SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Right now, not sure if there will be any marriage.

Great answer. I'm almost 4 years into R. I was exactly where you are for a loooong time.

Strength brother

Timetoact...You are one sharp pragmatic guy & IMHO you are putting on a clinic considering the circumstances that brought you here. I am also happy you read through Walloped's 79 pages and all the wisdom presented from some of the best this site has to offer. The site was started by a couple who have recovered & is supported by the best community of people you never knew who give it back every day. May you & your wife continue to find peace. My heartfelt prayers are with you and your family.

I guess because I am new here, I am confused as to why it seems like people think TTA's response to Thedrifter was wrong. It was clearly aimed at Drifter's post and In no way slammed any other betrayed. Drifter's post was inappropriate, offered no assistance or advice and basically served to slam TTA for some perceived failure to go into histrionics at the mere mention of an affair. AS stated, TTA is a corporate executive. In my previous life, I was required to interact with a lot of corporate executives, and would have expected each of them to react the same way as TTA...methodically, with a purpose and without drama. He has never said that the sex didn't bother him, I thought he was quite clear that it did. Everyone reacts differently to betrayal. His way is not wrong, it just might be different from yours, and it doesn't mean that it doesn't impact him equally as much.

To be honest I don't think anyone got on TTA about his response to drifter. Drifter's post was very crass and uncalled for it and I would have responded to drifter the same way. TTA has done more than enough and has handled this situation perfectly.

Doing very well, one thing to add. How are postnups in your state. A condition of reconciliation included this and a poly.

ok, let's stop attacking other posters. The Drifter expressed his opinion. The OP didn't like it. Let's not pile on. I have seen the Drifters posts here and often they are on point but we all often say things others don't agree with. Timetoact didn't like it, he expressed that and it's done. Let's not turn on our own posters. My opinion.

Timetoact did a lot of good things here but is far from being out of the woods as he himself admits. Let's stop turning the guns on each other and either focus on helping him or just move on to other threads. JMO

[This message edited by Western at 7:27 AM, January 27th (Wednesday)]

I assume you're referring to my post,nomoregames?

He said he read about ww' s saying their AP had ED, and he was amazed anyone would believe that. It just seemed like a bit of a slam at other betrayed husbands here.

Obviously his post was aimed at theDrifter. And, in no way, did I say he was wrong. Nor did I defend theDrifter.

Ok..Sorry for the foreshadowing,TTA.

Let's all get back to supporting TTA.

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:11 PM, January 26th (Tuesday)]

You are following the right actions. Take one step at a time.

From other threads here, staying in the same job has not worked. Largely because the betrayed spouse can't deal with it. The work phone call is safe for affairs. That is true whether they work in the same company or different company. However, internal phone is not noticed so much as phone calls outside.

Work, in general, is a good safe zone for cheating. You can make believe you are going to work, then call in sick. Leave early, go in late. That is always there, working in same company or different, just that being in the same company is a little bit easier. The higher you up the food chain, the more independence you have in the company, the less it matters because no one is watching over you expecting you to be at your desk.

That is something to look at down the line. That is about step #23, you are at step #9. You have a long way to go, and sometimes these things work out themselves. Over time, you will get a better feeling for whether this will be OK or not. Don't be so sure it is OK. I suggest not to promise anything that you will not ask her to leave the job.

My wife wasn't in a co-worker affair. If she was, then I would ask her to leave the job. Long-distance company or otherwise. Because that is her consequence. There are music groups and songs that my wife got rid of because they were related to her affair. Anything related to the affair must go. That was my mindset. She had to quit the interest group that she met from other man. Walloped, I think, asked his wife to quit her charities. To me, if my wife wanted to stay involved in that activity, then she shouldn't have cheated there. Don't shit where you eat. Consequences matter, I think. I told my wife she could do whatever she wants, but so can I. That really always was true, we didn't need an affair to both do. But my wife had complete control to stay in the affair and sing the songs and all the rest, and I had complete control to leave the marriage if that's how it was.

Now these here below are all good things, needed things, BUT this is just the first step #9. There might be another 50 more steps. You did this quickly, most betrayed are in their own fog, so I have no doubt you will be OK no matter how this thing ends up. I also know that this list below is a list of what you have done, not what consequences have happened, but I want to focus on what consequences happened so far:

(1) put her out of the marital bedroom

- that is a very minor consequence, and temporary, but it is good if you want it.

(2) seen an attorney and can have divorce papers to hand to her in less time than it will take you to get to work

- that is not a consequence; it will be if you file; but it is good you have taken the steps.

