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Gary, if it's not too personal can I ask WHY you and your WW didn't have any children of your own? I actually had children prior to marriage (2) and had 4 more with my WH. I knew upfront he wanted his own children so is wondering what the reason was you both didn't decide on having any more? I may be wrong but I thought she only brought the one son to the marriage.

Gary, if it's not too personal can I ask WHY you and your WW didn't have any children of your own? I actually had children prior to marriage (2) and had 4 more with my WH. I knew upfront he wanted his own children so is wondering what the reason was you both didn't decide on having any more? I may be wrong but I thought she only brought the one son to the marriage.

Crazytrain you can ask whatever, I feel the best way to get help is have it all out there and you ask a very valid question. You are not wrong we only have her son she had prior to us being together.

We wanted kids especially me with her and we tried like heck. There was couple miscarriages and just a hard time in general getting there. It got to the point where it was very upsetting for her and understandably so that I felt best we stop for that. I felt bad seeing her go thru that ordeal.

I go from wanting to stay with her and her son, hoping with time I can move on to a degree, that if I divorce I am going to be regretting it down the road.

"I regret divorcing my cheating ex spouse." - said noone ever.

I have heard the opposite more than a few times though...

Please call the obs and tell her. The om knows you know. He's been watching for you to communicate with his wife. He most likely intercepted that e-mail.

Please call the obs and tell her. The om knows you know. He's been watching for you to communicate with his wife. He most likely intercepted that e-mail.

Confused, I did email the wife and when I thought it was odd I didn't hear from her I did. I used a secondary email of hers. She responded and I told her that she could call me anytime to talk or need of proof I have.

Are you saying I should talk to her to know for sure it was her and she knows? Thinking he was responding on her email making me think she knows?

So came home from work and wife asked if we could go out to dinner with her parents. I said no that I was not up for it. Plus it would be at a well known place that you always run into people you know there. I feel like I would be a ornament on display.

She was like its my parents what is the problem? I just said listen I am worn down from everything last thing I want to do is be out in public like a hallmark card couple. I said if you already told your parents yes you and sean go (her son). That I am fine here.

They left. I am glad actually I could use this time to look at her ipad and laptop and see if I can get some info on her communication with her friends or whatever like people on here told me to do which is a good idea.

She texted me 20 min later with I miss you not here its not the same. Why don't you want to spend time with me we need to. Will you come to bed with me tonight please I miss you.

I just said enjoy dinner. But I will not be sleeping in there still.

Gary:

They left. I am glad actually I could use this time to look at her ipad and laptop and see if I can get some info on her communication with her friends or whatever like people on here told me to do which is a good idea.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but the Dr. Fone app is supposed to be really good at recovering deleted messages. If you have the time you may want to install it on device you are checking.

Wishing you the best.....

Gary, I need to express something to you.

I am a SAHM (I run a small business, but my "job" has been my children for the last 10 years). I am do not clean my house (housekeepers come twice a month) but I cook dinner, straighten up, take my kids to doc appts, organise camps each summer, volunteer in their classrooms, deal with all school issues, organise sports for them, do occasional crafts if they're not too messy and don't involve GLITTER, and on and on.

I am also a strong feminist if that matters here at all. When my husband comes home from work I believe he needs to do half of whatever is needed. IN HIS OFF HOURS. During the time he's at work, work is his priority and home is mine. That's a partnership. I am beyond grateful that I've been able to spend these years with my sons.

My husband and I are divorcing (non infidelity related. He's just a terrible husband. Good Dad though). We live overseas so we will divorce when we get back to the states. But I'm still extremely grateful for the years I had at home with my sons. I work to make sure that when he comes home there's a dinner (90% of the time), laundry is done, etc. It's my end of the bargain. His end is the office.

What your "wife" has done to you is beyond the pale. The fact that you're not FURIOUS scares me. She has played you hard-core. She has taken advantage in every possible way. She doesn't get it, and I'm not sure you do either. Kick her ass out and keep the kid. This whole thing is crazy. She used you up and down, and put her own son in the middle. No self-respecting woman would do that in my book.

If you don't find your backbone (if you were female we'd call it "bitch boots") and find it QUICK I fear you will just settle down into this sham of a marriage and find yourself taking care of them for years to come.

I'm furious on your behalf. She makes SAHMs like me (and SAHDads) look like deadbeats. Please wake up Gary!!!

Gary, I see a lot of you in my experience. Like you I gave a lot to my wife, wanted to be a great provider and a great dad. I worked my ass off. I always thought that one of these days she's going to see everything I do and appreciate me instead of complaining about everything.

That day never came. In fact, I got betrayed as my reward just like you were. Why? In my case, it's because my then-wife, at her very core, is an incredibly selfish person who uses people who show her kindness. And she hides her manipulations very very well. I suspect the same is true for you.

