SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're doing great.

I was afraid of losing my marriage; and I didn't act swift enough imo. I tried to R and it went ok for a bit, but after about 5 months, something was off and the A had started again. DDay 2, 9 months later. She wasn't really remorseful,

Then I acted as swiftly and firmly as you did, which i should have done in the first place, though it was down the D path.

No need to rush into D if R is possible (and that's something you'd consider) and your WW is really remorseful.

...

And candidly, all the flack you're getting is likely from members like myself that wished they acted swiftly and decisively when it happened to them).

TTA,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I think it's really considerate of you that you make an effort to do so.

I just wanted to say that I hope my posts are not interpreted by you as criticisms or attacks on how you're handling this shitstorm. I think you are doing a great job. My comments and questions are really food for thought. To give you something to think about and answer internally (not necessarily to me or SI - you don't owe us anything). Sometimes, a change in perspective helps or a question or suggestion may resonate and lead you down an important path of thought. That in turn can lead to key questions you may want to ask your wife, or it could reveal something that she isn't being honest about ( as an aside, my expectation is that at the outset, all WW's are in CYA mode and will lie. I am not a burn them at the stake guy for that. I understand it. However, the truth must come through, painful and damaging as it may be if there is to be hope for a successful R.)

Anyway, That is all I am trying to do. I hope you take it in that light.

Thanks again.

-W

"An analogy I’ve used before is a person that converts to a religion where it’s a sin to eat pork. They know that they promised not to eat pork and will be in trouble if they get caught. If they get caught they’re sorry that they disappointed and hurt their loved ones. But they are not sorry for eating pork. They grew up eating pork like everyone around them. They never will be disgusted with themselves for enjoying some bacon."

THIS^^^^^^^

Fantastic analogy Graywolf

This was one of the biggest concerns that I had in my sitch.

1). You were trying to convince your wife to not cheat on you at the beginning of the thread

2). She was actually telling you about going to meet him and fuck him after you discovered the affair.

Just read that again.

Now she ended the affair because the guy ended it(for his kids) and they are scared of losing their jobs and the shame. You won't consider D seriously because of the financial implications.

So, I would imagine you would not file for divorce if she starts cheating again ? Because the same conditions would still apply ? She is still there out of fear and shame and so are you. The motives are different but the reasons for staying in the marriage are wrong.

Imagine doing to her what she did to you. What should you feel about her to do it her ?

[This message edited by kimichi at 10:28 PM, February 1st (Monday)]

[quote]

So, I would imagine you would not file for divorce if she starts cheating again ? Because the same conditions would still apply ? She is still there out of fear and shame and so are you. The motives are different but the reasons for staying in the marriage are wrong.[/quote]

Kimchi, really glad you have decided that you have it all figured out. I guess I just went to an attorney very quickly and can file for divorce very quickly because I had nothing better to do but waste the time. And I guess I'm going to do the polygraph just for drill because I am curious .

Now I think I am going to take the advice of Confused615 and just stop trying to answer pronouncements and not suggestions or questions. For those of you who feel that I should be divorced already, I believe there are plenty of guys on here who have and are facing multiple D Days who your message might resonate with more. I am a few weeks out and like it or not I do not agree with your conclusion. And thanks for not only taking the shot at my wife but instead of offering some support impunity my character also.

Walloped

TTA,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I think it's really considerate of you that you make an effort

I just wanted to say that I hope my posts are not interpreted by you as criticisms or attacks on how you're handling this shitstorm. I think you are doing a great job. My comments and questions are really food for thought. To give you something to think about and answer internally (not necessarily to me or SI - you don't owe us anything). Sometimes, a change in perspective helps or a question or suggestion may resonate and lead you down an important path of thought. That in turn can lead to key questions you may want to ask your wife, or it could reveal something that she isn't being honest about ( as an aside, my expectation is that at the outset, all WW's are in CYA mode and will lie. I am not a burn them at the stake guy for that. I understand it. However, the truth must come through, painful and damaging as it may be if there is to be hope for a successful R.)

Anyway, That is all I am trying to do. I hope you take it in that light.

Walloped, everythin g you have written has been meant to try to help me and I am very grateful for your help and advice. That is the reason I am trying to answer everything you ask about.

Please stop defending yourself.

Really.

Ignore those that think you're not going fast enough, or doing enough.

This is your journey. Not theirs. You need to go at your own pace.

