SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Her not attending is not an option

^^^The foundation of R is NC. No Contact. Period.

With reconciliation comes consequences. No consequences = likelihood of the affair going underground or another affair.

My WH had an A with a co-worker who lived on the opposite coast. He would have probably had to visit her site about once a year. There was the potential for minimal professional email communication. No way on this planet earth would I tolerate any communication, and there was no way he would EVER visit her site again. He understood that he could no longer perform his job as required. My WH had built up a successful 25-year career with the same company, down the tubes it went. He found another job, much, much less travel, and a much better job.

You will go crazy knowing your wife is in meetings with this guy. Will they meet prior to the work day for coffee? What about lunch hours? After work? It is very easy to take an A underground, throw-away phones, new email accounts, etc.

OW husband in my situation intercepted a very telling email between my WH and his wife....before the A became physical. Confronted both of them, they assured him it would end, OW husband began to leave his job earlier than usual and take his wife out on dates. Nope, didn't stop my WH and OW. OW "wanted him even more." My WH traveled to her site, and the relationship turned physical.

She should be considering leaving her job if she is truly remorseful.

Nice job keeping your cool, being firm and getting more out of her!

A few thoughts after your progress tonight...

1. Now that the OM knows you are on his trail, he will likely start spinning stories to his wife. It will probably go something like this -- His friendship with your wife is because he is trying to help her out. You are an abusive/paranoid/jealous person and your wife is at her wits end. In fact, you've started to cause trouble at the office making accusations that their friendship is actually an affair. -- He will also be on the lookout for any ways in which you could attempt to contact his wife. When the time comes to reach out to OM's wife, make sure to do it in a direct way that can't be intercepted, bring your evidence and dispel any "crazy person" thoughts through being personable and empathetic.

2. Your wife is changing tactics and sees that being blunt about her intent to keep the A going wasn't very smart. She likely now believes that she can lie and manipulate you and still do whatever she wants when she is traveling. Go ahead and let her believe that this is working while you line up a PI and prepare to out the A to the OM's wife.

3. Given how things went tonight, you may be able to expect relative calm until you out the A to the OM's wife. Get yourself prepared for when that storm breaks.

If you have hopes that your wife will come to her senses and that saving the marriage will be possible, what you are hoping to see from your wife is the following...

- NC (no contact). In any form. Ever. That likely means that one of them will have to leave the company.

- Honesty. She answers every question. At any time. As many times as you want. That includes a polygraph should you choose.

- Transparency. You have full access to all forms of communication. Cell phone, computer, email, social media. etc. Deleting isn't allowed. Hidden phones or accounts aren't allowed.

- IC (individual counseling). She needs to figure out what character gap exists inside of her that made her believe that cheating was ok.

- MC (marriage counseling). When you are ready. She will likely need to do some extensive IC to get herself sorted out before MC makes any sense.

Keep up the pressure and keep posting!

Wow, you did great. You have held strong during both the confrontation speech and this last one.

The good news is that while your wife is not "there" yet she is at least moving quickly to "there". I have no doubt you will divorce her if she tries to keep you in limbo too long and I'm sure she is just as keenly aware of that.

Most Waywards do what your wife did. Deny, lie, try to keep the A going, then withhold the truth...until they realize what they have to lose.

Once you tell the OBS your WW fantasy world will explode. Suddenly, rather than a harmless but exciting fling... she realizes she an OW that she not only betrayed her husband, and family but might have caused the break-up of another marriage.

I'm not saying that your wife did great during the discussion (you did great) but she was the typical Wayward.

Few things about telling OBS

1. Time is critical. This needs to not wait. It is THE next step

2. Your wife's lover probably already has temporary control of her Facebook, make sure you only speak with her via the phone.

I agree with the others:

Tell the OM's wife ASAP (don't tell your wife that you are)

Your wife and OM are already spinning a story for OM's wife like you are some crazy jealous husband, I hope you have proof to show her.

