SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Right now, my priorities are

(1) do what I can do to stop this affair,. I can't stop it but I sure can make sure she has stopped it or has not.

I am sorry but you may try but it is on her to stop it. Sorry but you cannot verify everything they do, how they contact each other besides the means you know they used before DDAy. You are buying sometime but that’s all. Ask yourself if you are willing to play cop all the time from now on.

(2) get to OM wife

Very important, but IMO you should wait until your wife gets a new Job (she really needs to get one ASAP), why? Because OMW may inform HHRR and get both of them fired. Of course once your wife gets the new job you should inform HHRR as well. Om has taken away your wife and is not even thinking about losing his family, then you should take from him his job, that seems to be more important than his family.

(3) decide on R or D.

Take all the time you need, just be honest to her, don’t make any promises and look for help (IC). Take care of yourself and until things are clear do 180.

Good luck

Late to this thread but I have a different take than some here and wanted to let you know my angle.

1) I am one of those, and I always thought there were more of us but there are fewer, who feels that physical/sexual infidelity is worse than emotional. There are many reasons for this but Mr. Healed summarized much of it in a post recently when he said this;

I am sorry but the best thing thats ever happened to you got away for good when she cheated as:

You will never see her the same.

You will never trust her the same.

You will alway wonder if there was more.

You will always compare your self to OM.

You will always wonder if you are enougth.

You will always wonder if she is rememoring good moments with him when she is quiet.

You will always wonder while having sex if she thinks of him.

75% of reconciliations fail after physical infidelity.

So those are my thoughts regarding physical affairs and why they shouldn’t be undermined.

2) Her initial reaction was shit !! Saying this to you , while being honest” she is sorry for what she did, did not plan for it to happen, but that she really enjoys his company when she is away from home, and she could not understand why if it was 'just sex" that I could not just get it out of her system” is disgusting. She would be classified as an unremorseful cheater. We’ve had many stories here about people starting the “Kids out of the house affairs”. If she was away on trips and being faithful and you were home testing ‘local talent’, what would she do to you ?? The line “it’s just sex’ is cheater speak and basically tries to undervalue her adultery but let’s face it. Cheating is cheating, she’s being hypocritical and now she is addicted to it. It’s never ‘just sex’, it is the destruction of your marriage and will be hurtful to your kids as well. Based on her initial reaction, I would have shown her the door.

3) When she came into the room at 4 a.m., it was an effort to keep you as the stable one at home while continuing to conduct her affair. Cakeeating 101.

4) I am with you one xposure. I agree completely. Many here will tell you that you expose

just to end the affair. The hell with that. You expose because your wife and this POS guy

damaged your life. Why should his life go unmolested ? It shouldn’t. he played with fire,

Burn him. Again, I am one of the few here who believes exposure not only helps end the

affair but that revenge is sweet. So don’t feel bad about that. Just do it !!

4) I call bullshit on the “take your time and give 6 months to determine what to do” stuff.

You don’t deserve limbo. Why should you wait around for an additional 5 months just to

writhe in pain. Make your decision quickly and decisively. I know it's not always bad advice based on the situation (like an affair years ago that was hidden but everything is fine now type thing or an online affair that never got physical)but your situation is different.

An old boss of mine coined the phrase “You have to determine if the fucking you get is really worth the fucking you will get”. Obviously this guy and your wife forgot about this. However, don’t make it all about him. he is at fault and needs to get drilled for what he did) It would be hypocritical of you to destroy him and then give your wife the gift of reconciliation. She was an eager and willing participant of this. IMO, she deserves walking papers. She is not the same woman you married and even if you hit the ‘reset’ button and go anew with her, she’s still the person who did this to you so you are going out with someone who was recently flawed. Is that what you want ? She said this to you “She cries every night, swears she loves me and wants to be married to me, and begs me not to tell our children. Then she REFUSES to tell me exactly who this mother fucker is, and REFUSES TO commit to not staying in contact with him, and REFUSES right now to agree to not fucking him. The guy has already flown up here and she met him in a hotel here when i was out of town. “ This shows my bosses statement to be true. Further, don’t assume she got a hotel on his trip to your town. And BTW, who the hell says that she loves you and wants to stay in the marriage but gets to keep her boytoy on the side and protects him ????? That is the definition of insanity from someone who is clearly broken.