And you are doing just fine for a newly betrayed spouse.

What she said!

I'm not sure why your story has brought out some bullies. Please remember their responses are about THEIR situation and not yours.

[quote]

[/quote]

So Painful . Thank you. My experience is with bullies is they do not like getting rapped back in the mouth. I am a big boy and it isd fine, but I am going to take your advice and that of Confused and that of others and take what a want and ignore the rest.

TTA

I do not think you should jump to divorce or separation.

I also do not think you or your wife should tell your kids about her infidelity unless you decide to separate or D your wife.

It will just mess with their minds and their schooling at this time.

My oldest D is 21 and attends BU in Boston. If you need advice on Spring Break just PM me.

On a more important note I have one question for you.

Do you think of your wayward wife differently now that you realize how selfish she truly is?

Do you think your wife comprehends how selfish her decisions are and just how much damage she has done to the marriage as well as to you, her husband?

What consequences have you shown her or will show her?

One thing I want you to think about when it comes to consequences.

I have a good group of friends from college and we have stayed close since college. A few of us married girls from college. So we all have known our spouses for quite some time. We are all in our late forties/early fifties.

One day about two years ago few of us are listening to our favorite talk radio station in NYC. The topic was infidelity.

A woman calls in and tells the host she went on a "all girls" trip to Vegas. She met a guy on the trip with his boys. She disappeared on her Gf's and hooked up with this guy without any of the girls being the wiser. She did this everyday of her week in Vegas.

She told the host her husband that she did not feel bad while in Vegas because she knew she would not get caught. Her husband was home with the kids.

Even though her voice was disguised we knew it was our friends wife. I had recorded the discussion on my iPhone and sent the recording to one our other friends. He agreed the facts matched up. His wife had been on the trip as well and he spoke to her. She said there was definitely similarities and the woman on the radio was most likely her.

Well to make a long story short we sent the recording to our buddy at work. He listened to it but kept his cool.

He accessed his wife's cell phone records originating with her week in Las vegas.

It was her. He had the texts between her and the OM.

He contacted the OMW at work. It was easy to find her. He explained who he was and why he was contacting her. She got upset but he calmed her down. She confirmed the week he was in Vegas.

His wife wanted to confront him right away. He asked her not to.

Instead he asked if he flew out there would she meet with him. She said yes.

They met a few days later at his hotel. The OM's wife was expecting to have sex with him to get back at her husband but my buddy had other plans.

He told this guys wife that he still loved his wife. That he would not stoop to the level of selfishness that his wife and her husband stooped too.

They went to dinner. They each had a picture taken of each other together at dinner, drinking wine and enjoying each others company.

His wife was beautiful too.

They parted ways with a plan.

My buddy sent a few pictures of their dinner together to his wife and the OM.

This is the message he sent them:

" We know about your romp in Vegas. While we could have done the same thing with each other we respect ourselves and our families too much. You both need to never contact each other. Get tested for std's and get individual counseling to find out why you cheated. Why you are so selfish.

If you ever decide to cheat again please know we will remain in contact with each other. We will divorce your asses so fast and expose your affair to the appropriate family memebers..."

Our buddy copied a few of us on this message to his wife and the OM.

His wife blew up his phone all night. He ignored her until he arrived at home.

1. They are working on their marriage.

2. There have been no "all girls" trips since this mess.

3. Her GF's are tougher on her than our buddy is.

4. He had divorce papers drawn up, she has reviewed them. He keeps them in a folder on his desk. He said her efforts to fix her issues will be the reason he does or does not have her served.

6. His wife is working her ass off, told her parents what she did and apologized to all the girls on the trip.

The point of this message is that consequences can be shown. They can be fair without being damaging.

They will show your wife you mean business.

It also lets your wife know you do not like the selfish woman she has become and her IC will help her understand why she has become this selfish person and hopefully help her resolve "her" issues.

Keep moving forward. Keep communicating with her.

And do not hesitate to remind her that her "ten year younger stud" used her for sex, she selfishly wanted/encouraged the attention and how should you view her now".

She is certainly not the woman you married. Make her think about that message.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 12:09 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

HappyMan,

Thanks. For sharing all of that story. Very good points. I never thought about meeting OM's wife, but I could go where sh is if I wanted to.

I also agree on the consequence statement.