Based on what you've said, the odds of her coming around seem low. It's possible, but I would not subject myself to any more hurts (doesn't her whining about wanting you to come to bed and pretend nothing happened hurt you to your very core? If not, you're probably numbed out completely).

Look, these things follow predicable patterns. Remember DayByDay99's list of manipulations?

1) Sex

2) Offers to go out for dinner/drinks

3) Think about the kids

4) Can we at least sit together at school functions (for the kids but really for her image)

5) Can we do holidays together?

6) Burner phone was purchased

7) Won't give up enabling friends (called the support network)

8) Threats to harm herself

9) Texts in middle of night saying she was lost

10) Do not tell other BS spouse. This is a private marital matter (Uh... yeah)

11) Asking if I would consider an open marriage

I got the exact same list -- except #6. In my case, the OM got the burner phone so the number wouldn't be suspicious. Looks like you got several of these and it's still early days. So damned predicable.

Bottom line: Protect yourself. Head for the door. If she proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's ready to do the hard work, fix herself, and just as important LOVE YOU LIKE A WIFE SHOULD LOVE HER HUSBAND (as you've loved her) then you might (if you want) slow the exit down a bit. But short of this, move on. Get out.

Lastly: A fit, handy, employed 41 year old guy will do very well in the dating and relationship scene. So don't think for a moment you won't find someone who loves you back.

[This message edited by healingroad at 1:36 AM, March 31st (Thursday)]

Gary:

I wish you, I and Healingroad could sit down for a couple of beers. I think we'd all learn a lot from each other.

Gary, I see a lot of you in my experience. Like you I gave a lot to my wife, wanted to be a great provider and a great dad. I worked my ass off. I always thought that one of these days she's going to see everything I do and appreciate me instead of complaining about everything.

That day never came. In fact, I got betrayed as my reward just like you were. Why? In my case, it's because my then-wife, at her very core, is an incredibly selfish person who uses people who show her kindness. And she hides her manipulations very very well. I suspect the same is true for you.

Please read the above passage from Healingroad again. I could have written it word for word. I realized the more she complained and treated me like crap, the more I tried to do for her and the smaller I made my needs. Mind you I don't need a lot and I've always felt blessed for what I had. Even after everything that's happened, if given the chance I'm not sure I wouldn't do it all again because the end result is my three sons who I couldn't love and be more proud of. Is that crazy or what?

My WW used depression as an excuse to get me to carry 90% of the load at home while I still worked full-time, handled the finances, bought and fixed up a couple of rental properties with the intent to sell them later to pay for college and remodeled multiple rooms in the house. I since discovered she was cheating a mere 6 months after I remodeled the kitchen per her wishes - her dream kitchen as she it described on Facebook. It's heartbreaking stuff.

There is no way I can or should try to tell you what to do. No one can and there will no doubt be pain whichever path you choose. I guess what I'm saying is take your time and really think it through. Really dig and find out the extent of her activities and what she was saying about you and your marriage in email and texts to friends. Don't be shocked if you find other inappropriate behavior besides what you already know as it usually takes a while to finally cross the line into physical affairs.

From your description your wife appears to be like mine: extremely selfish, immature and entitled. At 45 years old I don't see my WW ever really changing. At least I have seen no indication she wants to do the work to do so. After she came back after 3 months wanting to save our marriage, every conversation was about her. How tough she now has it, how she might not survive financially, etc. After emotionally destroying the person you vowed to love and protect, these are the words of a very selfish person realizing the gravy train is leaving the station (and OM isn't going to leave his wife).

Forget the words, forget the texts. It's all noise and manipulation. You need to see concrete actions and real change. For change to happen there has to be recognition and I don't see how that happens without serious IC for your wife.

Stay strong and don't forget to take care of yourself and your son. If it's warm where you are go out and throw the baseball around with him after school. Never forget he knows you've been there for him and will continue to be there no matter what the future brings.

Strength and best wishes to you.

Yes, even though she e-mailed you back. Call her,just to make sure she was who you were communicating with, not her wh.

I agree with WorldTraveler. I'm SAHM. Your ww has treated you like shit, infidelity aside. You should be partners. You work outside the home, and she works in the home. She isn't fulfilling her end. I do everything. Laundry, house cleaning, cooking, etc. Dinner is on the table when he gets home. The kids have chores, of course. But my husband comes home from a hard day at work, and relaxes. And I'm fine with that. On his day off, he usually mows the yard, because he enjoys it...and he does all major repairs needed...but that's it.

Wth you're coming home and cooking dinner is beyond me.

Not all stay at home moms are lazy cheaters. I promise you.

Her family would always joke that she is a spoiled princess

So came home from work and wife asked if we could go out to dinner with her parents. I said no that I was not up for it.

