SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey, you seem like your doing okay as far as handling this,except for one thing. You need to tell the POS wife like yesterday. In my opinion a face to face meeting with her trumps a phone call or e-mailing or any other way of telling. Thats what I did an it was devastating to the POS my ex- had been seeing. Call her , set up a meeting an tell her everything youve found out. In meeting her you will find out much more than if you just used a phone to inform her. That was my experince. Good luck.

I have had many opportunities to cheat while on the road, and will have many more I am sure. I have not weakened but I do know how hard it is to resist. Anyone who spends a lot of time away from everything you love in hotel rooms understands what a lonely existence it is. If you are home in your own bed every night, be thankful. no excuse for infidelity . Just a fact of life.

I cannot agree anymore. I have been in the same shoes, traveled internationally for 5 years. I know exactly what you mean. I quit that high paying job when i married 10 years ago, but still hate any airports, airplane, lonely hotel room, high pressure from the job, and jet lag, etc. I even hate the smell.

We are a social animal. Long distance does a lot to us. It throws us unexpected temptation occasionally. Some gave up their integrity and jump into the dirty trap, because they think it will not be caught. It has nothing to do with their loving spouses.

Regardless how your wife presents herself to you, she knows she messed up her life, and deeply regretful. Maybe she was too comfortable with her life, and forgot how lucky she was.

You can go strong, show your stand, present D paper to teach her lesson, expose the ugly adultery in the most humiliating way possible (so she can be sick about the OM who did the crime together), and give her wild wake up from the illusion of romance.

Although, once she become transparent, meets your expectation, and tries hard to come back to you, you may consider R later.

She did not plan to cheat on you. She gave in to the temptation in the lonely hotel room, and could not stop once she started. It was not love. She did not think clearly what she was into. She is the weak one. I hope she wakes up clearly, swallows her pride, and begs your forgiveness and mercy (regardless you will keep her or not) not because of her job sake, but humanly action for the long term life partner.

My IC psychologist says:

Among 10 Commandments or the Law of God, 2 out of 10 are about adultery.

7. You shall not commit adultery.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

His view point is that #7 and #10 are same item, but it is repeatedly emphasized in the commandment, because the adultery is the biggest temptation for human being. Arggggg…

What is your wife doing to save the marriage ,she needs to get a std test before you touch her.

good post Zero2016. I agree with everything you say here

[This message edited by Western at 2:47 PM, January 22nd (Friday)]

I had to jump in on two points:

1. Except for telling OM wife asap in order to minimize OM "spin" on the situation, nothing needs to happen tomorrow. You have time to reflect. I do wonder at all the "get divorced RIGHT NOW" posts sometimes. It seems to be a pride thing, perhaps. Personally I thought about getting married for three months before I said yes, I would need at least that long to decide to get a divorce unless he was flaunting it. Don't react from shock.

2. I agree with you about the job. It is a constant refrain here, the WS must change jobs if the OM or OW was a coworker. My H has a PHD. Jobs for him are not at every corner. Moving our kids would have been hugely disruptive for them. He minimized his contact with OW, and it was "only" an EA, but I never expected him to leave his job. As it is SHE moved within the company and has almost no opportunity to run across my H.

So take care of yourself and don't feel pressured to do anything while you sort things out. You will be OK.

Regardless how your wife presents herself to you, she knows she messed up her life, and deeply regretful. Maybe she was too comfortable with her life, and forgot how lucky she was.

You can go strong, show your stand, present D paper to teach her lesson, expose the ugly adultery in the most humiliating way possible (so she can be sick about the OM who did the crime together), and give her wild wake up from the illusion of romance.

Although, once she become transparent, meets your expectation, and tries hard to come back to you, you may consider R later.

Zero, thank you. Right now, I do think I am going strong. maybe not as strong as some think I should, but I am not sitting her playing Mr. Nice Guy. Her IQ would have to be in single digits to think she has not possibly blown a long term marriage up.

I CAN pull the trigger any time I want to on divorce. To me though, that is an action I do not want to be in a position of wanting to reverse. if I do that, then it is not out there any more as the ultimate consequence.

My wife has offered up all her passwords. My guess is she knew I would want it. But now that i have them, they are really useless, except i guess for the willingness to give them up.

This woman earns well into six figures, She is not stupid, and if she was going to take this any further underground, i doubt it is going to be on anything I have the password for. And both of them know their company can and does monitor the company equipment. She works for a very large organization.

Notifying OM wife is #1 on my radar screen as far as must do quick. Seems like the best choice is to do it in person myself or put it to my WW and make her do it with me on the phone with her. I agree his wife could expose them to company but my guess is in her situation she is not going to want her hot shot hubby out of a job.

