SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am opposed to going after the other guy while giving the wife a free pass. Both were complicit, either severe consequences for both or no consequences for either. His WW doesn't deserve her life to be destroyed however while we all say "he's to blame", so is your WW. Your life shouldn't stay intact while theirs burn. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I have conflicts with R.

I do think you are doing fine and your compassion for the OBS is admirable.

What I will ask her is to give me her reasons again why she thinks we should stay married and what she plans to do to stay married and see if she comes up with it

If what she wants is to chill you out and start up making new FWB's on the road then what she will tell you will be worthy of Keats or Shelley so be ready for a great performance. And I have no idea how you will be able to tell whether she's lying or not.

You don't like what I tell you but I don't care as there will be other BH's who read this thread. You are overwhelmed and have retreated into your head for safe-harbor. You are stunned and grabbing on to anything that promises to make all of this go away. You haven't made her quit her job because you fear she will resent you for it. She will resent you - are you kidding me?

You are half-way committed to being tough and getting the whole truth. But you are also doing it all very carefully so you don't do anything that might prevent reconciling. That does not work. I don't care how many other poster's want to skewer me on this point but I promise you that holding back your emotions in order to be "sensible" is bullshit and I've never seen it lead to real reconciliation. Tough, strong action like kicking her out of the house or leaving yourself would be a great start. You need to end the sexual manipulation she is going to continue to pressure you with. Filing for divorce is the next step. If she does care about your marriage she will come to you begging on her knees for another chance. By that point you may have disengaged from her enough to walk away but you have the choice of hearing her out and letting her convince you of her sincerity. Most of her story at that point will be based on the truth so you should get enough to make the best decision for you. And if she never comes to you then why would you want her anyway?

I see through this "in control" and "if there have been others..." facade because so many men have been in your shoes and I've seen how the whole ugly mess progresses. You are panic stricken you are going to lose your marriage - the cornerstone of your world. And facing life without this woman you've lived with for decades is terrifying. So you fall back on your life experiences dealing with crisis management and do all the things you are doing right now. I'll tell you again; it's not enough. You need professional counseling and you need it right now. A devastating trauma like you are suffering from will not heal properly without some real live help. Without this you are going to make some very important life-decision blinded by fear and your desperate desire to get back your old life.

I am opposed to going after the other guy while giving the wife a free pass. Both were complicit, either severe consequences for both or no consequences for either. His WW doesn't deserve her life to be destroyed however while we all say "he's to blame", so is your WW. Your life shouldn't stay intact while theirs burn. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I have conflicts with R.

I never held much anger toward the OM because it was all on my wife. Do you really expect many men will turn down easy, no-strings pussy with a 99% chance the wife will never find out? Maybe my view of men is warped by all the cheating I've seen but I put nearly all of the blame on the cheater. In the case of a WW, the OM is likely just the guy she decided to fuck and if not him it would have been the next dude.

[This message edited by theDrifter at 11:51 AM, January 28th (Thursday)]

I repeat...take what is helpful and ignore the rest.

I don't think you aren't suffering just because you aren't sharing every sleepless moment with us here at SI. And despite similarities in many situations, not every situation is the same.

This is a highly charged forum and some people seem to be upset that you are not tearing your hair out on here. Most folks like you just stop posting early on because of all the flak that they get. I like that you are finding the balance between figuring it out for yourself and asking for advice.

This old timer says you are doing OK, and you will be fine ultimately either way. The fact that you don't need to see your wife "on her knees begging" doesn't make you a wimp, or a person who is avoiding the situation.

I'm leaving town for a week but you and yours are in my prayers. Hang in there.

[This message edited by latebloomer45 at 5:37 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

Haven't posted here yet, but I do agree with latebloomer45, you are doing well.

[quote]I never held much anger toward the OM because it was all on my wife. Do you really expect many men will turn down easy, no-strings pussy with a 99% chance the wife will never find out? Maybe my view of men is warped by all the cheating I've seen but I put nearly all of the blame on the cheater. In the case of a WW, the OM is likely just the guy she decided to fuck and if not him it would have been the next dude.

[/quote]

Drifter, that is exactly why given his family situation why my anger and concern is my wife. The guy is 2000 miles away , and just as you said my concern is that there is not another or previous beneficiary of what you call "easy pussy".

Late Bloomer

Thanks. I do not know why anyone gets the ideal that my wife is walking around having a blast here. She is sleeping in a guest room, her husband is barely speaking to her unless is is a question, she just got told she was probably the lowest piece of shit on earth by the OM wife, and she knows that I can pull the trigger real quick. OK, I have not listed all the instances she has apologized. Maybe that is my mistake, but she has not refused to do anything I have asked to this point, and there has been no resistance. If I leave the forum, it will not be because I am afraid of anyone's opinion. Everyone has one. Thanks again for your support.

