SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Time to act

OM does not appear to be any "predator". He actually was just going with the flow and she told me in actuality he was feeling pretty guilty about the whole thing. So it does make some sense that when he got scared that he did actually confess to his wife.

OM may not be predator but she messed with a married woman at his pressure job, IMO your wife need to get another job (in case of D) and then you should expose to HR. The thing is that OMPOS doesn’t seems to care a lot for his family and seems like his wife is already into R mode, so he is not getting real damage out of his affair.

The sex stuff was fucking hard to listen to. First time I kind of lost it, but she answered everything. Not sure anyone wants to hear the gory details. They did use protection. My wife actually bought the condoms before the first encounter that involved more than kissing because she knew she was going to do it if it got that far. Very unpleasant to hear as you can imagine.

She swears there are no hidden e mail accounts or apps, and that he does not have any lewd photos of her out there. The only cybersex was I gues you would say some phone sex. She was careful and not reckless it appears, which would fit her demeanor.

Sorry but cheaters word mean nothing, IMO she really need to take a poly test. One thing that I caught me eye is that’s eh was the aggressor, that she wanted to continue with this guy, and that she kept communicating with this guy. It may mean that this is not her first lover…I am sorry but I guess is a chance that she has had more affairs. Maybe your WW was bad influenced by toxic friends (that need to be gone for good even before considering R) but the last call was hers.

NO CONTACT

Obviously, total NC will be hard in a way but not as hard as if they worked actually together. They have the same position but in different parts of the country, have different folks that report to them and that they answer to, so there is NO REASON that they would need to be in contact on company e mail or text. How to monitor that is a tough one, but the only time they would be in same time zone would be at these meetings, some (not all) that they sign up for and can avoid each other being there together. SHE HAS COMMITED TO THAT, and she wrote a NC communication.

That why she really need to find a new job. ASAP or OM needs to resign.

It was firm and unemotional and I had no problem with it, but I am not sure if it even worth sending. I mean he already knows I know, his wife ( almost certain) has called me and told me she knows, so DO I STILL HAVE HER SEND IT??????? Or is her writing it with no hesitation enough???????? Need opinions on that one.

IMO you should contact her just to compare note, if she is willing to, and to see what measured OMPOS is taking to avoid your wife. Sorry but there is a good reason for NC and is that affairs could start again at any change, seems very unlikely but is possible, as was possible first time.

One other job positive. It seems OM is so driven that she thinks if he does not move up relatively quickly that he will leave for another opportunity.

This is a very long shot, so don’t believe it . IMO, as I said before, give OM 2 months to get a other job or you will expose to HR, you can set a date focusing on their next meeting that your wife or OM won’t be able to change or don’t assist. Other option could be: If you decide to R she needs to quit right away and start finding a new job, and then you expose right away. Explain to OMWife this options and tell her you know is not fair but his H knew what he was doing from 1 minute and is time for him to wear his big boy pants.

Last thing; do not engage in R until a poly takes place, because you need to be sure what you are willing to forgive. Also you should promise anything as R has no guaranties.

Good luck

The big picture, assuming an R path, is:

1. Stop the affair

2. Work on your healing/her "Why?"

3. Rebuild a new marriage

At this point, you're most of the way through #1. In the grand scheme of things, it is the easiest part. Most of the questions you have are part of stopping the affair, but really have more to do with the steps you haven't started yet.

NC

Have her send it. It solidifies what is expected for both your W and the OM and it eliminates the excuse "I didn't think this was that bad" at some future point. It reinforces to your W that this is a hard and fast boundary on which your ability to move forward into R depends.

Transparency

This is a consequence of the A and a trust building mechanism going forward. Your W kept secrets from you and, in order to trust her, she must be willing to be totally transparent. There will be no more lies and there will be no more hiding of information. The point here is that trust is foundational to R -- she needs to earn it and you need to see that she is willing and able to do the right thing.