If you are going to try and R (reconcile)

The toxic friend will have to go (the sooner the better)

and most importantly one of them (your wife or OM) will have to quit the job. R will be very difficult if not impossible with them still working together.

with them still working together every trip will be suspect.

and the affair will easily start up again after a while 6 months a years.

One thing that might help if they will still have to work together is for you kids to know what is going on.

Or if she insist on still working with him, tell her that you will have to tell your kids what is going on that may sway her mind.

she maybe trying to figure a way to keep the affair and take it underground be ready for this.

and to keep from a false R you will have to monitor her for a while, using a VAR (voice activated recorder) may help.

[This message edited by convert at 8:01 AM, January 21st (Thursday)]

I have been following this thread and I must say I am very proud and impressed with how you are dealing with this shitstorm.

With that said, be prepared for the emotional rollercoaster - it's normal. Right now you are in "business" mode so you can do what is necessary to blow up the A and take care of your best interests. It's important to keep posting here so we can help you through no matter what part of the rollercoaster you are on.

some of you were right

Sad but true. SI was my lifesaver and while I did not always like what was said (especially in the beginning when I was in the "BS fog") or if there was conflicting advice, I followed the SI mantra: "Take what you need and leave the rest."

You have received excellent advice, but one piece of advice that bears repeating: Your WW needs serious help. Help you cannot provide. You cannot fix her. Someone who so blatantly expressess that she did, and will continue to, sleep with another man, well...that's just a whole new level of some serious mental issues that must be addressed in order for your M to work (if that is what you decide you want). In my humble opinion (IMHO), this should be another condition of potential R. No compromises on that one. Also, the crying and such...again, IMHO, she's in damage control mode. She does not want the kids to know, wants to be a cake eater, and you just blew that up when you caught her. That's why she is crying and likely why she is providing some info to you - kind of like hush money...

You are in the driver's seat. Fasten your seatbelt, though...because it's a rough ride. But you will survive...no matter what the outcome of your M.

Make sure that while you are dealing with so much that you take some time for you and do something that you enjoy. I normally suggest a mani/pedi/massage to the ladies Seriously, though...take care of yourself...not just by eating, hydrating and exercising (that's a given).

Lala

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 8:00 AM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Now that the OM knows you are on his trail, he will likely start spinning stories to his wife. It will probably go something like this -- His friendship with your wife is because he is trying to help her out. You are an abusive/paranoid/jealous person and your wife is at her wits end. In fact, you've started to cause trouble at the office making accusations that their friendship is actually an affair. -- He will also be on the lookout for any ways in which you could attempt to contact his wife. When the time comes to reach out to OM's wife, make sure to do it in a direct way that can't be intercepted, bring your evidence and dispel any "crazy person" thoughts through being personable and empathetic.

Very probable

Given how things went tonight, you may be able to expect relative calm until you out the A to the OM's wife. Get yourself prepared for when that storm breaks.

Very probable

Strategy collusion with not-friend-of-the-marriage and the OP probably did happen last night.

Your wife is changing tactics and sees that being blunt about her intent to keep the A going wasn't very smart. She likely now believes that she can lie and manipulate you and still do whatever she wants when she is traveling. Go ahead and let her believe that this is working while you line up a PI and prepare to out the A to the OM's wife.

Crushed7 is right on point.

There is no doubt I can probably get them BOTH fired.

Timetoact

Do you want to R or D? If you want to R then follow the great advice that you’re getting here. If you want to D then talk to your lawyer. He will tell you to play nice. If she gets fired it may negatively affect your divorce.

Your life was suddenly taken away from you in a very unfair manner. Your first reaction is to fight to get it back.

Your wife is acting bazaar and thinks she’s being reasonable. Your reaction is to set the record straight and point out to her how ridiculous her expectations are.

My instinct is to set the set the record straight just for its own sake. It makes me feel better if the other person just admits what happened. I don’t need any compensation, the admission is enough. Over the years I’ve learned to stop and ask myself what do I want. Sometimes it’s best to let them think what they’re going to think and get what you want.