Here’s my final thought

1) This affair hasn’t ended.

2) She is trying to save the marriage while taking the affair underground

3) You need to blow up this next trip or let it happen and hire the PI and get the evidence you need and to see if she’s being truthful. Stay out of the PI’s way though after hiring him.

4) Serve her divorce papers a s a consequence for her actions as they are drawn up. Buy her out of the house.Keep your lawyer retained.

5) Do a 180, keep her out of the ebd room, no hysterical bonding

6) If and when she comes to you crying and begging you to stay with her, then you really have her attention. But based on her emboldened attitude about the affair as though she was entitled to it, I would feel that she may be broken beyond repair.

7) Proceed to divorce. Your kids are out on their own, there shouldn’t be alimony, and the baggage that is carried in the quote at the top of this post will go away much easier.

Trust me, I know it’s easy to simply say ‘dump her’ when you are the one going through this. I made the mistake of not doing that and went through another wasted year of my life and DDay #2 when I said “I’m out”. Don’t be me !! Most of my friends moved on after being cheated on, many with kids under 18 and none have regretted it. The only one who didn’t move on and is still married and still getting cheated on is my brother in law. He’s miserable.

I know many on this site have reconciled successfully and good for them. Great posters on this board. I think they are all high quality. I just don’t believe in reconciliation to the extent they do.

I will credit you with acting decisively, lawyering up, moving her stuff out of the bedroom and maintaining your cool. You are leagues above many other betrayed spouses who initially post here. I don’t blame you for not wanting to look at her. I went through the same thing. She disgusted me after DDay #1 and I never got over it.

You are right not going to a MC. Many people make this mistake of going to a MC right away. I don’t even like the concept of going to a MC at all based on the horror stories I have always read and personally experienced.

You are doing well, Timetoact. You read Walloped’s thread, read spaceghost and timetoreacts as well.

Keep strong and whether you D or R, your wife made this hedonism all about her. Now you must make this ‘all about you’. It’s not her call anymore

[This message edited by Western at 7:31 AM, January 22nd (Friday)]

1- no trip

2- call OBS with details you do have. She will believe you

3- no trip

4- the lawyer is a lawyer, not a marriage counselor. Wife leaves the job. There will be no R with them working together. It is what it is. Seen it here a million times. No R with them working together. Repeat after me: there is no hope of R if they continue working together. Period.

5- good for those two friends!!

Good luck man

I don't have a lot to contribute with all that has already been said. But

It still feels surreal that my wife basically sat down a short time ago prior to tonight and aSKED ME TO Accept her having a boyfriend. Still shaking my head on that one.

How will she climb out of having said this? It shows an unbelievable level of disrespect for you.

Western's advice is good. The statistics are tough on guys catching their WW in a PA.

The good news is that pretty much the actions you take to move to an R or a D in the immediate aftermath are just about identical. The key is clear, direct, unmistakable, unambiguous, rapid action to take control that cannot be misinterpreted by the WW. A short, very sharp shock to the system with consistent followup.

You're doing alright, timetoact. Good username.

Western has it 100% correct!

You are not being strong with her and by pausing before notifying the OM's wife it will not help you.

You MUST BE PREPARED TO LOSE THE MARRIAGE TO SAVE IT.

It is time to close the bakery.

Stop listing to your wife who is a proven cheater and liar.

You will eventually become firmer in your decision.

Good Luck Brother!

(1) do I ,as one poster told me, give her enough rope to hang herself and not try to stop the trip next week, or do I tell her she needs to find a way not to go. She can attended a different session that he will not be at and IS willing to do that. Then I know nothing though.

Stop the trip. As others have mentioned, in order to reconcile, she will ultimately need to quit her job. With her addiction to the OM, the only way she will ever get him out of her system is to cut off all contact with him, which includes changing jobs.

(2) now I have to figure out how to get to wife. I do have a few texts and emails that are pretty disgusting but they did NOT do a lot of texting or sexting. How do I get this woman to believe that I am not a lunatic.