(1) she has done a lot of girls trips with business associates and friends. She has already cancelled one that was to happen fairly soon. I want to see if she even thinks about going anywhere for fun without me so I have not made any statements about that that could be construed as a demand. I want her not to go because she does not want to. That will tell me something.

(2) she has had two girlfriends who she had told basically stop associating with us . The ass hole girlfriend is going to be out of our lives. That is not optional.

(3) she knows there are divorce papers drawn up. I have not shown anything to her. I would rather she does not know exactly what they say right now.

I have used a few words more colorful than selfish. I also think you are right. We obviously we're not communicating effectively before this. Right now she has made herself available any time I wanted to talk.

I do not agree he used her for sex. It was mutual. I am not making him out to be some sort of super predator. This is her fault as much as his or more.

Anyway, your thought process is well received, and I am trying to show consequences without burning the house down before I know all I want to know, including if she has been truthful about not only the affair details but if it was the only time.

Lastly, thanks for the offer on Spring Break, but I know enough about it to know it will be the longest fucking week of my life. You know what I mean.

Thanks Happy Man

I do admire spaceghost for his decisiveness. However, that was more shock and awe and what some of us wish we could do.

I think the more practical thing is to do exactly what your doing.

My then eleven year old was sound asleep when we discussed things. She woke up, her bedroom is separated by 40 feet and closed doors. She heard enough to know he cheated and it has been very hard on her. We did reconcile.

If they arent around then need to blow up their world.

Timetoact... I meant to post here last night as I saw your tension level rising. There have been a few posts about ignoring others. DO IT! There is no need for your hurt and anger to be driven higher by posting here. You got this! I see it and so do others.

After reading and re-reading your thread many times I have a few conclusions I'll share.

1. You are apparently a very cool customer! You deal with stress very well and take time to think when under pressure rather than just reacting! Good for you! Keep it up!

2. I think your wife's affair started as an affair of convenience. You tell her that you love her every day I am sure. I'll bet you also compliment her endlessly... As did I with my WW. Over time I think this tends to mean less to them unless it is said in different ways... And even then starts to mean less over the years.

Your wife sounds like she is about that age where she perhaps questions if "She still has it." When Pretty Boy came at her I am sure she gushed and was so flattered that she was the one he opted for instead of another.

My wife told me during our marriage that she wanted the passion back that we had when it all was new. I remember the feeling of being SO excited when undressing her to have sex. I'd come home and she would be in a thong and one of my dress shirts. JESUS I loved that! I think men and women love the feeling of falling in love or the feeling of being the center of attention while in a relationship. Someone fawning all over them. It would appear an easy trap to fall into.

3. It sounds like you have all the answers to all the questions that you want to know... For now. Just make sure your wife knows that there WILL be others from time to time and she needs to answer without hesitation, honestly and immediately. It sounds like she has been doing this. Trickle Truth will kill any chance she has. Get the polygraph and review.

Keep up the good work! Stay strong! As I have said... YOUR strength and determination helps ME more than you'll ever know! I thank you for that! If you EVER come to VA... I want to buy you a beer!

[This message edited by MindBlown at 7:25 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

There have been quite a few times in this thread where you've taken a commentor to task for not remembering every detail of your situation, or disagreeing with you.

First, I try to answer most of the comments and recommendations. I do not understand why when I am given some pretty strident advice in a tone indicating I must be some kind of dummy and I have it all wrong that I am not allowed to push back a little and state my opinion of what was stated. And quite frankly, when you make a definitive and bold statement to someone on a very emotional issue you should have the details correct.

I do understand that everyone here has been through some form of this. That is what makes ALL of the opinions worth reading. I could just ignore what I disagree with but I am trying to be respectful in that if someone took the time to say something they deserve an answer. Just like I may not like some of the suggestions, some may not like my answers. That is OK too.

Kimchi, really glad you have decided that you have it all figured out. I guess I just went to an attorney very quickly and can file for divorce very quickly because I had nothing better to do but waste the time. And I guess I'm going to do the polygraph just for drill because I am curious .

Well, good luck.

You tell her that you love her every day I am sure. I'll bet you also compliment her endlessly... As did I with my WW. Over time I think this tends to mean less to them unless it is said in different ways... And even then starts to mean less over the years.

MindBlown

One of the saddest things I’ve read is a husband telling his WW “I told you all the time how attractive you are.” She said “I know, you have to say that because you love me.”