Slow down and figure out what you want in the long run then go for it.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 8:45 AM, January 21st (Thursday)]

I'm glad your conversation was productive, if not very pleasant.

You've received a good deal of very good advice. Listen to wk55hn - he's exactly right. We all think our situation is different. We also tend to believe in our spouses, after all, we married them, love them, trust them. Yet, here we are.

You are getting what is known as Trickle Truth (TT). I'm sorry, but there will be more of it - you do not have the full story. Your wife not coming clean upfront illustrates that she is a) protecting POS, and b) wants the affair to continue. This is a co-worker, not some random guy who she ran off with for some exciting sex. That means a relationship. She's invested. She has feelings for him. That's what you're up against.

So, file divorce papers. If you are even considering remaining in your marriage, the affair fog needs to be lifted. Serving her with papers will help. That is also why others have suggested telling POS' wife. (As an aside, I agree to not tell HR at this point. If you divorce her she'll need an income and her current job will ensure little alimony. And in that case, who cares about No Contact. But if you are considering staying in the marriage, No Contact is a must.) If he is typical cheating POS, he will dump your wife in a heartbeat and that special relationship your wife believes they have will crumble. My wife's walking dildo told her he was divorced - he was married an in marriage counseling with his wife. She was in La La Land - unicorns and rainbows and butterflies. It evaporated once I shed the light of day on the whole thing. Do the same.

But most importantly, please know that you cannot - absolutely cannot - trust anything she says. This was the hardest thing for me. That the person I was with for 20+ years would lie to me. But then, she had no problem fucking another guy, right? So, right now your wife is lying. She is minimizing, obfuscating, giving you what she absolutely has to. Partly to protect POS, partly to protect herself. You don't know if this was an exit affair or something else, but if it wasn't with the intention of leaving you, then her world has just shattered because she never thought about getting caught. They never do. She's in self-preservation mode and she doesn't know what to do or what she wants. Use it to your advantage by controlling the conversation.

Expose the affair. File for Divorce (you can always stop the process). Get as much info as you can.

One more thing: Please take care of yourself. You are operating on rage and adrenaline. You will crash. Eat, sleep, drink plenty of fluids, exercise. These are necessities. Don't neglect them. See a doctor for sleep or anxiety medication if you need them. Take care of yourself.

she was at her girlfriends, who is divorced and a true piece of shit.

When you ready to set the rules and give her boundaries - she needs to limit her time with these "wonderful" friends of hers. These "mutual friends" are a lot of the reason they land up in this mess.

When they hang around their divorced friends, it is like a chain reaction, before you know it, they are having affairs, find a lot of fault with their husbands, and start having affairs, because after comparing notes with the divorcee friend, you are not longer good enough for her. The divorced friends encourage them to do all this sh1t. Something to think about if and when you get to that point...

I asked her to leave for the night and either go vto a hotel or to a girlfriends.

She was not happy about it but she left and texted me she was at her girlfriends, who is divorced and a true piece of shit.

It is very important to keep observing her actions and that is an interesting choice she made there, isn't it? Rather than go to a hotel to think about the the discussion you both had and saving the M, she chose instead to go to her toxic friend for a "WTF do I do now?!?!" brainstorming session. You say she is going out of town next with this POSOM, right? I would lay low for the time being and turn down the heat, make them think you aren't going to do anything like expose them at work or to the OBS. Answer her questions about what you are going to do with "I don't know what I'm going to do." and keep them in the dark. Your WW, her toxic friend, and the POSOM are making plans to spin this. Your WW will definitely meet the POSOM in person next week for one "last bang" and discuss how they both can lay low and avoid consequences, maybe plan how take their A further underground. Hire that PI pronto so you that he/she can get ahead of their meeting and get to the hotel they are likely to stay at for survelliance and gather a shit ton of evidence. I'm telling you as an OBS in my prior shit situation that evidence is HUGE when exposing to the unkowning OBS, who has probably been gas lit into thinking that YOU are a nut job that is about to come and make really crazy accusations. Given that you said you are rather sizeable and muscular, it may be a better idea if you have your PI do the talking first with the OBS but you be nearby to come in and finish the discussion.