The more evidence you have against her, the more you can hit her with. She feels shame, maybe not now, as she is still very high on that affair fog drug, but the minute she starts withdrawing from the fog back to reality and shame sets in, the more evidence you have to potentially expose her more, and show everyone her true colors, the more power you will have in getting to her... Double down into hyper-detective stealth mode, and gather as much as you can on her - screenshots, VAR stuff, PI stuff etc... The threat of exposing all the evidence in my case was enough to knock my BS out of the fog.

(3) quitting the job right now is not happening. My attorney told me that if I have any intention of possibly divorcing that that would be stupid, as would trying to get her fired . If we R, she can find another job. She has recruiters calling her all the time, but it does take some time and that certainly is not happening in a week or two.

As per #! - she needs to quit - the sooner the better...

Not a lot of sleep last night either. We both got up early and talked some more. Starting to get some more focus on what I want, but i am getting a lot of conflicting advice on how to get there. Just a bit confusing.

So let me say what I have decided

(1) My wife has been a good partner for a long long time until this shit happened. I am ready to file and do so quickly, IF there is no progress. I think there already has been some, and I firmly believe that whatever this fog everyone is referring to is lifting some because I do believe she knows i am not kidding around here. Divorce is really simple but it seems like, and i am new so just saying what it appears, that the overwhelming majority of guys here do not just bail totally within the first few weeks. If everyone telling me to get rid of her immediately has done the same, I guess i have no beef with the advice. if you have had a WW and are still there, maybe slow down a little. She will not continue this affair in any manner and have me around. Count on it.

(2) This job thing is complicated because i understand the rational about the not working together. THEY DO NOT WORK TOGETHER. They are thousands of miles away except for a few days every six weeks. Yes they can talk on company devices, but they can communicate a millions other ways that I would need to devote my entire life to if they wanted to. I have legal advice telling me if I divorce that I am nuts to have her unemployed so lets stop she needs to quit tomorrow. That is not happening.

(3) I know i need to tell the OM wife. No argument. Still have to figure out how to do that. OM already knows that I know about the affair so i have to be able to get to her in a way where he does not intercept it. I AM determined to get that done, even if it means personally going to his house when i know he is at a meeting out of town. i am working on how to do this. I went on Zillow. i know how much his house is worth, I know he has young kids and I know his wife does not work. Unless he inherited a shitload of money from someone, my financial situation dwarfs his, and right now i believe he is one worried mother fucker.

(4) My wife is willing to write and send anything I want, but i am not sure why that is necessary. She has already told him I know, and has already told him it is over ( i know i am not certain of that), and from what she says he agrees. Figuring out how to verify that is the problem and a written communication means nothing unless she follows through. I may ask her to write it just to see what she says in it and if she does not hesitate to do it. That does make some sense.

(5) There is no IC, and OK MC until i decide if i am staying or going. She did it because she wanted to, just like probably most who do, and she did not think she would get caught. i just read in an article I was reading on infidelity that 70% of men and over 50% of women in surveys admit that they would cheat if there was 100% chance they would not get caught. i believe it because of all the infidelity i have seen on the road travelling on business. if all these cheaters only did it once, very few would get caught.

(6) She is NOT going to the meeting next week. Her call. i did not have time to even think more about it and she made the call this morning changing her dates. now i have to make sure OM dickhead IS there.

(7) I have transparency now, but what does that mean????? there is no way I can play CIA 24/7 for a real long time. I can afford PI for any trip i want to, but this job or any job she does at her level in her field will involve travel overnight. I am inclined at this point to seriously consider the polygraph route. Please no lectures on it. I am aware of the shortcomings and inadmissibility in court.

This is all very fluid. She obviously is sorry to some degree because I am not getting any real pushback at this point. I am sure, since i am not stupid, that some of this is not slobbering remorse as defined by what I have read here. What WW is happy that they got caught??? So i am sure there is some of that.

There still appears to be no expressions of "love", or any communication of any of what someone called an exit affair. If this is an exit affair, she can make it successful for herself by fucking up on anything one more time.