She was like its my parents what is the problem?

I'm so sorry that you are finding yourself in this horrible situation.

Also, I'm sorry to say that your wife is an ungrateful excuse of a human. If she was unhappy with your work she should have taken employment herself, and that would show her how the real world operates. you sound like a caring husband, and I think all that crap she is coming up with is just the lies she tells herself to justify her actions.

Best of luck for the future, there are no easy outcomes from this, but keep reading and posting. It really helps. The SI community is amazingly supportive and wise, we are lucky to have eachother

Her family would always joke that she is a spoiled princess

My MIL called me (heartbroken and crying) a couple of weeks after I told FIL the truth. My FIL was the first person I told - that's how close we are. They are ashamed, embarrassed and confused by their daughter's behavior. I'll never forget what my MIL said on that phone call:

"You treated her like a princess."

Thanks for the responses they are helpful to read and think on. Point taken on them too. To those that are stay at home mothers trust me I don't compare and think all are like my wife. I know and see others that are great and have a tough job doing what you do.

And I cannot let myself off the hook. I gotta own up to me too and I allowed her to do what she has done or little what she does. What once was my thought I was being a good husband and making life good for my wife I see I just enabled. That is on me too.

I did some digging last night and found some correspondence with her and the group she is with. There are def two I need to cut out. One just straight up gave her an alibi and cover. Plus it seems when they do their annual girls weekend away she stepped out on her husband one night. The other didn't help her with anything but she talked to her about it. Doesn't seem the others that was talked about. Mostly gossip and school stuff.

Like her talk with the guy she cheated on with she makes it seem she is under appreciated for what they do Seems to be the theme in that group. But they send 100s of texts and emails a day back and forth with each other so go figure.

But she talks good about me plenty too but it seems she likes to play the I don't get attention to them. But judging from the email and text chain she shouldn't have been thinking that. Looks like she got the most help in the house from me, was getting the most sex (although I don't know if she was counting him which makes me sick) and support but she liked to play that card.

What once was my thought I was being a good husband and making life good for my wife I see I just enabled. That is on me too.

I have to disagree. You did not enable your wife to have an affair.

You enabled your wife to have a good home and life and be able to stay at home and not have to work.

She enabled herself to make all of the wrong choices.

I meant to add to Confused I emailed the wife this morning asking to call me for something. She did call so I confirmed she knows.

She told me she has not reached back out to me as she is getting her ducks in a row. She is not going to give him a chance shes had enough. Sounds like she is going right to divorce after her stuff is all lined up. She asked if I could send her the proof I gathered.

She did inform me that this is the first full blown affair she can confirm but she has caught him before texting another women couple years ago but that was the extent of it.

Like her talk with the guy she cheated on with she makes it seem she is under appreciated for what they do Seems to be the theme in that group. But they send 100s of texts and emails a day back and forth with each other so go figure.

What I've learned from my own experience has reinforced the saying "misery loves company" and that those with low self-esteem seeking membership in that company will adopt that misery mentality to "fit in". Gary, all that shit she says about you to the AP is really just her mirroring his attitude, mindset, behavior so that the AP "accepts" her and makes bond with her. He could be orchestrating this I'm taking a guess that your WW gets her esteem built up by others and not from what she does for herself. I'm betting that her parents were unknowing enablers by feeding her ego kibbles throughout her youth but not making her really work for things she wanted, or even be fully accountable for the wrongs she has done. Like wk55hn is pointing out for you is the lack of maturity and the destructive entitlement mindset your WW has, she won't ever get it until she actually feels REAL consequences.

One of my coworker friends divorced his WW who sounds exactly like yours. Similar situation where it was her kids from a previous relationship, he and XW did not have a child together, he did almost all the work around the house, cooking, laundry, and taking care of her kids and taking them to their activities. They were married for 5 yrs. Although she was not a SAHM, she cheated with a coworker. One of her "whys" were "we didn't spend enough time together". I know for a fact this was blatant bullshit because I recall during most of my friend's marriage to this selfish woman complaining about how he couldn't get her interested in doing ANYTHING together. Bike riding, photography, art classes, etc. His WW would "try" these activities out but then quit soon after. She even started distancing her self away from the kids, and in a way become LIKE the kids. My friend just kept getting more depressed as time went on and then Dday hit. To this day, 2yrs past his own divorce, his XW still has that same entitled mentality, most dinners are take out, microwavable or bowls of cereal and chores/maintenance around the house does not get done. Oh, she regrets cheating but never showed remorse. Never picked up the book "Not Just Friends" he left her to read as a last chance "action" to show him she is interested in "owning her shit" and really working on helping him heal.