As for exposing at work, once you expose to the OBS this may take care of work exposure as well. The OBS may be the one to demand her POS WH quits that job. She may also end up going to the company and exposing both your WW and POSOM as well. But it is essential that the OBS knows at some point SOOON to be able to force their WS to draw their attention, time and resources away from your WS for crisis management. When your WW and the OM are too busy putting out fires and playing "whack-a-mole" with the consequences the reality starts to really set in quick.

i say keep it simple. Inform the other guy's wife *immediately* and file for divorce.

then see what your wife does. Her reaction will tell you what you need to do.

Not much time now, but since a lot of folks have tried to help me, I just thought I would update. Not much sleep last night. I guess that is par for the course. I did take a half day off today and will go home early and both of us are taking off tomorrow. I need to figure this all out before next week and like I have been told, make some decisions and specific action plan.

At 4AM she came home, Wales into the bedroom and tried to climb into bed with me. I must admit, I did want to hold her but I did not, and I refused any sex with her.

First major surprise. It appears her girlfriend, who thinks no strings sex is as normal as apple pie , has actually talked SOME sense in to her and recommended that she try to talk to me about what she should do to avoid a divorce. I told her that one was simple, that she needed to figure out a way to get me to believe that her and OM were done fucking. Sorry for the bluntness. Not trying to offend anyone with my language.

I got a rather lukewarm promise that she would not have send with him anymore. How I would be sure of that I guess the Lord has to figure out.

You are all right. She and OM had a conversation last night. From what she admitted, or said, she told me she told him it was over , and that there was no more physical contact. I know that that means NOTHING . Just saying what I was told.

She did tell me OM was scared shitless now about exposure at work and possibly losing his job. She said nothing about him losing his marriage. For any of you kind folks reading this, don't worry about that one. I am going to do everything in my power to make losing his marriage a reality. Take that to the bank. But I said NOTHING to my wife about his family life. Just concentrated on how I get through this trip next week and get some idea if she fucks him again.

My kids do not need to know this right at this moment, so I hear everyone but that is on hold right now. And they are old enough to know the truth if it comes to that and I will not lie to them.

I AM going to hire a PI, have already made some calls and hope to have that one locked up by this evening or tomorrow morning. She told me the meeting is at a conference place off site, I know the address, and I know where she has hotel reservation. I AM considering flying there myself to be at close location, but not sure if I can work that one out.

That is it for now. I know I have a lot to get my head wrapped around. I have not even gotten to worrying about the sex they had and all the other shit. Not sure how much that matters yet. I am sure it will at some point. Last thing, I did tell her that if she is off today and tomorrow that I want some kind of written timeline and it better not be bull shit. She said she would try her best. We'll see what that means.

At 4AM she came home, Wales into the bedroom and tried to climb into bed with me....

...and recommended that she try to talk to me about what she should do to avoid a divorce.

She and OM had a conversation last night...She did tell me OM was scared shitless now about exposure at work and possibly losing his job.

Thank you for the update. Please re-read what I wrote further above. Her world is falling apart. OM is a POS and is now scared about his job and marriage. Poof. They're done. Ruh-Roh. Now comes the "Oh Shit!" moment. If you divorce her, then her whole life falls apart for some meaningless sex, hence the "I'll try and seduce him" tactic.

See...it's about avoiding divorce. Not about you. Sorry. It may even be that they're not done, but she'll tell you they are and the offer of sex is to placate you. Because there's this...

I got a rather lukewarm promise that she would not have send with him anymore

This is troubling. She should be swearing up and down that they're done and she'll do anything to make sure you don't divorce her. The fact that you didn't get that from her is a major red flag. Proceed with caution.

The pain and shock will hit, so again, please take care of yourself.

You are right to hire a PI and not trust her. Stay the course. Consult an attorney. Understand your rights. Information is power.

Sending you strength.

It appears her girlfriend, who thinks no strings sex is as normal as apple pie , has actually talked SOME sense in to her and recommended that she try to talk to me about what she should do to avoid a divorce.