The job

OK, the OM is scared and you have leverage. HE makes his wife (assuming it was really her) call YOU and beg for his job. What kind of manipulation tactic is that!? That sounds like the same entitled, self-centered thinking that led him to have an A with your W to begin with. Reading between the lines, it sounds like your wife is softly agreeing that protecting his job is what you should do. In addition, it sounds like she has a great position complete with a good income, so she is using that to try and keep her spot.

Consequences and trust are the issue here. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that he needs to be fired or that your wife has to quit right now. However, there is a deeper issue here that is very concerning and that you need to address. Both the OM and your W seem to be, either actively or passively, burdening you with a guilt trip about their jobs. They both want to avoid any consequences for their actions. What I am pointing to is an underlying attitude and manipulation tactic that doesn't seem to show any real remorse. Even if they only were in the same place very infrequently, how are you supposed to build trust in this scenario? You can't. The attitude at least one of them should be displaying is that NC and trying to rebuild their marriage will naturally will require one of them to leave the company. Your wife putting out feelers for other jobs is a good start.

Moving forward

You have some hard work in front of you. Working your way through the pain of the trauma will be difficult and your wife has some real soul searching to do in order to become a safe partner. You can take a look at the questions in General and Reconciliation to get a clue about what that can look like. However, before you are able to get there, it is critical that you finish the work of making sure the A is dead and unable to reemerge as it is foundational for being able to move ahead and not end up back here in Just Found Out again at some point in the future.

The thing is that OMPOS doesn’t seems to care a lot for his family and seems like his wife is already into R mode, so he is not getting real damage out of his affair.

Mr. Healed. Not sure if i agree with you on this one. He obviously did not care enough to not enter into an affair, but right now it appears he cared enough about his family not to interfere with his wife calling my wife ( I know I have to verify that but right now I believe it was her). his poor wife has no job and three children. I would not say they are well onto R road but her immediate options are limited much more than mine.

Sorry but cheaters word mean nothing, IMO she really need to take a poly test.

Agree with this one. I have not brought that up yet but it is coming. As a matter of fact, right now I think I will need to do it more than once. First to verify what I have been told, and then somewhere down the line. From my limited time here, it appears that sometimes a WW repeats this behavior if they think the coast is clear, with same OM ( probably not likely here if his wife checks out), or with new OM. My WW wife have and has had I am sure many opportunities, as have I. I see no other way to rebuild trust.

Maybe your WW was bad influenced by toxic friends (that need to be gone for good even before considering R) but the last call was hers.

Agree with this one too. Right now, I know three girlfriends know, one who has to go, two who bailed on her rather than have guilt of facing me knowing what was going on. i have not gotten to this yet either but i will. I want to find out who the hell else knows that I may be at dinner with. While I am not thrilled at the two who bailed, they certainly did not encourage her. Have to see about them.

At this point, again exposing this to their HR is not happening. For whatever reason, my anger still remains mostly at my wife, not him. Despite my wife being referred to as low hanging fruit before, for any guy who would cross the boundary, my wife visually would be easy to want to do it with.

I have more digging to do I know

IIRC,your wife didn't want to be tested for STDs. So, of course she is saying a condom was always used. Regardless, insist she be tested anyway, Even if condoms were used, highly unlikely they were used during oral sex. And if there was kissing involved...Well...She's still been exposed.

Yes..send the nc email. It creates a boundary.

CONFUSED, thank you. I was tested. She has agreed. I will take your advice and the letter will be sent. It was pretty good on the first try.

thank you

You're handling this really well, all things considered, especially given the utmost havoc that infidelity wreaks on one's life.

I still hope that in the near future one or the other will find a new job or get transferred, so there will be 100% NC, because many people here have observed that at that point did the real R start for them, where they no longer had to worry about WS at work.

Otherwise, I have no comments, you're handling this like a champ!

Best wishes!

Despite my wife being referred to as low hanging fruit before, for any guy who would cross the boundary, my wife visually would be easy to want to do it with.

The "low hanging fruit" reference doesn't imply that she's unattractive -- it's a term that means that the guy didn't have to try too hard because she was the 'easiest one to reach.'

