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If other man had means and was a man instead of a whining gossiper, she would be with him right now in my opinion.

But I always say any reconciliation has some degree of luck and timing. That much you do have in your favor if you try to reconcile. The other man was so far below you, and you found out and confronted when she had not yet decided to leave you no matter what. I think that would have happened if the affair continued between the toxic enablers, the other man's sweet talk, and your wife's self-absorption.

wk55hn, craig2001, Graywolf and others. I am very thankful for your tough love so to speak and guidance. I know I probably frustrate you since you have all been thru the ringer and I most likely come across as not getting it and such.

I do take what you say very seriously and know if I stepped back and looked at my situation I would think I am being an idiot. Trust me I hate that I love my wife like I do. I hate that I love her and her son as a family as I am. I know I look like a schmuck on the outside I really do.

Its what eats at me the most. That I just cant walk away at least for now. Funny thing is prior to meeting my wife I have a lot of girlfriends and dated so its not like she was the only one for me. But it was the first time I was with someone that I was like this is why I see people get married and say I will grow old with this person. I felt that with her.

Hope this explains why I am doing what I am doing. Again I am listening to all the advice and not wasting your efforts on posting me advice. I am just being dumb you could say.

I never think anyone is an idiot when being blindsided like that, and especially you have not been an idiot.

I agree with you staying and trying.

Everyone I see that reconciled had luck and timing on their favor. The other man turned out to be not very attractive, not just physically but emotionally as a man. And he doesn't have the bucks to take her on. Because I do really think he fell head over heels for your wife. Plus, you make your own luck by being in position to win. And you did that by being a real man, taking care of your business.

I see a lot of weaknesses from her, but I know she must also have some good qualities too, or else you wouldn't want to be there. You don't seem like you are staying out of weakness or being afraid of losing her.

The dim bulb thing I posted about her before is out of line, and probably not really true, but the other stuff I do see it. But she is not the worst I've ever seen and I like to believe people can change and improve themselves.

You can walk away if the time ever comes. These things don't stay the same, either she will start to get it better and understand the situation and see what is needed, or she will get sick of it and push you to get over it.

Gary

There's absolutely nothing wrong with loving your wayward wife.

Do not hate yourself.

Make her get tested for std's. Tell her that is a nonnegotiable condition to renewing sexual relations. If you decide to renew them.

Plus stop beating yourself on her "why's".

None of her reasons will make sense to you or seem to justify her to have an affair.

Though I will add that it is good she is opening up and discussing the affair with you. Don't belittle her. Just listen.

And if you can't stop getting angry at yourself if her then send get to a good IC.

She got very selfish. She took you and the marriage for granted.

Now sit down with her parents do your wife can explain to them what is going on.

This all recent got you. You are trying to figure out how yo gout for your marriage without losing your dignity or self respect.

Explain that to your wife my friend.

HM

I don't usually come to the JFO forum but your situation really hit me. My WH works in another state every other week and that's where he met his AP, a 21 yo nurse, four weeks later they were talking marriage and already screwing. I should mention that I was 5 months pregnant at the time with a planned baby that WH claimed to want.

I wish I had moved as quickly as you have, informing necessary parties so this could have been terminated sooner rather than later. Instead I tried to reconcile with a WH who was still pining after AP and broke NC weeks before our child's delivery. That made for 2 months of the most agonizing moments of my life. Last week I blew everything up by mailing a certified letter to APs parents and also informing my in-laws. While informing my in-laws was fairly useless the letter to APs parents had the desired result. The AP sent a NC text to WH and also informed me. She is quitting her job and moving two hours away back with her parents. There is serious doubt my marriage can be saved and I think that's because I let my WH not have consequences immediately. The chances of him changing now are not as likely.

You are doing a great job, Gary, keep up the good work. Your WW have regret but has not reached remorse, something necessary to reconcile. Start off by having her read the MacDonald PDF, she has to do a NC letter (with you approving before sending it) and agree to individual counseling to find out what's broken in her to use such God awful coping skills.

Gary,

i can't add any advice to what all the others have said except I may have missed it, but you have identified girlfriends who were definitely not your friends and said they have to go. you also have not addressed the friend who is acting as a go between between your wife and this OM. have you confronted your wife on that one???