If there are folks out there who think I am "wimp" of the year because I have not filed for divorce, kicked her out, told every human I know, and destroyed the OM and his family, then I guess I am that wimp. By the way, I would have no problem doing all of that if I thought this was still going on or if I find out it is.

Now for all the folks who want nuclear action immediately here that are not happy with me, there is a thread on Reconciliation where the poor guy caught his wife who he thinks he is in R with wearing lacy bra and panties and disappearing with OM two nights ago and he is calling that a "setback". I think he could use the destroy the world advice right now a little more than me. But I can take it and I am still very grateful to all those trying to help me, INCLUDING Drifter.

That guy has gotten that advice...because he had an obviously unremorseful ww.

He ignored those who told him to demand transparency, tell the obs,etc,etc.

He's gotten the shock and awe advice plenty of times. Now he has discovered there is another om. He's asking for no 2x4's, and we are respecting that.

[This message edited by confused615 at 4:55 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

1. Staying calm and making rational choices during crisis is the hallmark of the best of men. You are doing great with your choices. They are logical and not self-deluded.

2. The best way to remove doubts as to the future is to insist on a polygraph now, and one annually in the future.

1. Staying calm and making rational choices during crisis is the hallmark of the best of men. You are doing great with your choices. They are logical and not self-deluded.

2. The best way to remove doubts as to the future is to insist on a polygraph now, and one annually in the future.

Plan C, take my word for it. There will be one polygraph soon, and there will be MORE than one annually. I may be think like one per quarter for the first year. i could give a shit less about the money.

You're doing extremely well brother. I never took the drastic steps either. Granted, it took a while before I found this site, but I knew, I wasn't making any hasty decisions.

What I did do was a modified 180. My wife was regretful, but not showing true remorse for about 8 months(defined as proactive actions). I built myself up in the meantime.

Almost 4 years past D-day. I'm very close to claiming reconciled.

Strength

[This message edited by 5454real at 10:50 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

If there are folks out there who think I am "wimp" of the year because I have not filed for divorce, kicked her out, told every human I know, and destroyed the OM and his family, then I guess I am that wimp. By the way, I would have no problem doing all of that if I thought this was still going on or if I find out it is.

Nope - not saying or thinking you are a whimp. I think that you are reacting "typically" and I f'ing hate that. It means you are going to have to go through the whole ugly process that I've seen play out dozens of times. Maybe there is no shortcut - that the BH has to experience each little slice of hell in order to process it all. Maybe that's when to come back and re-read some of the advice being given to you now that seems a bit harsh. Regarding the easy pussy thing - it isn't "what I call it" - it's just a fact. A married women bent on cheating is going to give up what every guy in the world is looking for: no strings sex. Don't have to spend the night, don't have to buy her dinner, don't have to kiss her.... you get the picture. It's wham-bam-thank-you-mam and she's happy for the time and attention.

TTA,

You're doing great. As you've seen, there's a wide variety of opinions here, but they are all coming from a place of wanting to help you navigate this shitstorm in the way each poster feels is best. You seem to recognize this and take it in that spirit. Good.

Keep doing what you're doing.

Now, a few questions:

1) Has she approached you to discuss her affair more fully? Is she being open to your questions?

2) Does she want to stay married to you? Has she said so? Has she said why?

3) Is she willing to see a therapist (IC)?

4) How about you (I strongly recommend this)?

5) What else is she doing, if anything, to show her commitment to you and your marriage? Phrased another way, what is she willing to do, even if she doesn't have to do it? For example, quitting her job may not make sense for all the reasons you laid out, but she should be willing to take that step.

A few other things:

1) Get sleep aids and anxiety meds if you need it. I took Ambien and Ativan.

2) Careful on the anger. Hopefully it's calmed down a bit. Totally understandable, but you don't want it to get out of hand.

3) IC will help with that - sorry, I'm pushing, I know.

4) Lean on your brother if you can - it helps to have that support.

5) Good for you on the poly. Stick to that.

6) Sex. Understand that at this stage, it is pure manipulation on her part. She may not even realize it. It could be a desire to remain with you and she wants to show you that she wants to be close to you in a way that she can. But it still is manipulation. I am not saying not to have sex. I am saying be aware of it for what it is.

7)One of the biggest challenges a BS faces is trying to reconcile the feelings of love for your spouse vs what she did and the pain she caused you. Hence, the emotional rollercoaster. And with all that, it becomes exceedingly difficult to make rational, level-headed decisions in the wake of this mess.

You've been doing great given everything thrown at you.