I am trying to prepare a list of questions like Walloped did, but everytime i start to write it down I get too pissed off.

What I am convinced of at this point is she is not in love with OM, so I guess that puts me one step ahead of the game if I want to R. She swears she has had no contact since she was at her girlfriends house the other night, and that OM is well aware it is over. The big question is it is over forever or for how long???? That is what i need to determine.

I also have not exposed this to her parents or mine yet, just my brother. My sisters at this point would come here and decapitate her. If i do not divorce, I think right now getting all of them in on this will make my family life a mess in the future. If i do divorce, there is time to give them the gory details.

I hope no one is getting the impression that my WW is just having a fun time here. She is sleeping by herself, she is getting no touch or any physical affection from me. i am not sure about the 180 stuff but i think i am doing some of it anyway. Lots of tears not having much effect on me. This week end I will get into questions about the "why's" from her view, not that it matters.

So far, despite some pretty strong, to put it mildly, words from me, she has not lashed out or blamed me in any way. I have told her I want a written timeline by tomorrow, and i believe she is working on that and absorbed in it now. We'll see if it jives with what she said under duress.

Good thing I am not much of a drinker.

I just want to say kudos to you. I wish I could have been as decisive and quick as you. Actually, at the time I did consider the A a dealbreaker, but was in no financial shape to act and was stay at home mom to four small children. If he had enough money to support me and the kids and himself separately, I would have done it. Good for you.

Timetoact... Look into WebWatcher software. It ain't cheap... But if you install it on your home PC or her laptop at home... You can monitor easily. They also offer Android and iPhone solutions WITHOUT installing anything on their phone for them to see. On the iPhone... You just need her Apple ID and it will capture every call to/from and every text! DO IT!

Yes... I am going through the same as you! Go here and download this PDF...

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Have her read it tonight! I read it in a few hours... But then we don't have kids.

My wife is going through the trickle truth. I told her last night... "These are all the affairs I THINK you have had!" I may be wrong... I may be right... But THINK about this BEFORE we talk again on Saturday! THINK HARD! I am also going to demand a poly or walk away! I have the Separation Agreement already typed and vetted by a lawyer! We just need to agree on the asset split if it comes to it!

ABSOLUTELY... TAKE YOUR TIME! You don't sound like the violent type (unless you saw the OM, same as me!) so she has nothing to fear.

My wife and I have had a somewhat relaxing day without words... She was working and so was I... Both from home because of the snowstorm on the East Coast. I appreciate the break of the heart wrenching, soul tearing rollercoaster. I've prepped for the snow all day and half of yesterday. BRING IT ON!

Now... Tomorrow... when I KNOW she is trapped here with 2 feet of snow... I will ask her what her decision is! Truth or Fiction? Either way I will ask for a poly. If she agrees... I will schedule one as soon as possible... If not... The papers come out and I explain that I have already seen a lawyer. (Which will definitely freak her out!)

This is like a bad TV show that happens to someone else! (Except it is happening to me!) Sometimes you need to turn the channel for a break or to skip commercials!

Brother you need to remember that even if she does everything right, gives you everything you ask for, does all the hard work to fix things etc. you still need to expose her to reality and consequence. Without those things there's a very good chance she will repeat the behavior once again. What that consequence is can vary from person t person and situation to situation but it needs to be there. She must be also advised that if one boundary is crossed, any lie is told she is going to find her ass on the street. Don't toss put any idle threats or action your not willing to fully back up without hesitation. Think before you strike and never take your eye off the prize, whatever that may be.

This week end I will get into questions about the "why's" from her view, not that it matters.

The "Why?" really serves a singular purpose -- for you to feel that she has reached a point that she has fixed what is broken and will be a safe partner for you to reconcile with. Let me give you my own example with my WW so you can grasp the reasons behind her having to find her Why? or character gap.

The first answers to Why? were statements like "I didn't mean to", "It was a mistake" and "Things got out of hand." These are all excuses.

Asking Why? to those answers came back with "You were traveling too much", "You didn't pay enough attention to me" and "You weren't emotionally connected enough." These are all blame.

Asking Why? to those answers produced "I felt lonely", "I enjoyed sharing some common interests", "I liked the conversations we had". These are starting to make progress.

More Why? questions came up with "I enjoyed the attention", "It made me feel good about myself" and "I liked it because he approved of me". This is the point where an IC indicated that this could be approval/attention addiction and then started work on boundaries. It wasn't enough. Within a year she had another affair.

More Why? questions generated "Nothing was ever good enough for my mom and I felt worthless" and "My dad was withdrawn and I couldn't get his approval". Even more digging revealed that both her mom and dad never felt good enough for their fathers. My wife had been given a legacy of not feeling good enough and not feeling approved by her dad. It created the drive to get attention and approval from men. She was pursuing affairs as a way to self-medicate against the pain she had taken on as a child.