Interesting choice of words "...avoid a divorce." instead of "do anything to save your marriage." Don't give her toxic friend too much credit just yet. "Avoid divorce" could also mean

- Love-bomb you back in your place, calm things down back at home and continue the status quo so that she could kick start the affair again later when everything is under control...

- Delay divorce to buy some time so your WW can find a good lawyer to screw YOU over...

Just be wary of anything. You're doing GREAT, Timetoact.

Do not let her sleep in bed with you until you get the written timeline. When you get the written timeline take a picture of it with your phone and also make a copy of it if you can. it needs to make mention of sexual contact or it's worthless.

instead of sitting on your hands today make an appointment with a lawyer. this is beyond critical.

don't allow her to use words like "try" and "we'll see". If she says she'll do something say "can you commit to getting this done by 5pm tonight?". this is a managerial trick, it always works.

you need to be sitting in a lawyer's chair sometime within the next six hours.

Just something to think about, why is she even going on this business trip? You can save yourself a good chunk of change w/o the help of the PI. You know they had an affair, what else do you need to know?

If she is truly remorseful, she will do anything to help you feel safe. When I discovered my WH affair, he halted all travel, spoke with his boss giving him some BS about needing to be close to home for awhile.

Once you inform OM wife, this entire scenario will blow up. I think you need to tell her BEFORE next week.

Keep in mind, cheaters lie and what your wife told you about cutting ties with OM could be just a bunch of malarky to settle you a bit.

i say keep it simple. Inform the other guy's wife *immediately* and file for divorce.

then see what your wife does. Her reaction will tell you what you need to do

^^Agree with mike7, keep it simple, you don't need the extra drama right now.

Stay the course you've already set. You've got a great handle on things and your bullshit detector seems to be working perfectly. She is certainly changing tactics on you, but it is very likely that this is the only thing that is changing. A PI should help you sort that out quickly, but any additional monitoring points (e.g. phone/text usage, knowing if she has apps to secretly communicate with, etc.) could be useful.

Take care of yourself. The shock will eventually wear off and the pain will start to set in. Stay hydrated, get enough nutrition even if that means going to something like meal replacement shakes and get as much rest as you can. If any of these starts to get out of whack, get help from a doctor sooner rather than later.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 11:00 AM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Not much time now, but since a lot of folks have tried to help me, I just thought I would update. Not much sleep last night. I guess that is par for the course. I did take a half day off today and will go home early and both of us are taking off tomorrow. I need to figure this all out before next week and like I have been told, make some decisions and specific action plan.

At 4AM she came home, Wales into the bedroom and tried to climb into bed with me. I must admit, I did want to hold her but I did not, and I refused any sex with her.

First major surprise. It appears her girlfriend, who thinks no strings sex is as normal as apple pie , has actually talked SOME sense in to her and recommended that she try to talk to me about what she should do to avoid a divorce. I told her that one was simple, that she needed to figure out a way to get me to believe that her and OM were done fucking. Sorry for the bluntness. Not trying to offend anyone with my language.

I got a rather lukewarm promise that she would not have send with him anymore. How I would be sure of that I guess the Lord has to figure out.

You are all right. She and OM had a conversation last night. From what she admitted, or said, she told me she told him it was over , and that there was no more physical contact. I know that that means NOTHING . Just saying what I was told.

She did tell me OM was scared shitless now about exposure at work and possibly losing his job. She said nothing about him losing his marriage. For any of you kind folks reading this, don't worry about that one. I am going to do everything in my power to make losing his marriage a reality. Take that to the bank. But I said NOTHING to my wife about his family life. Just concentrated on how I get through this trip next week and get some idea if she fucks him again.

My kids do not need to know this right at this moment, so I hear everyone but that is on hold right now. And they are old enough to know the truth if it comes to that and I will not lie to them.

I AM going to hire a PI, have already made some calls and hope to have that one locked up by this evening or tomorrow morning. She told me the meeting is at a conference place off site, I know the address, and I know where she has hotel reservation. I AM considering flying there myself to be at close location, but not sure if I can work that one out.