Keep at it.

7)One of the biggest challenges a BS faces is trying to reconcile the feelings of love for your spouse vs what she did and the pain she caused you. Hence, the emotional rollercoaster. And with all that, it becomes exceedingly difficult to make rational, level-headed decisions in the wake of this mess.

TTA

Walloped is so right about this. Stop worrying about posters who want you to go "nuclear" on your wife.

You are doing great handling this mess.

I do hope you put some focus on you, your state of mind and your overall health.

Infidelity can be so crippling to a BS physically as well as mentally.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your wayward wife. Just realize she has not been the same woman you fell in love with, took vows with and have a family with.

Realize that the woman you love is selfish. She chose to lie and cheat. She chose to open your marriage without your permission or knowledge.

^^^^

That is the woman your mind has to deal with, not your heart.

Keep moving forward. You are doing great.

And your wife is very lucky to beloved by a man like you. Though I do not think she realizes just how lucky she is yet.....

HM

Timetoact,

I am glad you are open to all views. That is why you have a fighting chance here.

The thread on Reconciliation with the poster Minnesota. He ignored most of the hard advice he got, jumped into reconciliation mode almost immediately and then tried to rugsweep some. I followed that thread closely. I was hard on him to a point but backed off when the tide of the board switched to appeasing him.

Now, he doesn't want to know that he was wrong in judging her character (his request for no 2x4s)and now he has a serial cheat as a wife. And now all he has is 40 plus posters saying {hugs} which I don't really think fixes his situation as all. He needs action, not people patting him on the back. he had enough of that in his first thread. Many on this board called his WW for what she is. Some got attacked for that.

The truth is that your receptiveness to all advice here, whether it seems harsh or not, is what actually may be the deciding factor on you winning this battle with your WW and for your marriage or for your D if she fails to live up to expectations. Kudos to you on that. Kudos also to ignoring the calls of some who tell you to ignore others.

You are in for a long battle, both with WW and yourself. What you are dealing with is a mindfuck worse than death itself. Only you will know when you are at a good point or bad, though I agree with Drifter that most men I see here try fixing something that is stabbing them in the back as they try to fix it.

Just get to the truth as fast as you can. the truth you now have is bad enough as it is. Where do you draw the line ? Are you able to deal with the mind movies for years ? If you can, is she doing what she needs to just to get you past it, though you never should have been put there in the first place ?

You need to reach a point where you are out of infidelity and at peace of mind. Anything else is failure.

List objectives and a timeline. Monitor things closely and get some legal advice in case there is a failure. Protect yourself, whether you give her R or not. And get the damn polygraph done like yesterday !!

[This message edited by Western at 8:18 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

I've followed your thread. Haven't posted until now.

I love how you are handling this. This is hard painful shit. We all know it is. I'm here giving you a high five. Keep doing what you are doing.

TTA has made good strides but in the end nothing is going to change.

His wife will get back into the bedroom, he drops the D thoughts. OM keeps his family and his job. His WW keeps her job and family.

OM and WW continue to see each other every 6 weeks like before.

Either every expert is wrong about the requirement of NC or this is going to fail anyway.

The odds of making through this even with doing everything right, I don't get the point in encouraging someone to do something that is the number one thing that need to be done.

[This message edited by rambler at 10:43 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

Rambler, even though I am doomed to failure already, you took the time to try to help so I will answer.

T

TA has made good strides but in the end nothing is going to change.

His wife will get back into the bedroom, he drops the D thoughts. OM keeps his family and his job. His WW keeps her job and family.

My wife will have ALL of those things is she proves to me that she deserves it. If she proves she is remorseful, why should she not have that?? If she proves she is not remorseful through her actions, then she will have none of it. As will OM. You are assuming his wife is going to totally cave AND you have decided that given he has been exposed that he will refuse to keep his zipper up. A little early to have all that decided.

You are correct on the 6 week thing. Well, if she takes a polygraph every few months, and knows that will happen, either she becomes James Bond and beats it every time, or the renewal of the affair will be short lived won't it????? So again we have an assumption that both of the WS are too stupid or in love after 6 encounters to figure that out??

Sorry my friend, I'm not as pessimistic as you, but I am not in the R at all cost camp that is being referred to.

[This message edited by Timetoact at 11:42 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

Walloped,

I want to answer your questions. Stay with me brother.

(1) She has not refused to answer anything but I have a lot more to ask. B ut that is coming. Maybe I am not multi tasking well enough but my first objective was to stop the bleeding ( affair). This week end there will be a lot more talk. She never talked of leaving me for this OM, and if she wanted to leave after a half dozen hook ups, she can leave.