Apparently, you are still ni a smallish town, with a shitload of folks who know or have some idea about what she was doing. Now if you are correct and the wife of OM is throwing him out, you now have a "free' OM who is totally free to pursue your wife while you are working your ass off. And he is geographically close enough to see her in ten minutes.

I am not advocating r or D, that is your cal;, but your wife should not be knowing or having contact with anyone who is going to keep her informed of Om's goings and comings. That m,eans she is still talking to her friends about him.

So my advice to you is to tell your wife that at some point determined by you, that she will be taking a polygraph, at which time if she fails she will be handed divorce papers.

by doing that you will accomplish a few things

(1) reinforcing that if she has any thoughts of going underground, she IS GOING TO GET CAUGHT

(2) that you are NOT trusting her as far as you can throw her, and that her actions are all you care about.

i have no comment on her finding a job, but I will tell you without boring you with my store that my wife was very involved in womens business groups that she recognized were not a good influence and she VOLUNTARILY withdrew from these and all their girls week ends.

your wife resisting withdrawing from hanging around and attending functions with a group of "friends' who know her, talk to OM, and apparently are not too upset for her that they refuse to act as go betweens, is a BAD thing.

You busting up his marriage makes you not too high up on his totem pole of most popular guys, and i would bet my ass he keeps coming after your wife indirectly or directly if for no other reason that to get back at you.

the polygraph is the only way you will know that for sure, and her willingness to do it is as important as the test itself.

I agree with everything Timetoact and WK55 said, especially WK55's 12 points.

I am glad that guy's marriage is deteriorating. he's a POS.

My question is what separates you from the other betrayed spouse ? Why she is willing to throw him out but you stay ?

Gary, you are thinking too much with your heart and not with your head. She will still be at home, Mr. Playboy there is not working, they are in close proximity, she has enabling friends who you haven't cut out yet and you allow her to continue to act in a pampered way while trying to co-exist with her and raising her kid in the house where they did the you know what.

In other words, you have set yourself up for failure again.

I would certainly like to know the following

What is your gameplan regarding

1) Getting rid of her toxic friends

2) Ensuring no contact including electronics, PI, polygraphs, making her work/job, people to keep an eye out for, timelines and accessibility etc ????

3) Getting out of limbo ? You either love her and are willing to forgive with consequences or you love her but can't do it anymore and now must divorce but your heart keeps you in limbo and she is quite frankly thinking with her head and manipulating you and you are about to be taken behind the woodshed again

I just want to know what you are doing to fix your situation other than calling yourself 'dumb' (which you aren't. you are just making the mistake of putting your heart first) and sharing thoughts with a bunch of strangers... very good and knowledgeable strangers but ones who you aren't doing a very good job taking their advice

What is your gameplan ???

wk55hn no worries that comment was not out of line, I value all opinions what people see on the outside. Thanks for saying she has some good qualities its good to be reminded about that. After my anger and sadnees gets out I do know that she does have some good things. That is what makes this all so hard.

Happyman, I got tested for STDs and had made her an appointment but canceled it when someone on here suggested stop doing everything for her. I told her that I was going and I want her to do it too. Her first response was that she was not sleeping around with a lot of men it was one person. Like that was going to make me feel better. I like you saying to tell her that sex is off the table till she gives results. That is a good way of getting my point across. Plus she has been making numerous attempts to have sex with me and so far I have rebutted each advance made.

Takotsubo thanks for coming on and giving your story. I am sorry you are going thru this too. I originally was going to tell her parents but someone in here told me that might not be a good idea and to focus on other things. I think reading what you wrote I will go back to what I felt at first and tell them too. Or do it together as some have suggested. I hope you find happiness soon that you deserve.

Timetoact, I have cut out the couple of the one women that was helping her and giving her cover during the affair. I have been doing some investigating and I have not come up with others or not concrete enough. I think some have red flags but I cant prove it yet. I am still digging when I can. Yes the town we live in is not really small but close knit with the community you could say. Between the school and sports you run into the same ones mostly for things.