That is it for now. I know I have a lot to get my head wrapped around. I have not even gotten to worrying about the sex they had and all the other shit. Not sure how much that matters yet. I am sure it will at some point. Last thing, I did tell her that if she is off today and tomorrow that I want some kind of written timeline and it better not be bull shit. She said she would try her best. We'll see what that means.

This, and your prior post show me that you're doing amazingly well. You really are. I haven't weighed in on your case, but rest assured, the advice you've been getting is really good advice. Some good posters are weighing in (wk55hn is almost always 100% dead-on...listen to him!). Often, post-count matters.

I'm impressed how well you're handling this shit sandwich. Reading these boards and posting as much as I do, your WW is a tough case. She is. Her casual approach, and expectation that you'd be cool with a boyfriend. Wow. Never underestimate what we call "the fog". She is in "the fog" big-time. Think of it as a dopamine-inspired addiction, much like a drug addict experiences. (studies suggest that is EXACTLY what it is).

I do not believe a lot of what she told me

I know this POS knows by now that I know who he is

I said nothing about contacting him or his wife, but believe me his wife will have the opportunity to get acquainted with me.

I made no commitments to R or D

I am NOT at this point going to get their HR involved- yet

Excellent!!!

Do shed light onto the affair. TALK with OM's wife, but do not tell YOUR WW when you are doing it. Don't telegraph the play-call. Just execute the play. If your WW knows, she'll tell OM, and the story to OM's wife will be that you're crazy and not to listen to you. Get it?

Do tell your WW that her BFF is bad news. Needs to go. This, from my experience. A BFF who considers affairs normal is poison to the marriage. You need your WW to find a friend of the marriage. Not some self-interested-drama-seeking-twit of a BFF.

Oddly, you're in a position of control & power now. You have the power in the relationship. Use it. Set conditions. Set boundaries. Don't be afraid to go where you've not gone before (because you used to have trust).

Don't rush the R or D decision. Unlike some here, I'm not one to recommend serving the D papers immediately. Yes, that would snap her out of her fog. Or, it would push her to OM... only you know what is appropriate in your case. There are other ways to break the fog, IMHO. (like exposure to OM's wife, the OBS). ---don't you love all the acronyms?---

I always recommend a book for the WS. You may want to download it ($10) and give it to her on her iPad or whatever. "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/Mini-Books.html

HR- that is up to you. But know this truth. They cannot continue to work together. Contact needs to be broken immediately, and either he misses the upcoming road trip, or she does. What's more important? Job or marriage? Period. End of discussion. No ifs, ands, nor buts, not explanations and what-ifs. Period. Either he misses the trip next week or she does. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE FOR THE HEALTH OF YOUR MARRIAGE. No contact (NC) means no contact. Period. Friend, this is as clear as I can say it. It is accepted as inviolate wisdom here that NC is a cornerstone to the sanity of the BS (D or R...). No Contact! She stays home, or he does. And yes, she'll still have a job. Missing a monthly meeting may seem like a big deal, but it isn't. Is it worth it to save her marriage?

Your action list above is GREAT. Be strong man. We're here for you. We care. It is a club no one wants to join, but here you are. USE the wisdom and experience here. It is good stuff.

[This message edited by CanoeVA at 11:01 AM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Your wife is a cake eater. She will not change until you close the Bakery. This probably isn't her first affair.....where there is one RAT there is 20!!

You must begin exposure of her affair and set down some firm boundaries. Read the book "Boundaries"

1. She must Identify the OM and you must contact his wife.

2. Quit her job ASAP

3. Safeguard your proof and get a recorder. You will not believe who your wife is or what will happen next.

4. She must go No Contact with the POS OM

5. Begin counseling

You are in the driver seat. She cheated and you are the victim. You are responsible for 50% of the problems in the marriage but she is 100% responsible for her affair.

I don't see much chance of your marriage surviving where she continues to stab you in the back.

Good Luck Brother!