Also, what WorldTraveler23 and confused615 pointed out about sharing the house and family duties is very important for a good marriage or relationship, for SAHM/SAHD and if both parents have to work. Don't ever be afraid to respectfully call your spouse's shit out if they aren't pulling their weight. Your WW has been taking advantage of you by seeing you as a source of income, stability, provider, protector, etc. I know the trap all too well of putting in so much to show your spouse that you love her/him through the love language of "service" but to someone like your WW, my friend's XW, MY own XW, they won't ever get it or appreciate it until your job as their care-taker, tire-changer, butt-wiper, meal-maker is vacant.

As craig2001 put it so well -

You enabled your wife to have a good home and life and be able to stay at home and not have to work.

She enabled herself to make all of the wrong choices.

That value YOU brought to your marraige is what your WW took for granted. None of it "enabled" her selfish choices. Any decent woman would appreciate what you put into a relationship and reciprocate that effort for your benefit and benefit of the family. Don't change that part, just don't let her get away any more with slacking off and "checking out" of being an adult and a parent.

Without a doubt, this by hr -

Lastly: A fit, handy, employed 41 year old guy will do very well in the dating and relationship scene. So don't think for a moment you won't find someone who loves you back.

....is so, VERY, true. It really caught me off guard just how "marketable" I was after my physical separation from my XW. I had single moms at my boys' school, cub scout packs, hockey teams suddenly become interested and real chatty with me and "concerned" for me. It was a MASSIVE ego boost. Soon after my Dday I went from thinking being an over 40 single father was the end of the road and my problems would be finding ANYONE interested in dating me. Instead, my problems were filtering out the one "normal" woman among the desperate and crazy who were trying to lay claim on me! Fast forward 3yrs past my shit storm and I'm in my new beginning, paying forward what these fine folks here contributed to help me figure out the "why's" on my own. All I can say is if I could take that ego boost and the vision of the marketability of a 40s single male and bottle it, I could save a lot of men that push-pull agony of being their wayward spouses doormat so soon after their own Dday.

But, seriously, your problem isn't being over 40. Your problem, more like a challenge to yourself, is determining if you deserve better in life and better from a spouse and figuring out if it that spouse will be your WW or another woman in your future. Hell, you may decide that getting married again isn't what you want. Regardless, you would know better if your WW is capable of doing the hard work and putting in the dedication necessary to fix her broken, help you heal, and make a better marriage with you. IMO I don't think she will because I suspect that your WW has probably been coddled all her life with her enabling parents so this may be an easy answer for you to reach. A challenge like looking at herself in the mirror, facing what she did to you AND her son (yes, the wayward betrays their kids in this as well) and OWNING IT IN FULL, then taking action to fix her broken by going to IC, and not just saying but taking action to be a better person for you, her son, and for the marraige. To help you with your triggers, she will need to be proactive in your healing. Ask any wayward here who have chosen the road to honor the gift of R. It is a SHIT TON of work with with little to no reward at the beginning of that journey.

As for her son, I know it is tough to even consider removing yourself from his life if D is inevitable. You've grown such a bond with him that you consider him as your own son. I myself wouldn't know what to do as my boys are biologically mine. I can tell you what my friend did, and that was to maintain his relationship with his XW's kids. He doesn't spend as much time with them as during the M but the time he does spend is of high quality and appreciated by her kids. They've even gone on a road trip vacation together since his D. He sort of fit this "Big Brother" role for them for guidance and advice. It's worked out well for him and the kids.

So there is no rush to do anything other than to get out of infidelity. You seem to have accomplished that much as far as you can confirm. I'm not saying cut your losses now and run, but to REALLY assess everything here but don't omit the fact that YOU deserve to be happy with someone who knows how to be happy with you, not need you to "make" her happy. Think of the kind of spouse you need in a marriage and define it. See if your WW could possibly come close to working towards being that kind of person. Put it in words that you can describe that person and tell her so that you define your expectations of her going forward along with your requirements to R. Any less than that and you are not willing to move forward with her because you deserve better from her because you know you can get better from any good woman. One of the obvious changes are her removing herself from that toxic crowd WITHOUT QUESTION, being fully transparent, doing more around the house and even getting a job of her own because it's time you quit that second job and have a chance to get some of YOUR time to enjoy, be it for your own interest or quality time with your son. The only thing that will give you some clarity as to what to do or where this will go is her actions over a period of time. This is where the 180 comes in real handy.

I'm with you on the anger. I want to R but just seem to get angrier as time goes on.

I'm trying hard to avoid being the Affair Bitch but had some sort of breakdown on our camping trip and impulsively threw a crab at my husbands head.

I immediately sought treatment and now have a therapist who is treating me for trauma. He's nothing like my husband's therapist who just wants R. He says I'm nowhere near ready for that and declared my husband abusive.