Western, I don’t know what separates me from the other spouse. I gathered from my small interaction with her she suspected this from him and maybe my wife was not the only one but the one she finally got proof on. I imagine a woman working hard and supporting her husband and kids taking time away from seeing them set her over the edge and good reason.

Like I have mentioned above I have cut out the one friend and am leaning towards another. But without proof of the others its hard to cut someone out that might not have been to blame or involved in any of this. That is why I keep looking into her stuff to find something.

I have pulled her out of one of the school comittees she was in. I am going to do the same for the Little League on too. There are others down the road she is set up for that I will be making a move on.

I have put off the getting a job but I will be moving on that too. I been distracted by other things.

And I get it I do. I am in limbo. I am not making hard moves that have to be made maybe I see that. I cant explain why I am doing what I am doing. Look I know I probably am talked about when people see me knowing what happened. It stings. I know I have let my wife be entitled and easy street. I know if I step back I see who disrespected I was. The pain feels like a balloon swelling inside me when I think of him in my bed when I am working. Or reading him tell that she is a queen and it’s a shame that she doesn’t get the full attention and respect at home she deserves. Or having him tell her hes sorry hes stressed at home and that he couldn’t perform like he wanted but will make it up to her later he promises and sorry if her jaw is sore from trying. I think on that I want to pack suitcases and send her off to her parents. Then I think on how I feel about her, the times we have had, her son and the bond we have and it messes with my mind. So it impacts me to have a good gameplan. I feel like two people in two lives.

I need to just write down all I want done or need and make a checklist. Till they are all checked off than I cant move forward and should move on.

I told her that I was going and I want her to do it too. Her first response was that she was not sleeping around with a lot of men it was one person.

Tell her she that doesn't matter, how many other woman has the OM had sex with. Might open her eyes a bit.

It sounds like you may still be in denial and haven't fully accepted that she has done what she has done of her own free will.

The good news is you won't be like this forever, you'll move on to the next stage eventually.

The bad news is that tends to be anger and you'll end up taking back every good thing you have ever said about her.

Sometimes though the BS just accepts that it is what it is and rug sweeps and ends up hating themselves down the road years after the fact for basically letting them get away with it.

You know as much as anyone now about what your options are. I say give it time to settle and you'll make the right choices for yourself when the time comes.

Gary, your posts state that you are getting rid of one friend, you are taking her off the committee, etc. Is she doing it, or you, and what does she say about these things?

There are a few reasons for these things, some of which overlap:

1-Avoid temptation

2-Earn trust

3-Showing YOU are worth it

4-Triggers for you

5-Heal your pain

You can guide her, cajole her, beg her, threaten her, but ultimately if she can't see this is for a valid reason and therefore she wants to do it, I don't see how the marriage gets repaired.

It sounds like your WW still does not grasp what she has done. From what you have been saying, she only seems to do things if you ask her to. Like others said, I think you need to stop holding her hand through this process. It is either she is on board or she isn't. R takes two, and both people have to be 100% committed. I see commitment from your end. It's all in the little things. Instead of you making her quit her school obligations, she should have volunteered that on her own. Instead of setting up her own STD tests and going through with them, she waited for you to do it. Instead of actively helping you purge the toxic friends, she is letting you do it by yourself. Imagine how easy she could make that process for you. She could tell you exactly who knew what when, and you could make your decisions from there. The bottom line is you seem to be the one doing the work. What exactly is she doing to try and make you feel safe?

Gary - it is heartbreaking to read your posts. This situation is clearly eating away at you and my guess is that it will eventually consume you. I am an advocate of at least trying reconciliation; but it takes two people to do it and 100% commitment from the wayward. It is hard to see much commitment from your wayward.

At some point the responsibility for getting yourself out of this situation is on you. You have got a huge amount of very good advice. But all the great advice in the world is useless if YOU refuse to act on it.

You deserve better than what you have now. I hope you find the strength to make the hard decisions sooner than later.

Again the responses here have been great and beneficial to me. I got fed up after hearing about how I am letting this fester and her off the hook in a way. So I got home last night with my list of things I needed and wanted responses to. I am even more questioning things now after talking with her.