(3) told my wife it was ending immediately

- that is not a consequence. Imagine me stealing a million bucks and my consequence would be, stop stealing from now on. Not even give the money back, just stop stealing from now on. But it is good that she agreed to end it. As you may remember, the one thing that gnaws at me and find disturbed is her initial reaction that basically, it's only sex, so it's ok.

(4) gotten access to everything she owns that is electronic

- that is not a consequence. She had secret communications that she never should have had. By the way, my wife never changed her passwords during her affair because she knew I would immediately think something wrong was going on. But it is good she now gives you access.

(5) told this forum that she does not interact with OM on company e mail daily or have any need to because they are in different zones on different parts of country

- with all due respect, how would you know if she was interacting with him or not? I neither believe or disbelieve that she is "no contact" with him right now, I cannot know. If she is in no contact now, for how long will that last? None of us can know our cheaters have stopped contacting except by their behavior and our hard-earned knowledge of her past cheating. To many of us, if not most, there were signs, but WE TRUSTED. We now longer and maybe will never trust that way again, so she can't cheat as easy next time. But we can't know for sure she is not in contact just because guy is across the continent and she says there is no contact.

(6) gotten a written timeline recommended by everyone

- this is a very important step, yet as far as how much of a consequence this is, I am ambivalent - basically she is telling the truth about the lying and hiding she's done. As far as consequences go, I am not knocked over by it. Combination with polygraph is a bit more of a consequence. It is not pleasant to have to go to an outside expert because her husband of many years no longer believes her. But very good she gave the timeline.

(7) talked to OM wife, which will be verified by a conversation tomorrow and a PI if necessary

- not a consequence on wife, but is on OM.

(8) scared the shit out of OM enough to have him confess to his wife.

- not a consequence, but good.

(9) will confirm tomorrow that he is at the meeting that she backed out of.

STD tests are a small consequence.

Giving up toxic friends would be a consequence, so would leaving the job.

Did she buy new lingerie for other man? Did she get cards and gifts from him to her and vice versa? I would say all lingerie/clothing for other man should go, that is my opinion.

Keeping gps, monitoring phones and logs and emails - those are so easy to get around, it almost is not worth the trouble. Maybe it is good when you are in the first month or two when it is raw, but it gets old real fast. I lasted two weeks monitoring. I couldn't look myself in the mirror. I have to check on my wife's messages so she doesn't fuck another man. I have to be her warden, or she will "escape" to fuck another guy. No, not for me. I would rather divorce. And if my wife wants the other man, good riddance. I encourage her to go to other man if I am not enough for her. That is me.

As you may remember, the one thing that gnaws at me and find disturbed is her initial reaction that basically, it's only sex, so it's ok. I worry there are other "just sex" guys in the past. I worry that she feels affair is acceptable as long as you don't know about it (which she said she would not want to know if it was just sex).

You have a good plan. Keep working your plan. Consider should there be some consequences.

Timetoact, I am one of those who thinks that, given the relatively short time since you found out, you are doing way better than many in the same situation.

Everyone's situation is different. You seem to be taking into consideration all the variables. Like a general who tends to think strategically, long term, rather than a tactician, who wins battles in the short term but may end up losing more if he gets carried on by his passion. Scorched earth warfare can hurt you as much as the intended target if carried out blindly, just for the sake of it.

Personally, I do not think you are the kind who is complacent with the situation; rather you seem to have an ability to pursue your goals according to the dictum "revenge is a dish best served cold".

Keep doing what you are doing! You are doing better than most.

Totally agree with LTS ^^^. I agree you are handling this better than most. Just want to add my support. I hope tomorrow goes well for you.

Folks,

Very glad to see that my comments regarding the one post did not start a negative firestorm. I may have overreacted to Drifters post. My nerves are a bit raw right now. 5454, Cajun,nomoregames,IJBrent, longtime sucker and wk55 I do appreciate all your support, as I appreciate the help of everyone who has chimed in.

Tonight, my wife asked to come back to our bedroom, and was pretty distraught when I told her I did not want to be physically that close to her yet. I do, but I don't. I think you know what I mean.

Wk55, I do agree with you on consequences, but if I am going to impose consequences that will in another way ruin our relationship, the as someone said I will win the battle and lose the war. And right now, my goal is to win the war.

Let me address your points

(1) moving her out of the bedroom is a minor consequence. I could make it more severe by asking her to leave the house for a while and go to a hotel or her girlfriends. How does that help me know what she is doing or talk to her.???

