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The OM is not your problem. If you "get to" the OM, the most you could accomplish would be to get him to disappear. Your wife would be exactly the same person she is now.

agreed

though

knocking her out of this affair is his first priority then working on the whys after, because she may still have this same mind set.

I am curious as to why she doesn't want your adult children to know. It is obvious that she has met the love of her life since she is unwilling to give him up.

Personally, I would file and not look back.

File. You're in a great situation. If she comes around and you want to reconcile, then ok. If she doesn't, then you are protected asap.

The one positive thing here is I have not heard anything about "love" for OM, or anything about what I would call great emotional connection. At this point, I think this is just a "sex" fun thing that she thinks she is entitled to,

Why does your wife think she is entitled to have sex with other guys? That is idiotic. Does want an open marriage.

Yes she sounds like she has become mentally unbalanced, no matter what her idiotic friends encourage her to do, why does she think she is entitled to this.

She states she loves you and wants to stay married, yet refuses to stop having sex with other guys, I say that is the definition of mental problems.

You asked how to knock her out of this, consequences are the only thing that can knock someone out of this.

Save everything, get a VAR and record all conversations with her.

Tell her parents about what is going on.

Hire the PI...you have it easy, you can afford one and your wife already admitted she is seeing this guy again when she leaves town.

Get the PI, get the pictures and whatever else the PI can give you...especially the OMs name.

And then you must tell this guys wife.

Consequences.

Hi, Timetoact, welcome to SI.

I admire your courage in handling the situation.

I am 10+ years out from my D-Day, and like you, I implemented Shock and Awe. My way or the highway. Worked like a freaking charm, I threatened to expose him at work and file for divorce among other things. I was like a bolt of lightening that hit him straight in his gut....repeatedly. No putting up with his sh*t.

One thing you will quickly learn from reading these boards is that you can never "nice" your spouse back. You need to take a firm stand. You need to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

If my husband told me he would not end things with OW (he also traveled), I would have had a PI hired pronto. An acquaintance of mine on this board hired a PI, got great pics, and all hell broke loose.

BTW, do you have access to ANY cell phone records at all? Might give you a clue.

My husband's A partner was a co-worker, my husband traveled for work basically every other week, that came to a screeching halt...either I traveled with him or he did not go. He found another job at my request, and I attended several business functions with him....all I can say is Too much alcohol, groping, touchy-feely, non-existent boundaries, colleagues gone missing, got so bad we stopped going.

Do what you need to do, and please read the post started by Spaceghost.

BTW, your wife's infidelity will surely affect YOUR ENTIRE family. It nearly destroyed my youngest. He is still angry after ten years.

how about taking off work and surprising her on this trip

^^^Not a bad idea, you just need to keep your cool if you run into your wife and OM.

I'd hold off on telling your kids because the trauma could fuck up their semester/quarter. If you do tell, do so as far from the next exams as possible. Just sayin'....

Think long term, not short term.

Right now, your W is a lousy risk to become a monogamous, loving W if she ends this A because of things you do.

You can't R unless she accepts that she has done wrong and works to change from cheater to good partner - and 'good partner' requires more than just monogamy. And she probably has to change for herself, not just for you.

Right now, she's nowhere near being a candidate for R.

R is a lot like a project, with AT LEAST the following exceptions: 1) the M relationship is different from 'colleague' and 'boss-direct report' relationships; and 2) R does not have an end point - R is building a new M, and a good M changes constantly, because we, as human beings, have to change constantly.

A management mindset is helpful in some ways - the concept of KPI really helped me, but it's not sufficient.

An example of change: at 22, I was fine thinking 35 year old women were not all that attractive; at 71, however, it behooves me to think at least one 71 year old woman is really sexy. That developed naturally, BTW. Now it's the 85 year olds who seem too old....

Not so BTW, It sounds like you've spent a lot of energy on responding to your W's actions. A lot of feelings of anger, grief, and fear get dumped on you when you've been betrayed by your WS.

All the thinking that went into your action plan may have put the feelings on hold, but you can't heal unless you process those feelings. How are you processing with them? Lots of BSes use IC (with a good IC) for help. Don't force yourself to deal with your feelings alone - get help before it's necessary.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:30 PM, January 20th (Wednesday)]

The one positive thing here is I have not heard anything about "love" for OM, or anything about what I would call great emotional connection.