(2) there is no doubt she wants to stay married. I do not want to trigger you, so PLEASE TAKE THIS THE RIGHT WAY. She is not a SAHM with young children. If the did not want to be married to me anymore, her salary, investments, and what she would walk away with would allow her to have as many men as she wants. I have not much of the "why" discussion yet. I am getting there.And OM here had opposite reaction of POS OM of your wife who I think was happy and wanted you're wife to leave you. No such requests here or I have missed it all. And my wife ain't taking on three kids, full or part time. I am convinced that this is no LOVE AFFAIR.

(3) I have not gotten into therapist. If I find more lies and more OM or breaking of agreements, she can go to IC on her own time.

(4) This shit is still new. Right now, I am mad as hell, and I am seeing my physician tomorrow for some meds. Quite frankly, I am not a huge fan of shrinks. We have friends, some of who they have helped, and others who they have not, not all on infidelity issues. If I feel I am making no progress I will not resist. So far, I am able to function and watching my blood pressure daily. I have never smoked and I only socially drink. On the other hand she is crying a hell of a lot everytime our paths cross. I cry too but who the fuck wouldn't.

(5) My WW doesn't know what tghe fuck to do. She keeps asking, she keeps apologizing, I am guessing I will bring up the polygraph probably this week end. She wants to have sex, and like some have said, and I do not think it is a conscious attempt that she thought out and said if I fuck his brains out he will just be happy. I think women all know how much men are motivated by sex so I think she feels that that is the best thing she can do. It is hard for me to resist. So I guess I do agree with your point on manipulation.

Thanks for taking the time to lay out those points in a constructive way.

TTA,

Thanks for the reply.

First, you are multitasking exceedingly well. Your methodical approach is sound. Don't sweat it.

Second, don't worry about triggering me. And I get her situation. So...question. Why? Why does she want to remain married to you? And if she truly does, why the affair? She's financially independent and successful. Why does she want to stay? And why did she cheat? Note, don't let her blame you in any way. When you have that discussion, she needs to own her shit. Not lay it on you. You may own a good portion of the issues in your marriage, but her infidelity is 100% on her.

Third, the emotional roller coaster is real. The IC for her is so she can work on figuring out her why and work on herself to become a safe partner for you should you decide you want to stay with her. It's great that she wants to remain married, but R is a gift the BS offers to the WS. It is yours to bestow on her. The IC for you is to handle the anger and myriad emotions running through you daily. Crying is normal. Look, prior to DDay I was not a therapist guy either (had an issue with a profession where they got paid more the longer I didn't heal), but it has been very valuable for me. For whatever that's worth.

Fourth, we sometimes forget that there is such wonderful advice here on SI, that our spouses do not have the same benefit. They are making it up as they go along. No, I wouldn't expect your wife to know what to do. But even still, you can gauge whether her actions are sincere or manipulative. Are they designed to help you heal, or to put this behind you as quickly as possible and move on (rug sweeping)? I'm not ascribing ulterior motives, but you should know what you're dealing with. I believe some people are nervous on your behalf because her initial reaction was to refuse to stop having sex with him. Just keep a watchful eye out.

Last thing about sex. There's a reason we recommend implementing the 180 (in the Healing Library, top left hand yellow box). It's not a punishment for the WS, but a way for the BS to detach. To learn that they will be okay without their spouse if that's the route they go. To eliminate co-dependency, etc. So detaching, especially at this stage, might be a very good thing for you. Also, if you do have sex with her, understand that she may take it as you forgiving her, or that you're ready to "move past this," etc., and that doesn't sound like its the case.

Anyway, I think you're doing fine and are on track. You may have some more decisive steps to take in the near future, but for now, getting her out of infidelity is paramount and it seems you're doing well there, with figuring out what you're dealing with regarding her mindset as the next task in line. This weekend will be tough. We'll be thinking of you.

TTA has made good strides but in the end nothing is going to change.

I totally agree that he has made strides ......he is handling the "shit sandwich" very well......I also disagree that "nothing is gonna change" ....that part is wrong...... lots of waywards have done all the "right things" to win the betrayed spouse back.....the wayward section if full of waywards that "get it" ....it is possible....

His wife is showing true remorse...transparency....BOTH are required for R to happen....it is a long road.... R is not an "8 second ride" (rodeo joke - yeah...im a redneck) ..... R will not happen with a weekend of makeup sex and a couple of "im sorry's" ...it takes a long time....and a lot of work from both parties ...NC between APs is a "must do"....

My FWW had a 6...8 week affair ....and after her fog lifted ...did everything to "prove" she deserved me and our marriage .....everything.... R is possible......and did it before my "give a shit" completely stopped .....

good luck...

JMO......

Buffflao