My wife told me during our marriage that she wanted the passion back that we had when it all was new.

MindBlown

This can only last for about two years with the same person. Ideally it’s then replaced with a deeper love and commitment.

Do a web search for: Helen Fisher Why we cheat why we love. 20 minute video

It's amazing how some people here are labeled as 'bullies' by the pro-R crowd because they speak from their own experience. Yet, even those who support Timetoact's position speak from their own experience but somehow that's right ?

Again, people turning the guns on each other here is not helpful to this forum IMO.

yes, Timetoact is going to do things his way and that's up to him as he will have to either live with the consequences of failure or succeed based on his actions. he has made some good moves IMO and some not so good moves. However, this common theme lately on JFO where people state their reservations about someone's actions and get slammed for it or piled on by a bunch of other posters IMO is poor class and threatens to turn JFO into a 'yes man' board. Kimichi made a good point and got the door slammed in her face for it.

I agree with Worndown that TTA is getting way too defensive at this point and will conclude simply by telling him what Worndown said "well, good luck".

I am just going to sit back and see how this one plays out

[This message edited by Western at 9:58 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

Timetoact, you won't believe how many times I've typed out my response only to chuck it because I'm not sure if my point will be taken well by you. I get your pain and anger. I myself take no offense to your response because I was right where your are once.

Well, I'm just gonna put it out there. I'm not telling you to R or D, or to force her to quit her job, tell the kids, go full nuclear on her. All I'm saying is go forward with your eyes "wide open". You were given clues early in your situation and I imagine she is trying to or wanting to explain it away. I'm also saying try to avoid rugsweepeing as well and don't be so willing to give her gold stars for the small actions, for example with regards to her offering a poly up front. Ive read stories here it was done as a "preemptive" move rather than a proactive attempt to help the BS. Another member pointed out you'll soon know which one once it happens. Just don't be surprised at any backtracking or a complete 180 on their own behavior when shit gets real.

Walloped said it best that she needs to own her shit in full. That's what many if us say and that is a pretty important stage for a WS to reach to begin truly working on themselves to make you feel safe and to make an earnest attempt at reconciliation.

[This message edited by Jduff at 12:39 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

He has made his decision and while people may question the decision it seems more positive that he tries to see how this one plays out.

I'd still make her boyfriend sweat it a little, because that is how I roll, but if he doesn't it's not like it's a huge issue, so I drop it in the interest of moving the thread along.

I did not read all thread and the parts I have you sound pretty angry ( understandable ) I am really sorry but I do not believe reconcile is possible in any marraige infidelity. I believe it is only a temporary fix , once that betrayal is done we just fool ourselves to make it work. I do however wish you the best of luck and I do know from experience that no matter what is said on this site whether you agree or not that you will do whatever you want because it is your life and your story.That is good. Strength to you brother

TTA

I have been here at SI for quite a while.

Some of the things that can be and have been the most helpful for me in regard to advise given here:

"

Take what you want and leave the rest."

" the advise that bothers you the most may deserve a closer look"

"

Own you shit

"

My advise, if someone advises you in a way that pisses you off, ask yourself "why".

Examine it for a bit.

Then choose to ignore it if it's not helpful.

When I first arrived here, I handled things MUCH more poorly than you.

I was told things I did not want to hear.

As time passed, it turned out SOME of those things would have helped me, had I paid attention.

I wish you the best of luck, R is possible, IF you BOTH want it.

[This message edited by devotedfool68 at 1:58 PM, February 2nd, 2016 (Tuesday)]

Not to beat a dead horse... But I felt like Timetoact does now when I first arrived. I was appalled by some of the harshness. Some people here are REALLY ANGRY I was thinking. (Like I wasn't)

But I have to give props to most of the people who posted in my thread. Devotedfool is right, or at least in my case.

I heard A LOT of uncomfortable stuff. I think it was because I didn't want to look too closely or I thought I knew better... But the fact something is said... And THEN I thought about it... That made all the difference.

Everyone here is after the same goal. To help take the pain away from someone. Sometimes things hurt MORE until they start to feel better! Just like getting a broken leg set!

Personally I feel MUCH better today as I shared my story with a few close customers I have. Just about every one said... "I have the PERFECT girl for you!" No... I'm not going to date anyone now... But it made me feel better to know that I could.

Hang tough TTA!

[This message edited by MindBlown at 7:13 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday)]