In a summary she feels like I am accusing her of going to cheat with others or again. Her point is that it was a one time thing (not happening once but with just one person) and that she would never do that again. She understands about the one friend needing to go but she doesn't know why I want her away from the others and not to be on anymore social groups with school or sports. She thinks that they don't have anything to blame on what she did. And taking her away on that stuff is not helping us but hurting her son her not being involved with him. When I pressed about working she said she feels bad I am working 2 jobs but she feels she is better suited being around that she will pick up the slack more. But she talked to her dad's friend and can work some hours working the front desk at a karate studio.

She said if it makes us have sex again she will make her own appointment for the STD. I said do you not see that he could have been sleeping with other women besides you? That I talked to his wife she thinks that too. She said I wont argue but I don't see how he could as it was a struggle for him and keeping an erection. I said I know I read when he couldn't perform you did your best to get him there orally. She got mad and upset.

I said why haven't you read any of the stuff I have given you? She said that she been busy and she knows that she is out of her fog that devoted to me and us that there is nothing she can read to make her think she messed up.

So that is where I am at. I read on the site all the work that others women have done and I feel like I am not going to get that. That in her mind she wont do it again so lets get back to us.

She pretty much has no remorse about sleeping with OM. Or what your feelings about it are. None. Zero. Zip.

She just wants you to get over it and move on.

I hate to say this to you, but she really is not a candidate for R. Sorry dude.

Worn Down is EAXCTLY right.

Gary, if you read the literature out there, women who TT, refuse to acknowledge their errors, and want to rug sweep are the ones most likely to do it again. And then add in breaking no contact and you can count on it happening again.

No one can tell you to R or D, but your wife has basically just told you that you have two choices

(1) suck it up , let her resume her life, have all her social activities, and hope in your smallish community she stays away from OM

(2) you file for divorce, which you can stop if her tune changes.

Ball is in your court now my friend. She has drawn the line in tghe sand, and her attitude that you will get over it and should is probably being totally reinforced by her posse of friends.

I said why haven't you read any of the stuff I have given you? She said that she been busy

Busy?? She doesn't work, she had time to screw the OM. She should be reading everything you give her, finding things to read on her own, making an appointment for IC so she can work on her brokenness, working to regain your trust, and doing everything she can to make you feel loved, safe, etc.

trustedg, that is what hurts the most. I see what you as a woman say and feel and I don't think I am getting that. If it was the other way around I feel I would be doing everything under the sun to prove I want her back and repair the damage.

I don't think she doesn't want to be together but that she thinks that it will not happen again so there doesn't need to be all this work involved.

[This message edited by Gary1995 at 1:46 PM, April 6th (Wednesday)]

I know she says she is out of the fog, but obviously she has no idea what he fog is, probably can't see it because of the fog.

She seems to be betting that you won't do anything but let it go with a token apology, and it sounds like its a very small token.

I am usually a very positive person, at least these days.. That being said, I don't see any way to wake her up other than to file for D.. maybe that will wake her up, otherwise. I see no hope of you every being happy in this mess she has created.

Ditto to what the two folks above are saying. There is no remorse here. She S "too busy" to read something you have told her is critical to your healing after cheating on you? She is "better suited" do doing what is essentially easy and fun for her rather than anything slightly hard to fix the mess she made?

This is classic rug sweeping. This is a classic "get over it already" attitude. This is who she is and has NO intention of changing.

I am an advocate of reconciling and have done so with my fww. But it only works when wayward is "all in" and dedicated to doing the mountain of hard, unpleasant work it takes to repair what they broke. Right now your wayward wants the easy fix that allows her to continue with her social activities, friends and not having to contribute financially to the household.

You deserve to be in a relationship where you are loved and respected. Your children deserve to grow up in a household with examples of parents who love and respect each other. Do you feel like you are loved and respected? Do you feel like your spouse actually cares about how this has impacted you and the family? Is this what you want your children growing up thinking is how married people are?

You are getting grudgingly given minimal efforts to do what it takes to shut you up. The longer this goes on the more it will eat you up. You can easily stop a divorce at any time if your wayward wakes up and gets a clue. If you leave things as they are now, even assuming she never cheats on you again, do you really believe you will ever be happy?

Do yourself a favor. Stop being passive. Take control of the situation.