I am not having sex with her right now, but the fact that the disgust i felt is subsiding to me is a good sign. No mind movies yet but of course I have no delved into any details of the sex.

So I still have to sort out this journey. Maybe i am not being tough enough for some, but I am getting ready to go on the offensive here to OM, my wife, her one idiot girlfriend, and myself.

I read again Walloped's threads. Not sure if I want to get into all the sex detail, but i understand why he did. his wife was playing house with the POS for months. Walloped, if you are out there, i am trying to do some of what you did to sort through this. not sure if i am up to your thoroughness, but i can try.

I am reading everything that is written to me. You are all super people to be taking your time to try to help a stranger. Thank you again.

Timetoact,

you said this and of course it's your calla nd your choice

"So let me say what I have decided

(1) My wife has been a good partner for a long long time until this shit happened. I am ready to file and do so quickly, IF there is no progress. I think there already has been some, and I firmly believe that whatever this fog everyone is referring to is lifting some because I do believe she knows i am not kidding around here. Divorce is really simple but it seems like, and i am new so just saying what it appears, that the overwhelming majority of guys here do not just bail totally within the first few weeks. If everyone telling me to get rid of her immediately has done the same, I guess i have no beef with the advice. if you have had a WW and are still there, maybe slow down a little. She will not continue this affair in any manner and have me around. Count on it. "

I think the reason why some people, yes including me, are quick to say divorce is because it's what some of us should have done upon discovery and based on what we knew as opposed to what we hoped. However, the heart takes over and keeps people in limbo which is worse than D or R.

The betrayal that happened to me isn't as bad as what happened to you but I still cut ties pretty decisively as I refused to live in the state of infidelity with someone who couldn't commit or share the same respect for me as I had for her.

I am not rooting against you and wish you the best of luck in the reconciliation you have chosen and will step aside to other threads and let those who favor that route here advise you on it. I couldn't do it but we all have different tolerances for different things here. So you will be better served by them

Again, good luck

I am new in this infidelity crisis situation by myself, am still learning a lot about it sadly. People cheat regardless their background, belief, track record, education, loving spouses / kids, and huge risks to ruin their lives and others.

You will decide which direction you want to go. However, I am giving you a woman’s prospective. Your wife’s affair is not love, and they both know. OM is 10 years younger than you? Not a big deal. They just took the opportunities to enjoy the risky sex at the luxury hotels paid by their company. You know how the business traveling can be boring and hectic sometimes, due to the weather, flight schedule, etc. Even though you give her D and the OM’s wife gives him D, they cannot continue their A, or be together. Affair has short life. Once it is exposed, it dies. The fun part was the risk, it excited them & glue together, and once it is exposed, it shows the real ugly adultery (not beautiful romance), it dies automatically. Even though they try hard to be together, it will not work. They are smart people, but made the stupid mistake. I hope this fact comforts you.

you have all the right to expose their sin. When you expose it, you do not have to have mercy. Confront the OM and contact his poor wife ASAP.

Your wife hesitated to reveal the truth all at once, and one of the reasons is OM was coworker, not because she loves him. There is no chance this OM want to settle down with the cheating woman who is 10 years senior to him & cause him to lose his spouse/kids, and wealth. Your wife is in a deep shit. She is about to be dumped by 2 men at the same time, lose her job & reputation, and marriage.

[This message edited by zero2016 at 11:26 AM, January 22nd (Friday)]

I am sorry but the best thing that has ever happened to you got away for good when she cheated as:

You will never see her the same.

You will never trust her the same.

You will always wonder if there was more.

You will always compare your self to OM.

You will always wonder if you are enough.

You will always wonder if she is remembering good moments with him when she is quiet.

You will always wonder while having sex if she thinks of him.

I really think the way this list is posted is against the spirit of this board. There is nothing wrong with saying, "this is my experience" or even "this is the way many BSs feel." But this list is consistently presented as "This is the way it is, brother. This is what lies ahead for you." That is the definition of projection and, like much projection, it just doesn't apply in many cases. The originator of this list, MrHealed, did a follow up post in which he did say that these were his experiences and not intended to be universal, but I don't see these presented like that.