THAT was the Why?

However, that is only part of the solution. My wife needed to then work on her self-esteem. She also needed to see the pattern that had played out in her life and that seeking attention from other men not only wasn't fulfilling, but was destroying her marriage. She needed to totally redo her thinking about men and formulate new boundaries. She had to take the Why? and use it to make significant, internal changes. That is when the Why? mattered and made a difference.

All that being said, asking her Why? this weekend likely won't produce much. The process to get to the real Why? can take weeks or months of effort, typically with the help of a good IC. Even after that, it will take a lot of effort to remove old habits/thinking and establish new patterns.

I think this weekend would be best served by focusing on ensuring the end of the affair, lining up the next steps for each of you and looking into the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It is an easy read. You can find it in book format or, if you google for it, you can find a PDF version online.

The OM's wife will probably believe you with the text evidence you have. I expect she is already having her own "gut feelings," and wondering about behaviors that seem weird and little things that don't add up. Fasttrack Prettboy may also have been involved with other women besides your wife. (Might be involved with somebody new now, for that matter.)

Crushed,

Holy mackerel. Thank you. Your post was truly eye opening and informative. Thank you very much.!!!! My guess is I will surely get some or not all of those that you got. I already shot down the mistake. I told her the first time might be classified a somewhat of a mistake ( not buying it but I could see it being said), but every time after that was no fucking mistake. I forge to my toothbrush last time I travelled. That was a mistake.

Late Bloomer,

Thank you. If I heard anything like "I have feelings for him", or "I love him too", or if she refuses to stop this or has not stopped it, I will go right to divorce like a speeding train.

Sickened

I hear you. I do not know too many guys, or women for that matter, who would not make the statement that they thought any infidelity was a deal breaker. Seems like there are a lot of folks here who had second thoughts about that one. Finances are not an issue here. I cannot imagine what this shit must be like with small children. OM will find that one out. Don't know whether or n ot she is not asking about if I intend on telling his wife or if she is just thinking I am focused on the job and affair.

Right now I am playing "possum" and purposely not even hinting at OM's family life.

I CAN pull the trigger any time I want to on divorce. To me though, that is an action I do not want to be in a position of wanting to reverse. if I do that, then it is not out there any more as the ultimate consequence.

Exactly! Could have not said that better.

Every case is different, and as you mentioned before, there is no exact science or blueprint in fixing this. Every WS has a different personality or is in a different mental state, that in a lot of cases, only you know or your gut feeling knows on how to set the pace in dealing with these circumstances.

Some snap out of the fog quicker than others, but when they do, and shame sets in and they realize the screwed up big time, having the divorce as the consequence then, will serve you better at that moment, then slapping it at them when they are not in the correct mental state or out of the fog. As ConoeVA mentioned earlier, there are other options to getting them to snap out of that fogged up mental state - such as exposure or the threat of exposure etc...

So I agree, do it if and when you are ready, and/or your gut tells you to do so... Rushing to do something, may push them into a situation of no return or a chance of never reconciling...

there are other options to getting them to snap out of that fogged up mental state - such as exposure or the threat of exposure etc...

Maybe it was pride or just self respect, but on Dday I told FWW that I was prepared to expose and unwind our whole M. My approach was total shock and awe. I wasn't there to keeping turning the cheek while being attacked with disrespect and lies. If you are in a war why not drop all your bombs at once to end it faster?

She groaned/cried immediately upon hearing that. I told her that I didn't signup for 3 people in a M and if the OM makes her happy then it is time to D. I also told her we need to sit down within the week to discuss a plan to tell the kids and figure out how to divide the assets. Fog lifted pretty quick. If it didn't I was ready to move on and away from evil.

Timetoact

You could hire a PI to hand deliver evidence of the affair to the OMW.

When she calls your wife to verify the facts the "surprise" of the call to your wife might be eye opening for her.....

You might want to add to your wife's day with a whisper in her ear "How would you feel if you got a call like this about my having an affair and our children were as young as their children now are?

Again, this is to wake her up.

She needs to feel consequences for her hurtful, selfish decisions. She opened up your marriage to a 3rd party without asking for your permission.

Have you asked her to get tested for std's?

You are doing great.

And when you notify the OM's wife make sure to know if the OM contacts her instead of his wife.

Your wife is selfish my friend. Break that selfish streak right out if her.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 2:35 PM, January 23rd (Saturday)]

I lived your story over 16 years ago; although my children were younger than yours are. In this years since our divorce, I have learned a lot more about infidelity than I would probably want to admit. However, something with your story is just nagging at me.