She is trying to spin a story where it is "harmless" fun and where you shouldn't be so upset. She is leaving out the emotional component in order to try and get you to accept what she is doing as not that bad. Her actions tell a different story. She is protecting him with every ounce of her being. She is spending extra money and time to be with him. Even her statement "she really enjoys his company" speaks to an emotional connection.

I have not come down from a state of RAGE

While anger is a natural reaction to what you are going through, you need to be very careful. This is the point where other cheating wives see an opportunity to bait their husband and gain an advantage. If she can taunt you into anger and arrange circumstances so that you have ANY "threatening" response, she can call the cops, allege domestic violence, get a restraining order and have you tossed from your own house. I'm not kidding.

There are stories here on SI that validate this. In one, a wife grabbed her phone away from her husband, there was a short amount of wrestling and a DV charge was filed. My cheating SIL took a swat at her husband, he managed to deflect and grab her arm -- DV charge and restraining order. It is messed up how far a cheating spouse will go to manipulate the situation.

Pick up a VAR (voice activated recorder) before she gets home and keep it on you ALWAYS when she is around. If you have security cameras in the house, have them turned on. Do not allow your rage to be twisted around and used against you.

She cries every night, swears she loves me and wants to be married to me

Translation: She wants both lives. My wife, when in the fog of an affair, put it this way, "It is OK to have one man for family and another for fun?" She doesn't want to lose the house, the financial benefits, the kids, etc. Do what you are doing -- take it all away.

and begs me not to tell our children.

Your wife wants to keep living a lie and have you keep her secrets. Forget that. This impacts your kids too, even if they are at college. They are going to come home to either find mom still living in the guest room or out of the house altogether. They will need to know. When they know is up to your discretion.

What they especially need to know is that they are loved and that this isn't their fault in any way. It is traumatizing for kids to see this happen. They don't need the baggage of somehow thinking that it is their job to try and fix this. Model for them what they should do if they were ever in the situation. Let them know that their mom has met another man while on business travel, refuses to stop seeing him and that you won't tolerate the disrespect of having another person in your marriage so that you will be filing for divorce. Tell them that you you are heartbroken for how this will impact them, but that you've tried everything and can't see another way.

she leaves again next week and I know she is planning on spending a night with him. She told me that.

Guess you have everything you need in order to have a PI bust them.

Timetoact, you've been doing great so far. Stay strong and keep going!

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 12:50 PM, January 20th (Wednesday)]

One thing I forgot to mention is my wife has a girlfriend who I believe has been encouraging this and it's getting to thrill out of it. Their phone interactions have been constant in the last few weeks. I have never liked this friend so it does not surprise me.

That certainly happened in my situation. My XW became good friends with a 60 old retiree who dressed like a 20yrs old, was previously divorced. She encouraged my XW to "follow your heart" and lived vicariously through my XW's A (I read through their whole disgusting texting exchange) and it also validated her own decision to cheat on her own first husband. Curiously I have not seen nor heard from this toxic friend since my D was finalized am the damage was done.

Definitely stay on the course to D since she flat out refuses to stop the affair. She sounds like she is addicted to it like a coke addict which is probably why there is no declaration of love. This is her escape drug.

She will probably tell this OM that you now know and this may start to make him nervous as your WW turns more to him for support. He just wants easy side ass, not another drama Llama to pet and take care of.

Consequences are required and actions speak louder than words. Prep your list of requirements to R but keep showing that as long as the current situation continues with her that the D train will continue to pick up steam. Like annb says you can never "nice" them back and it is an undeniable truth.

If you have the funds then I highly suggest hiring a PI to get at least pics and info of this OM. It will come in real handy if he actually does have a wife and you expose the A to her with evidence.

You’re in a tough spot, bro. Sorry that you had to find your way here.

Just my $0.02 but can you hire a PI AND have her served at the same time? Can a PI serve her (not sure how that works)?

Even if you decide to R I doubt she’ll ever be sincerely sorry for these actions.

Frankly, I side with your brother.

Good luck!

What they especially need to know is that they are loved and that this isn't their fault in any way. It is traumatizing for kids to see this happen. They don't need the baggage of somehow thinking that it is their job to try and fix this. Model for them what they should do if they were ever in the situation. Let them know that their mom has met another man while on business travel, refuses to stop seeing him and that you won't tolerate the disrespect of having another person in your marriage so that you will be filing for divorce. Tell them that you wished their was another way and that you are heartbroken for how this will impact them, but that you've tried everything and can't see another way.