Again, there is nothing wrong with this list in and of itself. I'm sure it is true for many BSs. I've given my thoughts on each to show you that we all have our own stories and experiences.

You will never see her the same.

- Yeah, I guess, but I see her differently in many ways, both positive and negative. Obviously I'm now aware she possesses an ability to deceive that I didn't about. On the other hand, before the affair I considered her pretty weak willed. I put some rather hard conditions on R and she not only met them, she exceeded them. The effort that she put into R surprised me and she has found strength she didn't know she had. In terms of looking at her with love, I still do. If she hadn't done the work, I wouldn't. Be she lives her amends every day.

You will never trust her the same.

- This one is true for sure. And it sucks. She obviously doesn't go out to bars or dance clubs anymore but she has gone out to dinner with a girlfriend a few times. When she does I can get nervous, but a lot of this is just PTSD-type feelings. Rationally, I don't think she is doing anything. She goes above and beyond in her transparency at these times to give me what I need. In the beginning it was GPS tracking, texting photos from the place, etc.

You will always wonder if there was more.

- Nah. Trust your gut. If you've (metaphorically) beaten the crap out of your WS to get the truth and done whatever it takes to ensure that is the full truth and she has shown you that she is 100% committed to the truth in words and deeds, I think you can be confident you've got it all. I am.

You will always compare your self to OM. and You will always wonder if you are enough.

This one has two answers. The first is rational: Fuck no I don't compare myself! My W's OM was a fat 22 year old little wet behind the ears turd. I find myself baffled by my wife's interest in him but I sure don't compare myself to him. I also don't worry that I'm enough. I don't know if I would feel differently if OM was more compelling a choice.

Now the not so rational side: Yes, I have feelings like this sometimes. But if I'm honest, I had these feelings prior to the A. My self esteem has never been great. My W's A sure as fuck didn't help with that, but it did spur me to get serious about IC and I'm working on these negative thoughts in a way I hadn't before.

You will always wonder if she is remembering good moments with him when she is quiet.

I doubt it. She was in the affair because he fed her ego kibbles. But he wasn't even good at that! She always wanted more from him. Can you imagine? A 40 year old woman desperate for attention from a 22 year old. She absolutely cringes at the memory of it. But let's imagine for the sake of argument that there a small handful of times that she remembers fondly. When asked, so do you miss it, do you want to go back, do you miss him? Her answer would be FUCK NO!! Both of these things can be true. I can say the same thing about exes in my past. I know it is not the same, but it is not that far off when you consider just this point.

You will always wonder while having sex if she thinks of him.

Its weird but I've never thought this. I say weird because I thought I would. But I haven't. I HAVE triggered during sex thinking about the affair. I'm 9 months out and I just did a few nights ago. That sucked. I don't know if my story is atypical, but the improvement in our sex life post A has been so extreme that triggering a handful of times doesn't seem like a huge deal. Nowadays I only trigger like that when I'm drunk (which I was that night).

ETA: This is definitely not meant as a knock on Western. I agree with many of the points of his post and most all of his 1-7 list of recommended actions. Importantly, these are presented in a style of "this is my story" and/or "this is what happened to people I know".

[This message edited by chifrudo at 11:37 AM, January 22nd (Friday)]

(7) I have transparency now, but what does that mean????? there is no way I can play CIA 24/7 for a real long time. I can afford PI for any trip i want to, but this job or any job she does at her level in her field will involve travel overnight. I am inclined at this point to seriously consider the polygraph route. Please no lectures on it. I am aware of the shortcomings and inadmissibility in court.

The real impact of setting up the polygraph is what we call the "parking lot confessions". Your WW doesn't need to know about the accuracy or the admissibility of the test just that one lie detected is enough to make you say you are going to D and it will put a LOT of pressure on her to reveal more truth BEFORE the test.

There is no chance this OM want to settle down with the cheating woman who is 10 years senior to him & cause him to lose his spouse/kids, and wealth. Your wife is in a deep shit. She is about to be dumped by 2 men at the same time, lose her job & reputation, and marriage.