If I am summarizing this correctly, your wife seems to think that sex with someone else is okay, maybe even something she feels to which she is entitled. It also appears that she makes a decent living and could live well without you, although maybe not the high life you both have as a couple, which may be feeding her entitlement mindset.

From what I am gathering from your story, you appear to only have a few cards in your hand to play to get the results you need to decide if R or D is your path. One is exposure, not to her work, but to everyone else. A sure way to gauge her sincerity in R is to ask her to share what she has done with your children, her family and yours; preferably in your presence.

The second is to file for Divorce. I understand your statement that this is a road you don't want to start down and turn back from, but I've seen this many times on these boards as an effective way to see if WS is ready to commit to R and snap out of the fog.

I waited over four months for my WWXW to do what I am suggesting, and until I filed she never budged. After filing she was ready to do it, but I had reached my end and moved forward with the divorce.

These may be the only cards you have to play considering all that you have shared about your wife, her mentality, and her occupation, to get a true sense of her commitment to your marriage.

just my two cents...

I don't have much time right now, but I have no worries about telling OM's wife. OM did it for me.

Apparently, Mr. Pretty Boy was so scared about me going to their HR Department since my wife could not tel him what the hell I was going to do that he decided to confess to his wife himself. I'll give him a point for that one.

Anyway, yesterday my wife gets a call from his wife on her personal cell phone. Guess who??? OM wife, who is one pissed off camper. My wife was pretty much speechless, did not get much chance to apologize or anything. Then she asks to speak to me. WW puts me on phone.

I feel very bad for her. She tells me she apologizes for her husbands horrible intrusion into my life, and that she hopes I will find it in my heart NOT to expose them at work because she is a SAHM with no means of support for her children. She promises to me that he is sorry and has agreed to have NC and do everything possible to avoid her if they have to go to same meetings.

I have to say, listening to her tears and her pain, and worry for her young children, I was a little shaken.

So the bottom line is looks like no need for PI to notify OM wife.

It also appears that she makes a decent living and could live well without you, although maybe not the high life you both have as a couple, which may be feeding her entitlement mindset.

Rawlins, not sure about "entitlement" mindset. Too new to get there yet, but I have read that the higher a woman's income and social status, the greater the chance it is she will cheat if she has the opportunity. Probably for the reasons you state. Women do initiate more divorces than men and that increase is probably due to their being less reliant on men for their financial well being.

I have more digging to do. My wife does feel like shit right now. Well deserved I might add.

I still do not have the detailed timeline but she is working on it. I am still working on the details I want to know and what I think I might not want to know.

Right now, my distaste for OM went down a notch. my wife is my problem, not OM. That is what i need to focus on.

I don't know. I've been here on SI for a long time. And that phone call sounds off. It wouldn't be the first time an OM asked his friend, or his sister, to call the BH and tell him she's his wife, and she knows about the affair. That she called your wife, then asked to speak to you, means little.

I think you should call her at home, when you know OM is at work, and verify that it was, in fact, his wife. If it really was, she will understand your need to verify. If it wasn't...well..then she gets the truth from you about her marriage.

I know you have said you never mentioned outting OM to his wife. But, unless you are being super careful when you visit this website, your WW knows you're here, and has read your posts.

The fact that his "BW" was crying and talking about the kids..still means nothing unless you know for sure it was her.

Find a telephone number (indipendently) and contact the OMW.

Verify it's the same woman who talked to you.

That might have been staged. Or maybe not.

If it wasn't, great.

If your wife and OM tried to play games with you again, you'll know what you need to do with both of them...

I think you should call her at home, when you know OM is at work, and verify that it was, in fact, his wife. If it really was, she will understand your need to verify.

Confused, thank you. I plan to do that. He is supposed to be at the meeting my wife pulled out of next week. I did look at the phone number that the call came from on my wifes called ID on her phone. All of the digits were the same as OM, except for last digit. So unless OM has a friend female or relative with phone number almost identical, at this point I assume it was his wife.

My wife would have no reason to even suspect I even looked for an infidelity website. I have not had any conversation with her even mentioning I need advice of anyone. I think it would be idiotic to have my wife reading what everyone is telling me to do. And quite frankly, if she had read any of the advice i have gotten so far, i think she would have said something to tip that off. i will be careful though. Thank you for the warning.

Believe me, I am no expert on infidelity but I am also no dummy. I deal with a lot of large financial negotiations and back and forth. If that was not his wife on the phone, with what she said, they must have had a hell of a lot of rehersal time. That plus the proximity of phone numbers makes me pretty confident it was her.

I will call her next Wednesday just to be sure and OM better be at that meeting.