Thank you for putting this in a way that I can understand and support. This outlines a way to let them know but in a compassionate way that is not done out of anger or resentment or a sense of retribution.

You have done nothing that she cares about. She wants to stay married and not tell the kids. Check and check.

She's crying? Please. That is manipulation.

Full confession. No f'ing way? She refuses to give up his name, how do you call that a full confession?

Why the heck would you believe he is not a go worker? He may or may not be, I don't believe anything she says unless backed up by evidence.

The PI is a great idea and it would be even better if you could have it paid on her credit card, the same one she's paying her hotel trysts.

Listen, very few cheaters openly flaunt it like yours, so you just being "ready" to divorce her and "hope" for her to come around is woefully inadequate to shut this down.

You are a guy with some self respect and the affair is enough to swallow if you want to stay married. But if she continues flaunting, the worm will turn and you'll never want her back.

Get the PI. Put a voice activated recorder in her car. You'll get the info in a couple of days.

I am advising based on you wanting to get her to end the affair. My feeling and approach is opposite. I told my wife I thought she should go to be with other man, I'll even help her pack and I'll call him up and let him know she's his now, good riddance.

I'm sorry if it comes across harsh or too blunt, but I am trying to help. Push her away. Don't ask or demand for info or for her to stop. Tell her she has every legal right to f@@k as many guys as she wants, and you love her, so you want her to br happy. But you have every legal right to divorce her and yell all about it at thevtree tops, and you deserve to be happy, too. The best defense is a good offense.

If she doesn't care enough, why do you want to try? Is she really going to destroy you and her rep with the kids over a day of sex each month?

I have seen an attorney and I have divorce papers drawn up. I can afford to buy her out of the house. She cries every night, swears she loves me and wants to be married to me, and begs me not to tell our children. Any suggestions here on how to knock her out of this delusional state.

Timetoact

DO NOT “knock her out of this delusional state.” Proceed with divorce with all speed before she snaps out of it. Don’t tell anyone about the affair until the divorce is final. Don’t promise to keep it a secret or threaten to spill the beans.

Just keep the affair information as an unspoken veiled threat until the divorce is final to get good terms in the divorce. In fact, with her in the spare room you don’t even have to tell people you’re getting divorced until its final.

If you’re forced to tell people about the divorce just say that you drifted apart. Once its final you can tell whomever you want about the affair.

If you want to R someday it is better to do it from a position of power with a final divorce in your pocket.

Tells me she is sorry for what she did, did not plan for it to happen, but that she really enjoys his company when she is away from home, and she could not understand why if it was 'just sex" that I could not just get it out of her system.

Timetoact

Even in good marriages women in their 40s seem to have affairs when someone shows them attention. I think it proves to them that they still have it. Sometimes an empty nest is a factor. Relationships are more important to women than the sex act. They never intend to leave their husband and family so to them they are remaining faithful in what matters to them. Men tend to care more about the sex and some women just don’t get that at the gut level.

Then they have sex with the OM and release the hormone oxytocin upon orgasm. Oxytocin is the bonding hormone. It is released when women nurse their babies. It also causes them to bond with the OM. It may have started out as only sex but then the woman gets confused about her feeling for the OM.

One thing I forgot to mention is my wife has a girlfriend who I believe has been encouraging this and it's getting to thrill out of it. Their phone interactions have been constant in the last few weeks. I have never liked this friend so it does not surprise me.

Timetoact

This is quite common. Sometimes I think half the fun of an affair is telling their girl friend all about it.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 3:46 PM, January 20th (Wednesday)]

My wife dropped the guy immediately and I reconciled, but I'm pretty sure my wife wouldn't have flaunted like yours no matter how it turned out.

Some balls on her, huh? Big brass ones.

I agree with wk55hn (as usual!).

Why are you so sure the OP is not a co-worker? Because she told you? Instead it's someone she met in a bar who is apparently willing to fly around the country to have sex with her!

Call me skeptical, but I smell a rat. Does she not travel with colleagues, her boss, anyone she would want to protect because if she didn't her job and her work-life reputation would be impacted?

Regarding her belongings, I personally would put them in a spare room for her to collect, not a storage locker.