This is important to think about. I'm not so confident that I can say "no chance." I've read enough stories to know that it can be tough to predict the way things go down. But I can say this is probably the most common outcome in situations similar to yours. The OM is very likely to dump your wife like a used tissue and run back to his wife. This blows away the fog like little else and your WW is left wondering how the fuck she here, staring ahead at shame, humiliation, and loneliness.

Again, I can't predict any of this for sure. But it is a common scenario.

Divorce is really simple but it seems like, and i am new so just saying what it appears, that the overwhelming majority of guys here do not just bail totally within the first few weeks.

Timetoact

If you “just bail totally” there is not much reason to post. What kind of advice would you be asking for in the “Just Found Out” section? You would post in the “Divorce/Separation” section.

An exception to this was SpaceGhost. He pulled the trigger immediately but asked why a woman who obviously loved her husband and planned to grow old with him would cheat.

SpaceGhost

http://www.w.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=552588&AP=1&HL=

[This message edited by Graywolf at 12:17 PM, January 22nd (Friday)]

i am getting a lot of conflicting advice on how to get there. Just a bit confusing.

I think that the core advice is mostly the same -- don't put up with disrespect and don't wait around too long hoping for change when it isn't happening. However, everyone has dealt with their own cheaters and have had differing experiences. Some of us were too soft. Some thought they could fix things only to either learn of more infidelity down the road or to realize that the affair was a dealbreaker. Therefore, everyone will have a different slant on how hard to push and how quickly to move. We have a saying here on SI -- take what you find helpful and leave the rest. Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt, check their own stories if you want to figure out the lens they view things through and then make your own call.

I think the one thing virtually everyone here agrees on is that you've avoided a ton of pitfalls and are holding things together nicely. You are way ahead of what most of us had to go through.

whatever this fog everyone is referring to

It's a state of mind for a wayward spouse. Basically ongoing mixed-up thinking that holding on to the affair is ok or that what they did wasn't really that bad.

it appears, that the overwhelming majority of guys here do not just bail totally within the first few weeks

Overall, I think that SI is pro reconciliation when possible. I think your position is wise -- you are ready to file the second things aren't moving in the right direction. I believe you will get plenty of input if your wife is doing things that aren't in line with reconciliation.

lets stop she needs to quit tomorrow

I totally agree. However, given that every 6 weeks there is a potential to see the OM, she needs to start considering her exit. Ongoing contact of any kind is very bad -- some say totally incompatible -- for reconciliation.

I know i need to tell the OM wife.

Keep pressing ahead.

My wife is willing to write and send anything I want, but i am not sure why that is necessary.

First, you aren't sure of what was said. It is a standard cheater's tactic to say that they broke off the affair when, in fact, they did not. Second, if something actually was said, it probably wasn't as forceful as necessary and didn't include specific language about NC. Going forward, NC is a key pillar of reconciliation that your wife needs to have zero wiggle room on.

There is no IC, and OK MC until i decide if i am staying or going.

IC for you can be beneficial regardless of what you decide. Betrayal is a major trauma -- the equivalent of being emotionally eviscerated. Once the pain starts setting in and the anger starts to flare, you may want to have this option in your back pocket.

IC and eventually MC for your wife is not for your reconciliation only.

She is NOT going to the meeting next week. Her call.

Points to her for not having to have you force her into that decision.

there is no way I can play CIA 24/7 for a real long time.

You are absolutely right. Transparency is largely a trust building exercise. If she refuses it, you know she isn't trustworthy and that she isn't a candidate for reconciliation. If she accepts it, you have some measure of being able to verify that she isn't hiding something from you. Even with transparency, some WS's still are stuck in the "fog" and spot checks of a phone have found apps for hiding communication, deleted texts, etc. You simply want to know that NC is in place and that there aren't signs that communication is being hidden.

You are doing absolutely great. Keep going!

Here is the statistics and article "How Often Do Affair Partners End up Marrying and Happy?"

https://affairadvice.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/do-affairs-end-up-in-successful-relationships-13/

Here are some sobering statistics (although I can’t vouch for the source or their veracity, I’ve seen these stats pretty similarly at a number of sites):

1. Depending on which sources I found, it’s estimated that only 1%-10% of married men who have affairs end up leaving their spouses and marrying their affair partners (I haven’t found a stat for married women). I don’t know the validity of these stats, but they feel like they are probably right.