(2) filing for divorce. That is the ultimate consequence and like I said should not be used as a ploy or as something to threaten with unless I am totally committed to follow through. If there is any more infidelity, breaking NC, or what is referred to here as TT, I am prepared for that step

(3) Telling her it stops immediately. I made that as clear as you can make it. I do have to address the initial remarks. I think I understand what some of gthe thought process was, but I need more discussion I know on that

(4) I agree access to her electronics is no great consequence. There are so many apps and cheater shit out there, it is almost impossible to long term keep track of, and her company e mail is always available. If she worked for a different company how would any consequence be any different regarding company e mail. So what do I do, make her stay home with no electronics in a rubber room??????

(5) pretty much address in #4

(6) the polygraph WILL be a consequence, and just like getting STD tested is embarrasing, to be brought to a total stranger and answering intimate questions is a pretty serious consequence for an independent woman making over 150K a year.

(7,8,9) I guess I am doing OK on.

Let's get to the toxic friend. To my knowledge, it is only one that I know of. I have a list of every one of her girlfriends that I know, and I am going to go over each one of them individually and ask a lot of questions. One other note about girlfriends. She was supposed to go on a "girls trip" in late March for a week end. Before I got to that she told them she was not going.

The job is the big point of contention here it seems. I have made the decision, after careful thought, that the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars, actually over a million, will be a consequence on my children more than the OM, and it will cost me dearly if I do divorce and she has not found another job. If she cannot no bang this guy any more without giving up her entire career, what the hell is there to save????

And supposing she gets another job with travel, which is a distinct possibility, what the hell happens to consequences if her travel now takes her closer to where he lives. ?? Or where he travels to??? Right now, given she stays in the job, I like the 2000 miles and totally different regions and zones in the organization.

Last food for thought for tonight, and again I am sorry to be soe wordy, if my wife rerally wants OM, why does she need to put up with any thing I have even asked for so far.

She is a very attractive woman with a great job and career. If she told me to go fuck myself, she will walk away with almost $500,000 in equity for her half of the house if I buy her out, plus half of everything else. You don;'t think she could find another man who would be happy to marry her or have a relationship with her. So this is not some woman who will be destitute if she does not meet the expectations. She has to do nothing and she really has no reason to want to "cake eat" as it is called here I believe.

Maybe this does not make sense. Right now I still am a little unsure what the hell makes sense and what does not. I AM trying to maintain a methodical approach to my thought process, but please do not underestimate my ability to project anger. That has been communicated to her loud and clear in very colorful language.

Tomorrow afternoon, Mr. Pretty Boy get a call from me on his room phone. He better be there and registered. No, I am not going to talk to him. I just want the hotel operator to put me through to his room. My wife will be at her office, and if he is where the meeting is and she is there, they are a two hour flight away from each other. I got that one covered and I will know she is at her office.

One of my agreements with my WW is annual polygraphs by her (and she can request them of me, too) each January.

That way, she knows if she deceives me in the future, there will be an inevitable day of reckoning.

I also have pre- and post-nuptial agreements (we divorced and remarried).

Timetoact,

IMO consequences are not punishment I presume you have the same mind set.

This is very important as punishment could really harm even more your marriage.

There is factor that plays an important role as consequence or punishment… is the rage! You should what it very close.

Consequences must exist and IMO have been enforced and some more are to come yet, some of them are: Losing toxic friends, taking a poly, taking a STD, IC, etc.

Other kind of consequences are the ones that she must be willing o do in order to heal you save the marriage: Time line, Total NC (get a new job same level salary before quitting the current one), reduce trip meetings, be accountable of time and whereas when traveling, etc.

Of course there are other consequences that she must be starting to experience and are related with her feeling and thoughts: recognizing that cheating was wrong, that cheating is a big deal; that she has jeopardize her marriage, family and life style, etc. And the ones to come like guilt, remorse, etc.

Affairs have a lot of consequences that reach many people and goes on for a long time, she will see that.

Last thing about consequences. If you said that you will do something in case she broke NC, more TT, or any other thing, just do it! Otherwise she will “know” for sure that you won’t enforce any consequence and she can do whatever she wants.

This is still very fresh and I think you are doing pretty good, just take your time, don’t act over things that you are feeling for less than a couple of days, and of course don’t promise anything until she passes the poly (s). I believe you did right about her coming back to the main room, it is your call and you need to be ready.

BTW, how are you doing? Sleeping enough? Eating well? Exercising? You really need to take care of yourself.

Good luck

Time,

Really sorry you're going through this hectic situation, but you're doing awesome. Been reading your story and thought I could add a little to the awesome advice you're getting.

I think for the most part you are making the right moves, but I think more action needs to be taken in some way. Whether that is handing the divorce papers or reducing contact somehow, I feel she needs to feel the vacuum (the distance between you and her so she can feel it, miss it and make moves to show she is serious about your relationship). It's awesome that you have been resisting her sexual advances. That's making a good and powerful statement. Something else needs to be done though.