Gonna

The "low hanging fruit" reference doesn't imply that she's unattractive -- it's a term that means that the guy didn't have to try too hard because she was the 'easiest one to reach.'

I understand that. I was not offended. The analogy is probably correct. My WW was on Cloud 9 that this guy wanted to hang with her. Before she had ever met him, she had heard how "dreamy; he was from other female colleagues. Women in their 40's seem to like it when younger guys pay a lot of attention to them.

Just so you know, you're not going to start healing until you're 100 percent sure No Contact is going to be maintained.

Give the dude a month to find a new job, and out of respect for his wife, and stop making his problems your problem. How you feel for him doesn't matter, at this point he's just a variable that just needs to be dealt with. And for you, in your life, your best interests lie with No Contact beginning now, or asap I should say.

You may feel like you're going to heal, but you're not.

Where I am a 35-er going places usually will be making 7 figures in C-level and divorced with remarried with a 24yo trophy within 10 more years. Because they can, even if they don't realize it is coming when they are 35. Like 75% plus with guys who can. Think Trump, he's married the younger version every 10 years or so. There are many less famous who followed similar path.

Anyway, that's why I say low-hanging fruit, because he would only do this if it came to him. If he was actively looking for an affair, he probably goes for a single 22 or 23 who is the younger version of your wife, maybe less accomplished, who can be at his beck and call.

Agree many 40s women AND men start screwing around. Women usual for validation of still hot, men because they finally can get younger hotties due to status they couldn't get before.

90 percent truth is optimistic. But you know enough. I always get a kick about "how many" times and details like used condoms. Unless you found one on her, and even then, I never believe it because almost all lie about it. Like 10% use condoms, your wife might be in that 10%, but I think more likely she's in the 50% or so that lie about it. But does it really matter? It's just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Not meaning you can't reconcile but I have not many react like yours did initially. I have my doubts about her basic morals more than a supposed one-time validation affair.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 1:16 PM, January 25th (Monday)]

Timetoact, I am late replying here, but I've been following your thread. I replied originally with some thoughts on telling the kids.

I think you are doing a bang up job in handling your discovery. You seem to have a clear head and know how you want to proceed. Sometimes it is difficult hearing someone talk about your WS, but I am sure they are coming from a place of concern.

I've read alot of posts that talk about gut feelings. Many people wished they had followed their gut feelings sooner when they thought their spouse was cheating.

I say it is time for you to follow your gut. You are doing everything in your power to tell your wife what it will take to regain your love and trust. Stick with it. It sounds like she is willing to put in the work as well, which initially is a good sign. Stick with it, and know that you aren't locked into any decision that you have made.

For the others that seem to want to cast doubt on any progress that you have made, or any concessions that your wife has made, they have not lived in your shoes. Again, you seem to be a well-balanced, intelligent, thoughtful man who does not rush into things foolishly. Follow your gut!

Best of luck to you.

I have my doubts about her basic morals more than a supposed one-time validation affair.

WK55, OUCH!!!!I have only been on here a short time, and no doubt my WW made a few horrendous and hurtful choices recently, but to cast her as a morally bankrupt, non redeemable excuse for a human being to me pushes the envelope a little. But I do appreciate your concern and rspect your opinion as do I of everyone taking the time to try to help me through this.

I may divorce or reconcile, but this morally horrendous person has been the mother of two outstanding children, worked most of their lives, accomplished a tremendous amount business wise and income wise, and to this point, has only made this shitty choice with one person. This part of out lives is NOT over by any stretch yet. there are more answers to be had. But to cast that big a shitty net over her entire being is a little harsh I think.

I am reading on this forum that there appear to be a lot of wives fucking a lot of guys other than husbands and some of them divorce and some do not. and that includes multiple time offenders. I thankfully am not there yet.

For the others that seem to want to cast doubt on any progress that you have made, or any concessions that your wife has made, they have not lived in your shoes. Again, you seem to be a well-balanced, intelligent, thoughtful man who does not rush into things foolishly. Follow your gut!