2. Over 75% who marry partners they were in an affair with eventually divorce. (of course, this isn’t much higher than the divorce rate for any second marriage. Still, it’s sobering).

3. 80% of those who divorce during an affair regret the decision.

So putting that together, it doesn’t look so good. For every 100 people who have an affair, anywhere from 1-10 of them will marry their Affair Partner. Of those, statistics say that 75% will divorce within 5 years. So that means, MAYBE 1-3 out of 100 live “happily ever after” with their affair partner after leaving their spouse.

Chifrudo

Thanks. I appreciate your perspective. I can take the harsh comments from others. One thing that seems certain is that there is no boilerplate blueprint for success in navigation this shitstorm. Not sure how many of those points I think Western gave will turn out to be true, but list was informative.

Zero

Thank you very much. Men and women think different. That I believe. Good to hear a woman's point of view. I agree that this was no "love" affair. It was lust period from what I know so far, fueled by easy opportunity and bad decisions. Actually horrible decisions. To be honest, my wife gets hit on by younger guys all the time, but I agree OM does not want to ride off into the sunset with her. And so far, she has not given any indication that she had any interest in a new family with three little kids and a 35 year old husband. If this affair goes underground it will not be in my opinion over undying love or wanting to make any long term life together.

JDuff,

Thanks for the poly thought. I stil think it is what I am going to do, and probably more than one time. She has no clue of that yet and who knows if she will agree. If she refuses, that's the end of that story.

I have had many opportunities to cheat while on the road, and will have many more I am sure. I have not weakened but I do know how hard it is to resist. Anyone who spends a lot of time away from everything you love in hotel rooms understands what a lonely existence it is. If you are home in your own bed every night, be thankful. no excuse for infidelity . Just a fact of life.

Had I taken any of these opportunities I personally do not believe it would mean I had no love for my wife or that I would not have enjoyed the sex. It would mean I was weak and unable to maintain boundaries and am flawed in that department.

Tonight or over the week end I am going to have another long talk with my wife and I am going to get some real expectations out there for her response.

One quick thought about MC, which is meant for committed couples. If both aren't committed, one can use the MC to help manipulate the situation against the other, turning into a 2-1 power play. Seen it here many times. Just be aware.

Not to t/j and my apologies to Timetoact but I had to respond to Chifrudo's post as I fear he misunderstood mine.

OK. I posted Mr. Healed's list because I thought it was spot on and many betrayed spouses ask the same questions. I know I certainly did and based on the story posted by the OP, I thought theyw ere relevant here.

I think it was obvious that my putting it here reflected that it was MY VIEW for this thread. So I feel I took ownership of it here. After all I did say "So those are my thoughts regarding physical affairs and why they shouldn’t be undermined." after posting that list.

And BTW, this is an infidelity board so if that list didn't belong here, then what does ?

It is not against the 'spirit' of an infidelity board to post my thoughts on infidelity. That's why we are here. To give Timetoact a different perspective. He can either accept it or reject it. It's his call, not yours or mine and again, I truly wish Timetoact the best of luck. He's been through a lot and it's just beginning. He has a lot to digest here.

[This message edited by Western at 12:07 PM, January 22nd (Friday)]

It's going to take time for all this to sink in for her, you can't rush it so if you see overnight changes do NOT trust it. Honestly it will be at least 6 weeks before her brain start to rewire itself out of the affair.

In this situation your job is to move forward with a divorce (just because you file doesn't mean you have to finalize it) and her job is to stop you. The problem with telling her your requirements is that you will most likely change your requirements later. She needs (on her own) to convince you that she is worth staying with. Right now she is still mentally in the affair and doesn't appear to even regret it (maybe regret getting caught). She isn't seeing the magnitude of her actions yet.

You are doing good but I would suggest go ahead and filing anyway regardless if you R or not. You'll either be ahead of the game if you decide to D or at worse she knows you are 100% serious about leaving her if she doesn't play ball.

I have been in R for years now but I still have the D filings from when I went through my mess (they are expired so of no use).