I say this because many of us stopped short when we saw our waywards getting emotional. It got to us and in a way it short circuited our best chance at the optimum outcome. We caved and it worked against us in the end. The respect our waywards had for us was suddenly lost again.

So yeah, something else to prevent the situation from stagnating.

I think you're doing great on all points, I'm just saying to consider consequences, not do anything about differently now, and keep your options open on her staying in the job.

There is another guy who posted here a while back, he said he was ok about wife staying in the same company, then as time went on, it bothered him, regular meetings coming up, and it wore down on him having to think about this each time it was going to happen, would they both be in there, etc. Eventually she changed the job and if I recall in his signature line here he had something like "she left the job after 327 days and then reconciliation started." That is just one I particularly remember, but there have been a lot of guys who initially thought it would be OK but as time went on, it bothered them, they kind of had to monitor who was going to what conference together where.

All I'm saying is what seems like something that is OK now might not be OK later, so keep your options open.

I think you are doing great and wouldn't change anything how you're handling it right now. I will just shut up now and let you do what you have to do.

I still fail to see the downside of giving the guy three months to find a new job. It's going to *significantly* hamper your recovery if they are at the same job, it may not seem like it now, but it will. You are giving yourself all these hypothetical about possible other jobs, but what you need to do is deal with the shit sandwich that they served you. He fucked your wife, make it sweat it a little bit and make him leave.

If he's a climber like you describe he'll leave. No way will be survive a black checkmark on his resume.

If he's a climber like you describe he'll leave. No way will be survive a black checkmark on his resume.

I'm sorry, but screwing a coworker who is not in the same report line (neither is the other's boss) doesn't matter at all to most HR departments. Ask any divorce lawyer. If he's good at his job, it really won't matter. And SHE was the aggressor.

I still fully support TTA's position. If it changes, it changes. I don't understand the constant refrain about this. He has an excellent point..her next job might throw her in closer with OM.

Either she will commit to R or she won't, and same goes for TTA. Personally I think he's doing well. The fact that he understands that controlling her actions will NOT mean she's committed to R shows he's way further down the path than most at this point.

I do think too much focus is being put on her job right now. TTA has clearly stated, FOR NOW, that he is okay with the current work situation. I am certain that if TTA gets more uncomfortable as time goes on, he will address it as necessary.

Working through infidelity is dynamic---of course there are some stationary issues, but things will continue to change as you go along. So far, you have done INCREDIBLY well---don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just keep forging forward.

Timetoact... Yeah... I had a few people that pissed me off a little at the start of my thread. Their intentions are good and one thing I have found out is that EVERYONE here has nerves! LOL I started a few posts with HEY, HEY, CALM DOWN! I know what you mean and how you feel.

It sounds like you are perfectly in control. But they are right about not setting out to R too soon. It doesn't sound like you are.

If my wife had come clean I would have liked to stayed with her and worked things out. The fact that the trickle truth kept coming out of her mouth and then some (hell, most) of her comments afterwards just showed me that she is a heartless bitch who I never really knew! Sounds like yours is the opposite! Plus there are still the lies my wife maintains and her vehement objection to a poly.

We just started talking about the SA today and she blew up... "You want 50% of MY account?" "You want to deduct $50k from the house you owned and sold before we were married?" Answer to both questions... YUP! Plus half the value of her new car she just bought and we had to pay off to qualify for the mortgage just on my income alone.

Anyway... Keep strong. You seem to have you spot in the groove. You know your wife better than us and she sounds like you want to give her a 2nd chance. I don't blame you at all.

Just make sure you find out 100% TOTAL TRUTH before you commit to R.

Hang tight brother!

[This message edited by MindBlown at 8:59 AM, January 27th (Wednesday)]

TTA,

Just wanted to chime in and say that I think you are handling this extremely well. A hell of a lot better than I did so soon after DDay!

I think your focus is spot on. Get her out of infidelity. There is no point in anything else at this stage. You need to know what you are dealing with and you are doing just that. You have plenty of time to determine who she is at this point and what you want. As you point out, she's financially successful. If she wants out, she'll be fine. So your strategy is sound.

One thing I do want to mention based on personal experience. Post DDay, I was in "to do" mode. Taking action, stopping the affair, getting my ducks in a row, keeping busy, dealing with work, kids, etc. Once all that was in place, I was left with a tremendous amount of emotions as this really and finally all hit me. What my wife did. What it means. To me. To us. To our family. This will happen to you too. Regardless of what you think now, the emotional roller coaster is coming. My long winded point is that you may want assistance in dealing with that when it comes. Individual counseling, etc.

Sending you continued strength.