NOMOREGAMES, thank you for the encouragement. I do not know how this will end yet. But it is nice to hear that there is some chance that some think we might make it. My WW attitude has changed dramatically since I got that fucked up statement when I first caught her. that does not mean i will not be hit with another barrel like some here right now are being hit.

I am not an expert at this. I am doing the best I can. The easiest thing logistically I could do is hand her divorce papers, but in my life I have learned the easiest way is not always the most productive.

We will talk every night this week. But I realize this is not a quick fix type deal unless you just walk away. I am not there yet, but for those who are concerned about me being too soft, rest easy. I am NOT begging, I am not pleading, and I am not trying to be the nicest guy on the planet. My wife knows that, and she knows what she is dealing with in me.

i will say reading some of these horror stories makes mine seem pale in comparison if it were not happening to me. I am a big boy and am not going to stay in a pity party for myself. I am going to get to the bottom of this one way or the other and it is not going to take me years.

I have already started to investigate polygraph places. And I believe my wife will take it and will pass. i am not naive enough to believe that there has not been any little detail that she has not told me or that there might be something else I am not thrilled about. i will give her the opportunity to tell me anything else herself before I ask for the poly.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean she was totally bankrupt. I was talking specifically about her attitudes toward chesting. I have seen many who have uncommon outlook on attitudes toward cheating, they have deep-seated ideas that they never express. I found her initially to possibly have something along those lines because people who think it is wrong to cheat very rarely suggest to continue doing it openly. They may want to do it but think it is wrong so they agree to stop, as oppose to say they want to keep going.

People have sexual/romantic/commitment issues very separate from their other attitudes. Probably using the word "basic morals" was the wrong phrase, I was focused solely on how her idea of "right and wrong" about cheating might be completely different than the norm, that she seemed to think it was just sex so it's OK.

I did not mean to offend.

I have already started to investigate polygraph places. And I believe my wife will take it and will pass. i am not naive enough to believe that there has not been any little detail that she has not told me or that there might be something else I am not thrilled about. i will give her the opportunity to tell me anything else herself before I ask for the poly.

This is good. Apparently you've read my threads so you know I went the poly route as well. My wife passed all four questions posed to her. The key is not the answers to the questions but whether she has been honest. That's what the poly told me, which in turn helped me determine whether I thought we could R, which is where we are now. Had she failed, it would have meant she was not being honest with me and therefore a very strong indication that she was not willing to do the hard work a successful R requires.

So the poly serves two purposes: a) an incentive for the WW to convey as many answers as you require - to come clean so to speak, and b) to gauge her truthfulness on the things she's already said.

At this point, again exposing this to their HR is not happening

No matter how many times you say this, people want you to expose him. I am with you, and NoMoreGames.

Telling HR both exposes your wife, (who was the aggressor so even more at fault from their perspective) and possibly harms an innocent BS.

I understand people's concern that it's the best way to kill the A, but few seem to understand the circumstances of their jobs and lives having little intersection. Despite your many attempts to explain it...

So just count me as an old-timer who thinks you are making good choices. And I agree with your decision to not tell the kids, either. If you don't D all you've done is hurt them. Yes, it also protects your WW. But do you have to hurt them in order to fix your M? I say no.

If you R, I think you will be glad you made these choices, and if you D, you still have the option to do any of these Others in closer proximity to their DDay may see it as "only fair" or "the only way to end the A", but I think you see that at least some of the advice on here comes from a very personal place, and may not apply to you.

I wish you luck and healing.

I agree with Latebloomer about NOT telling HR being the morally correct choice in your circumstances. I also think you are clearly doing a fantastic job of staying balanced and constructive.

WK55,

No offense taken from your remarks. I have respect for your opinion. The fact is her attitude about infidelity in others has never been real hard line. My wife has girlfriends who have been cheated on and advised most to try to work it out if it was just sex. I read the Space Ghost thread and most of us probably did not set clear long stated consequences that he did. Probably a conversation that a lot of us should have but avoid because it is uncomfortable. Quite some time ago when my wife was not travelling as much as I was she once casually remarked that if I had a ONS on road that she would rather not know, as long as I did not repeat it. I never paid any attention to that statement and certainly never said the same thing.

