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Ms Martha,

While I understand the pain you are in, please be respectful to the other, hurting wives here.

This post has NOTHING to do with the fact that the blame belongs on the WS - it ALL has to do with the wayward spouse. The blame is entirely on the wayward spouse.

The point of this thread is something that you do not get. That many, if not all betrayed spouses (although this was in support of betrayed wives) take such a hit to their self esteem, as they question if their husband would have not strayed if they had only been prettier, thinner, sexier, smarter, taller, bigger boobs, whatever. We wrestle with those thoughts almost to the point of self destruction.

There are numerous threads about how the wayward husband could have thrown away his wife, his marriage, for some other woman who was in fact, often far less attractive than they are. There are reasons for that. It's not about how the OW looks, it's about feeding something inside of them, most often their own ego.

If you're doing well in the self-esteem area right now, you are to be applauded. Perhaps you can share what it is that gives you the confidence you have in light of what you've been through. Instead of blasting newly betrayed wives, why not share your insight and tips for doing that?

However, I stand firm. If the OW knowingly goes into a relationship with a married man, I AM better than her. At least at that point of her life I am and you will NEVER change my mind about that fact. In fact, I think there are a lot of reformed WW's here on SI who might tell you the same thing - that it was the lowest point of their lives.

If you are offended, you are not forced to read, or respond.

[This message edited by deathbybetrayal at 2:04 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Ms Martha

I'm confused,are you truly trying to defend the OW here?

I am not putting all the blame on my H's mistress - it's a 50/50 deal here - but when she decided to spread her legs for a married man, she proved that she is way, way beneath me.

I doubt that my H could have "affaired down" much more than he did. Even if you were to ignore the fact that she looks and acts like a whore, the moment she entered into an affair with a married man, she proved just how far beneath me she is.

The fact that she has never shown one ounce of remorse proves my point.

Quite frankly, you sound as if you could be a former OW, and if that is the case, you do not belong in this forum. JMHO

Just to speak up from a guy's point of view, the hit to the self-esteem is just as bad. In the beginning I felt like dirt. I didn't feel adequate enough. It was the first time I had ever experienced infidelity first hand. I felt like a dog that outlived its usefulness and was kicked out of a speeding car to wander the streets while a new puppy took my place. (thankfully I found out later that its not a puppy, it's an older dog that is short, fat and still lives with his parents... that made me feel much better!)

Then I did some reading, and things clicked. I realized although the OM initiated the contact, it was my WW that allowed it to continue. The OM is nothing special, and he's only serving one purpose - temporary escape. I say temporary because the things my WW is trying to escape will follow her, with or without me. He may be her lover, but I am the father of her children and her husband that her loved her faithfully. He can NEVER be any of those things.

Yes, in all ways having an affair is "trading down", because as someone once put it, any one who would have an A with a married person is the worst type of person to begin with.

any one who would have an A with a married person is the worst type of person to begin with

Well said!!!!

Ms. Martha,

I just pulled this from one of your posts:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324997&HL=23951

I think there are many types of cheaters. I have cheated. I have never cheated since.

This explains your defensiveness - but you do not belong in the JFO thread. At the very least you are a mad hatter. Please refrain from posting here.

[This message edited by deathbybetrayal at 2:54 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Thank you so much for posting this! This is exactly what I needed to hear today....

Thank you for sharing this. I have read it often since the first time I saw it and it helps me put the whole A into perspective.

For over 4 months, I have been pretty hard on myself. This mostly comes from the embarassment that I just cannot shake.

1997, my fiance walked into my room and told me he needed a break to figure himself out before the wedding. I believed him. He married a work colleague two months later. I haven't seen him or spoken to him since. We were "in love" and had been together for 5 years. I had no clue.

I heard she worked at the local mall, so I spied on her one day. She was a few in shorter, a few pounds heavier, had slightly lighter eyes and hair than mine and was fine on the eyes, but nothing so terribly special that I could understand why he threw me away.

I was sad, I was hurt. I didn't date anyone for a year. Then, I met someone wonderful and we kissed. I found out the next day that he had a girlfriend. I was horrified and I never spoke to him again.

2 more years went by and I met FWH....we dated for 6 years before marrying.