If she is yapping and telling her friend everything - put a VAR in her car - hide it well - NOT IN a door or seat pocket. You will learn a lot from that... the sooner the better... and a few days before her next trip.

So she's banging him, and she keeps banging him.

She'll probably bang him until the very last possible moment D's about to go ahead or it's about to be finalized.

180 on her. No talking, I mean she's telling you she's going to bang him, talk about disrespect!

Just give her D papers, the papers to buy her out, then start living your life, going out with the buddies, etc, I mean like you're single again (sans dating of course), buy your own grub, total 180.

You're molly coddling this woman, what's she doing is unconscionable, "fog" or not.

From my view point you are doing all of the things that normally knock a WW out of the fog.

I'd want to know who the OM was too and I'd want to tell his wife. She is protecting him in order to keep the A going. Can you get phone records? Can you put a VAR in her car when she talks to her friend? Can you track what hotel they go to by the credit card (for the PI) ? Can you view her texts?

How can you be sure it's not someone she works with?

You are doing great.

I can't believe she said I love you in the same conversation she told you she would not give up having sex with the OM.

First of all, thank you to those who have responded. I am trying to logistically figure out the best thing to do first. I want to find this guy, not because I want to meet him or talk to him. He would probably shit in his pants if I confronted him in person. i am a pretty big muscular guy. i want his wife to know what a piece of crap she is living with.

And if i can figure out how to knock some sense in to my wife i will listen to R talk if I can figure out how to verify shit she tells me. nothing is clear yet EXCEPT the status quo is NOT remaining as is.

I have taken the suggestions and not moved her stuff out of house. it is all in a bedroom and basement. it would take another house to get all her clothes in one place so i moved enough stuff to make it really incomfortable and clear married life ain't gonna be fun right now.

Freeme, I do know what hotel they have been using. She was stupid enough to print out a bill and pay it by check so I did see a statement with the hotel name. no guarantee they will do it again but they have no reason to change it because she has no clue I know this.

I am heavliy leaning towards taking a few days off work, hiring a PI, and being there, at least in the same area. not sure if i want to turn this into "Cheaters". i might wind up in jail or not get his name. Does this sound like a decent plan?????

Got a text from my wife. She all of a sudden wants to talk tonight. I did not answer her. not sure whether to be around or to leave the house. My inclination is to stick around. i am not the type that avoids confrontation.

Still in a mad and angry state. my kids both go to school in different states and it is a plane ride for both. I would not want this news told to them any other way than in person. money is not an issue in their school. my son is on a full athletic scholarship and my daughters tuition is no problem.

I'm going to pour myself a strong one and wait to see what she has to say tonight.

I know i may not be moving fast enough for some of you but believe me there is not going to be any acceptance of this shit.

First of all...do not go to jail. Do not do anything illegal. I think many of us have been close to that. I know I tried to find the OM at his favorite bars and always missed him, and looking back I am glad I did miss him, or I would have killed him. So do not do anything wrong.

If you go with a PI, follow their instructions to the letter, and no, this is not an episode of cheaters.

You say the OM might shit his pants if you confronted him...that is always a wonder. Makes you wonder if your wife told him that you now know. I have seen it work both ways, but usually, the OM continues the affair even after they know the husbands knows, and I have no idea why, other than no common sense in any way.

It might be best if the PI does his work, get the pics, and this guys name and contact information and you go from there.

Also, I dont think it is legal for you to throw her stuff out or kick her out, so forget those suggestions.

Got a text from my wife. She all of a sudden wants to talk tonight. I did not answer her. not sure whether to be around or to leave the house. My inclination is to stick around. i am not the type that avoids confrontation.

Get a VAR now so you can record whatever she has to say.

And once again, keep your cool, do not go to jail or even get some kind of phony domestic violence charge on you. Do not let your wife push your buttons...remember, no matter what she says and or lies, you have the upper hand now going forward.

You dont like to avoid confrontations and I am the same way, you want to know where the enemy is coming from, you want to know what they have to say. So do more listening than talking.

Dont make threats, and be non-committal.

Timetoact,

How do yiu know tha she is protecting this guy because she is love and not just to keep the sex encounters?

IMO if she is throwing away her marriage is not only for sex. If she has no feeling for him why she keeps wanting to met him even when yoi filed for D?

Sorry but IMO there is much more...