most, which is why it's so hard for us to overwrite the old file we had on our spouse. So, now we're wearing this deep gouge into our brain which is traumatic, depressing, pessimistic, anxious... and within a year or two, we've developed a nasty chemical depression from having our hormones, neurotransmitters, and adrenals all out of whack. And I get it, believe me I do. I fought my IC tooth and nail over rumination. Privately, I continued to believe that I would eventually wrap my mind around the problem and solve it, as if it were a solvable problem. It's not. We can ask ourselves relevant questions like, "Do I stay or do I go?" or "Does s/he really love me?" without holding onto all that angst 24/7. We can even revisit those questions later if we're worried we made the wrong call. But in the interim, yes... I think we should challenge and defeat rumination.

And then there are bids for attention and care. The 'ask' for empathy. Like I said earlier, I don't believe that most WS are capable of understanding in full. How could I have required my fWH to understand something that I myself failed to understand before it happened to me. Because I've had friends go through this, and I felt great sympathy for them. I thought it was empathy, it felt like empathy to me. But no... I wasn't even close to imagining what my friends were going through. And that's all empathy is really, walking the proverbial mile in the other guy's shoes. That's just not possible for this though. We can't account for the brain-jack of trauma.

So, what I figured in my own situation wasn't too much different from what I decided about questions. I filtered through the lens of "How does this help ME?" It's part of the brain-jacking that we want to know every single detail. And some people swear by that No matter how many additional triggers they have to deal with, they want to know everything. And same with this, some people want the WS to know every time they have a feeling or a trigger. But what does that accomplish besides making the WS feel shame? For some BS, they need to see that shame. For others, no. I didn't decide to keep my WS so he could wallow in shameful misery until I could somehow be satisfied that he had suffered enough. When I got past my anger, I didn't want him to suffer. I wanted him to UNDERSTAND. But now, we're back to beginning, in a circular argument because even the most contrite WS is unlikely to REALLY feel our feelings. The WS isn't traumatized. How can they fully empathize with traumatic rumination and the compulsive need for verification and empathy? The only answer is to educate them the best we can regarding TRAUMA so that they at least have a clinical understanding. This clinical understanding can LEAD to real empathy because it doesn't ask the WS to feel shame. Remember, the WS can't feel their own shame and our grief at the same time, so.. the just end up feeling their shame.

For my own situation and after YEARS of rumination followed by a very nasty bout of depression, I finally decided that enough was enough. My feeling are MY feelings. My WH only needs to hear about my feeling when there's something he needs to be DOING about my feelings. Feelings aren't FACTS. They come and they go... IF we allow them to go. Like clouds in the sky, one feeling will drift away to be replaced by another. All I need to do is simply ALLOW.

It's not right and it's not fair... but after an intimate betrayal, we BS have our own work to do. When we are confident that our WS is doing the work required to CHANGE the broken bits of their character which allowed the cheating choice to be made and when we can say without any particle of doubt that our WS would change it all if they could... I think we're safe from the charge of "rugsweeping". IOW, we don't have to expect the unachievable from our WS. No one can peek into anyone else's head and see if they're for real or not. We just have to take that leap of faith and make the call. And that leap isn't about the WS. It's about US. Do we trust our OWN judgment enough to say whether we're safe with this person or not? For me, I know that I've grown and I'm no longer fragile. I can handle whatever comes my way when it comes to this marriage. I am no longer intimidated by the threat of loss because I've faced it already and I know it can't hurt me. So, I'm free to enjoy whatever perks I find in it and I don't suffer anymore over what it lacks. I think so much of what we fear for the future is just pointless anxiety. I was so afraid to get hurt again that I didn't realize I had already dealt with all those sharp, pointy things. My grief had purpose. The things which were lost, the innocence, the specialness, are in the past, dead and grieved over. They aren't rearing up again under ANY circumstances to get me again. I am safe in my OWN hands.

Anyway, long post made shorter. Why not try working on developing her clinical understanding of what you're going through as a means of eventually connecting to her empathy? If you haven't read it already, try The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk. He's pretty much the world's leading expert on trauma. You might also try The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. It's geared more toward those who have experienced a walk-away spouse, but the author does a great job of connecting with van der Kolks points regarding the body/brain connection of trauma, and also pulling in our innate fear of abandonment which is still with us from birth. I found that once I could explain WHY I was feeling the way it was, it was so much less threatening to my fWH. He could understand it without either falling into a shame spiral or tuning out.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6800   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8661732
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 1:33 AM on Saturday, May 22nd, 2021

No never any physical abuse. I just get angry and yell at her and how stupid she was for what she did. I used to put her down and I guess I still do that but only as it pertains to her affair.

Thank you for clarifying. Do you also yell at your stepson?

I can tell you from personal experience that abusive yelling by men (because we are big and loud with deep voices and potentially scary demeanors) stays with family members for decades hence. The rest of their lives.

It builds up a reservoir of toxic memory. When you yell now, your WW and stepson hear the echo of all the other yellling.

Yelling is a kind of "argument by force" that overrides any good feelings you have developed in your family. It also kicks in the fight or flight part of people's brains when they are subjected to it.

I don't say this to guilt you. It takes a toll on your own health as well.

Emotional abuse causes PTSD. Combine yelling with emotional abuse, put downs and the like, and you have a really toxic stew.

I'm sure your counselor is helping you understand that.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8661741
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 2:10 AM on Saturday, May 22nd, 2021

What do you need her to do to show you what you need to see that she is not showing you? Specifically?

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8661745
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