I have boundaries. I thought my husband did too, but on one particular night, his were weak. MOW had made no secret she had wanted him for years.

He was depressed, drunk and she witnessed an argument between us earlier in the evening. She went in for the kill.

She is decent looking but has nothing on me. I also make more than 100K more than she does and have 3 graduate degrees. I own my own home and vehicles and took care of my husband. She offered none of that, just some mischief in the garage when noone was looking.

While, this post fits for the "affair down" concept,the idea that she was special enough for him to throw his life away for still creeps in sometimes.

When it does, I read your post and it chases the crazy away.

Thank you!

Ms.Martha...

You have a PM.

DBB...so do you.

Ms Martha -

Anyway, my point is why try to look at what is better or worse about the OP.

It's not about being better or worse then the AP. It is instinct for a BS to take a earth shattering hit to their self-esteem when their spouse has become a WS. We betrayed spouses who have never cheated and can't imagine why the person who swore to honor and cherish us would betray us so horribly.

I mean come on... My WS never wore a ring. Nor did he ever mention he was married.

Maybe that is what your WS did however many WSs, I daresay most, did not do as your H did. Most have OPs who know that the WS is married. It is a sign of poor character, morals, and ethics for any person to have an A with someone knowingly. So for a BS who has never cheated, the AP is an ugly, evil, nasty individual.

You got to see the new guy my XWW is with now. Lousy job as a doorman in an apartment building. Kissing rich peoples asses for a few bucks here and there. He is D with 2 kids so I am sure he is paying through his ass for them. And here is the kicker he lives with another woman who I am sure is supporting his ass. Maybe I gots to inform her about my XWW

BS Only

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 4:43 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Wha??? Ms.Martha is a WS or OW? I guess that makes sense...I did get the feeling, Ms.Martha, that you felt the OW had done no wrong to sleep with a married man.

Sigh.

Ms. Martha -

Highly supportive PM on its way to you from someone with enough independence to appreciate your insights. Hang in there!

I think I can and others...

The situaion with MsMartha was taken care of...we are not going on a witch hunt.

Get back on topic with this thread.

This has meant the WORLD to me today. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I know for a fact that xH has traded down and it has nothing to do with the fact that we were still M when they got together; but has more to do with her betrayal to me as a friend.

Physically, she is heavier, not as pretty, and looks much older, and even smells.

I dealt with the hit to the self esteem and he was with someone like this!!!

BUT!!! The issues I had with low self esteem were not the OW's doing in full. It was about ME. And I could trash talk her till the cows come home but it didn't do a thing to increase my feelings towards myself. I had to let go of the hate and blame I put on them and own up to my own crap. Then and ONLY then did my self esteem start to get stronger. I had to learn to start loving ME again.

I think this is all Ms. Martha was trying to say. She knows, as we all do, the feelings that's prompted this beatifully written post. IMO, she was simply pointing out that while it feels good to read and say, it shouldn't be the main factor in the healing process of ones own self worth. Because it won't help. It could actually reinforce the negative self feelings.

Thank you thank you thank you!

Wow! Thank you sooooo much for this. My self esteem has really been in the toilet lately but this really spoke to me. Everything you said about the OW is true and more....

it shouldn't be the main factor in the healing process of ones own self worth

I think some are taking this post out of context. I don't think it was ever mentioned or intended to be written to be used as one's main focus on healing. As we all know, healing is a step by step process that takes time. And dealing with anger is one of them. As the post addresses "newly betrayed wives", most are surely dealing with lots of anger and hits to self esteem. Letting out anger is a healthy and necessary part of the process so you can move forward. This post is what we need to hear right now. So as a relatively newly betrayed wife, I appreciated this. Eventually, OW won't matter and we will have ourselves to deal with, but for now, OW does matter some and needs to be dealt with in our minds so that we don't shove it under the rug to have it bite us in the ass later...and the WH is an entirely different can of worms. We've got lots to deal with!

And you can start loving yourself while trash talking the OW at the same time.

deathbybetrayal;

Wow !! Thanks for the post. I never look at it that way.

Your post make me feel better.

My WH had sex with a prostitute that is much younger than our daughter,