I think some of that attitude comes from what I said before about the higher a women's socioeconomic status the higher the likelihood she will commit adultery. I think with the equal status to men economically some of the same mindset that men have ( it is just sex) enters their thought process. Some may disagree I am sure. Not trying to start a debate or make excuses. It still sucks.

Anyway, Wk55, fire away. I am not offended by anything anyone says. Everyone reading any of this on here I guess has experienced a big hurt and we all react differently. That is why I think it is im0ortant to read shit that hurts to read and I might not want to hear.

WALLOPED,

You ought to write a book on how to rationally wade through all this shit. I'm not in your league. I think your situation was mind boggling with young children and five kids. Thank heavens your brother did not think he was hallucinating and told you.

I didn't make as long a list of the sex questions as you, but I did ask a lot of the same ones. Of course, my WW OM had no apartment to hang around. I'm in awe of how thorough you were on everything.

LATE BLOOMER

Thanks for the support. I am holding firm as you stated on the HR thing. Why do I want to hurt these little kids just to hurt their Dad. If they worked in same office for 10 hours every day, it might be different story. Neither OM nor my wife really "pursued" each other romantically. The hooked up when business brought them together except for once.

My kids are old enough to to understand and I will not lie at all to them if I divorce. But right now why on earth do I want them involved in this??? If telling the kids is the only way to get her to remain faithful, do I really want to even be married to her anymore??????

If this A is not killed now ( I know and OM wife knows), then it is not going to get killed.

Tonight I will for the first time to really try to talk to my wife about what caused her to do this. The "why" as some would say. Still can't believe I am having these conversations but it is what it is.

You're doing good, timetoact...

Finding out the "why"s can be tricky. Most people who are caught will say, when asked "Why?", I don't know. The motivations can be very different. You are onto something, I think, Timetoact, with the comment about women having equal economic power with men. They are more independent and therefore more powerful. With power comes more entitlement, in time, for everyone. The more power one has, the more the likelihood that one will become entitled. "I would like to have" becomes "I want to have" and then "I deserve to have". Modern society also has encouraged to a certain point entitlement, with the message, "You deserve". It seemed to me that your WW may have had a case of that, at least when she initially asked you to let her have her sex on the side. However, there may be much more to the "why"s.

IC could help her figure out other reasons. I would like to stress out though that ANY KIND OF THERAPY (except for pure behavioral, which would in the case of infidelity be what people call "consequences") would have to be done because the person in therapy actually WANTS to do it even though they may find things about themselves which they may not like. If it is "imposed" from the outside it may be worthless because people can just pay "lip service" and not do any actual work in it.

Time,

you said this

"No offense taken from your remarks. I have respect for your opinion. The fact is her attitude about infidelity in others has never been real hard line. My wife has girlfriends who have been cheated on and advised most to try to work it out if it was just sex"

Was that your wife advising them by saying that ?

If so, did she believe what she was telling them ?

And thanks for not taking offense to what Wk55 said he's clearly one of our best posters and only has your best interests in mind. Hell. if I had problems, I would want him helping me.

[This message edited by Western at 7:59 PM, January 25th (Monday)]

I understand where you are coming from but...

This is not about getting even. The attorney told you not to report her at work because it can hurt you in D which can be true, However, he also knows that unless she leaves her job you are far more likely to need his services.

As long as she has that job, you will not fully R.

You do not expose at work to get even, you do to make them see the reality. The OM will throw her so far under the bus, she will not know what hit her. She will see him for what he is. More importantly she will see herself too.

I have seen so many men suck it up and not tell anyone. In most cases know that something is wrong and usually suspect the BH had done something.

I have seen so many BH lose friends and family as people do not understand what the BH is going through as they do not know he is a BH. They actually see an emotional WW and figure he has hurt her.

Look at Walloped thread and you see his kids immediately blamed him and thought he was at fault and he cheated.

Let your family know so they can help you and actually help your WW because they will call her out.

As you look for truth do should everyone. Only in the light does this truly get fixed.